Topic: Hodlonaut Trial - page 10. (Read 4276 times)

Along with Bitcoin Magazine, someone else is putting youtube videos up to cover the trial.  Unfortunately, it's coingeek.  I won't click on them, but no doubt they're putting their "unique" slant on things.  Some of the videos are even titled "Satoshi Trial", so already it's a pack of lies before anyone has even seen it.

One thing that can be clicked on is the three little vertical dots, which brings up a menu allowing you to report videos for being misleading.  It would be a shame if everyone here on the forum were to click it.   

You know what to do.

Unfortunately Bitcoin Magazine don't seem to be releasing the unedited footage from Friday, so we can only go on the tweets provided, but I've been rereading them and they are absolutely laughable.

For example:
https://nitter.it/wizsecurity/status/1570773425102397443#m
https://nitter.it/bitnorbert/status/1570765810863575040#m
CSW submitted what he is claiming is pre-release bitcoin source code, but this pre-release bitcoin source code includes a bug fix which was made in version 0.1.0 following a report made by Hal Finney. So to believe CSW you have to believe he introduced the bug, then fixed it, then re-introduced it, then waited on Hal to make his report, and then fixed it again. Lol.

https://nitter.it/bitnorbert/status/1570769461954879490#m
https://nitter.it/wizsecurity/status/1570773434904485893#m
CSW's submitted pre-release .exe file has an identical checksum to the first public release version. The problem here of course is that while the checksum is valid for the first public version, it is invalid for CSW's pre-release version. This shows that his pre-release version was created simply by taking the first public version and changing a few minor things, i.e. a barn door forgery.

https://nitter.it/wizsecurity/status/1570773441061748741#m
Absolute lol. He tried to make it look older simply by changing the version number in the readme file.

https://nitter.it/bitnorbert/status/1570766382048096260#m
https://nitter.it/wizsecurity/status/1570942661959491584#m
And he included a reference to compressed public keys, which weren't used for another 4 years.

So he has obviously submitted forgeries, but what I find hilarious is just how bad these forgeries are. Referencing things which didn't exist at the time, doing something as simple as just changing the version number, apparently completely oblivious to the existence of checksums. This is the technical equivalent of using white-out on a date and writing an older date on top and thinking no one will notice. You are telling me the best forgery the inventor of bitcoin can muster up is changing the version number in a .txt file? Lmao.

It's difficult because the guy is clearly desperate for attention and it feels wrong to give him more.  But people should be aware of the network of reprehensible scum who support the figurehead of this scam.  We don't want to glorify them, but they should be named and shamed.  

Calvin Ayre and other employees of 'coingeek',
Hakan Yuksel along with any and all employees of 'nchain',
Stefan Matthews, Jodok Wicki and the lesser peons at the (so-called) 'bitcoin association',

All of these people and organisations should all be viewed as culpable accessories.

I can only confirm that I also read that trial will last 7 days, which in my opinion is more than enough to establish the essential facts and for the court to make its decision based on that.

From what I picked up, 2 more days on Monday and Tuesday. Or Tuesday and Wednesday. Surprisingly tricky to find that in writing; I just heard it on Bitcoinmagazine's interview with Mills.

It would likely be unwise for them to start discussing court proceedings while the trial is ongoing.

It's not just a protest, but a fund raising campaign. So far the community has raised over 70 BTC and a further $75k in support of paying Hodlonaut's legal fees: https://opensats.org/projects/opensats_legal_defense

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Back on topic now: Does anyone know what format the trial is taking next week? I understand CSW's team will be calling more paid shills witnesses who will also not provide any verifiable evidence also say CSW is totally amazing, but I don't know what day that will be. What else is planned? When is the trial due to finish?

Unfortunately, very few people can understand the technical background of everything that Faketoshi claims to be true, so it is possible that everything he presents at such trials for the court has a justified doubt that these are true claims. This is why he goes to such legal battles with as many as 9 lawyers, each of whom probably understands only one part of the lie, which they then try to prove as the truth as a whole.

We know that Faketoshi is not a lone fanatic who insists on being Satoshi, but that he has moral and generous financial support for various Judas who at some point decided that they wanted to privatize Bitcoin and that the best way to do it was to set up a central figure through a person for who will try to prove that he is Satoshi.

This fact has been ignored for years, and how many times have I read on the forum that we should not pay attention to it, and now the only question is who will appear in court next? Faketoshi will only go from country to country and from court to court, because realistically he has nothing else to do in life.

Just for reference, here are all the Bitnorbert transcripts:

[Day 1]:
First post: https://nitter.it/bitnorbert/status/1569214879885656067
Thread: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1569214879885656067
[Day 2]:
First post: https://nitter.it/bitnorbert/status/1569558996142415872
Thread: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1569558996142415872
[Day 3]:
First post: https://nitter.it/bitnorbert/status/1569921386738601985
Thread: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1569921386738601985
[Day 4]:
First post: https://nitter.it/bitnorbert/status/1570283773383659520
Thread: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1570283773383659520
[Day 5]:
First post: https://nitter.it/bitnorbert/status/1570646160725123075
Thread: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1570646160725123075
[Day 6]:
First post: https://nitter.it/bitnorbert/status/1571733321461243904
Thread: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1571733321461243904
[Day 7]:
First post: https://nitter.it/bitnorbert/status/1572458096240521216
Thread: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1572458096240521216

[Reflections on day 1]: https://nitter.it/bitnorbert/status/1569423884184690690
[Reflections on day 2]: https://nitter.it/bitnorbert/status/1569777546274668549
[Reflections on day 3]: https://nitter.it/bitnorbert/status/1570075562772762624
[Reflections on day 4]: https://nitter.it/bitnorbert/status/1570491535552282625
[Reflections on day 5]: https://nitter.it/bitnorbert/status/1570861676442054663
[Reflections on day 6]: https://nitter.it/bitnorbert/status/1571946089380712448
[Reflections on day 7]: https://nitter.it/bitnorbert/status/1572654086457270272

Sort of, if he lies in court or brings false evidence into the proceeding even in a civil case there can be repercussions.

The larger risk is that if he looses people can go after him with lawsuits. He has attacked some people with money in the BTC world, if they want to start going after him, it gives them the ability to put out there that he has already lost this case and look what damage he did to me.....

Either way the cultists that believe him will keep believing him, those that don't will likely never start at this point.

-Dave

Craig is bringing alot of sentiments into the overview and has succeeded in trying to convince the gullible jurists.Craig won't even mind spending alot just to make the ball-game political, that's quite unruly.

If he's presenting an issue of this sort in court --as Royce said-- why should they place judgment without valid proofs (exhibit kind of)? I'm just seeing it to becoming a political affair.

I dunno how active this hodlonaut stuff is, cus I'm seeing it as some kinda protest or maybe I'm wrong?
Is there any hodlonaut ambassador out there who could speak onbehalf of the team in court? If not, then a mere protest on media won't do much harm. Craig is an imposter, everyone knows the truth.

Look, sometimes when solving a problem, you have to look at it critically from it basement.
If I may ask: what was the essence of SATOSHI making himself, themselves,itself pseudonymous when he,they knew quite well that a time will come when someone will unanimous acclaim bitcoin or even claim to be SATOSHI's accomplise, HUH??!
 This is really gonna get ugly. I don't even know what else to say
Sandra_

knowing CSW tactics if CSW wins.
hodlonaut has to pay amounts of the UK case claim plus whatever else is added in the norweigen claim. and refrain from future social drama attacks on CSW reputation.

CSW can then make new disputes later about (false) non payments or use future social drama attacks(by others) as a trigger to re-sue hodlonaut by saying that X new attacker is hodlonaut using alt-accounts (CSW has hinted to this option already in the case) where hodlonaut then has to fight proving he is not alt-acount, (CSW can fake/photoshop, conversations between people (that never happened) to trigger more frivolous suits)

as for punishing CSW
the civil court (dispute resolution) punishment is just who wins..
there is no perjury crime if caught lying. its just the win goes to the side that didnt lie.

What's more disappointing is that in this world, a poor person is unable to get the legal assistance they need. Fund raising works when it's for the actual common good, but that's just an exception. The reason why Craig has reached where he's currently at, is clearly his big pocket. The court must punish him, for if they don't, and we, the Bitcoin community, fail at proving this bastard a liar, imagine how unfairly your future (possible) case might be faced.

Does Hodlonaut have anything to fear in case he loses the trial?

firstly about CSW choice to fght..
there is no choice for him, because he has no option. its either play the court or become a meaningless no-body.
(((CSW (reality) had no coin pre2013, only had 48btc in 2013 then had debt/finance problems since which were then funded by silly people he conned there after)))

after reading old notes and links to other people investigations over the years, CSW first "touch" of bitcoin was in april 2013 ( as proven by the mtgox accounts leak after the crash/liquidation, Aus gov records, US gov records) he has no 2009-2012 stash/collateral/keys/coins. linkage or mention of bitcoin prior to this. his scams previous to 2013 were trying to scam R&D grants from government and private business to create consultancy businesses and software businesses about IT security

.. as for the courts
they are not there to investigate the truth outside the dispute. in civil court they are just the mediator of a dispute and of the weigh of averages which side is more credible based on whats presented in their statements and deserves a win. its upto the 2 sides involved to do the investigating and display and explain the technical details of the dispute. not for the judge to be fully versed in all aspects of every detail of a subject matter outside the court/pre-court
(that said the judge is not stupid and has personally done some research over the last 5 days just to have a personal better understanding. as seen by becoming more confident in asking about crypto stuff)

but its not her job to demand evidence. if the opposition to CSW is not contesting what CSW is saying(hodlonauts team need to demand CSW show something.  then and only then can the judge make it a formal order, if it relates to settling the dispute.)

EG the W&k brand ownerships.
though real world knows there is no collateral.. because both sides (ira&csw) agreed/did not dispute collateral amount. the court did not need to request proof of collateral, it was just dispute resolution about % ownership rights to the brand W&K

if you imagine civil court as dispute resolution and not real world out of court truth seeking. you see the limitations of court can only deal with what has been mentioned/claimed/accused inside the room about statements said by the parties and their witnesses even if both are right, both are wrong or one has it wrong. its just about which side deserves to have the dispute won in their favour

this is what CSW is hoping for. bring in enough witnesses to seem credible
..
its upto hodlonaut's team to pick at CSW's lies, to explain the lies and to prove they are lies. not for the court to investigate things outside the court or question everything.

i would have loved to have seen more objections and entering of more facts into evidence to counter CSW's statements from hodlonauts team

but this dispute is about did hodlonaut knowingly know CSW was some mystery man pseudonym and then attack and discredit that reputation. or did hodlonaut have an opinion based on what he seen, know from the community of a pre-existing doubt about CSW story. which is then fair play for hodlonaut to say how he feels.

(like how flat earthers can say they think earth is flat)

Situations like these are all too common. I can remember when the social media giants (facebook, instagram, whatsapp...) were on some sort of trial years back for misuse of public data information. Many of the questions asked were misinformed and not technical in line with the activities of those companies.
They court here could appoint an expert (court appointed expert), to assist in demystifying technical terms. Not aware why it was not opted for.

- Jay -

This is exactly the reason why CSW chooses to fight these battles in court rather than via independently verifiable means. He knows he cannot provide any evidence he is Satoshi (because he isn't) via any of the methods the community are interested in, such as moving coins or signing a message,* and so he chooses instead to use a system which can be fooled with technobabble and by those with the most money to pay.

I agree, but now that such cases exist, it is in all our interests to support Hodlonaut (or anyone else fighting CSW) and to start to put an end to CSW's nonsense and threats to others in the community.

I'll link again to Greg Maxwell's Reddit post: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/ws8wfd/starting_september_12th_in_oslo_norway_hodlonaut/ikxqxoo/

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*Of course accepting that a valid signature is necessary but not sufficient in the quest to prove someone is Satoshi.

I really don't understand how uneducated a court could be. If they do not understand the technology then they need a team who understand it. People paying tax to waste money on those uneducated court people, why?

It just need a bitcoin address to sign the proof of authentication but no one seems to be going to that path. What does these witlessness has to do here. When a technically detailed case handled by a group of politics, history educated people then nothing good can be expected from it.

All waste of time.

Split from this thread: We are all Hodlonaut

For the background to the case, read the above thread and also this website: https://www.defendingbtc.com/
If you would like to donate to the OpenSats Legal Defense Fund, for Hodlonaut and future lawsuits against CSW, then do so here: https://opensats.org/projects/opensats_legal_defense

#WeAreAllHodlonaut

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I split this thread from the other one so I could self moderate it going forward. Spam and nonsense from individual claiming to be Satoshi themselves will be deleted with impunity (unless they provide an appropriate signature, of course ).

Twitter users who are worth following during the trial:

https://nitter.it/bitnorbert
https://nitter.it/SpecificMills
https://nitter.it/kristiandoble/
https://nitter.it/wizsecurity

There are also a number of unedited videos from inside the courtroom courtesy of Bitcoin Magazine available here: https://www.youtube.com/c/BitcoinMagazine/videos

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Edit:

A resounding victory for Hodlonaut and a complete loss for CSW. Read from this post onward for discussion of the verdict: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.61153381