Lousy exchange rate. Definitely not Fort Gox. 60.8665btc=$5,764
Yes bitpay gives a terrible exchange rate !!
Topic: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s - page 559. (Read 880461 times)
Yes bitpay gives a terrible exchange rate !!
i disagree. i think the risks are reduced for both parties. risk is in the eye of the beholder. committed customers of HashFast know the situation and will consider it not much of a risk to wait 4 mo at the end of which they can get a refund. customers jumping in and out of orders during the preorder time period increases workload and inefficiencies. i, as a customer of KNC and Megabig, was exploiting this inefficiency for my own protection/advantage. as i said before, companies get an inflated view of demand while customers are quick to pull the trigger. Avalon proved this is a workable model; at least for batch 1 & 2.
How is that possible? You said yourself you used the option to cancel as a way to reduce your risk with KnC and bitfury.
like i said in my thread, i had orders of 3 Jupiter's in at KNC, and 8 H boards with BitFury. i never intended to order that many as a whole simply b/c i was playing the Ms. Fickle game of hedging my bets across multiple companies fully intending to cancel all but one order with whom i deemed the winner in my orderbook in the end.
See. Hedging means reducing risk.
You can't say that preventing people from hedging reduces their risk. That's ridiculous.
Now if HashFast has some other plan to allow customers to hedge difficulty risk directly then of course it would be a good deal. If they said something like "We expect the difficulty to be 200m in October. If it's actually 2 billion you get 10x the order!" , that would be reasonable.
The problem is, the orders they are taking right now don't come with any such plan, despite the fact you say they've got one in the works. So it would actually be a bad idea to order now, as it may not apply to them.
HashFast has already publicly committed to about 700Th/s, enough to raise the the difficulty by 50 million alone.
Quote
committed customers of HashFast know the situation and will consider it not much of a risk to wait 4 mo at the end of which they can get a refund.
You mean the lucky few who got a tour and signed an NDA? Sure, maybe. But that's not much of a reason for anyone who hasn't signed an NDA from either buying their products or getting shares in IceDrill.
Quote
Avalon proved this is a workable model; at least for batch 1 & 2.
You're a "paid sponsor" of HashFast and you're comparing them to Bitsyncom?
When Avalon announced products there were only two competitors, and by the time B2 rolled around one was out of business and the other was several months delayed.
Given the cost, the difficulty, and the competitors on the horizon, B1 and B2 Avalon were much better deals then HashFast is today. B1 and B2 were basically guaranteed to payoff in a month or two.
Stay Away, another Avalon and Butterfly hatching their eggs.
yes, then don't order.
in fact, you can blame me for advising them not to take cc's. like i said in my thread, i had orders of 3 Jupiter's in at KNC, and 8 H boards with BitFury. i never intended to order that many as a whole simply b/c i was playing the Ms. Fickle game of hedging my bets across multiple companies fully intending to cancel all but one order with whom i deemed the winner in my orderbook in the end. so i artificially inflated the internal expectations at both these companies about what the demand was going to be going forward.
i consider myself a pretty rational actor and i knew if i was doing this that there were a great many of you doing the same thing. thus, i told HashFast not to take cc's or paypal. yes, it may decrease orders at the beginning but it will eliminate their internal volatility going into production. they will be able to plan their expenses much more precisely. HashFast doesn't want fickle customers jumping in and out of the order queue causing all sorts of headache and hassle. they want committed customers who really understand what they're doing and are willing to wait until the end of December at the latest before they request a refund.
i really think one of those companies taking cc or paypal could undergo a walletectomy by having a darkhorse company like HashFast come out with a superior chip product. yes, it may be just vaporware right now but tapeout is going to occur within a matter of days which is a significant milestone and they have additional plans in the works.
in fact, you can blame me for advising them not to take cc's. like i said in my thread, i had orders of 3 Jupiter's in at KNC, and 8 H boards with BitFury. i never intended to order that many as a whole simply b/c i was playing the Ms. Fickle game of hedging my bets across multiple companies fully intending to cancel all but one order with whom i deemed the winner in my orderbook in the end. so i artificially inflated the internal expectations at both these companies about what the demand was going to be going forward.
i consider myself a pretty rational actor and i knew if i was doing this that there were a great many of you doing the same thing. thus, i told HashFast not to take cc's or paypal. yes, it may decrease orders at the beginning but it will eliminate their internal volatility going into production. they will be able to plan their expenses much more precisely. HashFast doesn't want fickle customers jumping in and out of the order queue causing all sorts of headache and hassle. they want committed customers who really understand what they're doing and are willing to wait until the end of December at the latest before they request a refund.
i really think one of those companies taking cc or paypal could undergo a walletectomy by having a darkhorse company like HashFast come out with a superior chip product. yes, it may be just vaporware right now but tapeout is going to occur within a matter of days which is a significant milestone and they have additional plans in the works.
You're not really thinking clearly. Risk is a zero sum game. Obviously it reduces the producers risk to have a no-refunds policy.
The problem is if you reduce the risk for the producer, you increase it for the consumer. Increasing risk means you need a higher risk/reward ratio.
If you order a KnC instead of this you're essentially paying for a "put option" that actually costs nothing if you execute it. Plus, you might actually get your unit sooner, soon enough that it'll make more then the price difference anyway.
Whereas with this you're locked in.
The risk being a chip failure, production delays, as well as (most likely) insane diff.
Just out of curiosity, does HashFast have an estimate for what they think the diff will be when they ship?
if you'd read the thread, there are provisions to protect your investment. i don't want to talk too much about it b/c it's not my place. i'm going to encourage them to do so very soon.
All the "provisions" are internal, which could mean they could just ignore them, or run out of money.
i disagree. i think the risks are reduced for both parties. risk is in the eye of the beholder. committed customers of HashFast know the situation and will consider it not much of a risk to wait 4 mo at the end of which they can get a refund. customers jumping in and out of orders during the preorder time period increases workload and inefficiencies. i, as a customer of KNC and Megabig, was exploiting this inefficiency for my own protection/advantage. as i said before, companies get an inflated view of demand while customers are quick to pull the trigger. Avalon proved this is a workable model; at least for batch 1 & 2.
yes, then don't order.
in fact, you can blame me for advising them not to take cc's. like i said in my thread, i had orders of 3 Jupiter's in at KNC, and 8 H boards with BitFury. i never intended to order that many as a whole simply b/c i was playing the Ms. Fickle game of hedging my bets across multiple companies fully intending to cancel all but one order with whom i deemed the winner in my orderbook in the end. so i artificially inflated the internal expectations at both these companies about what the demand was going to be going forward.
i consider myself a pretty rational actor and i knew if i was doing this that there were a great many of you doing the same thing. thus, i told HashFast not to take cc's or paypal. yes, it may decrease orders at the beginning but it will eliminate their internal volatility going into production. they will be able to plan their expenses much more precisely. HashFast doesn't want fickle customers jumping in and out of the order queue causing all sorts of headache and hassle. they want committed customers who really understand what they're doing and are willing to wait until the end of December at the latest before they request a refund.
i really think one of those companies taking cc or paypal could undergo a walletectomy by having a darkhorse company like HashFast come out with a superior chip product. yes, it may be just vaporware right now but tapeout is going to occur within a matter of days which is a significant milestone and they have additional plans in the works.
in fact, you can blame me for advising them not to take cc's. like i said in my thread, i had orders of 3 Jupiter's in at KNC, and 8 H boards with BitFury. i never intended to order that many as a whole simply b/c i was playing the Ms. Fickle game of hedging my bets across multiple companies fully intending to cancel all but one order with whom i deemed the winner in my orderbook in the end. so i artificially inflated the internal expectations at both these companies about what the demand was going to be going forward.
i consider myself a pretty rational actor and i knew if i was doing this that there were a great many of you doing the same thing. thus, i told HashFast not to take cc's or paypal. yes, it may decrease orders at the beginning but it will eliminate their internal volatility going into production. they will be able to plan their expenses much more precisely. HashFast doesn't want fickle customers jumping in and out of the order queue causing all sorts of headache and hassle. they want committed customers who really understand what they're doing and are willing to wait until the end of December at the latest before they request a refund.
i really think one of those companies taking cc or paypal could undergo a walletectomy by having a darkhorse company like HashFast come out with a superior chip product. yes, it may be just vaporware right now but tapeout is going to occur within a matter of days which is a significant milestone and they have additional plans in the works.
You're not really thinking clearly. Risk is a zero sum game. Obviously it reduces the producers risk to have a no-refunds policy.
The problem is if you reduce the risk for the producer, you increase it for the consumer. Increasing risk means you need a higher risk/reward ratio.
If you order a KnC instead of this you're essentially paying for a "put option" that actually costs nothing if you execute it. Plus, you might actually get your unit sooner, soon enough that it'll make more then the price difference anyway.
Whereas with this you're locked in.
The risk being a chip failure, production delays, as well as (most likely) insane diff.
Just out of curiosity, does HashFast have an estimate for what they think the diff will be when they ship?
if you'd read the thread, there are provisions to protect your investment. i don't want to talk too much about it b/c it's not my place. i'm going to encourage them to do so very soon.
All the "provisions" are internal, which could mean they could just ignore them, or run out of money.
Can you say PETAHASH?
they want committed customers who really understand what they're doing and are willing to wait until the end of December at the latest before they request a refund.
This is what you advised them? A screwed customer is a committed customer? Thanks pal!
I really hope that planned delays are not part of the HashFast gameplan. A 2 month delay has a huge impact on ROI.
if you'd read the thread, there are provisions to protect your investment. i don't want to talk too much about it b/c it's not my place. i'm going to encourage them to do so very soon.
they want committed customers who really understand what they're doing and are willing to wait until the end of December at the latest before they request a refund.
This is what you advised them? A screwed customer is a committed customer? Thanks pal!
I really hope that planned delays are not part of the HashFast gameplan. A 2 month delay has a huge impact on ROI.
yes, then don't order.
in fact, you can blame me for advising them not to take cc's. like i said in my thread, i had orders of 3 Jupiter's in at KNC, and 8 H boards with BitFury. i never intended to order that many as a whole simply b/c i was playing the Ms. Fickle game of hedging my bets across multiple companies fully intending to cancel all but one order with whom i deemed the winner in my orderbook in the end. so i artificially inflated the internal expectations at both these companies about what the demand was going to be going forward.
i consider myself a pretty rational actor and i knew if i was doing this that there were a great many of you doing the same thing. thus, i told HashFast not to take cc's or paypal. yes, it may decrease orders at the beginning but it will eliminate their internal volatility going into production. they will be able to plan their expenses much more precisely. HashFast doesn't want fickle customers jumping in and out of the order queue causing all sorts of headache and hassle. they want committed customers who really understand what they're doing and are willing to wait until the end of December at the latest before they request a refund.
i really think one of those companies taking cc or paypal could undergo a walletectomy by having a darkhorse company like HashFast come out with a superior chip product. yes, it may be just vaporware right now but tapeout is going to occur within a matter of days which is a significant milestone and they have additional plans in the works.
in fact, you can blame me for advising them not to take cc's. like i said in my thread, i had orders of 3 Jupiter's in at KNC, and 8 H boards with BitFury. i never intended to order that many as a whole simply b/c i was playing the Ms. Fickle game of hedging my bets across multiple companies fully intending to cancel all but one order with whom i deemed the winner in my orderbook in the end. so i artificially inflated the internal expectations at both these companies about what the demand was going to be going forward.
i consider myself a pretty rational actor and i knew if i was doing this that there were a great many of you doing the same thing. thus, i told HashFast not to take cc's or paypal. yes, it may decrease orders at the beginning but it will eliminate their internal volatility going into production. they will be able to plan their expenses much more precisely. HashFast doesn't want fickle customers jumping in and out of the order queue causing all sorts of headache and hassle. they want committed customers who really understand what they're doing and are willing to wait until the end of December at the latest before they request a refund.
i really think one of those companies taking cc or paypal could undergo a walletectomy by having a darkhorse company like HashFast come out with a superior chip product. yes, it may be just vaporware right now but tapeout is going to occur within a matter of days which is a significant milestone and they have additional plans in the works.
From the ToS:
So!
- How may I get a guaranteed delivery date while ordering, please ?
- In case you fail to deliver, will you cover for the post fees needed to send you a written notice ?
- In case I cancel my order, can I hope for a refund ?
- In case I cancel my order after you failed to deliver at a guaranteed date and you don't agree to send a written consent to acknowledge that cancellation, what happens ?
Quote
Except for delivery dates explicitly guaranteed in the order confirmation, delivery dates communicated or acknowledged by Hashfast are approximate only
Quote
Buyer will give Hashfast written notice of failure to deliver and thirty (30) days within which to cure, unless the order confirmation explicitly guarantees a delivery date
Quote
Buyer’s sole and exclusive remedy after such cure period or guaranteed delivery date is to cancel 
the affected and undelivered portions of the order.
the affected and undelivered portions of the order.Quote
No order, Agreement or any part thereof may be rescheduled or cancelled without Hashfast’s prior written consent.
So!
- How may I get a guaranteed delivery date while ordering, please ?
- In case you fail to deliver, will you cover for the post fees needed to send you a written notice ?
- In case I cancel my order, can I hope for a refund ?
- In case I cancel my order after you failed to deliver at a guaranteed date and you don't agree to send a written consent to acknowledge that cancellation, what happens ?
Exactly. What's that about getting written consent from Hashfast to cancel an order?? Basically it's a nice way to say "No. I don't issue refunds (but perhaps only if I feel like but who knows maybe or maybe not)" More than discretionary: completely uncertain, random and obscure.
So until they are actually upfront, transparent and serious enough on those fundamental policies my money is glued to my pocket.
Stay away and Stay clear another Avalon and Butterfly in the making !! They can delivers as late as they want ... You have ZERO "0" protection !!
I got two words... "ah man!"
From the ToS:
So!
- How may I get a guaranteed delivery date while ordering, please ?
- In case you fail to deliver, will you cover for the post fees needed to send you a written notice ?
- In case I cancel my order, can I hope for a refund ?
- In case I cancel my order after you failed to deliver at a guaranteed date and you don't agree to send a written consent to acknowledge that cancellation, what happens ?
Quote
Except for delivery dates explicitly guaranteed in the order confirmation, delivery dates communicated or acknowledged by Hashfast are approximate only
Quote
Buyer will give Hashfast written notice of failure to deliver and thirty (30) days within which to cure, unless the order confirmation explicitly guarantees a delivery date
Quote
Buyer’s sole and exclusive remedy after such cure period or guaranteed delivery date is to cancel the affected and undelivered portions of the order.
the affected and undelivered portions of the order.Quote
No order, Agreement or any part thereof may be rescheduled or cancelled without Hashfast’s prior written consent.
So!
- How may I get a guaranteed delivery date while ordering, please ?
- In case you fail to deliver, will you cover for the post fees needed to send you a written notice ?
- In case I cancel my order, can I hope for a refund ?
- In case I cancel my order after you failed to deliver at a guaranteed date and you don't agree to send a written consent to acknowledge that cancellation, what happens ?
Exactly. What's that about getting written consent from Hashfast to cancel an order?? Basically it's a nice way to say "No. I don't issue refunds (but perhaps only if I feel like but who knows maybe or maybe not)" More than discretionary: completely uncertain, random and obscure.
So until they are actually upfront, transparent and serious enough on those fundamental policies my money is glued to my pocket.
Stay away and Stay clear another Avalon and Butterfly in the making !! They can delivers as late as they want ... You have ZERO "0" protection !!
whoever read the policy and still decide to order deserve to lose money.
Hello everyone, I am Kengdie.
This thread is good. This post makes me remember the Butterfly Labs in the June of last year. Animal spirit. History is repeating itself. BFL made a FPGA, why cannot ASIC. Uniquify made chips, why cannot this chips.
Good luck.
This thread is good. This post makes me remember the Butterfly Labs in the June of last year. Animal spirit. History is repeating itself. BFL made a FPGA, why cannot ASIC. Uniquify made chips, why cannot this chips.
Good luck.
That's how Chinese conquer the world
Welcome to the family of Kengdie!
Clarification needed. The policy seems fishy to me.
- How may I get a guaranteed delivery date while ordering, please ?
- In case you fail to deliver, will you cover for the post fees needed to send you a written notice ?
- In case I cancel my order, can I hope for a refund ?
- In case I cancel my order after you failed to deliver at a guaranteed date and you don't agree to send a written consent to acknowledge that cancellation, what happens ?
- In case you fail to deliver, will you cover for the post fees needed to send you a written notice ?
- In case I cancel my order, can I hope for a refund ?
- In case I cancel my order after you failed to deliver at a guaranteed date and you don't agree to send a written consent to acknowledge that cancellation, what happens ?
I finally had a reply to those.
Kouye, you should ask John Skrodenis your questions. i can only go so far as i am not a rep or employee.
I did, twice, already. Also asked Simon. You're the only one who answered, so far, thank you!
if you read my comments above i think those cover the gist of what you should really be concerned about. i've been told up, down, left and right that this is what they will promise. i've even seen it written out in internal docs. but whether or not they'll have the money to do a refund if the end of year rolls around is the risk you take.
i've taken the risk. i've bought 8 units myself.
Thanks, cypherdoc. I'm not sure things cleared up, but replying was a good start, at least.
From the ToS:
So!
- How may I get a guaranteed delivery date while ordering, please ?
- In case you fail to deliver, will you cover for the post fees needed to send you a written notice ?
- In case I cancel my order, can I hope for a refund ?
- In case I cancel my order after you failed to deliver at a guaranteed date and you don't agree to send a written consent to acknowledge that cancellation, what happens ?
Quote
Except for delivery dates explicitly guaranteed in the order confirmation, delivery dates communicated or acknowledged by Hashfast are approximate only
Quote
Buyer will give Hashfast written notice of failure to deliver and thirty (30) days within which to cure, unless the order confirmation explicitly guarantees a delivery date
Quote
Buyer’s sole and exclusive remedy after such cure period or guaranteed delivery date is to cancel the affected and undelivered portions of the order.
the affected and undelivered portions of the order.Quote
No order, Agreement or any part thereof may be rescheduled or cancelled without Hashfast’s prior written consent.
So!
- How may I get a guaranteed delivery date while ordering, please ?
- In case you fail to deliver, will you cover for the post fees needed to send you a written notice ?
- In case I cancel my order, can I hope for a refund ?
- In case I cancel my order after you failed to deliver at a guaranteed date and you don't agree to send a written consent to acknowledge that cancellation, what happens ?
Exactly. What's that about getting written consent from Hashfast to cancel an order?? Basically it's a nice way to say "No. I don't issue refunds (but perhaps only if I feel like but who knows maybe or maybe not)" More than discretionary: completely uncertain, random and obscure.
So until they are actually upfront, transparent and serious enough on those fundamental policies my money is glued to my pocket.
you're right and they are working on that.
Cool! Are they working on the pictures of the 505 units in stock, too ? Can't wait!
Oh, I was thinking the 505 units in stock was referring to the 550 unit preorder limit, didn't realize it was actual in stock. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
From the ToS:
So!
- How may I get a guaranteed delivery date while ordering, please ?
- In case I cancel my order, can I hope for a refund ?
- In case I cancel my order after you failed to deliver at a guaranteed date and you don't agree to send a written consent to acknowledge that cancellation, what happens ?
Quote
Except for delivery dates explicitly guaranteed in the order confirmation, delivery dates communicated or acknowledged by Hashfast are approximate only
Quote
Buyer will give Hashfast written notice of failure to deliver and thirty (30) days within which to cure, unless the order confirmation explicitly guarantees a delivery date
Quote
Buyer’s sole and exclusive remedy after such cure period or guaranteed delivery date is to cancel the affected and undelivered portions of the order.
the affected and undelivered portions of the order.Quote
No order, Agreement or any part thereof may be rescheduled or cancelled without Hashfast’s prior written consent.
So!
- How may I get a guaranteed delivery date while ordering, please ?
- In case I cancel my order, can I hope for a refund ?
- In case I cancel my order after you failed to deliver at a guaranteed date and you don't agree to send a written consent to acknowledge that cancellation, what happens ?
Problems already...
Error creating bitpay invoice. Please try again or try another payment method.
Error creating bitpay invoice. Please try again or try another payment method.
Had the same problem.
Lousy exchange rate. Definitely not Fort Gox. 60.8665btc=$5,764
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