Can we please stop this off-topic flame fest?
I'm personally more interested in HashFast than cypherdoc and his somewhat shady business dealings.
Topic: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s - page 556. (Read 880461 times)
Refunds may be offered without reason at the discretion of those selling out of goodwill, but that goodwill is not to be abused when it involves procuring and assembling components with the funds raised.
well it just so happens that KNC disagrees with you on your stupid allegations of abuse. they refunded me, no problem. what say you?
If a carpenter built you handmade bespoke furniture at your request with a down payment and prior to him delivering on your mutual agreement, you revoke the contract, do you honestly think he has no legal recourse??
This is getting absurd and has nothing to do with Hashfast in their thread, and you certainly shouldn't be broadcasting such practice as acceptable, so stop it. Currently you're doing them no favours.
This is getting absurd and has nothing to do with Hashfast in their thread, and you certainly shouldn't be broadcasting such practice as acceptable, so stop it. Currently you're doing them no favours.
i really think you should stop acting like a lawyer. you're sounding absurd.
a carpenter is not building $millions of USD's worth of furniture for hundreds of buyers. it's typically a one on one tx and sure, it would not be cool to cx on him after he built it.
plus, he doesn't have a full refund policy for cc's on a website like KNC.
I'm not reproaching you for scamming the credit card & the two ASIC companies, but for pointlessly bragging about your misdeed, and the inept lies & apologia that followed.
good. then we're actually making some progress here.
it's not bragging. it's an attempt to explain what i think is happening to the market in aggregate as a result of companies accepting cc's. i think it's a problem that asic companies need to be aware of and avoid if possible.
all you guys keep insisting that i started out on 7/13 with my KNC order with the intent of cancelling my order. no, absolutely not. nobody knew Hashfast even existed. i didn't know that there were Bitfury's out there selling for $8000 to be delivered in October. i even consulted with some of you as to how to interpret different performance metrics of these companies as i was still learning. it's been a surprise to me how fast and how many of these companies have come into the space. as my education evolved on this topic and as new companies arrived on the scene i've moved my orders.
step back a second. even if it was true that i was trying to manipulate the market, would only 1 measly order at each of the 2 companies really accomplish that? good gaud...
...
are ppl implying here that anyone who cancels their orders right up until the time of shipping for anything other than real personal dire circumstances is committing fraud?
are ppl implying here that anyone who cancels their orders right up until the time of shipping for anything other than real personal dire circumstances is committing fraud?
No. People are stating, directly, that what you did here:
Quote
i never intended to order that many as a whole simply b/c i was playing the Ms. Fickle game of hedging my bets across multiple companies fully intending to cancel all but one order with whom i deemed the winner in my orderbook in the end. so i artificially inflated the internal expectations at both these companies about what the demand was going to be going forward.
is dishonest at best, and bragging about it -- on a forum where honesty is integral to credibility -- is stupid. Get it now?
I Interpreted it as illegal, which is what it is. It was more a case of I would remove that if I were you, especially if you, by your own declaration are the spokesperson of a company.
why is it illegal?
i never intended to order that many as a whole simply b/c i was playing the Ms. Fickle game of hedging my bets across multiple companies fully intending to cancel all but one order with whom i deemed the winner in my orderbook in the end. so i artificially inflated the internal expectations at both these companies about what the demand was going to be going forward.
Irrespective of whether a company offers a no quibble guarantee you enter a contract of sale which for goods in the US is governed by the Uniform Cmmercial Code;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Commercial_Code
so now you're a lawyer? you throw up a wiki page as if that's some kind of proof.
amex doesn't seem to have any problem with it.
paypal and multiple cc companies don't seem to have any problem with chargebacks in general for even items that get delivered as many ppl around here have discovered even after they sold various Bitcoin related items.
No, it comes under Article 2, the 'Sales of Goods' in The Uniform Commercial Code.
"A contract of sale is a legal contract an exchange of goods, services or property to be exchanged from seller (or vendor) to buyer (or purchaser) for an agreed upon value in money (or money equivalent) paid or the promise to pay same. It is a specific type of legal contract."
Refunds may be offered without reason at the discretion of those selling out of goodwill, but that goodwill is not to be abused when it involves procuring and assembling components with the funds raised.
If a carpenter built you handmade bespoke furniture at your request with a down payment and prior to him delivering on your mutual agreement, you revoke the contract, do you honestly think he has no legal recourse??
This is getting absurd and has nothing to do with Hashfast in their thread, and you certainly shouldn't be broadcasting such practice as acceptable, so stop it. Currently you're doing them no favours.
Bargraphic
what specifically was the intent?
what specifically was the intent?
i never intended to order that many as a whole simply [/color]b/c i was playing the Ms. Fickle game of hedging my bets across multiple companies fully intending to cancel all but one order with whom i deemed the winner in my orderbook in the end. so i artificially inflated the internal expectations at both these companies about what the demand was going to be going forward."
Please explain what you were trying to say in the quoted text.
i agree that could have been worded more clearly.
i explained the evolution of my thought process and orders above. let me summarize again, just for you:
i was late ordering on July 13th for Jupiters. this put me into the October delivery batch. not ideal certainly. made plans to house them and operate them. i find out later in July that BitFury has reduced their 400GH/s boards to $8000 for October delivery. it's been recommended ad nauseum around here to "hedge your bet" across several of these companies in case one of them implodes or does a BFL. so i order some of them. only 1 order for both companies.
Hashfast comes along. i like what i read very much esp. since they're close to me. international orders worry me. i cx Jupiters and then go visit Hashfast. i like what i see and order right there on the spot. i actually wait until just a few days ago to cx my Megabig order b/c i'm still not sure about Hashfast.
certainly not an attempt to fraud anyone or maliciously hurt any company. i see this happening on a wide scale but that's just my opinion.
Please explain what you were trying to say in the quoted text.
Quote
i agree that could have been worded more clearly.
i explained the evolution of my thought process and orders above. let me summarize again, just for you:
i was late ordering on July 13th for Jupiters. this put me into the October delivery batch. not ideal certainly. made plans to house them and operate them. i find out later in July that BitFury has reduced their 400GH/s boards to $8000 for October delivery. it's been recommended ad nauseum around here to "hedge your bet" across several of these companies in case one of them implodes or does a BFL. so i order some of them. only 1 order for both companies.
Hashfast comes along. i like what i read very much esp. since they're close to me. international orders worry me. i cx Jupiters and then go visit Hashfast. i like what i see and order right there on the spot. i actually wait until just a few days ago to cx my Megabig order b/c i'm still not sure about Hashfast.
certainly not an attempt to fraud anyone or maliciously hurt any company. i see this happening on a wide scale but that's just my opinion.
Sorry, but i asked you to explain, not "ignore, contradict, and hope no one notices."
The quoted text, along with its original context, makes your meaning perfectly clear.
You describe your original intent thusly: "fully intending to cancel all but one order." I'm not reproaching you for scamming the credit card & the two ASIC companies, but for pointlessly bragging about your misdeed, and the inept lies & apologia that followed.
I Interpreted it as illegal, which is what it is. It was more a case of I would remove that if I were you, especially if you, by your own declaration are the spokesperson of a company.
why is it illegal?
i never intended to order that many as a whole simply b/c i was playing the Ms. Fickle game of hedging my bets across multiple companies fully intending to cancel all but one order with whom i deemed the winner in my orderbook in the end. so i artificially inflated the internal expectations at both these companies about what the demand was going to be going forward.
Irrespective of whether a company offers a no quibble guarantee you enter a contract of sale which for goods in the US is governed by the Uniform Cmmercial Code;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Commercial_Code
so now you're a lawyer? you throw up a wiki page as if that's some kind of proof.
amex doesn't seem to have any problem with it.
paypal and multiple cc companies don't seem to have any problem with chargebacks in general for even items that get delivered as many ppl around here have discovered even after they sold various Bitcoin related items.
Avalon offered us Batch 3 purchasers, against the terms of their stated policy, a refund option. I don't think anyone who used that option should have any ethical qualms about it.
as has KNC.
are ppl implying here that anyone who cancels their orders right up until the time of shipping for anything other than real personal dire circumstances is committing fraud?
Shut up and take my money
I Interpreted it as illegal, which is what it is. It was more a case of I would remove that if I were you, especially if you, by your own declaration are the spokesperson of a company.
why is it illegal?
i changed my mind.
I guess the question I have is...
Would it have been more ethical for Cypher to have kept the order but sold them to someone else for a profit who believed more in the products (and he had lost the faith)?
Seems effectively the same, except the company can now do that directly, with less complexity/overhead. As we have all noted the appetite for hash rate is pretty insatiable here. If someone moves up the queue... good for them.
Avalon offered us Batch 3 purchasers, against the terms of their stated policy, a refund option. I don't think anyone who used that option should have any ethical qualms about it.
Would it have been more ethical for Cypher to have kept the order but sold them to someone else for a profit who believed more in the products (and he had lost the faith)?
Seems effectively the same, except the company can now do that directly, with less complexity/overhead. As we have all noted the appetite for hash rate is pretty insatiable here. If someone moves up the queue... good for them.
Avalon offered us Batch 3 purchasers, against the terms of their stated policy, a refund option. I don't think anyone who used that option should have any ethical qualms about it.
i never intended to order that many as a whole simply [/color]b/c i was playing the Ms. Fickle game of hedging my bets across multiple companies fully intending to cancel all but one order with whom i deemed the winner in my orderbook in the end. so i artificially inflated the internal expectations at both these companies about what the demand was going to be going forward."
Please explain what you were trying to say in the quoted text.
i agree that could have been worded more clearly.
i explained the evolution of my thought process and orders above. let me summarize again, just for you:
i was late ordering on July 13th for Jupiters. this put me into the October delivery batch. not ideal certainly. made plans to house them and operate them. i find out later in July that BitFury has reduced their 400GH/s boards to $8000 for October delivery. it's been recommended ad nauseum around here to "hedge your bet" across several of these companies in case one of them implodes or does a BFL. so i order some of them. only 1 order for both companies.
Hashfast comes along. i like what i read very much esp. since they're close to me. international orders worry me. i cx Jupiters and then go visit Hashfast. i like what i see and order right there on the spot. i actually wait until just a few days ago to cx my Megabig order b/c i'm still not sure about Hashfast.
certainly not an attempt to fraud anyone or maliciously hurt any company. i see this happening on a wide scale but that's just my opinion.
Please explain what you were trying to say in the quoted text.
Quote
i agree that could have been worded more clearly.
i explained the evolution of my thought process and orders above. let me summarize again, just for you:
i was late ordering on July 13th for Jupiters. this put me into the October delivery batch. not ideal certainly. made plans to house them and operate them. i find out later in July that BitFury has reduced their 400GH/s boards to $8000 for October delivery. it's been recommended ad nauseum around here to "hedge your bet" across several of these companies in case one of them implodes or does a BFL. so i order some of them. only 1 order for both companies.
Hashfast comes along. i like what i read very much esp. since they're close to me. international orders worry me. i cx Jupiters and then go visit Hashfast. i like what i see and order right there on the spot. i actually wait until just a few days ago to cx my Megabig order b/c i'm still not sure about Hashfast.
certainly not an attempt to fraud anyone or maliciously hurt any company. i see this happening on a wide scale but that's just my opinion.
you are paid to keep sales (but they are impossible, from 4 hours)
i haven't been paid a sticking cent yet. no one will until or unless this whole project flies as a successful and honest company that delivers on time and on their word.
it's a startup. there's risk involved so don't order if you think they'll fail for some reason. i happen to think that won't happen as i've seen enough inside. and i've risked my own money too.
but that won't stop alot of ppl around here who have their own vested interests from hoping it happens. even a simple order in at KNC makes you a vested partner of their operation in a way.
I havent ordered from KNC
you said you canceled orders from KNC and bitfury and that you have ordered a lot of miners from hashfast.
can you post any evidence of that you have said ?
i think hashfast is scam becouse it earned 10/10 points in my scam checklist.
why are you pretending that you havent read my post ?
My intelligence is irrelevant here -- let's get back to your lying. Respond on topic.
i have responded in previous posts above. there was no intent to maliciously harm either KNC or Megabig. how could i with one stupid order? Bitcoinorama took what i said and interpreted it as malicious. not so in any way. anyone who reads the post i put up above can easily relate to my thought processes as this has evolved.
i happen to know this is what ppl are doing as some have shared with me the fact that they have cancelled orders at KNC to move over to HashFast. it's a fact of life. get over it.
I never interpreted it as malicious, unless you were encouraging others to do so. I Interpreted it as illegal, which is what it is. It was more a case of I would remove that if I were you, especially if you, by your own declaration are the spokesperson of a company.
This is not about KnC or Hashfast. I care about where I get the best deal, which for all intents and purposes by the way would make no sense to jump from KnC. There's greater profit to be made before November, not after...
you are paid to keep sales (but they are impossible, from 4 hours)
i haven't been paid a sticking cent yet. no one will until or unless this whole project flies as a successful and honest company that delivers on time and on their word.
it's a startup. there's risk involved so don't order if you think they'll fail for some reason. i happen to think that won't happen as i've seen enough inside. and i've risked my own money too.
but that won't stop alot of ppl around here who have their own vested interests from hoping it happens. even a simple order in at KNC makes you a vested partner of their operation in a way.
My intelligence is irrelevant here -- let's get back to your lying. Respond on topic.
i have responded in previous posts above. there was no intent to maliciously harm either KNC or Megabig. how could i with one stupid order? Bitcoinorama took what i said and interpreted it as malicious. not so in any way. anyone who reads the post i put up above can easily relate to my thought processes as this has evolved.
"i never intended to order that many as a whole simply b/c i was playing the Ms. Fickle game of hedging my bets across multiple companies fully intending to cancel all but one order with whom i deemed the winner in my orderbook in the end. so i artificially inflated the internal expectations at both these companies about what the demand was going to be going forward."
Please explain what you were trying to say in the quoted text.
Quote
i happen to know this is what ppl are doing as some have shared with me the fact that they have cancelled orders at KNC to move over to HashFast. it's a fact of life. get over it.
Yes, there are other thieves, scammers, machinators & liars out there. The competent ones do not brag about their wrongdoings in public forums. You do. That's the issue i'm drawing attention to.
what you say would be true if all those companies and the information about them existed or evolved at the same time. they don't. it's an evolution as i just described. the relative value of these companies and their products are changing as each week goes by. we, as consumers, have every right to change our minds as the markets evolve and the facts change.
Except you didn't act like a normal consumer who waits and then bases their decision after time, you went in with the full intent to defraud one or all of these companies.yes, then don't order.
in fact, you can blame me for advising them not to take cc's. like i said in my thread, i had orders of 3 Jupiter's in at KNC, and 8 H boards with BitFury. i never intended to order that many as a whole simply b/c i was playing the Ms. Fickle game of hedging my bets across multiple companies fully intending to cancel all but one order with whom i deemed the winner in my orderbook in the end. so i artificially inflated the internal expectations at both these companies about what the demand was going to be going forward.
...
You can try to paint a different picture but these are your very own words.in fact, you can blame me for advising them not to take cc's. like i said in my thread, i had orders of 3 Jupiter's in at KNC, and 8 H boards with BitFury. i never intended to order that many as a whole simply b/c i was playing the Ms. Fickle game of hedging my bets across multiple companies fully intending to cancel all but one order with whom i deemed the winner in my orderbook in the end. so i artificially inflated the internal expectations at both these companies about what the demand was going to be going forward.
...
Then to try to clear your name you start pointing fingers at bitcoinorama to push the attention to him, less integrity with each post.
if i wanted to artificially inflate the internal expectations at both those companies i would have put thru a $1M order. You have clearly stated what you wanted to do and what you perceived you have done. It's right there in red boldface. I agree your actions most likely didn't cause much damage, which only makes them petty, not justifiable.
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i clearly explained the evolution of my thinking and if you can't understand that my original intent was to actually receive those machines then heaven help you for your negativity.
Your intent was always to charge back most of your orders, denying that after explicitly stating "...cancel all but one order with whom i deemed the winner in my orderbook in the end" is lying. I'm not surprised that you lie, but by the ineptitude and artlessness of your lies.
from someone who trolls every ASIC developer thread out there.
if you don't have the ability to distinguish someone talking in the 3rd person you are as dumb as you appear.
your allegations are dumb and inept.
any comment here?
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2898990
please dont say bullshit
yep. they are having trouble handling the order flow b/c of a poorly designed cart along with Bitpay not being able to handle the flow.
i'm just as disappointed as you. they're working on it.
sure.
they have most important day.
author of topic sale is missing.
he is cashing out 260k usd now.
you are paid to keep sales (but they are impossible, from 4 hours)
they are fixing such blunder within 4 hours, they lost about half million usd due to stupid error wchich can be fixed in 20 seconds, changing one line in config.
LOL
dont lie.
give money back.
what a scam OMG
My intelligence is irrelevant here -- let's get back to your lying. Respond on topic.
i have responded in previous posts above. there was no intent to maliciously harm either KNC or Megabig. how could i with one stupid order? Bitcoinorama took what i said and interpreted it as malicious. not so in any way. anyone who reads the post i put up above can easily relate to my thought processes as this has evolved.
i happen to know this is what ppl are doing as some have shared with me the fact that they have cancelled orders at KNC to move over to HashFast. it's a fact of life. get over it.
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