And where did you receive permission from the majority of the group buy to give said chips to prodigits7?
That was a decision YOU made, WITHOUT our consent. You said "I need them for my assembly". Then you gave them away, and didn't use them for the purpose you stated you were going to use them. How do you think you are absolved of that responsibility by giving them to someone NONE of us have ever heard of?
I believe we should deduct 30 chips from your total and redistribute it proportionally to each chip owner, and the onus should rest on you to recover them and sell them for whatever you can get for them.
How is this not fair?
Topic: [Group Buy#1] Avalon ASICs CHIPS! Using JohnK as escrow! FINISHED! - page 18. (Read 150591 times)
September 25, 2013, 06:35:00 PM
September 25, 2013, 03:18:08 PM
I did trusted him FULLY until a few days ago. I have recordings of everything. He even convinced me to have the KnCMiner refunds (over $30,000) wire to his bank account (an account of which was made for NEO ASICS according to him). Luckily I trusted my gut and had the transfer cancelled and now I am handling the refunds. He said he was helping me but I caught him with lies after lies.
If you trusted him, and sent him our chips, and he made off with them, then that's your fault for placing our chips in his hands. I'd get behind deducting 32 sample chips worth from your total. We even agreed to send 8 to BKKCoins. What ever happened to those?
Anyway. No need to explain myself.
There definitely is need to explain yourself. 32 sample chips are missing from this group buy. You lost them. You should pay for them.
These were sample chips. Not part of 10,000 chips. I have proof that prodigits7 have the sample chips.
September 25, 2013, 03:01:10 PM
Did bkk ever receive the sample chips from this group buy?
I seem to recall that the sample chips were 'stuck in customs' for months.
I seem to recall that the sample chips were 'stuck in customs' for months.
IIRC, ragingazn touted prodigits early on as not only a business partner, but friend.
How convenient that ragingazn is now blaming someone else for attempted scamming.
Please refund to the address in my sig line.
Thank you, johnk.
September 25, 2013, 02:51:44 PM
I did trusted him FULLY until a few days ago. I have recordings of everything. He even convinced me to have the KnCMiner refunds (over $30,000) wire to his bank account (an account of which was made for NEO ASICS according to him). Luckily I trusted my gut and had the transfer cancelled and now I am handling the refunds. He said he was helping me but I caught him with lies after lies.
If you trusted him, and sent him our chips, and he made off with them, then that's your fault for placing our chips in his hands. I'd get behind deducting 32 sample chips worth from your total. We even agreed to send 8 to BKKCoins. What ever happened to those?
Anyway. No need to explain myself.
There definitely is need to explain yourself. 32 sample chips are missing from this group buy. You lost them. You should pay for them.
September 25, 2013, 02:43:33 PM
I did trusted him FULLY until a few days ago. I have recordings of everything. He even convinced me to have the KnCMiner refunds (over $30,000) wire to his bank account (an account of which was made for NEO ASICS according to him). Luckily I trusted my gut and had the transfer cancelled and now I am handling the refunds. He said he was helping me but I caught him with lies after lies. Anyway. No need to explain myself. We are all just waiting for Avalon Refunds and that's that. Again I am terribly sorry for all this. I do not want my 1% fee. I do not deserve it.
September 25, 2013, 01:13:37 PM
September 25, 2013, 12:40:32 PM
I did not steal anything. Prodigits7 has the 32 sample chips. I have a recording of him saying he has it as well. I am in the same situation as everyone else right now.
You also need to be careful with prodigits7. He's not who he says he is. He claimed to have made Avalon Clones. I met up with him and he showed me a few parts but not a fully working one. I was stupid enough to believe him. I have all his lies recorded. Thank god I didn't trust him to receive the KnCMiner refunds. Who knows what he would have done. Anyway, I am refunding people from my other group buy right now.
You also need to be careful with prodigits7. He's not who he says he is. He claimed to have made Avalon Clones. I met up with him and he showed me a few parts but not a fully working one. I was stupid enough to believe him. I have all his lies recorded. Thank god I didn't trust him to receive the KnCMiner refunds. Who knows what he would have done. Anyway, I am refunding people from my other group buy right now.
Well then why the FUCK did he have "NEO-ASICS" as his avatar and why the FUCK did you let him continue to operate as your proxy when you knew there was something up and felt the need to record him? This is some serious fishy bullshit raging. I hope you understand how fucking crazy this sounds. How do you know he's not who he says he is? What did he lie about? How did you come to know that he was lying? Seriously? Why are you choosing now to release this? How long did you have this information before you decided to cue us in as this guy you don't trust paraded about trying to make deals with people using YOUR assembly business' name?
September 25, 2013, 12:35:51 PM
hey guys,
Let's make one thing clear... I do NOT have the BTC from this group buy. I never did. JohnK was the escrow and he has everything. He will be around soon, I don't know where he went. I do not have the chips from this group buy either .... that's why we are being refunded.
Let's make one thing clear... I do NOT have the BTC from this group buy. I never did. JohnK was the escrow and he has everything. He will be around soon, I don't know where he went. I do not have the chips from this group buy either .... that's why we are being refunded.
except for the sample chips... Can you pay for john k's escrow fee/ the people who took over since you kinda failed as a group buy organizer...
That's not how it works, Noitev. You are paying JohnK's escrow fee, because you are now getting the full force of his protection.
Agreed. There were two participants; Raging the group buy coordinator and Raging the chip purchaser. The group buy coordinator has already conceded that he doesn't deserve his group buy coordinator fee. But the chip purchaser shouldn't have to pay the full fee of the escrow; that was something we paid for our protection. John K is now providing us a service of coordinating the refund. Not sure why people believe Raging should pay the escrow fee TOO.
September 25, 2013, 10:57:40 AM
September 25, 2013, 10:55:46 AM
JohnK: pay him his escrow fee.
Ragin: He has already said he does not expect to receive his 1%. Leave him be. Personally, I feel like he has good intentions but is just a bit unreliable. In the end, we lucked out because the chips were under water anyways, but we were fortunately able to back out of the order.
Ragin: He has already said he does not expect to receive his 1%. Leave him be. Personally, I feel like he has good intentions but is just a bit unreliable. In the end, we lucked out because the chips were under water anyways, but we were fortunately able to back out of the order.
Again,
I would like to apologize for all this. I did not mean for all of this to happen. I had a huge bump in my life and I'm just trying slowly to get back on my feet. I am currently processing refunds in my other group buy:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=233624.new#new
Anyone know when Avalon is refunding this group buy?
September 25, 2013, 10:51:50 AM
JohnK: pay him his escrow fee.
Ragin: He has already said he does not expect to receive his 1%. Leave him be. Personally, I feel like he has good intentions but is just a bit unreliable. In the end, we lucked out because the chips were under water anyways, but we were fortunately able to back out of the order.
Ragin: He has already said he does not expect to receive his 1%. Leave him be. Personally, I feel like he has good intentions but is just a bit unreliable. In the end, we lucked out because the chips were under water anyways, but we were fortunately able to back out of the order.
September 25, 2013, 10:06:49 AM
I agree with Noitev and Wrenchmonkey. Ragin has been a scumbag during this entire affair and has caused all sorts of mayhem among numerous groupbuys. Just because some of you are relieved that this clusterfuck is almost over isn't a reason not to levy punitive fines against Ragin. JohnK should get paid via Ragin's refund. He already walked away scot-free with dev chips, I'll be damned if a bunch of you want to roll over and say it's "just" 1.5%. Scams and mismanagement will continue to happen in groupbuys if we don't start setting proper examples.
I agree as well.
You would think in his past fragile state of mind, now with him pulling out in front of an SUV and getting wacked just after his gf's surgery that he would be in full backetcase mode and be light years away from the internet again...
but money talks right?
September 25, 2013, 09:13:09 AM
I agree with Noitev and Wrenchmonkey. Ragin has been a scumbag during this entire affair and has caused all sorts of mayhem among numerous groupbuys. Just because some of you are relieved that this clusterfuck is almost over isn't a reason not to levy punitive fines against Ragin. JohnK should get paid via Ragin's refund. He already walked away scot-free with dev chips, I'll be damned if a bunch of you want to roll over and say it's "just" 1.5%. Scams and mismanagement will continue to happen in groupbuys if we don't start setting proper examples.
exactly my point. If you guys don't care, hope you don't mind giving me "just" $1000 dollars...
September 25, 2013, 08:08:31 AM
Is there an updated sheet for refunds somewhere? Or are we still gathering data? I've submitted all my purchases to redphlegm's form, but there doesn't appear to be a link to view the information...
September 25, 2013, 08:06:20 AM
I agree with Noitev and Wrenchmonkey. Ragin has been a scumbag during this entire affair and has caused all sorts of mayhem among numerous groupbuys. Just because some of you are relieved that this clusterfuck is almost over isn't a reason not to levy punitive fines against Ragin. JohnK should get paid via Ragin's refund. He already walked away scot-free with dev chips, I'll be damned if a bunch of you want to roll over and say it's "just" 1.5%. Scams and mismanagement will continue to happen in groupbuys if we don't start setting proper examples.
September 25, 2013, 07:45:05 AM
Did bkk ever receive the sample chips from this group buy?
I seem to recall that the sample chips were 'stuck in customs' for months.
I seem to recall that the sample chips were 'stuck in customs' for months.
September 25, 2013, 05:31:53 AM
I would be among the 'ayes' if a vote were cast as to whether John's fees should come out of Ragin's refund, but that's probably a logistical nightmare for Johnk.
As far as calculations go, this would be simple. We'd just subtract the entire 11 some odd btc from Raging's spreadsheet line and re-calculate everyone's refund without the % from John K.
I personally think this is wrong; I don't think it's up to us to "punish". As far as the sample chips, I remember voicing my concern about Raging deciding what to do with chips that statistically didn't belong to him, but no one except me raised any objections. I think Raging sent 8 to BKKCoins (or posted that he did), but Raging was indeed open about how he was trying to get an assembly line up and running, and was going to take 22 chips for himself, and everyone seemed cool with it at the time.
I'm not saying Raging was innocent in all this, but the sample chips were handled openly, and everyone was given an opportunity to speak up if they thought it was unfair. Here's the conversation:
...
I will send pledged chips to BKK but I will need the rest for my development over here as well.
...
I will send pledged chips to BKK but I will need the rest for my development over here as well.
...
Ahh! Giant Pics! Tiny screen!
Seriously though; all sample chips should be allocated based on percentage of the buy holding, right? What about these other 22 chips? No one weigh in? To me it seems from the spreadsheet that you personally are entitled to .686 or so chips.
Just want to make sure everything is on the up and up.
Yes but you forget I have my own project and it is a lot of work doing this group buy as well. 8 so far and I will keep the rest for development. I am only getting 1% (7.8BTC) for doing this group buy. If you guys don't think this is fair then please let me know.
ALSO!
Please fill out this new form:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1eM7xUr058AAgDkPSlAbAVYKTihKE0v2JXD8Yac8T200/viewform
The fee was pre-agreed upon, but I don't think any sample chips were allocated to you in the original thread. With my small stake it's of little consequence to me, but I feel that that is indeed not what was bargained for. If no one else cares, it's cool with me, but I think that should definitely be a community consensus, and not an assumption.
Yeah no one mentioned sample chips until recently, I'm with you on that, community consensus
if I'm happy then everyone is happy.Me happy = much faster shipping
I was the only one who said ANYTHING about it except Bicknellski, who voted 8 chips go to BKKCoins (which is mentioned in the above quote).
I hate how Raging handled this, but as far as I'm concerned he told us he wanted all 22 dev chips to start his assembly biz and no one objected, so everything was public and we all knew what he was planning to do with them.
I recall asking for my chip in a pm. When you get to the point where the chips are shipped, a lot of people wanted them to go certain places. I'll try to find it.
edit: I found your post. It looks to me a lot of people (including myself) voted for the chips to go to bkk (I later pmed him saying I wanted it personally). Not too much time or effort was used dwelling on it. The only reason no one else voted was because they didn't have enough to get 1 chip sent one place or another on their own. He also doesn't have a mining company so to say he's using it himself is untrue since he gave them to prodigits7.
As for this quote:
Yes but you forget I have my own project and it is a lot of work doing this group buy as well. 8 so far and I will keep the rest for development. I am only getting 1% (7.8BTC) for doing this group buy. If you guys don't think this is fair then please let me know.
Lets just say I don't think this is fair, which is why I've been asking where they were since they were announced and raging disappeared...
September 25, 2013, 05:19:50 AM
I would be among the 'ayes' if a vote were cast as to whether John's fees should come out of Ragin's refund, but that's probably a logistical nightmare for Johnk.
As far as calculations go, this would be simple. We'd just subtract the entire 11 some odd btc from Raging's spreadsheet line and re-calculate everyone's refund without the % from John K.
I personally think this is wrong; I don't think it's up to us to "punish". As far as the sample chips, I remember voicing my concern about Raging deciding what to do with chips that statistically didn't belong to him, but no one except me raised any objections. I think Raging sent 8 to BKKCoins (or posted that he did), but Raging was indeed open about how he was trying to get an assembly line up and running, and was going to take 22 chips for himself, and everyone seemed cool with it at the time.
I'm not saying Raging was innocent in all this, but the sample chips were handled openly, and everyone was given an opportunity to speak up if they thought it was unfair. Here's the conversation:
...
I will send pledged chips to BKK but I will need the rest for my development over here as well.
...
I will send pledged chips to BKK but I will need the rest for my development over here as well.
...
Ahh! Giant Pics! Tiny screen!
Seriously though; all sample chips should be allocated based on percentage of the buy holding, right? What about these other 22 chips? No one weigh in? To me it seems from the spreadsheet that you personally are entitled to .686 or so chips.
Just want to make sure everything is on the up and up.
Yes but you forget I have my own project and it is a lot of work doing this group buy as well. 8 so far and I will keep the rest for development. I am only getting 1% (7.8BTC) for doing this group buy. If you guys don't think this is fair then please let me know.
ALSO!
Please fill out this new form:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1eM7xUr058AAgDkPSlAbAVYKTihKE0v2JXD8Yac8T200/viewform
The fee was pre-agreed upon, but I don't think any sample chips were allocated to you in the original thread. With my small stake it's of little consequence to me, but I feel that that is indeed not what was bargained for. If no one else cares, it's cool with me, but I think that should definitely be a community consensus, and not an assumption.
Yeah no one mentioned sample chips until recently, I'm with you on that, community consensus
if I'm happy then everyone is happy.Me happy = much faster shipping
I was the only one who said ANYTHING about it except Bicknellski, who voted 8 chips go to BKKCoins (which is mentioned in the above quote).
I hate how Raging handled this, but as far as I'm concerned he told us he wanted all 22 dev chips to start his assembly biz and no one objected, so everything was public and we all knew what he was planning to do with them.
September 24, 2013, 10:27:01 PM
September 24, 2013, 05:30:52 PM
Thanks for the link. Sorry I didn't dig deeper for that. I've been away from this thread (and pretty much all the threads, save the Stumptown one) for a while. Got tired of all the back and forth filling up my inbox.
Thanks for putting that together, redphlegm. Much appreciated.
Thanks for putting that together, redphlegm. Much appreciated.
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