Topic: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s - page 309. (Read 880479 times)

Just got a new mail about a pre-shipment sale - they have serious cajones...


A money grab to help them with refunds???

Who is Mister Fister?
Where can I find more information about his previous "achievements"?

The terms say the refunds will be in the currency in which they were paid... which seems straight forward... but then they amended it later to say at the exchange rate in USD... so they will give you the initial USD purchase price in BTC.

So... while the initial wording seemed pretty clear that they would return the exact funds... they changed it when BTC went ballistic.

Where? Thanks.

@gmaxwell, yes, you are right, it's not about cojiones, it's about the risk benefit ratio. I have more to loose. HF however will fight to death.

the terms of sale early buyers got said refunds will be in the currency you paid in.

if hashfast is invalidating their own tos for this new crud in the email they are also invalidating the arbitration clause.....

so technically you could go them for Theft as well.

And all of that is contingent on them not getting the machines out by end of Tuesday... (which is looking more and more likely).

It's not a question of courage. It's a question of expected return.

A positive return from suing may seem unlikely to some, especially if you account for a non-trivial time and effort it would take to get there.

Consider:  If HashFast successfully retains the batch 1 Bitcoins the gain for them is approximately 15 million dollars (assuming 400 batch 1 units, I don't know the actual count) over being forced to refund.  This means that if spending 1.5 million dollars on defense gave them just a 10% chance of success, they'd come out ahead in spending it.

It's actually somewhat worse since they might as well spend up to the full amount fighting it, since it's probably already a fair multiple of the liquidation value of the company... it seems like that if they lose they'll have spent every cent they have on their way there, and so you'd get nothing but their intellectual property rights— which aren't worth _that_ much, as evidenced by the fact of there being quite a few other chipmakers.

You— a one or two or whatever device customer— are standing on the opposite side of that equation. If you win you're likely to get nothing because they'll have spent it all on defense, if you lose you'll lock in a >80% loss plus your legal expenses and time. At _best_ you break even, since they almost certainly couldn't afford a defense, and making batch 1 whole, and punatives.

Effectively, what you're asking for people to do is to double down on their losses for a small chance of recovery and a somewhat greater chance of making a point (and perhaps liberating an image ready design which is rapidly aging).

I think thats a lot to ask for, and I think hashfast is doing the same calculation too.  It's not that no one has any cojones, it's that HashFast has their customers by the cojones and HashFast knows it, otherwise they'd be trying to offer some olive branch at least. I assume the delay in making the statement that they were intending to renig on their original deal was because they hoped they could ship in time and avoid ever disclosing that they weren't going to make good on it, due to the resulting loss of goodwill.

I don't know how to help you, if i could, i would have been helping you all the way. If you want me to help with anything, just ask, i will do it.

What i'm gonna do tomorrow for everyone but me is to find a lawyer willed to work with the LOADS of little cases i know about that will work mostly by taking a share of the winnings. I know that it's almost impossible, i know that many tried and failed, but i don't see how else i could help. Again, if you want me to help with anything, just ask and i will. I don't have a clue about how.

Tired, gonna sleep. (if this answer is incomplete, that's the fault).

Useless trolling?  Bullshit, Cedivad.

What I have repeatedly said is that we need to organize, reaching out to others who aren't here (via the e-mail addresses we have). We need to agree on collective goals for a negotiation with Hashfast on the MPP and send some people there to negotiate.  The leverage we have is the economic and community clout of the group of customers, a website, and the threat of press releases (e.g. from the "Hashfast Customer Protection Association") and serious negative publicity for the company.

I keep saying that, and nobody says, "hey, that's a decent idea, I'd support it." Or, "I'd work on a website." Or, "I think that XXXXX would be a good person to represent us."  

No really constructive feedback, just bitching.  Or ideas that just don't work.  (I want the mining machine, it's income, and the difference in BTC in 90 days.)

Personally, I don't have the standing in the bitcoin community, or the level of economic risk that many have, to put myself forward as a major leader of such an effort (although I'd help it).

Anyway, I'll shut up now.  My sense is that Inaba and Mister Fister have won the day with their machinations.  But best of luck in your suit, Cedivad. (Seriously.)

Did Trendon Shavers promise full BTC refunds?  A judge still intervened regardless.  You all actually have a reference point to build upon if you came together for a class-action.  Contact legal firms.  Someone is willing to bite.

Since that i've always wanted to work together and help everyone in my same boat, please tell me how i failed and suggest a possible solution, instead of your useless trolling.

Thanks.

I don't think you're right, but these losers aren't going to sue, anyway.*  Nor are they going to work together.  They're just gonna bitch and moan while they get reamed up the @ss by Eduardo and company.

* Except Cedivad.

LOL. Thanks HF for my end of the day laugh.

Why the hell not?  Well, not physically occupy, but metaphorically.  

But if you pull together a significant proportion of the B1 and manybe some B2 clients, you have more than moral outrage with which to "occupy".  You have economic and community clout.

HF can determine whatever exchange rate they want. There's no way you'll win in court unless they promised you, specifically, full BTC refunds.

Occupy Hashfast 

These things are worth doing, but you guys are thinking too small.

It seems they strive to use social marketing to gather new customers. Everyone that got defrauded should make it known on Twitter/Facebook and any other platforms they use. When people check out these websites they do often click on these to see "reviews". Much more effective than bitcointalk trust system.

Big whoop.  

I'm beginning to think that Hashfast's stoopid customers deserve their fate.  Cedivad seems to be the only one with the cojones to actually sue.  

The rest of you whiners will just bend over.  Eduardo will probably like it even better if you squeal like a pig (whine... "I want my bitcoins back." ... whine) while you get it from him.

I would sue the bastards if it made any sense at all, but since my order was small and in USD, it just doesn't make sense.  And I personally know the time and effort commitments that legal action requires.

The next best thing, however, is to band together and take them on. Define success as some collectively-negotiated serious concessions from HF, or big ass national negative press.  Don't stop one order.  Stop hundreds.

Maybe we should think bigger than just bitching, or stopping one customer from ordering.

Negative ratings on bitcointalk.org. 

That'll sure show them. 

(Of course give them negative trust, but really, does that get your bitcoins back?)