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Topic: Historic Cryptogenic Bullion thread - CLOSED - page 28. (Read 286624 times)

sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
Allow me to state my opinion about CB one last time. Please don't get me wrong, I really like the ideas behind CGB (scarcity, exclusivity, etc...); basic idea was RIGHT on. But it really seems like certain computer whizs and certain big egos make poor economists.

Please hear me out this last time, I really would like my CB holding to come back to a decent value.


1) I really do not understand the rational thinking behind CB admins hating mining so much. I have been owning some CGB for a long while, and most reward halving events were met with a price drop (and further loss of interest from community, eg: Memory coin, Dogecoin, etc...). I have seen this in many other Cryptos as well; it turns out reward halving of CGB was poorly designed and I suggest to bring mining back.


2) Now this PoS reward that CGB has, IMO, could easily be doubled, as it is way too low to stir any interest whatsoever, and "doubling" the PoS would still bring CGB nowhere near anything that would affect CB market price negatively.


Main thing however is not to lose track of the basic purpose of a currency: to buy things! I know this one is the hardest to tackle (the other two are just computer variables to adjust and a client update - no big deal), but people have to learn about CB and accept CB for goods and services. The first step in fixing this current undesireable situation is to bring the community back to this coin, by applying the hereby suggested first two steps.


So, I suggest bringing mining rewards back to competitive levels, and raising PoS reward as well; for God's sake bring back some excitement to this coin, it deserves it!

+1

IMO stake reward needs to be 100% pa at least for a year. Can be tapered after that , down to a 'normal'  inflation level after say, 5 years.

So lets say we put PoS to 100%. In one year, everyone has double the number of CGB and the price is half. Shouldn't there be some other mechanism in play here to actually bring new holders into the currency? How does doubling everyone's existing wallet size accomplish this? Simply the value will halve (all other things being equal).

If we were to go the PoW route, even doubling the current reward will not bring it anywhere close to the level of activity seen in the first pumps (which every currency goes through). This would also really tick off anyone who held the line at .001BTC as a volume of almost the entire currency supply changed hands. Do we tell them "sorry your coins are about to be diluted massively?"

This isn't about CGB admins allowing or not allowing something, don't forget that a hard fork has to be supported by the community or it will fall flat on its face. The economics are sound, but as you say, the understanding is limited. Rational discussion rules this ship, and ego has nothing to do with it. From the start this coin has been represented as a digital version of the fundamentals of gold. We cannot create gold out of thin air or mine it any faster than what its fundamentals allow, and therefore it makes little sense to take us drastically off course just to attract the pump and dump scene again. What will we do when this pump is over and we are right back where we started, discussing adding yet another mining phase? It doesn't seem like an actual solution.

CGB's utility will be in its fundamental properties which allow it to act as a more stable store of wealth as compared to other currencies. The fact that the awareness and actual use of cryptocurrencies doesn't yet exist to demand such a coin is the problem. We are actively pursuing real solutions to this by jump starting the use of cryptos such as CGB, on the ground. Real, organic, *USE* is what we can reasonably expect, will create the demand for not only CGB but other cryptos as well. This non-partisan approach is what will allow full cryptosphere participation.

Two things: backup one minute to the very misuderstood concept of inflation in cryptocurrencies.  " In one year, everyone has double the number of CGB and the price is half." this is what I mean by poor economics; Inflation, my fellow cryptocurrency friends, is the outcome of more currency being added than new physical value being created.

We are products of our generation: we are so scared of inflation, having listened to (and misunderstood) Allan Greenspan in our childhoods that we see inflation in places where it isnt. Let's take the hypothesis that CGB's PoS reward goes to 100% (not what I am recommending BTW); IF this 100% PoS suddenly creates a wave of interest for CGB, and naturally more products and services will be added in the CGB economy along the way, then as a result of this the amount of CGB in existence will indeed double AND price will also GO UP (not down).

This is not inflation, as CGB has PLENTY of room to expand in our economy (200 000.$ vs trillions); its when it has no more room to expand while more CGB are created that will trigger inflation (unwanted loss of value or purchasing power of the indivudual unit).

I think, an acceptance has to be made that CGB is not yet failed, but is failing. If we keep things the same way, it will fail; so let's accept the fact that things have to change for success to happen.

Thanks for the clarification VonSpass, and I believe I know exactly what you are saying. This is why I put the qualifier "all other things being equal" in there. What you are getting at is that value has to be created to balance the monetary base expansion or inflation will be felt. This still does not explain how expanding the monetary base will attract newcomers. Buying a coin at the start of its life (and holding) is almost always a losing proposition as your investment is "inflated away" unless boatloads of cash continue to sail in to counter the creation of new units. The wave of interest you are talking about is investors who plan to get in early and dump out before the rest. That's interest, sure, but how does it build lasting value?

We have plenty of room to expand into the economy of course; cryptocurrencies are hardly known and yet badly needed. This expansion is exactly what the CryptoTown project is about. Creating new facets of the economy for CGB to be held in, new demand created through consultancy and advocacy. I am not convinced that printing more money will affect demand except to get the pump and dumpers back in the game for a little while. Change is important; I think we can all agree that adaptation is what will keep the ship afloat.

Sorry for putting you on the spot with my quote, Papersheepdog; I really appreciate your posts, they are always interesting, well phrased and intelligent. It's just that I see this inflation argument (without all other things being equal, mentioned) and I think it is this very fear that in the end will bring CGB down (if nothing is done about it).

What I am saying here is somehow people have to start beleiving in CGB, and investing in it.

Let's face it - the Reddit forum didnt help, the new website didnt help, the bimonthly meetings and updates (sometimes very light in actual content I must say) - all this did nothing to bring CGB up.

I would attack this on two fronts: 1) work hard at adding goods and services you can buy with CGB - and only CGB. these can be virtual (but prized nonetheless) assets. Create an online game, etc...

2) since talk doesnt help, let's bring back miners on board, this will help renew interest for CGB,

I would be interested to explore this option to its fullest. Lets talk PoW target expansion rate and change over time. ie. How long will it last? Let's ignore for now the potential to get our existing community and investors up in arms and try to focus on how this will bring more miners in and what this will do for us. As Killiz mentioned above, the miners would like to make a profit and usually do so by selling what they mine. This mining and selling will certainly bring attention to CGB, how much depends on how extreme the mining incentive is I would imagine.

Note that as soon as we do this we may trigger a race to the bottom where many investors see the incoming inflation and wish to get out and back in at a lower price. The miner who sells last in this environment might be selling at the lowest price. This game of chicken may quickly prove itself true as the first people start selling off. So how do we balance this out? By promoting CGB and having it accepted at multiple places. This is playing the role of a daily currency, which CGB may not do so well at. The idea is price stability for such a coin and its monetary base expansion should be countered by the adoption rate to maintain steady prices. In the case of CGB, however, we may need to totally take it from a "hard asset" into an inflationary coin to do so, assuming we can muster up the demand with the help of the mining frenzy.

The question in my mind would be, why don't we just create the demand? Without monetary base expansion, even the smallest bumps in demand may have a better chance at a real and sustained reflection in the price. Why is it necessary to give out more CGB to miners to accomplish this? I am having difficulty in translating monetary base expansion into adoption. If we can figure out how exactly, step by step, cause and effect, this happens, then we might be able to really consider such an action. We need details.
RJF
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
Online since '89...
Quote
2) since talk doesnt help, let's bring back miners on board, this will help renew interest for CGB,

Also remember this, brick and mortar companies don't change their products on a regular basis because they need changing, they do it to get the product back in the public eye. If you bought an XYZ Widget and XYZ releases a new and improved Widget, you will be more likely to buy another even though it's really the same thing...

It's all in the advertising and the perception of the customer...
legendary
Activity: 894
Merit: 1064
Allow me to state my opinion about CB one last time. Please don't get me wrong, I really like the ideas behind CGB (scarcity, exclusivity, etc...); basic idea was RIGHT on. But it really seems like certain computer whizs and certain big egos make poor economists.

Please hear me out this last time, I really would like my CB holding to come back to a decent value.


1) I really do not understand the rational thinking behind CB admins hating mining so much. I have been owning some CGB for a long while, and most reward halving events were met with a price drop (and further loss of interest from community, eg: Memory coin, Dogecoin, etc...). I have seen this in many other Cryptos as well; it turns out reward halving of CGB was poorly designed and I suggest to bring mining back.


2) Now this PoS reward that CGB has, IMO, could easily be doubled, as it is way too low to stir any interest whatsoever, and "doubling" the PoS would still bring CGB nowhere near anything that would affect CB market price negatively.


Main thing however is not to lose track of the basic purpose of a currency: to buy things! I know this one is the hardest to tackle (the other two are just computer variables to adjust and a client update - no big deal), but people have to learn about CB and accept CB for goods and services. The first step in fixing this current undesireable situation is to bring the community back to this coin, by applying the hereby suggested first two steps.


So, I suggest bringing mining rewards back to competitive levels, and raising PoS reward as well; for God's sake bring back some excitement to this coin, it deserves it!

+1

IMO stake reward needs to be 100% pa at least for a year. Can be tapered after that , down to a 'normal'  inflation level after say, 5 years.

So lets say we put PoS to 100%. In one year, everyone has double the number of CGB and the price is half. Shouldn't there be some other mechanism in play here to actually bring new holders into the currency? How does doubling everyone's existing wallet size accomplish this? Simply the value will halve (all other things being equal).

If we were to go the PoW route, even doubling the current reward will not bring it anywhere close to the level of activity seen in the first pumps (which every currency goes through). This would also really tick off anyone who held the line at .001BTC as a volume of almost the entire currency supply changed hands. Do we tell them "sorry your coins are about to be diluted massively?"

This isn't about CGB admins allowing or not allowing something, don't forget that a hard fork has to be supported by the community or it will fall flat on its face. The economics are sound, but as you say, the understanding is limited. Rational discussion rules this ship, and ego has nothing to do with it. From the start this coin has been represented as a digital version of the fundamentals of gold. We cannot create gold out of thin air or mine it any faster than what its fundamentals allow, and therefore it makes little sense to take us drastically off course just to attract the pump and dump scene again. What will we do when this pump is over and we are right back where we started, discussing adding yet another mining phase? It doesn't seem like an actual solution.

CGB's utility will be in its fundamental properties which allow it to act as a more stable store of wealth as compared to other currencies. The fact that the awareness and actual use of cryptocurrencies doesn't yet exist to demand such a coin is the problem. We are actively pursuing real solutions to this by jump starting the use of cryptos such as CGB, on the ground. Real, organic, *USE* is what we can reasonably expect, will create the demand for not only CGB but other cryptos as well. This non-partisan approach is what will allow full cryptosphere participation.

Two things: backup one minute to the very misuderstood concept of inflation in cryptocurrencies.  " In one year, everyone has double the number of CGB and the price is half." this is what I mean by poor economics; Inflation, my fellow cryptocurrency friends, is the outcome of more currency being added than new physical value being created.

We are products of our generation: we are so scared of inflation, having listened to (and misunderstood) Allan Greenspan in our childhoods that we see inflation in places where it isnt. Let's take the hypothesis that CGB's PoS reward goes to 100% (not what I am recommending BTW); IF this 100% PoS suddenly creates a wave of interest for CGB, and naturally more products and services will be added in the CGB economy along the way, then as a result of this the amount of CGB in existence will indeed double AND price will also GO UP (not down).

This is not inflation, as CGB has PLENTY of room to expand in our economy (200 000.$ vs trillions); its when it has no more room to expand while more CGB are created that will trigger inflation (unwanted loss of value or purchasing power of the indivudual unit).

I think, an acceptance has to be made that CGB is not yet failed, but is failing. If we keep things the same way, it will fail; so let's accept the fact that things have to change for success to happen.

Thanks for the clarification VonSpass, and I believe I know exactly what you are saying. This is why I put the qualifier "all other things being equal" in there. What you are getting at is that value has to be created to balance the monetary base expansion or inflation will be felt. This still does not explain how expanding the monetary base will attract newcomers. Buying a coin at the start of its life (and holding) is almost always a losing proposition as your investment is "inflated away" unless boatloads of cash continue to sail in to counter the creation of new units. The wave of interest you are talking about is investors who plan to get in early and dump out before the rest. That's interest, sure, but how does it build lasting value?

We have plenty of room to expand into the economy of course; cryptocurrencies are hardly known and yet badly needed. This expansion is exactly what the CryptoTown project is about. Creating new facets of the economy for CGB to be held in, new demand created through consultancy and advocacy. I am not convinced that printing more money will affect demand except to get the pump and dumpers back in the game for a little while. Change is important; I think we can all agree that adaptation is what will keep the ship afloat.

Sorry for putting you on the spot with my quote, Papersheepdog; I really appreciate your posts, they are always interesting, well phrased and intelligent. It's just that I see this inflation argument (without all other things being equal, mentioned) and I think it is this very fear that in the end will bring CGB down (if nothing is done about it).

What I am saying here is somehow people have to start beleiving in CGB, and investing in it.

Let's face it - the Reddit forum didnt help, the new website didnt help, the bimonthly meetings and updates (sometimes very light in actual content I must say) - all this did nothing to bring CGB up.

I would attack this on two fronts: 1) work hard at adding goods and services you can buy with CGB - and only CGB. these can be virtual (but prized nonetheless) assets. Create an online game, etc...

2) since talk doesnt help, let's bring back miners on board, this will help renew interest for CGB,
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
As a small time miner, and a long time CGB holder, I recently came to a personal belief as to why the value of older (!) crypto currencies are so low, CGB included.

While we have an initial large payout to get miners interested and secure the currency, the buzz and rewards function as incentive to keep the currency alive. Granted, many alts have been launched and died within a week for various different reasons; secret premining, Pump&Dump, non-innovative me-too coin™ etc

As the block reward is higher, the miners will show a larger incentive to mine the coin. This interest decreases with the block rewards and the miners will jump on the next new coin™ With these reduced block rewards, practically every altcoin from one year ago has had a great decline in value, or am I mistaken? It appears to be the larger block rewards that keep the coin going, paying the miners to stay with the coin.

Now the mining phase is practically ended for CGB and we are hoping that investors will take an interest in CGB as a stable and secure investment. The question is why should they do so? If I as an investor would place money in one or more crypto currencies, would I not choose a currency with a better track record, or something that has features that Bitcoin seems to lack? One of the main features I liked about CGB was its proof of stake. The PoS part of CGB is not a unique feature anymore in the cryptocoin scene, and there are even many 100% PoS coins out there now.

I guess where I’m going with this is the fact that the PoS alone does not seem to attract new investors as we all are hoping for. The price is now lower than what it was just after launch, so there is all the incentive for someone to scope up a big bag of CGB for cheaps. The price decline for the past 6 months has not proven to be a stable wealth builder like a traditional interest fund or the likes.

I am not planning to sell off my investment; I still believe and hope that CGB will show its strengths, but at this point I would not put my money in CGB as a new investment. Even though that there are many new exciting ideas going ahead in our community, wouldn't any cautious investor just look at the price development for the past while and place their money elsewhere?

Perhaps we should look back at what gave CGB its initial boost among miners and the community, why was the perceived value of CGB so much higher then, compared to its stable phase now? Are changes needed? Does CGB need the mining help to bring back its values from the 5 mBTC days?

If we are not planning on any changes on CGB itself, than we should be open to ideas like merge mining, altpool investing in CGB and use the strengths within the mining community to help us build a stronger CGB!

+1


Great post.

What we need is a renewed vibrance within the community. The one thing CGB is lacking is an active community. An active community is the strength of any particular coin.

The miners have left the scene, but what do the majority of miners do? They sell. What we need to do is to educate these miners, who are knowingly mining a longterm worthless coin, only because it is profitable at that moment in time, to put some of their profits into CGB as an investment.

The POS reward mustn't be increased above 2%, I agree with myself and  PSD about that Smiley It should be looked at as merely a POS security which only adds 2% max inflation, nothing more. Less is more!

I keep reading how CGB needs more services. Do holders of physical bullion demand this? CGB is digital bullion, and should be treated as such. Simply a store of wealth, to be exchanged for a more widely accepted currency as and when needed in the future.

Great point about physical bullion holders! It's simply something you hold. Throw it on a paper wallet and physically secure it. If you want interest, take it out every now and then and cash in. While I would love to see more services, its not realistic for us right now because as you noted, the community is not as active as this coin deserves. Once it picks up, we have a focused direction on the features and services which would complement CGB very well in this role. Our strategy for awareness is to take the cryptosphere by its horns and start leading us toward actual adoption - the next big phase. Regarding miners, its a tricky profit motive which is hard to change. Education will help, but these people are going to need to see the momentum built and rolling before they start salivating again.
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
Allow me to state my opinion about CB one last time. Please don't get me wrong, I really like the ideas behind CGB (scarcity, exclusivity, etc...); basic idea was RIGHT on. But it really seems like certain computer whizs and certain big egos make poor economists.

Please hear me out this last time, I really would like my CB holding to come back to a decent value.


1) I really do not understand the rational thinking behind CB admins hating mining so much. I have been owning some CGB for a long while, and most reward halving events were met with a price drop (and further loss of interest from community, eg: Memory coin, Dogecoin, etc...). I have seen this in many other Cryptos as well; it turns out reward halving of CGB was poorly designed and I suggest to bring mining back.


2) Now this PoS reward that CGB has, IMO, could easily be doubled, as it is way too low to stir any interest whatsoever, and "doubling" the PoS would still bring CGB nowhere near anything that would affect CB market price negatively.


Main thing however is not to lose track of the basic purpose of a currency: to buy things! I know this one is the hardest to tackle (the other two are just computer variables to adjust and a client update - no big deal), but people have to learn about CB and accept CB for goods and services. The first step in fixing this current undesireable situation is to bring the community back to this coin, by applying the hereby suggested first two steps.


So, I suggest bringing mining rewards back to competitive levels, and raising PoS reward as well; for God's sake bring back some excitement to this coin, it deserves it!

+1

IMO stake reward needs to be 100% pa at least for a year. Can be tapered after that , down to a 'normal'  inflation level after say, 5 years.

So lets say we put PoS to 100%. In one year, everyone has double the number of CGB and the price is half. Shouldn't there be some other mechanism in play here to actually bring new holders into the currency? How does doubling everyone's existing wallet size accomplish this? Simply the value will halve (all other things being equal).

If we were to go the PoW route, even doubling the current reward will not bring it anywhere close to the level of activity seen in the first pumps (which every currency goes through). This would also really tick off anyone who held the line at .001BTC as a volume of almost the entire currency supply changed hands. Do we tell them "sorry your coins are about to be diluted massively?"

This isn't about CGB admins allowing or not allowing something, don't forget that a hard fork has to be supported by the community or it will fall flat on its face. The economics are sound, but as you say, the understanding is limited. Rational discussion rules this ship, and ego has nothing to do with it. From the start this coin has been represented as a digital version of the fundamentals of gold. We cannot create gold out of thin air or mine it any faster than what its fundamentals allow, and therefore it makes little sense to take us drastically off course just to attract the pump and dump scene again. What will we do when this pump is over and we are right back where we started, discussing adding yet another mining phase? It doesn't seem like an actual solution.

CGB's utility will be in its fundamental properties which allow it to act as a more stable store of wealth as compared to other currencies. The fact that the awareness and actual use of cryptocurrencies doesn't yet exist to demand such a coin is the problem. We are actively pursuing real solutions to this by jump starting the use of cryptos such as CGB, on the ground. Real, organic, *USE* is what we can reasonably expect, will create the demand for not only CGB but other cryptos as well. This non-partisan approach is what will allow full cryptosphere participation.

Two things: backup one minute to the very misuderstood concept of inflation in cryptocurrencies.  " In one year, everyone has double the number of CGB and the price is half." this is what I mean by poor economics; Inflation, my fellow cryptocurrency friends, is the outcome of more currency being added than new physical value being created.

We are products of our generation: we are so scared of inflation, having listened to (and misunderstood) Allan Greenspan in our childhoods that we see inflation in places where it isnt. Let's take the hypothesis that CGB's PoS reward goes to 100% (not what I am recommending BTW); IF this 100% PoS suddenly creates a wave of interest for CGB, and naturally more products and services will be added in the CGB economy along the way, then as a result of this the amount of CGB in existence will indeed double AND price will also GO UP (not down).

This is not inflation, as CGB has PLENTY of room to expand in our economy (200 000.$ vs trillions); its when it has no more room to expand while more CGB are created that will trigger inflation (unwanted loss of value or purchasing power of the indivudual unit).

I think, an acceptance has to be made that CGB is not yet failed, but is failing. If we keep things the same way, it will fail; so let's accept the fact that things have to change for success to happen.

Thanks for the clarification VonSpass, and I believe I know exactly what you are saying. This is why I put the qualifier "all other things being equal" in there. What you are getting at is that value has to be created to balance the monetary base expansion or inflation will be felt. This still does not explain how expanding the monetary base will attract newcomers. Buying a coin at the start of its life (and holding) is almost always a losing proposition as your investment is "inflated away" unless boatloads of cash continue to sail in to counter the creation of new units. The wave of interest you are talking about is investors who plan to get in early and dump out before the rest. That's interest, sure, but how does it build lasting value?

We have plenty of room to expand into the economy of course; cryptocurrencies are hardly known and yet badly needed. This expansion is exactly what the CryptoTown project is about. Creating new facets of the economy for CGB to be held in, new demand created through consultancy and advocacy. I am not convinced that printing more money will affect demand except to get the pump and dumpers back in the game for a little while. Change is important; I think we can all agree that adaptation is what will keep the ship afloat.
hero member
Activity: 750
Merit: 503
As a small time miner, and a long time CGB holder, I recently came to a personal belief as to why the value of older (!) crypto currencies are so low, CGB included.

While we have an initial large payout to get miners interested and secure the currency, the buzz and rewards function as incentive to keep the currency alive. Granted, many alts have been launched and died within a week for various different reasons; secret premining, Pump&Dump, non-innovative me-too coin™ etc

As the block reward is higher, the miners will show a larger incentive to mine the coin. This interest decreases with the block rewards and the miners will jump on the next new coin™ With these reduced block rewards, practically every altcoin from one year ago has had a great decline in value, or am I mistaken? It appears to be the larger block rewards that keep the coin going, paying the miners to stay with the coin.

Now the mining phase is practically ended for CGB and we are hoping that investors will take an interest in CGB as a stable and secure investment. The question is why should they do so? If I as an investor would place money in one or more crypto currencies, would I not choose a currency with a better track record, or something that has features that Bitcoin seems to lack? One of the main features I liked about CGB was its proof of stake. The PoS part of CGB is not a unique feature anymore in the cryptocoin scene, and there are even many 100% PoS coins out there now.

I guess where I’m going with this is the fact that the PoS alone does not seem to attract new investors as we all are hoping for. The price is now lower than what it was just after launch, so there is all the incentive for someone to scope up a big bag of CGB for cheaps. The price decline for the past 6 months has not proven to be a stable wealth builder like a traditional interest fund or the likes.

I am not planning to sell off my investment; I still believe and hope that CGB will show its strengths, but at this point I would not put my money in CGB as a new investment. Even though that there are many new exciting ideas going ahead in our community, wouldn't any cautious investor just look at the price development for the past while and place their money elsewhere?

Perhaps we should look back at what gave CGB its initial boost among miners and the community, why was the perceived value of CGB so much higher then, compared to its stable phase now? Are changes needed? Does CGB need the mining help to bring back its values from the 5 mBTC days?

If we are not planning on any changes on CGB itself, than we should be open to ideas like merge mining, altpool investing in CGB and use the strengths within the mining community to help us build a stronger CGB!

+1


Great post.

What we need is a renewed vibrance within the community. The one thing CGB is lacking is an active community. An active community is the strength of any particular coin.

The miners have left the scene, but what do the majority of miners do? They sell. What we need to do is to educate these miners, who are knowingly mining a longterm worthless coin, only because it is profitable at that moment in time, to put some of their profits into CGB as an investment.

The POS reward mustn't be increased above 2%, I agree with myself and  PSD about that Smiley It should be looked at as merely a POS security which only adds 2% max inflation, nothing more. Less is more!

I keep reading how CGB needs more services. Do holders of physical bullion demand this? CGB is digital bullion, and should be treated as such. Simply a store of wealth, to be exchanged for a more widely accepted currency as and when needed in the future.
legendary
Activity: 894
Merit: 1064
Allow me to state my opinion about CB one last time. Please don't get me wrong, I really like the ideas behind CGB (scarcity, exclusivity, etc...); basic idea was RIGHT on. But it really seems like certain computer whizs and certain big egos make poor economists.

Please hear me out this last time, I really would like my CB holding to come back to a decent value.


1) I really do not understand the rational thinking behind CB admins hating mining so much. I have been owning some CGB for a long while, and most reward halving events were met with a price drop (and further loss of interest from community, eg: Memory coin, Dogecoin, etc...). I have seen this in many other Cryptos as well; it turns out reward halving of CGB was poorly designed and I suggest to bring mining back.


2) Now this PoS reward that CGB has, IMO, could easily be doubled, as it is way too low to stir any interest whatsoever, and "doubling" the PoS would still bring CGB nowhere near anything that would affect CB market price negatively.


Main thing however is not to lose track of the basic purpose of a currency: to buy things! I know this one is the hardest to tackle (the other two are just computer variables to adjust and a client update - no big deal), but people have to learn about CB and accept CB for goods and services. The first step in fixing this current undesireable situation is to bring the community back to this coin, by applying the hereby suggested first two steps.


So, I suggest bringing mining rewards back to competitive levels, and raising PoS reward as well; for God's sake bring back some excitement to this coin, it deserves it!

+1

IMO stake reward needs to be 100% pa at least for a year. Can be tapered after that , down to a 'normal'  inflation level after say, 5 years.

So lets say we put PoS to 100%. In one year, everyone has double the number of CGB and the price is half. Shouldn't there be some other mechanism in play here to actually bring new holders into the currency? How does doubling everyone's existing wallet size accomplish this? Simply the value will halve (all other things being equal).

If we were to go the PoW route, even doubling the current reward will not bring it anywhere close to the level of activity seen in the first pumps (which every currency goes through). This would also really tick off anyone who held the line at .001BTC as a volume of almost the entire currency supply changed hands. Do we tell them "sorry your coins are about to be diluted massively?"

This isn't about CGB admins allowing or not allowing something, don't forget that a hard fork has to be supported by the community or it will fall flat on its face. The economics are sound, but as you say, the understanding is limited. Rational discussion rules this ship, and ego has nothing to do with it. From the start this coin has been represented as a digital version of the fundamentals of gold. We cannot create gold out of thin air or mine it any faster than what its fundamentals allow, and therefore it makes little sense to take us drastically off course just to attract the pump and dump scene again. What will we do when this pump is over and we are right back where we started, discussing adding yet another mining phase? It doesn't seem like an actual solution.

CGB's utility will be in its fundamental properties which allow it to act as a more stable store of wealth as compared to other currencies. The fact that the awareness and actual use of cryptocurrencies doesn't yet exist to demand such a coin is the problem. We are actively pursuing real solutions to this by jump starting the use of cryptos such as CGB, on the ground. Real, organic, *USE* is what we can reasonably expect, will create the demand for not only CGB but other cryptos as well. This non-partisan approach is what will allow full cryptosphere participation.

Two things: backup one minute to the very misuderstood concept of inflation in cryptocurrencies.  " In one year, everyone has double the number of CGB and the price is half." this is what I mean by poor economics; Inflation, my fellow cryptocurrency friends, is the outcome of more currency being added than new physical value being created.

We are products of our generation: we are so scared of inflation, having listened to (and misunderstood) Allan Greenspan in our childhoods that we see inflation in places where it isnt. Let's take the hypothesis that CGB's PoS reward goes to 100% (not what I am recommending BTW); IF this 100% PoS suddenly creates a wave of interest for CGB, and naturally more products and services will be added in the CGB economy along the way, then as a result of this the amount of CGB in existence will indeed double AND price will also GO UP (not down).

This is not inflation, as CGB has PLENTY of room to expand in our economy (200 000.$ vs trillions); its when it has no more room to expand while more CGB are created that will trigger inflation (unwanted loss of value or purchasing power of the indivudual unit).

I think, an acceptance has to be made that CGB is not yet failed, but is failing. If we keep things the same way, it will fail; so let's accept the fact that things have to change for success to happen.
hero member
Activity: 750
Merit: 503
Hey, Killiz!

Feel free to laugh out loud: I doubt I'll be able to manage photos or vids for a while. I live in a farm house so far out in the Australian bush that I can see an emu out the window right now. And I am vision-impaired. And I get only a trickle of Internet. Can't figure out how to load a photo on this site.

Mark, Australia



Lol I can just picture you now all tangled up in a ball of antena cable, with an aeriel held up in an outstretched hand, furiously clicking a refresh button with the other, while an emu curiously peers at you through the window with one beady eye and a cocked head.

Sounds just like the life I often dream dream of Cheesy

Perhaps we can best support Artiface by assuring him that we can use well the time until he is truly ready to return: 'lead-dev burnout' is setting in about the place. The present wallet will do for the present -- it must.

Woo hoo!!! Wanna climb to a New Plane, campers??? Start compiling a Directory!!

" Stainless-Steel Mosquito-Coil Holders
Crochead Pty Ltd
http://crochead.myshopify.com/
255 Aumuller St., Westcourt (Cairns)
04 01532237
[status verified]

Turf:
Lush Turf Solutions
http://www.lushturfsolutions.com.au/
9/1440 New Cleveland Road, Capalaba West, Brisbane
+61 7 3390 2551 with 0 or not???
[Status unverified]

Underwear:
# UndieGuys
http://www.undieguys.com.au
addresss???
phone???
[Status unverified]"


You could even build a local or a state one -- whatever: wow!!! what a way to get in touch with the crypto folk who are our consultancy's customers.

PSD: 'the next big leg up'? Expedia? Google and Yahoo stock tickers? a trial at the Holiday Inn? the end of The China Thing well in sight?

Mark Blair, Unicup, Western Australia

What you are doing Mark is fantastic, total 'nutz and boltz' aproach to introducing cryptos to folk who otherwise could be years behind the revolution.  Totally inspiring to see someone up to their armpits in elbow grease, pushing their passion beyond the screen and into the scene.

Maybe someone could throw together some flyers or posters we could each print off to hand out, hammer up and letterbox??  

Killiz,  England UK

Edit: Mark, get some snaps and vids if possible of what you are achieving with the crypto town project. Would really like to see the progress as it happens.

Good to hear from ya Killiz!! I am a huge fan of flyers and other printouts like brochure and business card sized stuff. What will go on it? We have to get creative!

Hey, Killiz!

Feel free to laugh out loud: I doubt I'll be able to manage photos or vids for a while. I live in a farm house so far out in the Australian bush that I can see an emu out the window right now. And I am vision-impaired. And I get only a trickle of Internet. Can't figure out how to load a photo on this site.

Mark, Australia

We will make do with what we have! This proves that only a minimal amount of internet connectivity is even required to get this stuff done! Cheesy

Hey PSD Smiley

About the flyers, I've no clue where to start with what to put on them, maybe just some basic info about cryptos, some addresses to sites of interest, a menu, some pictures of pizzas and Chinese food...........hmm..... hold on a minute, I would chip in a bit of my hard earned Fiat, or maybe a few crypto coins to a takeaway, to go towards their menu costs, in exchange to have a website address added as advertisement on a takeaway menu, aaand have it delivered for me. Introducing the takeaway owner to cryptos at the same time. Two emu's and only one stone!

sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
By the way this is all some really interesting discussion guys! Awesome input from all.

I totally agree that we could modernize the client. I wish there was more that we could do about that. Merge mining and coin control - top of the list in my opinion right behind the Pow/PoS balance adjustments.

I think you will all be pleasantly surprised at what kind of attention we will be able to bring with our new efforts and CGB's bday coming up. We are going to capitalize big time!
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
Allow me to state my opinion about CB one last time. Please don't get me wrong, I really like the ideas behind CGB (scarcity, exclusivity, etc...); basic idea was RIGHT on. But it really seems like certain computer whizs and certain big egos make poor economists.

Please hear me out this last time, I really would like my CB holding to come back to a decent value.


1) I really do not understand the rational thinking behind CB admins hating mining so much. I have been owning some CGB for a long while, and most reward halving events were met with a price drop (and further loss of interest from community, eg: Memory coin, Dogecoin, etc...). I have seen this in many other Cryptos as well; it turns out reward halving of CGB was poorly designed and I suggest to bring mining back.


2) Now this PoS reward that CGB has, IMO, could easily be doubled, as it is way too low to stir any interest whatsoever, and "doubling" the PoS would still bring CGB nowhere near anything that would affect CB market price negatively.


Main thing however is not to lose track of the basic purpose of a currency: to buy things! I know this one is the hardest to tackle (the other two are just computer variables to adjust and a client update - no big deal), but people have to learn about CB and accept CB for goods and services. The first step in fixing this current undesireable situation is to bring the community back to this coin, by applying the hereby suggested first two steps.


So, I suggest bringing mining rewards back to competitive levels, and raising PoS reward as well; for God's sake bring back some excitement to this coin, it deserves it!

+1

IMO stake reward needs to be 100% pa at least for a year. Can be tapered after that , down to a 'normal'  inflation level after say, 5 years.

So lets say we put PoS to 100%. In one year, everyone has double the number of CGB and the price is half. Shouldn't there be some other mechanism in play here to actually bring new holders into the currency? How does doubling everyone's existing wallet size accomplish this? Simply the value will halve (all other things being equal).

If we were to go the PoW route, even doubling the current reward will not bring it anywhere close to the level of activity seen in the first pumps (which every currency goes through). This would also really tick off anyone who held the line at .001BTC as a volume of almost the entire currency supply changed hands. Do we tell them "sorry your coins are about to be diluted massively?"

This isn't about CGB admins allowing or not allowing something, don't forget that a hard fork has to be supported by the community or it will fall flat on its face. The economics are sound, but as you say, the understanding is limited. Rational discussion rules this ship, and ego has nothing to do with it. From the start this coin has been represented as a digital version of the fundamentals of gold. We cannot create gold out of thin air or mine it any faster than what its fundamentals allow, and therefore it makes little sense to take us drastically off course just to attract the pump and dump scene again. What will we do when this pump is over and we are right back where we started, discussing adding yet another mining phase? It doesn't seem like an actual solution.

CGB's utility will be in its fundamental properties which allow it to act as a more stable store of wealth as compared to other currencies. The fact that the awareness and actual use of cryptocurrencies doesn't yet exist to demand such a coin is the problem. We are actively pursuing real solutions to this by jump starting the use of cryptos such as CGB, on the ground. Real, organic, *USE* is what we can reasonably expect, will create the demand for not only CGB but other cryptos as well. This non-partisan approach is what will allow full cryptosphere participation.
sr. member
Activity: 346
Merit: 255
Quote

I think there never been a better time to invest in and hold CGB for long term, and it obvious to me that others manipulating the price down think so as well Wink


If you want a look at the future of stable Alt Coins, read this:

https://www.rapidcx.com/blog/pantera-bitcoin-fund-sec-filing-reveals-96-million-investment

I think CGB is positioned well for this kind of thing, just what it was designed for. Can you imagine an ETF made up of coins all earning interest through some form of PoS? It's time to clean up and be professional...   Smiley

(posted in several forums)

It would be nice if large investment organisations poured millions of dollars into CGB  Shocked
RJF
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
Online since '89...
Quote

I think there never been a better time to invest in and hold CGB for long term, and it obvious to me that others manipulating the price down think so as well Wink


If you want a look at the future of stable Alt Coins, read this:

https://www.rapidcx.com/blog/pantera-bitcoin-fund-sec-filing-reveals-96-million-investment

I think CGB is positioned well for this kind of thing, just what it was designed for. Can you imagine an ETF made up of coins all earning interest through some form of PoS? It's time to clean up and be professional...   Smiley

(posted in several forums)
legendary
Activity: 1672
Merit: 1014
As a small time miner, and a long time CGB holder, I recently came to a personal belief as to why the value of older (!) crypto currencies are so low, CGB included.

While we have an initial large payout to get miners interested and secure the currency, the buzz and rewards function as incentive to keep the currency alive. Granted, many alts have been launched and died within a week for various different reasons; secret premining, Pump&Dump, non-innovative me-too coin™ etc

As the block reward is higher, the miners will show a larger incentive to mine the coin. This interest decreases with the block rewards and the miners will jump on the next new coin™ With these reduced block rewards, practically every altcoin from one year ago has had a great decline in value, or am I mistaken? It appears to be the larger block rewards that keep the coin going, paying the miners to stay with the coin.

Now the mining phase is practically ended for CGB and we are hoping that investors will take an interest in CGB as a stable and secure investment. The question is why should they do so? If I as an investor would place money in one or more crypto currencies, would I not choose a currency with a better track record, or something that has features that Bitcoin seems to lack? One of the main features I liked about CGB was its proof of stake. The PoS part of CGB is not a unique feature anymore in the cryptocoin scene, and there are even many 100% PoS coins out there now.

I guess where I’m going with this is the fact that the PoS alone does not seem to attract new investors as we all are hoping for. The price is now lower than what it was just after launch, so there is all the incentive for someone to scope up a big bag of CGB for cheaps. The price decline for the past 6 months has not proven to be a stable wealth builder like a traditional interest fund or the likes.

I am not planning to sell off my investment; I still believe and hope that CGB will show its strengths, but at this point I would not put my money in CGB as a new investment. Even though that there are many new exciting ideas going ahead in our community, wouldn't any cautious investor just look at the price development for the past while and place their money elsewhere?

Perhaps we should look back at what gave CGB its initial boost among miners and the community, why was the perceived value of CGB so much higher then, compared to its stable phase now? Are changes needed? Does CGB need the mining help to bring back its values from the 5 mBTC days?

If we are not planning on any changes on CGB itself, than we should be open to ideas like merge mining, altpool investing in CGB and use the strengths within the mining community to help us build a stronger CGB!

imho 100% PoS coin is a weakness if it has not been thought out properly by the developer/releaser. CGB does not have to be concerned about lack of PoS Miners/stakerholders now as PoW never ends.  The 2 stage PoW/100% PoS coin will ALWAYS need its stakeholders to keep the blockchain going or that coin is dead, stuck in wallets/exchanges.
If the majority 100% PoS coin is all lumped on to an exchange or its supporters fail to understand how their coin works, then the result is few are left to support the network and the coin will lose support and die. Confirmation times for a transaction will stretch out to days or longer in many of these coins that lose that network support.  BUK is an example of 100% PoS where this has happened this year and i have seen it take days in the past before a tx completely confirmed with this forgotten about coin.  This can happen to any 100% PoS coin and there are many scammers using PoS as a buzzword for their scamcoins and preying on users who do not even take the time to learn how it works.  These users are not investors just chasing the latest "#altcoin"  or "#feature" without doing any research.  Exchanges keep adding them to milk the easy BTC that they get from them thanks to scammers/pump&dump groups, but none of them have any chance of mainstream success.  Just a quick way to make some bitcoin before moving on.  Eventually the smarter traders will see the value in securing some of that wealth they have obtained in CGB, for now its just a game they play.

There are few examples of 100% PoS coins that be considered a success this year eg BC.  From the specs when it was first annouced it could be seen the devs put some thought into it and how it would function. most of clones of that coin completely skipped it and show their ignorance (or their intent to scam) with the specifications and no real dev behind them.  a few even had hidden nasties (hidden premine) that would make the coin worthless after the scammers had dumped their premine and left their users holding bags of a useless coin and a blockchain that will stall and be irregular.  

The advantage of CGB a hybrid coin PoW/PoS is it will never face this situation, as it would require there to be no PoW miners (no profit switching multipools to dump on cryptsy, no solo usb miners on a laptp somewhere etc) and no PoS Miners/stakeholder (once a month wallet openers, or always open stakeholders, exchanges).  
CGB backbone is its PoW mining and keeps it regular, and PoS provides incentive to invest and hold for interest/increase in CGB holdings.  This is what can be seen as implied in specifications for min stake age (days vs hours in the 100% PoS) the blockchain is not dependent on stakeholders/PoS miners. With cheaper ASICs the CGB blockchain can be more secured and kept moving cheaply along with the benefits of PoS.  There is no other altcoin that has this advantages right now along with real devs behind it.

Merge mining seems to be a more elegant way to some extra hash and secure CGB blockchain more and increase awareness among altcoiners of CGB.  Maybe it will something that gets added in the future? Smiley
I would also like to see coincontrol added so i can managed my CGBs better.


I think there never been a better time to invest in and hold CGB for long term, and it obvious to me that others manipulating the price down think so as well Wink
legendary
Activity: 1449
Merit: 1001
The price is now lower than what it was just after launch....

Perhaps if you compare to BTC price but in USD, CGB is still higher than in the first months since BTC was only $75-$150 at that time. I've seen total marketcap of US$80,000 while now it's around US$200,000 with so many more coins minted. The market has to eat all these newly minted coins and build from there. I believe CGB is a big buying opportunity and I'm still adding small extra amounts whenever I have some available from other sources to improve my average buyingprice.

Comparing to the USD market makes it seem as a good investment(compared to mainstream investments)  but anyone willing to invest in the more risky cryptocurrencies  will always compare it to BTC which is the  closest thing to mainstream in that world.
legendary
Activity: 2534
Merit: 1129
The price is now lower than what it was just after launch....

Perhaps if you compare to BTC price but in USD, CGB is still higher than in the first months since BTC was only $75-$150 at that time. I've seen total marketcap of US$80,000 while now it's around US$200,000 with so many more coins minted. The market has to eat all these newly minted coins and build from there. I believe CGB is a big buying opportunity and I'm still adding small extra amounts whenever I have some available from other sources to improve my average buyingprice.

Whilst it may seem a good investment opportunity, there are dozens more coins with the same or better potential which are also languishing at low price levels (there are also hundreds more with less potential).

The key question is:  What unique points will drive adoption (the trend is down at present, and the Newtonian default is to stay the same) and keep CGB amongst the very few survivors: ie save it from the 99% of coins which fade away, despite having great fundamentals.
legendary
Activity: 1960
Merit: 1010
The price is now lower than what it was just after launch....

Perhaps if you compare to BTC price but in USD, CGB is still higher than in the first months since BTC was only $75-$150 at that time. I've seen total marketcap of US$80,000 while now it's around US$200,000 with so many more coins minted. The market has to eat all these newly minted coins and build from there. I believe CGB is a big buying opportunity and I'm still adding small extra amounts whenever I have some available from other sources to improve my average buyingprice.
legendary
Activity: 1382
Merit: 1002
As a small time miner, and a long time CGB holder, I recently came to a personal belief as to why the value of older (!) crypto currencies are so low, CGB included.

While we have an initial large payout to get miners interested and secure the currency, the buzz and rewards function as incentive to keep the currency alive. Granted, many alts have been launched and died within a week for various different reasons; secret premining, Pump&Dump, non-innovative me-too coin™ etc

As the block reward is higher, the miners will show a larger incentive to mine the coin. This interest decreases with the block rewards and the miners will jump on the next new coin™ With these reduced block rewards, practically every altcoin from one year ago has had a great decline in value, or am I mistaken? It appears to be the larger block rewards that keep the coin going, paying the miners to stay with the coin.

Now the mining phase is practically ended for CGB and we are hoping that investors will take an interest in CGB as a stable and secure investment. The question is why should they do so? If I as an investor would place money in one or more crypto currencies, would I not choose a currency with a better track record, or something that has features that Bitcoin seems to lack? One of the main features I liked about CGB was its proof of stake. The PoS part of CGB is not a unique feature anymore in the cryptocoin scene, and there are even many 100% PoS coins out there now.

I guess where I’m going with this is the fact that the PoS alone does not seem to attract new investors as we all are hoping for. The price is now lower than what it was just after launch, so there is all the incentive for someone to scope up a big bag of CGB for cheaps. The price decline for the past 6 months has not proven to be a stable wealth builder like a traditional interest fund or the likes.

I am not planning to sell off my investment; I still believe and hope that CGB will show its strengths, but at this point I would not put my money in CGB as a new investment. Even though that there are many new exciting ideas going ahead in our community, wouldn't any cautious investor just look at the price development for the past while and place their money elsewhere?

Perhaps we should look back at what gave CGB its initial boost among miners and the community, why was the perceived value of CGB so much higher then, compared to its stable phase now? Are changes needed? Does CGB need the mining help to bring back its values from the 5 mBTC days?

If we are not planning on any changes on CGB itself, than we should be open to ideas like merge mining, altpool investing in CGB and use the strengths within the mining community to help us build a stronger CGB!
legendary
Activity: 2534
Merit: 1129
Allow me to state my opinion about CB one last time. Please don't get me wrong, I really like the ideas behind CGB (scarcity, exclusivity, etc...); basic idea was RIGHT on. But it really seems like certain computer whizs and certain big egos make poor economists.

Please hear me out this last time, I really would like my CB holding to come back to a decent value.


1) I really do not understand the rational thinking behind CB admins hating mining so much. I have been owning some CGB for a long while, and most reward halving events were met with a price drop (and further loss of interest from community, eg: Memory coin, Dogecoin, etc...). I have seen this in many other Cryptos as well; it turns out reward halving of CGB was poorly designed and I suggest to bring mining back.


2) Now this PoS reward that CGB has, IMO, could easily be doubled, as it is way too low to stir any interest whatsoever, and "doubling" the PoS would still bring CGB nowhere near anything that would affect CB market price negatively.


Main thing however is not to lose track of the basic purpose of a currency: to buy things! I know this one is the hardest to tackle (the other two are just computer variables to adjust and a client update - no big deal), but people have to learn about CB and accept CB for goods and services. The first step in fixing this current undesireable situation is to bring the community back to this coin, by applying the hereby suggested first two steps.


So, I suggest bringing mining rewards back to competitive levels, and raising PoS reward as well; for God's sake bring back some excitement to this coin, it deserves it!

+1

IMO stake reward needs to be 100% pa at least for a year. Can be tapered after that , down to a 'normal'  inflation level after say, 5 years.
legendary
Activity: 894
Merit: 1064
Allow me to state my opinion about CB one last time. Please don't get me wrong, I really like the ideas behind CGB (scarcity, exclusivity, etc...); basic idea was RIGHT on. But it really seems like certain computer whizs and certain big egos make poor economists.

Please hear me out this last time, I really would like my CB holding to come back to a decent value.


1) I really do not understand the rational thinking behind CB admins hating mining so much. I have been owning some CGB for a long while, and most reward halving events were met with a price drop (and further loss of interest from community, eg: Memory coin, Dogecoin, etc...). I have seen this in many other Cryptos as well; it turns out reward halving of CGB was poorly designed and I suggest to bring mining back.


2) Now this PoS reward that CGB has, IMO, could easily be doubled, as it is way too low to stir any interest whatsoever, and "doubling" the PoS would still bring CGB nowhere near anything that would affect CB market price negatively.


Main thing however is not to lose track of the basic purpose of a currency: to buy things! I know this one is the hardest to tackle (the other two are just computer variables to adjust and a client update - no big deal), but people have to learn about CB and accept CB for goods and services. The first step in fixing this current undesireable situation is to bring the community back to this coin, by applying the hereby suggested first two steps.


So, I suggest bringing mining rewards back to competitive levels, and raising PoS reward as well; for God's sake bring back some excitement to this coin, it deserves it!
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
Perhaps we can best support Artiface by assuring him that we can use well the time until he is truly ready to return: 'lead-dev burnout' is setting in about the place. The present wallet will do for the present -- it must.

Woo hoo!!! Wanna climb to a New Plane, campers??? Start compiling a Directory!!

" Stainless-Steel Mosquito-Coil Holders
Crochead Pty Ltd
http://crochead.myshopify.com/
255 Aumuller St., Westcourt (Cairns)
04 01532237
[status verified]

Turf:
Lush Turf Solutions
http://www.lushturfsolutions.com.au/
9/1440 New Cleveland Road, Capalaba West, Brisbane
+61 7 3390 2551 with 0 or not???
[Status unverified]

Underwear:
# UndieGuys
http://www.undieguys.com.au
addresss???
phone???
[Status unverified]"


You could even build a local or a state one -- whatever: wow!!! what a way to get in touch with the crypto folk who are our consultancy's customers.

PSD: 'the next big leg up'? Expedia? Google and Yahoo stock tickers? a trial at the Holiday Inn? the end of The China Thing well in sight?

Mark Blair, Unicup, Western Australia

What you are doing Mark is fantastic, total 'nutz and boltz' aproach to introducing cryptos to folk who otherwise could be years behind the revolution.  Totally inspiring to see someone up to their armpits in elbow grease, pushing their passion beyond the screen and into the scene.

Maybe someone could throw together some flyers or posters we could each print off to hand out, hammer up and letterbox??  

Killiz,  England UK

Edit: Mark, get some snaps and vids if possible of what you are achieving with the crypto town project. Would really like to see the progress as it happens.

Good to hear from ya Killiz!! I am a huge fan of flyers and other printouts like brochure and business card sized stuff. What will go on it? We have to get creative!

Hey, Killiz!

Feel free to laugh out loud: I doubt I'll be able to manage photos or vids for a while. I live in a farm house so far out in the Australian bush that I can see an emu out the window right now. And I am vision-impaired. And I get only a trickle of Internet. Can't figure out how to load a photo on this site.

Mark, Australia

We will make do with what we have! This proves that only a minimal amount of internet connectivity is even required to get this stuff done! Cheesy
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