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Topic: Historic Cryptogenic Bullion thread - CLOSED - page 32. (Read 286624 times)

hero member
Activity: 750
Merit: 503
Thought i try and track a a few deposits of CGB i've made in the past to cr*ptsy but i've only made a few so am limited to following those txs, but I found this interesting address that has had a large amount of CGB moved to it recently and has a balance of 180001 CGB.
Now I could be mistaken but i believe its a crypsty wallet that will be seen to stake at a later point in the year. The tidy 20k inputs are from addresses that can be seen to have staked previously and have held large amounts of CGB. Maybe its is a mid year tidy up (after all the previous splitting from PoS) for the "owner" Cheesy
 
http://blocks.gotcrypto.net/address/5SHzAQkDJ6w9fH6c7rC8C5Bxiu1pyMLbcs

Maybe if some others could track a few of their historic deposits and see if they end up at same addresses on http://blocks.gotcrypto.net/, it would give a better idea of how much CGB is controlled by the exchange.  This address alone contains over 18% or nearly 1/5 of total CGB that exists. Shocked





I would bet it is cryptsy's address. It makes sense to me for them to have most of their deposited CGB stored in one address, to stake it every 30 days, sell off the interest and be done with it every month.
legendary
Activity: 1672
Merit: 1014
Seems i could have save some time and jumped straight to the richest addresses here : https://coinplorer.com/CGB/Addresses/0/Top

Apologies if this has been mentioned before, its the first time i've seen it.

Very interesting list to check and some perspective Cheesy

legendary
Activity: 1672
Merit: 1014
Thought i try and track a a few deposits of CGB i've made in the past to cr*ptsy but i've only made a few so am limited to following those txs, but I found this interesting address that has had a large amount of CGB moved to it recently and has a balance of 180001 CGB.
Now I could be mistaken but i believe its a crypsty wallet that will be seen to stake at a later point in the year. The tidy 20k inputs are from addresses that can be seen to have staked previously and have held large amounts of CGB. Maybe its is a mid year tidy up (after all the previous splitting from PoS) for the "owner" Cheesy
 
http://blocks.gotcrypto.net/address/5SHzAQkDJ6w9fH6c7rC8C5Bxiu1pyMLbcs

Maybe if some others could track a few of their historic deposits and see if they end up at same addresses on http://blocks.gotcrypto.net/, it would give a better idea of how much CGB is controlled by the exchange.  This address alone contains over 18% or nearly 1/5 of total CGB that exists. Shocked



legendary
Activity: 1672
Merit: 1014


higher % stake does not reward existing holders at all (creates dilution which decreases each units price), it actually screws over everyone who bought in because of rarity (ie knowing the market cap would stay under 1 mil). instantly evaporating any trust.
yes coins do it in panic mode as a bandaid approach to save a coin, but only those who either directly want to bail or honest people with very little real understanding of economics, market dynamics and/or the trustless system btc introduced.



Existing holders get all the stake. It is up to them to sell or keep it. There is no 'dilution'  whatever the % stake is: Dilution would only happen if a new group or a limited group got additional stake.

100% pa would be the sort of stake that would get new 'investors' interested, and they would have to buy from existing holders, who would dictate the price. There is very little supply on the market.



Cr*psty would LOVE this idea.  Imagine all the CGB they have currently thanks to user deposits and the potential CGB they would generate to dump onto market with a change like this.  Cr*ptsy is the most likely the BIGGEST holder of CGB and would take full advantage of increased PoS interest to dump onto market.  This would allow any exchange with a large amount of CGB deposited there to use tradevestors deposits against them on a scale that is not currently possible thanks to low interest and demote CGB to just another cryptocoin. Sad  
IMZ
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000
This is a major development:

"The European Central Bank has become the first of the world’s monetary superpowers to cut its deposit rate below zero, taking a leap into the unknown as it tries to drive down the euro and head off deflation."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/10879459/Mario-Draghi-takes-historic-gamble-with-negative-rates-but-still-stops-short-of-QE.html

Mark Blair, Australia
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250


higher % stake does not reward existing holders at all (creates dilution which decreases each units price), it actually screws over everyone who bought in because of rarity (ie knowing the market cap would stay under 1 mil). instantly evaporating any trust.
yes coins do it in panic mode as a bandaid approach to save a coin, but only those who either directly want to bail or honest people with very little real understanding of economics, market dynamics and/or the trustless system btc introduced.



Existing holders get all the stake. It is up to them to sell or keep it. There is no 'dilution'  whatever the % stake is: Dilution would only happen if a new group or a limited group got additional stake.

100% pa would be the sort of stake that would get new 'investors' interested, and they would have to buy from existing holders, who would dictate the price. There is very little supply on the market.



Sorry Majormax I disagree. I'm a holder of CGB because of the low inflation. It is after all Cryptogenic Bullion not Bunny Rabbits.

The day of the wise investor will come for CGB, when the un-wise investors have all been stung.

Hey Killiz. I was wondering what you meant by rabbits and then.. ooh. Oh yeah  Grin

Usually these things can be worked out by imagining an extreme case, for example, 100%/yr mint reward. As the year goes on, everyone knows that the number of CGB out there should double within that year, and therefore the expected price should be half. Usually with this kind of prior knowledge, holders know what to do with their freshly minted coins, sell em before the other guy does.

Let's say I have money and I'm looking at CGB. Am I going to buy it after something like this is announced, knowing that, all other things being equal, my investment will be diminished by half? Will giving existing holders more CGB to sell to me even look like a selling point when they are collectively, as a community, sitting on a pile of CGB and selling off the interest to me? Coin distribution was mostly a function of mining for the last year. Now the distribution mechanism is shifting to the market.

We know there is already plenty of supply on the market; the question is, at which price?
hero member
Activity: 750
Merit: 503


higher % stake does not reward existing holders at all (creates dilution which decreases each units price), it actually screws over everyone who bought in because of rarity (ie knowing the market cap would stay under 1 mil). instantly evaporating any trust.
yes coins do it in panic mode as a bandaid approach to save a coin, but only those who either directly want to bail or honest people with very little real understanding of economics, market dynamics and/or the trustless system btc introduced.



Existing holders get all the stake. It is up to them to sell or keep it. There is no 'dilution'  whatever the % stake is: Dilution would only happen if a new group or a limited group got additional stake.

100% pa would be the sort of stake that would get new 'investors' interested, and they would have to buy from existing holders, who would dictate the price. There is very little supply on the market.



Sorry Majormax I disagree. I'm a holder of CGB because of the low inflation. It is after all Cryptogenic Bullion not Bunny Rabbits.

The day of the wise investor will come for CGB, when the un-wise investors have all been stung.
legendary
Activity: 2534
Merit: 1129


higher % stake does not reward existing holders at all (creates dilution which decreases each units price), it actually screws over everyone who bought in because of rarity (ie knowing the market cap would stay under 1 mil). instantly evaporating any trust.
yes coins do it in panic mode as a bandaid approach to save a coin, but only those who either directly want to bail or honest people with very little real understanding of economics, market dynamics and/or the trustless system btc introduced.



Existing holders get all the stake. It is up to them to sell or keep it. There is no 'dilution'  whatever the % stake is: Dilution would only happen if a new group or a limited group got additional stake.

100% pa would be the sort of stake that would get new 'investors' interested, and they would have to buy from existing holders, who would dictate the price. There is very little supply on the market.

newbie
Activity: 32
Merit: 0
hi all~
Mark Blair just introduced CGB to me.
I'm the only altcoin developer living in South Korea(till now..) and
always have interest in altcoins  Wink
I just downloaded windows wallet and wanna get more info
thanks  Grin


2 questions...

1 How you you know you're the only one ?
2 May I ask what altcoin ? Is it out yet ?

1. ofcourse there can be a 'possible' developer in korea but nobody released yet. and i couldn't find them till now.
  some korean-american are releasing there work but not living in korea.
2. about our coin? or about my interest? we have own coin and also have interest in other 'healthy' altcoins.
 and Mark just told about CGB  Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 346
Merit: 255

Quote
Let’s explore the psychology of the miner and the investor. The miner wants to create a new coin with high initial reward so they can reap it all and sell for a quick buck. The investor sees this activity as a ponzi type scheme where new capital must flow to match the mining dump just to prevent the unit price from collapsing. If a currency is just beginning, it's hardly worth putting any capital in at all. Doing the math and you will see that your investment is inflating away at an alarming rate while the miners dump for profit. Some people think that miners will hold on to valuable new coins but this is not true because mining implies a lower value of each new coin and the first miner to sell realizes the highest price. A miner who waits is hoping that boatloads of cash come sailing in from somewhere. Smart investors don't want to touch that unless it’s a truly revolutionary crypto-currency which would bring such a cash flow.


Interesting, I would class myself as a 'minvestor' Cheesy speculative mining (at cost) as I believe CGB has enormous potential.
IMZ
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000
Morale Booster:

It's not just 'goin' off' on Coindesk and Coinmarketcap, guys. Last year -- ten months ago -- I spent weeks patiently trying to get to talk to a computer company near here that specialises in . . . cutting-edge computer stuff!! The guy at least didn't treat me like an idiot. I waited and waited and waited. Started again last week to get a face-to-face meeting scheduled:

BINGO!!!  The owner remembers our conversation. Bitcoin is now officially A Subject of Interest. Gonna go have a chat.

Mark, Australia
CGB: more modern money
IMZ
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000
Patmast3r!

The coin is the Dokdo (and they have just finished this second changing horses in mid-stream, from 'DDC' coin to 'Dokdo' coin). The only place in the world where you can buy this coin in English is on IndiaMikeZulu's micro bourse at

http://indiamikezulu.com.au/159/dokdo-coin-community-exchange/

The English-speaking community hangs out here: https://cryptocointalk.com/topic/6872-dokdocoin-dokdo-information/

The project has been time-consuming, clumsy and unprofitable. Wonderful!! Once again, our crazy idea of Putting Down Deep Roots is paying off. The devs of this coin are remarkable: painstaking and polite.

I reckon they would make fine fellow travellers: the CGB Consultancy could connect Dokdo to the world, and vice versa.

Mark Blair, Australia
CGB: a coin just like your mum used to make
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
Sadly, the currencies which stuck to their original plans, apart from a tiny handful, just withered away.

The flip side is any divergence from the original plan that alters the total coin supply or the rate in which coins are distributed, defeats the whole trust less system, this is lost on so many panic change quickly or die mentality of the old school coins of late.

I think we are all (altcoins) really grinding through a tough patch as Bitcoin recovers from the recent hostile positions taken against it by government and big business alike. I bet there is a lot of soul searching going on out there.  I know what you mean by the panic driven change, and have taken many opportunities in the past to present a calm and rational view. For us, it is a bit of a unique situation. Very few coins have had to deal with the turbulence of moving beyond the mining phase, which seems to attract all of the attention. We now have to forge ahead and create value in ways other than mining focused speculation. Details to follow shortly..

Coin original supply is one thing of course, but the opportunity for new entrants to acquire holdings introduces new blood and ideas. Revival is difficult without that. A higher % stake is a good way to reward existing holders. There also needs to be a cheap plentiful supply on the market for a while.

Time , and price, will tell which are the dominant features in a CryptoCurrency. There are an immense number of competing coins, and most communities have their own good ideas, but they cannot all win (in fact I would say very few can be winners).

Most coins are for 'Investors' because there are very few real payment applications.

higher % stake does not reward existing holders at all (creates dilution which decreases each units price), it actually screws over everyone who bought in because of rarity (ie knowing the market cap would stay under 1 mil). instantly evaporating any trust.
yes coins do it in panic mode as a bandaid approach to save a coin, but only those who either directly want to bail or honest people with very little real understanding of economics, market dynamics and/or the trustless system btc introduced.



+1  Only reason i'm holding CGB is because of rarity and low interest, it would not make sense otherwise.  I've been into CGB since the early days and have seen it at a wide range of prices and most of what i'm holding has been bought from 120k and under, bulk of it i withdrew and kept in my wallet.  I was able to pick another 200 from recent dumps and i'm sending most of this to my wallet as well for long term holding and staking.  

Hey digit, thanks for the input! Love stackin'

Kelsey you have come across an interesting point in this discussion. Who does higher stake% reward? How will it attract attention, investment, value, etc? In fact, a higher stake% does reward holders, and not in a nice way in my opinion. Lets say we bump it to 20%. Who gets this? Current holders of CGB. We can show that the minter who sells their earnings first, reaps the highest return. The one who decides to sell last is hitting a more flooded market with less return. This is the exact same dynamic that would be seen in a pure Proof of Work crypto. This is why creation of new coins quickly puts a downward pressure on the price. Of course this pressure can be balanced by other factors but it will express itself nonetheless. Ah, finally found this fairly relevant quote in an article I wrote back in February called Entrenched Interests, Lost Direction, and Stagnation in the Crypto-Currency Markets (caution, red pill lol Cool):

Quote
Let’s explore the psychology of the miner and the investor. The miner wants to create a new coin with high initial reward so they can reap it all and sell for a quick buck. The investor sees this activity as a ponzi type scheme where new capital must flow to match the mining dump just to prevent the unit price from collapsing. If a currency is just beginning, it's hardly worth putting any capital in at all. Doing the math and you will see that your investment is inflating away at an alarming rate while the miners dump for profit. Some people think that miners will hold on to valuable new coins but this is not true because mining implies a lower value of each new coin and the first miner to sell realizes the highest price. A miner who waits is hoping that boatloads of cash come sailing in from somewhere. Smart investors don't want to touch that unless it’s a truly revolutionary crypto-currency which would bring such a cash flow.


papersheepdog, Canada
legendary
Activity: 1672
Merit: 1014
Sadly, the currencies which stuck to their original plans, apart from a tiny handful, just withered away.

The flip side is any divergence from the original plan that alters the total coin supply or the rate in which coins are distributed, defeats the whole trust less system, this is lost on so many panic change quickly or die mentality of the old school coins of late.

I think we are all (altcoins) really grinding through a tough patch as Bitcoin recovers from the recent hostile positions taken against it by government and big business alike. I bet there is a lot of soul searching going on out there.  I know what you mean by the panic driven change, and have taken many opportunities in the past to present a calm and rational view. For us, it is a bit of a unique situation. Very few coins have had to deal with the turbulence of moving beyond the mining phase, which seems to attract all of the attention. We now have to forge ahead and create value in ways other than mining focused speculation. Details to follow shortly..

Coin original supply is one thing of course, but the opportunity for new entrants to acquire holdings introduces new blood and ideas. Revival is difficult without that. A higher % stake is a good way to reward existing holders. There also needs to be a cheap plentiful supply on the market for a while.

Time , and price, will tell which are the dominant features in a CryptoCurrency. There are an immense number of competing coins, and most communities have their own good ideas, but they cannot all win (in fact I would say very few can be winners).

Most coins are for 'Investors' because there are very few real payment applications.

higher % stake does not reward existing holders at all (creates dilution which decreases each units price), it actually screws over everyone who bought in because of rarity (ie knowing the market cap would stay under 1 mil). instantly evaporating any trust.
yes coins do it in panic mode as a bandaid approach to save a coin, but only those who either directly want to bail or honest people with very little real understanding of economics, market dynamics and/or the trustless system btc introduced.



+1  Only reason i'm holding CGB is because of rarity and low interest, it would not make sense otherwise.  I've been into CGB since the early days and have seen it at a wide range of prices and most of what i'm holding has been bought from 120k and under, bulk of it i withdrew and kept in my wallet.  I was able to pick another 200 from recent dumps and i'm sending most of this to my wallet as well for long term holding and staking. 
legendary
Activity: 1876
Merit: 1000
Sadly, the currencies which stuck to their original plans, apart from a tiny handful, just withered away.

The flip side is any divergence from the original plan that alters the total coin supply or the rate in which coins are distributed, defeats the whole trust less system, this is lost on so many panic change quickly or die mentality of the old school coins of late.

I think we are all (altcoins) really grinding through a tough patch as Bitcoin recovers from the recent hostile positions taken against it by government and big business alike. I bet there is a lot of soul searching going on out there.  I know what you mean by the panic driven change, and have taken many opportunities in the past to present a calm and rational view. For us, it is a bit of a unique situation. Very few coins have had to deal with the turbulence of moving beyond the mining phase, which seems to attract all of the attention. We now have to forge ahead and create value in ways other than mining focused speculation. Details to follow shortly..

Coin original supply is one thing of course, but the opportunity for new entrants to acquire holdings introduces new blood and ideas. Revival is difficult without that. A higher % stake is a good way to reward existing holders. There also needs to be a cheap plentiful supply on the market for a while.

Time , and price, will tell which are the dominant features in a CryptoCurrency. There are an immense number of competing coins, and most communities have their own good ideas, but they cannot all win (in fact I would say very few can be winners).

Most coins are for 'Investors' because there are very few real payment applications.

higher % stake does not reward existing holders at all (creates dilution which decreases each units price), it actually screws over everyone who bought in because of rarity (ie knowing the market cap would stay under 1 mil). instantly evaporating any trust.
yes coins do it in panic mode as a bandaid approach to save a coin, but only those who either directly want to bail or honest people with very little real understanding of economics, market dynamics and/or the trustless system btc introduced.

sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
Coinmarkecap, ten minutes ago -- shit!! better score some yacoin!

1    Yacoin   $ 247,599,098,664   $ 0.010699   23,141,537,098,043 YAC   $ 2,625   +107.12 %   
2    Bitcoin   $ 8,253,392,940   $ 641.94   12,857,025 BTC   $ 37,707,282   -2.89 %   
3    Litecoin   $ 319,425,329   $ 11.02   28,992,504 LTC   $ 4,065,819   -3.69 %   
4    Nxt   $ 75,359,537   $ 0.075360   999,997,096 NXT*   $ 678,830   +10.53 %   


Lol, I see that too. Don't buy at the top!!!! Haha, just kidding, of course its a glitch  Grin

papersheepdog, Canada (trying out your sig thing seeing how it goes maybe)
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
Sadly, the currencies which stuck to their original plans, apart from a tiny handful, just withered away.

The flip side is any divergence from the original plan that alters the total coin supply or the rate in which coins are distributed, defeats the whole trust less system, this is lost on so many panic change quickly or die mentality of the old school coins of late.

I think we are all (altcoins) really grinding through a tough patch as Bitcoin recovers from the recent hostile positions taken against it by government and big business alike. I bet there is a lot of soul searching going on out there.  I know what you mean by the panic driven change, and have taken many opportunities in the past to present a calm and rational view. For us, it is a bit of a unique situation. Very few coins have had to deal with the turbulence of moving beyond the mining phase, which seems to attract all of the attention. We now have to forge ahead and create value in ways other than mining focused speculation. Details to follow shortly..

Coin original supply is one thing of course, but the opportunity for new entrants to acquire holdings introduces new blood and ideas. Revival is difficult without that. A higher % stake is a good way to reward existing holders. There also needs to be a cheap plentiful supply on the market for a while.

Time , and price, will tell which are the dominant features in a CryptoCurrency. There are an immense number of competing coins, and most communities have their own good ideas, but they cannot all win (in fact I would say very few can be winners).

Most coins are for 'Investors' because there are very few real payment applications.

You hit the nail right on the head of why new coins seem to attract all of the attention: because this is perceived as the only real way to invest and make money (get in early and get out). However, some day, every coin's mining phase comes to an end. This coin happens to be one of the first coins to have such a relatively short monetary base expansion stage (1 year). This is something we simply have to roll with for a few good reasons. We can say that there are basically 1 million CGB out there and that's pretty much how its going to be (save for 2% inflation). This helps us to easily contrast the known, limited supply, with the current price of 25 cents (USD) each. If we are looking for cheap plentiful supply, we need look no further than the market.

The next reason, I have not gone into a lot of detail about. I want to start by saying how much I appreciate your participation and the opportunity for me to even explore and convey this. It can be said that the development team is really a piece of centralization on top of the currency protocol itself. This is something that the actual users of the currency, including miners, can defend against, if necessary, by rejecting a client update and forking the network to have the majority unchanged and the "new" chain a failure. The danger for most cryptocurencies is one that we can see already as a problem in most communities. The users trust the dev team to make these knee jerk, radical actions to problems, and they are all too caught up in the moment and or unable to actually comprehend the effect of the changed being made, and so allow the change to take hold on the network (by upgrading) even though it can be fundamentally flawed in the long run.

While the above paints a picture, consider it a backdrop for this next possibility. Let's say that, in the future, when adoption is much more mainstream, central banks wish to talk about how intangible, meaningless, and unsound cryptocurrencies are. One of the worst attacks that could be made against CGB would be that it does not really have a limited supply, that the developers can decide to jack the inflation and pump out more coins at any time. If we did it once, we can do it again. This is the really uneasy feeling that I get whenever it is suggested. Moreover, if we engage in "quantitative easing," we will likely just be "kicking the can down the road." While this can of course attract the false economy of the pump and dump scene (which includes of course honest investors), once it is over, we will be right back at this conversation.

BTW, I think you are referencing the slogan (the Investor's Crypto) about all cryptos being for investors. I tend to agree, it might even be putting people off who get that sentiment. We are actually making some progress on this front and will likely need something fresh.

Again thanks for the input, looking forward to more discussion.

papersheepdog, Canada
IMZ
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000
Coinmarkecap, ten minutes ago -- shit!! better score some yacoin!

1    Yacoin   $ 247,599,098,664   $ 0.010699   23,141,537,098,043 YAC   $ 2,625   +107.12 %   
2    Bitcoin   $ 8,253,392,940   $ 641.94   12,857,025 BTC   $ 37,707,282   -2.89 %   
3    Litecoin   $ 319,425,329   $ 11.02   28,992,504 LTC   $ 4,065,819   -3.69 %   
4    Nxt   $ 75,359,537   $ 0.075360   999,997,096 NXT*   $ 678,830   +10.53 %   
legendary
Activity: 2534
Merit: 1129
Sadly, the currencies which stuck to their original plans, apart from a tiny handful, just withered away.

The flip side is any divergence from the original plan that alters the total coin supply or the rate in which coins are distributed, defeats the whole trust less system, this is lost on so many panic change quickly or die mentality of the old school coins of late.

I think we are all (altcoins) really grinding through a tough patch as Bitcoin recovers from the recent hostile positions taken against it by government and big business alike. I bet there is a lot of soul searching going on out there.  I know what you mean by the panic driven change, and have taken many opportunities in the past to present a calm and rational view. For us, it is a bit of a unique situation. Very few coins have had to deal with the turbulence of moving beyond the mining phase, which seems to attract all of the attention. We now have to forge ahead and create value in ways other than mining focused speculation. Details to follow shortly..

Coin original supply is one thing of course, but the opportunity for new entrants to acquire holdings introduces new blood and ideas. Revival is difficult without that. A higher % stake is a good way to reward existing holders. There also needs to be a cheap plentiful supply on the market for a while.

Time , and price, will tell which are the dominant features in a CryptoCurrency. There are an immense number of competing coins, and most communities have their own good ideas, but they cannot all win (in fact I would say very few can be winners).

Most coins are for 'Investors' because there are very few real payment applications.
legendary
Activity: 1535
Merit: 1208
Cryptogenic Bullion is in my book called Cryptocurrency "The Alt-ernative".  Here is first draft of IFC:


https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7131241

Cryptogenic Bullion will look similar to this.  Coin specifications, history, exchanges and other miscellaneous details will be included.  Please help fund the publication of this book which I plan to publish this summer.  

5aagzgPLH9J5nR5KWaizLzdQENcmEVaJVZ


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