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Topic: Gun free zone - page 13. (Read 21968 times)

hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
December 20, 2012, 01:41:20 PM
Reduce guns in America. Gun permits should be federally controlled, to eliminate situations like Chicago.

Institute a federal gun buy back program. For every X guns bought back, one gun permit is issued to the next qualifying individual, where X is some number > 1.

Sounds like an excellent plan to get guns out of law-abiding hands.

You haven't thought it through, have you?

Criminals will just hand in all their guns, huh? They're stupid, not insane.
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
December 20, 2012, 01:38:00 PM
Reduce guns in America. Gun permits should be federally controlled, to eliminate situations like Chicago.

Institute a federal gun buy back program. For every X guns bought back, one gun permit is issued to the next qualifying individual, where X is some number > 1.

Sounds like an excellent plan to get guns out of law-abiding hands.

You haven't thought it through, have you?
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
December 20, 2012, 01:34:15 PM
The opinion of a survivor of one of these mass shootings should carry some weight, yeah?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEJFAvA-ZUE

actually quite the opposite.
how can the most biased opinion possible further a rational discussion?

Really? The opinion of some who has been the victim of one of these shootings doesn't carry any weight, and, in your opinion should be ignored because it's biased? Are you fucking crazy?
No, he's quite rational. Opinions are biased by definition, a victim is obviously predisposed for the highest bias possible.
Where a victim is most useful is when he/she is acting as a witness, not as a victim and gives facts not opinions.

So, when a rape victim says, "Man, I wish I had a gun." You tell her... what? That a gun wouldn't have helped her? Had that woman not left her weapon in her car, her father would not have died that day. Her mother would not have died that day. Are you going to try to deny that?

Reduce guns in America. Gun permits should be federally controlled, to eliminate situations like Chicago.

Institute a federal gun buy back program. For every X guns bought back, one gun permit is issued to the next qualifying individual, where X is some number > 1.

Sounds like an excellent plan to get guns out of law-abiding hands.
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
December 20, 2012, 01:27:44 PM
Reduce guns in America. Gun permits should be federally controlled, to eliminate situations like Chicago.

Institute a federal gun buy back program. For every X guns bought back, one gun permit is issued to the next qualifying individual, where X is some number > 1.
hero member
Activity: 896
Merit: 1000
December 20, 2012, 01:16:35 PM
The opinion of a survivor of one of these mass shootings should carry some weight, yeah?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEJFAvA-ZUE

actually quite the opposite.
how can the most biased opinion possible further a rational discussion?

Really? The opinion of some who has been the victim of one of these shootings doesn't carry any weight, and, in your opinion should be ignored because it's biased? Are you fucking crazy?
No, he's quite rational. Opinions are biased by definition, a victim is obviously predisposed for the highest bias possible.
Where a victim is most useful is when he/she is acting as a witness, not as a victim and gives facts not opinions.

Edit: by the way you just nicely and concisely demonstrated that you didn't understand what a rational discussion is. The fact that I think you demonstrated intelligent thinking in the past is the only reason why you are not in my ignore list, but you just came really close.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
December 20, 2012, 11:22:20 AM
The opinion of a survivor of one of these mass shootings should carry some weight, yeah?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEJFAvA-ZUE

actually quite the opposite.
how can the most biased opinion possible further a rational discussion?

Really? The opinion of some who has been the victim of one of these shootings doesn't carry any weight, and, in your opinion should be ignored because it's biased? Are you fucking crazy?
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 2267
1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k
December 20, 2012, 11:10:25 AM

in a way, you are saying that the usa is, regarding guns, fucked up beyond repair. i can agree on that.

So given that*, what is the correct and most effective response to the problems?






*I disagree with this perspective but let's not make that the issue
hero member
Activity: 991
Merit: 1011
December 20, 2012, 11:07:44 AM
Culture and history are integral to any solution, certainly.

America has an estimated 300 million guns within its borders.

If, hypothetically, all those guns were rounded up and eliminated, criminals and the mentally ill absolutely would have reduced access to guns.

However, outside that scenario, any amount of gun limiting can negatively impact lawful citizens while not materially impacting access to criminals and mentally ill.

in a way, you are saying that the usa is, regarding guns, fucked up beyond repair. i can agree on that.
hero member
Activity: 991
Merit: 1011
December 20, 2012, 11:05:49 AM
The opinion of a survivor of one of these mass shootings should carry some weight, yeah?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEJFAvA-ZUE

actually quite the opposite.
how can the most biased opinion possible further a rational discussion?

oh wait...what rational discussion?  Wink

hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
December 20, 2012, 10:11:57 AM
The opinion of a survivor of one of these mass shootings should carry some weight, yeah?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEJFAvA-ZUE
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1100
December 20, 2012, 08:49:05 AM
Culture and history are integral to any solution, certainly.

America has an estimated 300 million guns within its borders.

If, hypothetically, all those guns were rounded up and eliminated, criminals and the mentally ill absolutely would have reduced access to guns.

However, outside that scenario, any amount of gun limiting can negatively impact lawful citizens while not materially impacting access to criminals and mentally ill.

hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
December 20, 2012, 03:05:14 AM
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
December 20, 2012, 02:36:01 AM
Saw this on Google +, thought I'd share with you guys. Smiley
Quote
Depending on who is speaking, the ban on firearms in Australia was either miraculous or a disaster. To get to the truth, I sought out the Australian government's own statistics. They are available from this site:

http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/violent%20crime.html

In the first chart, we see that the number of homicides involving firearms as a total percentage of homicides has indeed gone down:

Homicides involving firearms as a percentage of total homicides:



However, this statistic was on a generally downward trend starting in 1971, and never historically ventured outside of the 20-40 incidents range anyway.

Homicide incidents in Australia, 1989-90 to 2006-07 (number):



From the page itself: "Over the past 18 years (1 July 1989 to 30 June 2007), the rate* of homicide incidents decreased from 1.9 in 1990-91 and 1992-93 to the second-lowest recorded rate, of 1.3, in 2006-07."

So yes, homicide incidents have declined since the gun ban. By a staggering .6 percent per 100,000 people.

So with firearms usage in homicides, and the rate of homicides going down, one would expect the same trend for all overall violent crime, right? Wrong.

Violent crimes from 1996 to 2007 (per 100,000 persons per year):


Yes, restricting guns reduces gun crime. That's the sort of thing even FirstAscent can grasp. Unfortunately, it does not reduce crime. In fact, the evidence seems to point in the opposite direction. Just a thought: Might it be because criminals no longer worry about their victims being armed? Perhaps the old and physically frail have no legal means to protect themselves from the large, imposing, knife-wielding punks? But I guess some people are OK with granny getting raped, robbed, and murdered. Just as long as they don't have to be afraid of a piece of metal on someone's belt.
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
December 20, 2012, 01:20:36 AM
Last five posts are rather laughable.

Oldest of the five seems to agree that there's a correlation with guns and homicides. Thank you for pointing this out.

Four: disagrees with five, and considering it's the same poster, demonstrates inconsistent thought processes.

Three: a pathetic post, somehow requiring us to buy into the idea that said countries are not free. Pathetic.

Two: classic misuse of culture as a defense for different statistics. Biggest mistake is not realizing that many making said posts are in fact the culture, not realizing it's in part their attitude which is the cause, if culture is the cause.

One: The bible for gun rights advocates, fraught with dubious facts and data that has undergone mysterious revisions upon criticism, then mysterious reversions upon further criticism.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
December 20, 2012, 01:05:11 AM
Thought it might be about time to drop this into the conversation again:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/More_guns,_less_crime
donator
Activity: 131
Merit: 100
Axios Foundation
December 20, 2012, 01:01:08 AM
There is no correlation between legal gun ownership and increased crime. However the inverse is probably true (more legal guns = decreased crime).

Inverse isn't true. There is no correlation in USA.

Other developed countries simply have less crime than USA due to a whatever reason.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
December 20, 2012, 12:56:47 AM
Japan is possibly the worst country to cherry-pick violence statistics from. Following WWII, the country was forcibly disarmed. If you want to pick a "castrated-by-the-USA" country, they would be the #1 pick. If it wasn't for the US and its "gun culture" as some put it, Japan, along with Germany, would long ago have removed ALL free men's right to bear arms, along with most other rights.

Japan and Germany are among the worst, but not the only countries of defenseless impotent men that the gun-grabbers love to cite as a model for the USA to follow.

They also use the UK and Australia/New Zealand to 'prooove' that gun grabbing is legitimate and works, forgetting that the people in those places are not free, having never fought or won a revolution and War of Independence, and are thus still serfs, peons, and subjects of the Crown.

OTOH, Americans own themselves and are not property of any Sovereign King or Queen.  Hence our concomitant right to keep and bear arms, plus its associated costs and benefits.

Japan, Germany, and the rest of our paper statelets are lucky we didn't feed them to the Chinese Dragon or Russian Bear, instead preferring to teach them about democracy, baseball, and value-added manufacturing.

We'll give the samurai their swords and the Hun his axe back when the time is right, unlike the Royalists who will never allow the peasants to be armed.
legendary
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1006
December 20, 2012, 12:35:08 AM

The Japanese attitude towards suicide is different from the Judeo-Christian attitude. Suicide can be honourable in Japanese culture.


Here's an important stat: In the USA of the 10 in 100,000 people killed yearly due to guns, 6 are suicides.

The gun homicide rate of the USA is 14th in the world, even though they are #1 in gun ownership by FAR (88 guns per 100 residents, almost double that of the next highest country). There is no correlation between legal gun ownership and increased crime. However the inverse is probably true (more legal guns = decreased crime).



legendary
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1006
December 20, 2012, 12:30:07 AM
How about all junior and seniors take classes that teach
- Gun Safety
- Gun proficiency
- The affect of shooting or killing someone
- Gun Laws

The biggest problem we have today is gun ignorance.

If you make guns illegal then only the criminals have guns!

Is that what they do in Japan to realize a murder rate of 0.3? Or their firearm related death rate of 0.07 vs. the United States firearm death rate of 10.2 per 100,000?

Japan is possibly the worst country to cherry-pick violence statistics from. Following WWII, the country was forcibly disarmed. If you want to pick a "castrated-by-the-USA" country, they would be the #1 pick. If it wasn't for the US and its "gun culture" as some put it, Japan, along with Germany, would long ago have removed ALL free men's right to bear arms, along with most other rights.



hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
December 20, 2012, 12:19:57 AM
Comparing the United States to Japan or European countries is pretty ridiculous.  The cultures and ethnic makeup between these areas are extremely different.  The history and culture of the United States more accurately reflects the areas of Latin America, with our similar histories of racism, slavery, and class warfare.
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