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Topic: Health and Religion - page 105. (Read 210869 times)

legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
November 23, 2016, 01:28:34 AM
And many doctors will tell you about the miracle healings when people pray, healings that they have no idea why they came about.

Cool

Sometimes, the human body is able to fight back the viruses and bacteria which causes the diseases. This immunity varies from person to person. It has nothing to do with prayer or religious belief.

However, you don't know that. You have no proof, and there is a whole lot of evidence that says you are wrong.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
November 23, 2016, 01:27:22 AM
And many doctors will tell you about the miracle healings when people pray, healings that they have no idea why they came about.

Cool

Sometimes, the human body is able to fight back the viruses and bacteria which causes the diseases. This immunity varies from person to person. It has nothing to do with prayer or religious belief.
I do believe that religion is harmful to health. A lot of religious tenets aimed at the fact that the best medicine is prayer. This leads to the fact that people later go to the doctor and die.

This leads to the fact that if they had not gone to the doctor, they probably would have lived longer. Read the articles at Natural News.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
November 23, 2016, 01:24:26 AM

As I wrote you in a previous post, my mother died by cancer at 69. She was a believer, she was utterly religious and what you could call an "perfect christian". She attended the mass every sunday, worked for the local church and so on. I'm sure she prayed until her last breath but she eventually died.

I don't want to start a new back-to-back game of replies with you, but I would like to know where your god was when she was praying him to save her life, and what was his plan for her. Eternal afterlife? Jesus salvation? Mhmm...  Undecided

Isn't simpler telling that god doesn't exists, and all you religious people are delusional? Seems way more realistic.

I can relate to this also MiSKLaCH. I lost my father to cancer when he was 64. He too was a believer but he did not regularly attend church. Did his prayers save his life? Obviously not. The best I can hope for is they gave him peace when he needed it.

If your father truly was a believer, God answered his prayers. Your father is praising God in Paradise right now, as he awaits the coming resurrection where he will be reunited with his body, which will be in a glorified state, then.

Come into faith, so that you can have a glorious resurrection, as well. If you don't... oh well. Your dad won't miss you in Heaven. He will be way too busy enjoying the wonders of a God Who is so immensely great that the whole universe is as nothing in His presence.

Cool
sr. member
Activity: 337
Merit: 258
November 22, 2016, 11:17:41 PM

As I wrote you in a previous post, my mother died by cancer at 69. She was a believer, she was utterly religious and what you could call an "perfect christian". She attended the mass every sunday, worked for the local church and so on. I'm sure she prayed until her last breath but she eventually died.

I don't want to start a new back-to-back game of replies with you, but I would like to know where your god was when she was praying him to save her life, and what was his plan for her. Eternal afterlife? Jesus salvation? Mhmm...  Undecided

Isn't simpler telling that god doesn't exists, and all you religious people are delusional? Seems way more realistic.

I can relate to this also MiSKLaCH. I lost my father to cancer when he was 64. He too was a believer but he did not regularly attend church. Did his prayers save his life? Obviously not. The best I can hope for is they gave him peace when he needed it.
hero member
Activity: 621
Merit: 500
November 22, 2016, 04:46:08 PM
And many doctors will tell you about the miracle healings when people pray, healings that they have no idea why they came about.

Cool

Sometimes, the human body is able to fight back the viruses and bacteria which causes the diseases. This immunity varies from person to person. It has nothing to do with prayer or religious belief.
I do believe that religion is harmful to health. A lot of religious tenets aimed at the fact that the best medicine is prayer. This leads to the fact that people later go to the doctor and die.
legendary
Activity: 3332
Merit: 1352
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
November 22, 2016, 01:57:09 PM
And many doctors will tell you about the miracle healings when people pray, healings that they have no idea why they came about.

Cool

Sometimes, the human body is able to fight back the viruses and bacteria which causes the diseases. This immunity varies from person to person. It has nothing to do with prayer or religious belief.
sr. member
Activity: 417
Merit: 253
I hate everyone, equally.
November 22, 2016, 01:20:37 PM
Nobody knows that nothing happens.

God listens to all prayer. But if the person doesn't believe in God, the pray isn't the same as it is for those who believe.

In addition, God answers the prayer according to what is really being prayed. Most people don't know what they are really asking for. For example.

A person might pray for a million dollars, but doesn't get it. Why not? His real prayer was for security in life. A million might make him vulnerable to all the con artists out to get his money. So, he is formally asking for just the opposite of what he is really praying for in his heart. Rather, this praying person gets spiritual peace from God instead, because that is what he was really asking for.

Cool

As I wrote you in a previous post, my mother died by cancer at 69. She was a believer, she was utterly religious and what you could call an "perfect christian". She attended the mass every sunday, worked for the local church and so on. I'm sure she prayed until her last breath but she eventually died.

I don't want to start a new back-to-back game of replies with you, but I would like to know where your god was when she was praying him to save her life, and what was his plan for her. Eternal afterlife? Jesus salvation? Mhmm...  Undecided

Isn't simpler telling that god doesn't exists, and all you religious people are delusional? Seems way more realistic.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
November 22, 2016, 01:06:06 PM
That is a very good tutorials I believed  some christian prefare prayers to hospital when they are sick also in some countries they prefare traditional way of healing for their health needs

A far better approach is to take advantage of modern medicine when you get sick. Medicine is good at managing and mitigating serious illness. If you develop a major medical problem the best person to see is a physician as that will be the person with the best chance of helping you.

Prayer has its place but praying for divine intervention instead of going to the doctor is a lot like praying for divine intervention to stop the flooding caused by a broken pipe. Nothing is impossible but a better outcome will likely result from finding and shutting off the water main.

We are now living in a new technology, nothing is impossible now, kn terms of health, the new technology applies already. Most people now depends on medicine. People now a days prefer to go to doctor first before praying. And the practice of healing prayer now becomes eldom because many of us believe that modern trchnology on healing is what we need. praying and going to doctor for your health can be done simultaneosly.

"People now a days prefer to go to doctor first before praying." they maybe don't prefer but they have to if they don't want that illness to get worse or die, and also it's known to work unlike using words to ask air to help you.

And many doctors will tell you about the miracle healings when people pray, healings that they have no idea why they came about.

Cool

And what about the ones where people pray and nothing happens?

Or..... people don't pray and medical science cures?

Nobody knows that nothing happens.

God listens to all prayer. But if the person doesn't believe in God, the pray isn't the same as it is for those who believe.

In addition, God answers the prayer according to what is really being prayed. Most people don't know what they are really asking for. For example.

A person might pray for a million dollars, but doesn't get it. Why not? His real prayer was for security in life. A million might make him vulnerable to all the con artists out to get his money. So, he is formally asking for just the opposite of what he is really praying for in his heart. Rather, this praying person gets spiritual peace from God instead, because that is what he was really asking for.

Cool
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
November 22, 2016, 06:55:06 AM
That is a very good tutorials I believed  some christian prefare prayers to hospital when they are sick also in some countries they prefare traditional way of healing for their health needs

A far better approach is to take advantage of modern medicine when you get sick. Medicine is good at managing and mitigating serious illness. If you develop a major medical problem the best person to see is a physician as that will be the person with the best chance of helping you.

Prayer has its place but praying for divine intervention instead of going to the doctor is a lot like praying for divine intervention to stop the flooding caused by a broken pipe. Nothing is impossible but a better outcome will likely result from finding and shutting off the water main.

We are now living in a new technology, nothing is impossible now, kn terms of health, the new technology applies already. Most people now depends on medicine. People now a days prefer to go to doctor first before praying. And the practice of healing prayer now becomes eldom because many of us believe that modern trchnology on healing is what we need. praying and going to doctor for your health can be done simultaneosly.

"People now a days prefer to go to doctor first before praying." they maybe don't prefer but they have to if they don't want that illness to get worse or die, and also it's known to work unlike using words to ask air to help you.

And many doctors will tell you about the miracle healings when people pray, healings that they have no idea why they came about.

Cool

And what about the ones where people pray and nothing happens?

Or..... people don't pray and medical science cures?
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
November 21, 2016, 08:38:40 PM
That is a very good tutorials I believed  some christian prefare prayers to hospital when they are sick also in some countries they prefare traditional way of healing for their health needs

A far better approach is to take advantage of modern medicine when you get sick. Medicine is good at managing and mitigating serious illness. If you develop a major medical problem the best person to see is a physician as that will be the person with the best chance of helping you.

Prayer has its place but praying for divine intervention instead of going to the doctor is a lot like praying for divine intervention to stop the flooding caused by a broken pipe. Nothing is impossible but a better outcome will likely result from finding and shutting off the water main.

We are now living in a new technology, nothing is impossible now, kn terms of health, the new technology applies already. Most people now depends on medicine. People now a days prefer to go to doctor first before praying. And the practice of healing prayer now becomes eldom because many of us believe that modern trchnology on healing is what we need. praying and going to doctor for your health can be done simultaneosly.

"People now a days prefer to go to doctor first before praying." they maybe don't prefer but they have to if they don't want that illness to get worse or die, and also it's known to work unlike using words to ask air to help you.

And many doctors will tell you about the miracle healings when people pray, healings that they have no idea why they came about.

Cool
hero member
Activity: 1022
Merit: 564
Need some spare btc for a new PC
November 21, 2016, 07:07:57 PM
That is a very good tutorials I believed  some christian prefare prayers to hospital when they are sick also in some countries they prefare traditional way of healing for their health needs

A far better approach is to take advantage of modern medicine when you get sick. Medicine is good at managing and mitigating serious illness. If you develop a major medical problem the best person to see is a physician as that will be the person with the best chance of helping you.

Prayer has its place but praying for divine intervention instead of going to the doctor is a lot like praying for divine intervention to stop the flooding caused by a broken pipe. Nothing is impossible but a better outcome will likely result from finding and shutting off the water main.

We are now living in a new technology, nothing is impossible now, kn terms of health, the new technology applies already. Most people now depends on medicine. People now a days prefer to go to doctor first before praying. And the practice of healing prayer now becomes eldom because many of us believe that modern trchnology on healing is what we need. praying and going to doctor for your health can be done simultaneosly.

"People now a days prefer to go to doctor first before praying." they maybe don't prefer but they have to if they don't want that illness to get worse or die, and also it's known to work unlike using words to ask air to help you.
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
November 21, 2016, 03:35:54 PM
I wasn't questioning the article Coincube. You needn't have tried to add weight by appealing to academic authority. I know that religion has practical (in this instance health) benefits - it almost goes without saying. How else would it survive ?

I was more expressing scepticism over your own claimed academic background and professional qualifications in medicine. This scepticism has in no small way been fortified by :-
          a) your continued deference to the great Anonymint  [who, though he seems to have slain his demons somewhat of late (arguably), has historically shown himself to be not quite the full shilling to anyone with any kind of a sensitivity to these things]

      and  b) your signature - which is a link to Coincubes "highlights".

practicaldreamer my signature is simply a list of debates, essays and conversations that I have found interesting and believe others will enjoy reading. The vast majority of these are my arguments and positions.

There are a couple of highlights that were written by Anonymint and not me. These few are from the Economic Devastation topic as the thread has become too large for anyone to read.

I do not defer to Anonymint. In fact the lions share of my posts on this form involve me debating him on various topics. However, he is a smart if volatile individual. I agree with his medium term economic analysis so I linked to it. I hope you are correct when you say that he has slain his demons.

I have made no claims or appeal to personal authority in this thread and I claim no expertise on the interplay between health and religion. My professional background and qualifications are irrelevant. If I have given you the impression that I possess special knowledge on this topic I kindly ask you to discard that notion and judge the presented material on its merit alone.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
November 21, 2016, 02:18:37 PM
That is a very good tutorials I believed  some christian prefare prayers to hospital when they are sick also in some countries they prefare traditional way of healing for their health needs

A far better approach is to take advantage of modern medicine when you get sick. Medicine is good at managing and mitigating serious illness. If you develop a major medical problem the best person to see is a physician as that will be the person with the best chance of helping you.

Prayer has its place but praying for divine intervention instead of going to the doctor is a lot like praying for divine intervention to stop the flooding caused by a broken pipe. Nothing is impossible but a better outcome will likely result from finding and shutting off the water main.

We are now living in a new technology, nothing is impossible now, kn terms of health, the new technology applies already. Most people now depends on medicine. People now a days prefer to go to doctor first before praying. And the practice of healing prayer now becomes eldom because many of us believe that modern trchnology on healing is what we need. praying and going to doctor for your health can be done simultaneosly.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 500
November 21, 2016, 01:48:12 PM

Fuckin hell Coincube - why didn't you just post a link to William James' "Varieties of Religious Experience" and be done with it ? For someone who purports to be a doctor of medicine you seem to have a lot of time on your hands. I can't see too many junior doctors in the UK, even if they had the inclination for this shit, actually finding the time for it.

You are for real aren't you Coincube ?

Please don't be too hard on Coincube. I probably wouldn't have looked if all there was was a link. It was a very interesting article. Benefits to the social animal by socializing in religious atmosphere.

Cool

I take it you did not like the article practicaldreamer? I will admit I did not look too deeply into the data behind the article but it was written by a professor of epidemiology at Harvard so my assumption is that the data is reliable. Here is the educational background of the author if you want further info.

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/tyler-vanderweele/

Education: Tyler VanderWeele Professor of Epidemiology

Ph.D. (Biostatistics) 2006, Harvard University
A.M. (Biostatistics) 2005, Harvard University
M.A. (Mathematics) 2005, University of Oxford
M.A. (Finance and Applied Economics) 2002, Wharton School, University of Pennsylvania
B.A. (Philosophy and Theology) 2000, University of Oxford
B.A. (Mathematics) 2000, University of Oxford

The topic of the article is the relationship between attending religious services and health so it is very much on topic for this thread.

You describe the good professors article as "this shit" so I am assuming you have some problem with the article independent of your kind concerns about my limited free time?

I wasn't questioning the article Coincube. You needn't have tried to add weight by appealing to academic authority. I know that religion has practical (in this instance health) benefits - it almost goes without saying. How else would it survive ?

I was more expressing scepticism over your own claimed academic background and professional qualifications in medicine. This scepticism has in no small way been fortified by :-
          a) your continued deference to the great Anonymint  [who, though he seems to have slain his demons somewhat of late (arguably), has historically shown himself to be not quite the full shilling to anyone with any kind of a sensitivity to these things]

      and  b) your signature - which is a link to Coincubes "highlights".

hero member
Activity: 994
Merit: 544
November 21, 2016, 03:10:35 AM
That is a very good tutorials I believed  some christian prefare prayers to hospital when they are sick also in some countries they prefare traditional way of healing for their health needs

A far better approach is to take advantage of modern medicine when you get sick. Medicine is good at managing and mitigating serious illness. If you develop a major medical problem the best person to see is a physician as that will be the person with the best chance of helping you.

Prayer has its place but praying for divine intervention instead of going to the doctor is a lot like praying for divine intervention to stop the flooding caused by a broken pipe. Nothing is impossible but a better outcome will likely result from finding and shutting off the water main.

yes, now a days, old approach on anointing of the sick was really weird, i still go to modern medicine that can trust to cure or heal me when my health falls down. Prayers can help, Pray Hard and it works, the priest said, as long as you have faith, your faith can heal you! yes possible but if you just pray and nothing actions came from you, you think you will be heal? then why do still need doctor if prayer can heal us? Help yourself too. Religion can just give yo a false hope. you better go to the hospital and have yourself check.
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
November 10, 2016, 03:42:52 PM
Quote from: Unknown Author
When I was a young man, I wanted to change the world.

I found it was difficult to change the world, so I tried to change my nation.

When I found I couldn't change the nation, I began to focus on my town. I couldn't change the town and as an older man, I tried to change my family.

Now, as an old man, I realize the only thing I can change is myself, and suddenly I realize that if long ago I had changed myself, I could have made an impact on my family. My family and I could have made an impact on our town. Their impact could have changed the nation and I could indeed have changed the world.
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
November 10, 2016, 03:29:01 PM
Well, as cured someone's prayers? I am sure that there. Religion in General the enemy of progress. She denies all that is necessary for a person.

I would encourage more thought in regards to the general requirements for stability and progress.

Specifically:

1) The requirements for individuals in a well functioning society to set aside their personal desires when they cause harm to society as a whole.
2) The nature of collective governance and with it the ability for special interests to obtain benefits at the expense of society as a whole.
3) The general nature causes and consequences of corruption.
4) The historic decline and eventual collapse of prior civilizations.

Ethical monotheism is probably the single greatest contributor to human progress from any source since human culture emerged from the stone ages. This force which emerged first in Judaism and and spread throughout the world via the mediums of Christianity and Islam continues to shape human destiny even in a time when much of the world foolishly rejects it as irrelevant.

Quote from: Dennis Prager
Nature is amoral. Nature knows nothing of good and evil. In nature there is one rule—survival of the fittest. There is no right, only might. If a creature is weak, kill it. Only human beings could have moral rules such as, "If it is weak, protect it." Only human beings can feel themselves ethically obligated to strangers.
...
Nature allows you to act naturally, i.e., do only what you want you to do, without moral restraints; God does not. Nature lets you act naturally - and it is as natural to kill, rape, and enslave as it is to love.
...
One of the vital elements in the ethical monotheist revolution was its repudiation of nature as god. The evolution of civilization and morality have depended in large part on desanctifying nature.
...
Civilizations that equated gods with nature—a characteristic of all primitive societies—or that worshipped nature did not evolve.
...
Words cannot convey the magnitude of the change wrought by the Bible's introduction into the world of a God who rules the universe morally.


Quote from: Howard Greenstein
To hold that God is the Source and Sustainer of moral values is to insist upon an objective status for ethical ideals. They are not the impulsive fabrication of human minds, but are grounded in the very bedrock of creation. Moral laws have objective validity similar to the laws of physics. They are not our invention, but it is for us to discover them. Just as it would be foolish to defy the law of gravity and hope to escape its consequences, so is it perilous to presume that a human infant can grow to emotional maturity without ever being loved or cared for. In both cases the penalty for ignoring the law is a natural consequence of defying the given realities of the universe. The uniqueness of God in this context is the complex but delicate blend of both physical and spiritual reality in a single deity which accounts for the balance, harmony and order of nature within us and without.

Ethical monotheism is not just a way of talking about God. It is a way of understanding human experience; it is a way of organizing the world in which we live. It is a faith that attempts to explain what we do not know by beginning with what we do know. We do know our awareness of this world is rooted in a unity of our own senses. We do know that defiance of moral law invites a disaster as devastating as any contempt for the laws of physics or chemistry or biology.
full member
Activity: 235
Merit: 250
November 10, 2016, 02:19:05 PM
You will have to get rid of a lot more of your foolishness before you will be able to see clearly to do anything.

Cool

Still here replying to this hopelessly atheist? Don't you have a "holy mass" waiting for you in your local church?
Are you still convinced that you will deceive me, eventually? Save some dignity, stop playing with me, you won't win this race!

Nobody could deceive you. You are caught up in your own self-deception so deeply that there isn't room for anyone else.

Cool
If people like to deceive themselves, why him out of it? He does not want. Religious people remind me of children who grew up, but continue to believe in Santa Claus.
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
November 10, 2016, 02:16:47 PM
That is a very good tutorials I believed  some christian prefare prayers to hospital when they are sick also in some countries they prefare traditional way of healing for their health needs

A far better approach is to take advantage of modern medicine when you get sick. Medicine is good at managing and mitigating serious illness. If you develop a major medical problem the best person to see is a physician as that will be the person with the best chance of helping you.

Prayer has its place but praying for divine intervention instead of going to the doctor is a lot like praying for divine intervention to stop the flooding caused by a broken pipe. Nothing is impossible but a better outcome will likely result from finding and shutting off the water main.
sr. member
Activity: 301
Merit: 250
November 10, 2016, 02:13:45 PM
That is a very good tutorials I believed  some christian prefare prayers to hospital when they are sick also in some countries they prefare traditional way of healing for their health needs
Well, as cured someone's prayers? I am sure that there. Religion in General the enemy of progress. She denies all that is necessary for a person.
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