Topic: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: up to 800GH/s - page 7. (Read 29808 times)

US law requires a full refund in US dollars.  That's been very clear all along.

If BTC crashed to $10, you could have taken your legally required 100% USD refund and bought loads more BTC.  Sorry, but that didn't happen.

If HashFast had enough resources to build your machine without your money, we would have simply kept the machines for ourselves and not taken the unnecessary (and risky) step of involving customers.

"Full BTC refunds" means a full refund of the price (which is always denominated in USD) via the exchange medium of BTC.

Unfortunately, the decision of a few disgruntled customers to lawyer up and go the legal route forced HashFast to issue refunds solely in USD.

But if BTC crashes to $10, you would happily refund the original BTC amount right?

What a piece of shit that you are. I pray to god your family dies due to horrific disease

Reposts #17: (thanks HF_CL, i don't even need to clear the clipboard, it's already there)




Court? You are such an ignorant. The contract you forced us into says arbitration. It's Morici that will bring you in court and win.

Don't worry -  i will be there with kilograms of popcorns. Yeah, kilograms, you know what a kilogram is, right? It's one thousand grams.


I will take it as so.


Yes, forced. It's a forced arbitration clause.

Do you want to talk about the fact that you are denying the very existence of the early versions of your contract?
Or do you prefer to talk about the 3 days or so where your Terms of Sales were offline when you opened sales again for your new fantastic EVO?

And since that you keep removing the link (what a poor tactic); you can read this full thread by replacing "bitcointalk.org" with "bitcointa.lk" on this URL.

They recently added a new term to the ToS, if i understood it correctly they can change them retroactively now.


Dear HashFast_CL,

Do you really believe that you are gonna get yourself out of your LIES with such a poor misunderstanding of what the Bitcoin community believes in?
Here is a screenshoot of my Skype conversation with your marketing director and executive John S.
Please read "we only care about our losses, that are not measured in USD".
It was first posted in this board back in October, when no-on would have expected the price to rise as it did.
Moreover, you promised BTC refunds. If you didn't intended to, you shouldn't have LIED to us.

Conversation: http://i.imgur.com/XLQIa1g.png

Also quoting this post as another reference to prove the relation between HashFast (the company) and HashFast_CL:


(don't worry HF_CL, this is not the first time that you fall for things like this, and i've already saved all of the others).
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #tBRPDR5N1M2yXRTy

I know you want that to be true because HashFast screwed up so badly, but it's not true. HashFast promised full BTC refunds for any reason if they were late. They were late, therefore they must offer full BTC refunds. Look up classic "if...then..." logic to understand fully what's going on.

squirming around the truth like a dying worm. I give you a pound of rice, you owe me a pound of rice. Oldest principle of the world.

No, but you are responsible for living up to the terms of sale that you and your customers agreed to.

Why did you promise full btc refunds if either:

a. You don't understand the volatility of bitcoin

or

b. You don't hold all btc payments in full in case of refunds.

"Buyer's remorse" is not a new term in the dictionary; in fact it's very old, well known, and has everything to do with this case (wherein reasonable understanding of context is studiously ignored because it precludes grants of outlandish windfalls).


That is the psychological side; it's economic counterpart is called 'opportunity cost'


HashFast, or any other merchant of any other good or service, is not responsible for the opportunity cost incurred by a customer.

It has absolutely nothing to do with the appreciation of Bitcoin. Your company advertised an October 20th delivery, and claimed to be "on time" until just before you missed that target— now it seems like you were just committing fraud at that point considering you didn't even have the chips until months later. I paid you roughly 5x per GH/s what your competition was charging specifically because you assured me that by doing business with you I wouldn't end up with substantially fewer coins than I started with as a result of delays or failure on your part. You assured this in several layered ways, including a promise of a full refund in the case that you had massively failed to deliver— which turned out to be the case. That promise required holding or hedging and was worth a premium. Because of these assurances I took a risk in doing business with you, and even if you do ultimately make good on your contract I will still be at a significant loss in terms of time, stress, exposure to fraud risk from you, and loss of use of those funds for seven months.

I'm perfectly happy with the actual purchase I made— with the ink on the paper and the terms of the agreement. My only regret is that paper is nearly worthless when the counterpart is a con-artist. To emphasize this further, I'd also be happy to receive the hardware plus the Bitcoin it would have mined had you delivered it on your advertised date. That I haven't been demanding that instead is because it's somewhat more than the full refund which was my "only recourse" according to our agreement, unlike you I'm willing to stick to the actual agreement even when it's a loss to me. Hell, I was prepared to accept— according to our agreement— the hardware plus full MPP and what it would have mined starting on your massively late deadline date of December 31st, though that would be a loss to me. In my first certified letter I proposed an alternative negotiation which would have allowed you to refund me in additional hardware (with a formula for the amount based on when you sent it), specifically because if you did something massive stupid and didn't hold/hedge I didn't want to put you out of business— for the same reason that you're getting forum posts from me and not a process server banging on your door. I'm willing to negotiate and even consider alternatives that leave me somewhat worse off than our agreed terms, because I think business should result in mutually beneficial results. Sadly, you've ignored my letters. What I will not accept is taking a complete bath while _you_ take a windfall, in violation of our contract, nor will I accept a "settlement" that leaves me defrauded while prohibiting me from telling others.

Yes, 3 months is a relatively long period of BTC/USD stability.

The $100-$120 range was in effect for eons of Bitcoin Time.   

There was no way to predict (unless you're cypherdoc) those bounds would be broken on a spike to $1200 and retrace to $600.

Ah, you found a new term in the dictionary, "buyer's remorse". Another nice term that has absolutely no bearing on this case. HashFast promised full BTC refunds if they were late. Need me to post proof again? The customer is entitled to a full BTC refund, for any reason, because HashFast failed to deliver on time.

Thanks for having decided to delete my repost #13, after that i pointed that out. #14 incoming.
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #tOLtoJ55FL1qjc3y

The statement was made in August and the market crashed from 250$ in April... so 3 months is a long period of BTC/USD stability?

Thanks for the gem.
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #TFLFPqSAud9iABEP

Did I?

I didn't cut the spam, it's just that you finally decided to keep the "repost #13". Wise decision. You are growing.
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #goOcdfdw05C8MTHt

Sure. Everyone expected you to comply with your promises and to have held or hedged the Bitcoins you collected in order to do so, the talk about investors certainly created that impression, and the very reason we asked about the refunds was specifically because of that case and the reason that we still purchased your hardware at 4-5x the cost per GH of your competition at the time was because of assurances like that.

It's a very easy scam that others are believed to have performed in the past: Collect a bunch of pre-order money. If BTC goes up a lot 'refund' a bunch of people USD. If it goes down, either go ahead and ship a product to everyone or try to refund in BTC.

The fact that you also forcefully "refunded" fractional amounts in USD denominated terms in violation of the contract to many early customers without them ever asking for a refund makes a lot of people believe you are engaging in this fraudulently behavior and that perhaps you company intended to do so all along.

There is no windfall here. I started with X Bitcoin. You sold me a machine to mine Bitcoin for those X Bitcoin scheduled for late october whos value you would almost certainly rapidly decrease and would have been rather close to only breaking even— mining back just X Bitcoin— if you shipped on time and would become worthless if you were late. Your contract allowed you to be up to two months late with no recourse, which would have made my purchase into a substantial loss. To prevent a total loss your contract guaranteed a cancellation and full refund if you were later than that. You were— shipping to apparently a fraction of customers three months after your advertised date and almost one month after your own self-set deadline.

Few sane would spend X bitcoins to purchase hardware which would only ever mine 0.1*X bitcoins, they certainly wouldn't do so at 5x the cost of the competition. Your company was abundantly clear on this and because of it some of us purchased, because while we saw how other companies exploited ambiguity we didn't expect to get ripped off by someone overtly violating their agreement.

Part of how you managed to gain sales originally was by convincing people your company understood the business of mining. It's ironic now how you insist on not understanding it— arguing that people should be happy to pay X bitcoin to buy hardware that earns a tiny fraction back when doing so is essential for your mindblowing claim that everyone's understanding all along was that you planned on refunding the full amount paid regardless of (and specifically due to) BTC price changes in the face of the fact that your founders and support staff clarified this point in the clearest possible terms several times in public and in private. Do you expect that people will want to buy your new mining boards from a company that now insists that it doesn't understand mining?

No, I never said that.

Are you saying that HashFast should have to pay out billions of USD refunds, if BTC went to a million dollars each?

If you are (as appears to be the case) please check your assumptions, because they have lead you to an unreasonable and obviously silly conclusion.

lets put the breakwind topic aside for a moment. What news about shipping?

As you might be aware, one of your bosses mentioned something about 'timing is everything in asic business' or so some months ago.

You sent me a check which was clearly labeled as a _settlement_ for about 10% of the value you owed me and contained a long list of burdensome conditions, such as that I couldn't tell other people how much you screwed me over. I don't believe I could ethical accept terms like that, nor should I especially for such an enormous loss.  You sold me a machine to mine bitcoin and then you failed to deliver. As a result I lost most of my purchase price— and at the moment all of my purchase price because you refuse to refund and instead  

You again prove that you're not actually reading the certified letters arriving, I have an attorney. I also have not complained to the state of California, though I suppose I probably should do that as well— especially now that you've made it clear with your consistent direct lying as you're doing here that you aren't operating your business in good faith.

I didn't unlock the thread. Your locking of it, however generated a number of moderator reports, so I presume someone did it.  SOP around here is that we do unlock threads when scamming vendors try to use locking to suppress people from discussing their fraud.

And please, you think I'm about to lift a finger to help you after you've fucked me over like this and behaved in such an unprofessional manner? The fact that I'm disinclined to apply the full power available to me against you should in no way be interpreted as suggesting that I think I owe you anything. I already gave you every kindness by attempting to resolve your default for three months in private before blasting you in public— attempts seem to have been completely ignored.  You always have the option of going away or convincing some other moderator who you haven't defrauded and deprived of 98 BTC. I've asked people to not repost the same stuff and to keep their posts related to their concerns that your new product (such as concerns that it will not be delivered or perform to specification based on your past and continuing dishonest and unethical business conduct), but beyond that as far as I'm concerned you can pound sand...