Topic: Hodlonaut Trial - page 8. (Read 3828 times)

as DaveF pointed out..
both sides have said what is needed to be said. its not for the judge to investigate every detail during the trial.. as that just slows down the trial and adds costs to both parties.
but now the trial is over, now its time for the judge and their assistants to read through it all again, and check out the references and evidence and scrutinise the detail and come to a conclusion.

the judge probably will now learn more about bitcoin and signing processes and also the ATO case documents of CSW and all the other stuff to just get a full understanding of it all

to us crypto experienced people the verdict we see/want is obvious now.
but to an outside with no previous clue about crypto. there is alot to churn through to fully know whats real and not

How much is paperwork and procedures that just take time. The decision has been made, now it must be written, proof read, documented, references cited, those references checked, approvals from others, and so on. It seems to be the same in a lot of courts, when it's major and important and you can pull in a bunch of people things can get done quickly. For things like this, although *we* think it's important, it really is just another case and it gets done when it gets done.

For now we can only sit and wait.

Since I only really know US courts and how long they take I can't comment as to that amount of time in general being fast or slow or average.

-Dave

Yeah, it seems from Bitcoin Magazine's latest video that the result may well come before then, and the judge said she would give a one day notice period to both parties before the judgement is published. Still disappointing that they haven't released the raw footage that they have from the last few days but have just made a bunch of videos of them talking about it. We want to see CSW's fails in person please!

Also, it may be that it is possible to request that the KPMG report full of CSW's forgeries be released to the public: https://nitter.it/Arthur_van_Pelt/status/1572272323381559298#m. Wouldn't that be fun.

A quick verdict may look rushed. Justice is famous for taking its time.

I don't know how the costs thing works, but I'm afraid CSW may try to drag it longer by dragging the completion of costs documents.
Even more, the Nov 8 may be the "upper limit" and the result may come earlier. I hope so.

I realised when reading through bitnorbert's tweets that BDO as a witness for CSW was causing
more harm than good. The only thing they could question about KPMG's report was the processes
used in some of the results. They largely agreed with most of what KPMG found.

Those two very reputable companies while being called on opposite sides and agreeing on their
findings should paint a very clear picture for the Judge in ruling in favour of Hodlonaut.

I have mixed feelings about the 7 week delivery of the verdict, is it not obvious to the judge
of the above? then again its best to retrace everything which has taken place throughout
the trial?

To me it seems Hodlonaut put together a seriously strong case, right from day 1 the
points facts presented were big punches but the use of KPMG was a fantastic
idea, why hadnt that tactic been used before by Peter McCormack for instance?

Trial is finished. Apparently the judge has set a date of November 8th for a decision (!), so we are going to be waiting ~7 weeks to find out the outcome of the case.

Costs are being submitted within 2 weeks, so there is still time to donate to Hodlonaut's legal fees or to help fund future cases against CSW: https://opensats.org/projects/opensats_legal_defense

no judgement today, expect it in early october

other funny's to note about CSW closing statement

1. CSW happily throws his buddy Calvin ayres under the bus about doxxing hodlonaut

2. tries to suggest freedom of speech only applies if there is a session of invited debate.. where people are not free to speak unless party involved in the discussion has been invited to respond(facepalm)

if thats true then i cant say that i hate cherry flavoured pepsi as it tastes like disgusting acidy aniseed, dipped in the sweat of a homelessman
.. unless i invite a homeless man and the legal team of pepsico to this forum.. right?
nope.. i can say it and pepsico do not legally need to have a right to respond or be invited into the discussion

So Hodlonaut's team have now finished their closing statement, and CSW's team is giving theirs. Some absolute howlers coming out of CSW's team today:

You don't say!?

Expects the court to believe there is no link at all between CSW And Calvin Ayre in relation to doxing individuals? Lol. I'll just leave this here: https://nitter.it/CalvinAyre/status/1115913884823707649

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Today is the last day. I'm not sure if we will get a judgement today, or if the judge will take some time to deliberate first. Anyone know?

frivolous/SLAPP lawsuits are a nuisance and many jurisdictions have made processes to quash them before they even get a hearing..
(when making a claim you have to atleast show some basic evidence that something actually happened/is in dispute)
but CSW moved to a jurisdiction where SLAPP lawsuits are still heard if they meet a minimal standard.

most civil cases are not things with any big punishments(no prison for loser). they are just cases where there is a dispute between 2 parties and they want a unbiased mediator to judge on which side should fairly win.. where basically if you have the money to pay the mediator(court fees) you get your chance in court

there are silly other things like. if the opposition simply does not turn up, or doesnt want to defend themselves. the court deems that there is no defence and so the party that did turn up wins by default

yes its not the best system and yes there should be many more processes in place where it stops people making random fictitious claims..

but.. if there is evidence shown upfront where someone has insulted someone else and the claimer says they were hurt.. then it passes the most basic bar of being atleast worthy of hearing

where as if CSW said some random person defamed him but couldnt even show a real tweet of that insult. then it wont be heard.
this is why CSW is not making a court claim about satoshi. but doing the defamation claims, and then during the defamation claim, then adding in his pinches of salt to try claiming to be satoshi on record with silly non-proofs. hoping a defamation win becomes proof of satoshi win

Wright’s Satoshi Proofs ‘Not Credible’ and a ‘Farce,’ Hodlonaut Lawyers Say
https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2022/09/19/craig-wrights-satoshi-proofs-not-credible-and-a-farce-hodlonaut-lawyers-say/

Claims by Australian computer scientist Craig Wright to be the founder of Bitcoin were dismissed as “not credible” and a “farce” by lawyers for Twitter personality Hodlonaut, otherwise known as Magnus Granath, in closing arguments offered in Oslo’s District Court Monday.
...
DPA’s findings were “consistent … with what KPMG found in their report,” van Schijndel told District Court Judge Helen Engebrigtsen. “This would include the findings in regard to the fonts.”
That was enough for Ørjan Salvesen Haukaas, Granath’s lawyer, to conclude a pattern of misrepresentation by Wright.
“This document has been manipulated. There can be no doubt about that,” said Haukaas. “This isn’t something that happens if you move it from Windows to Linux … it’s something that happens when you use a text editor and you change the text.”
“The fact that these documents were forged wasn’t even contested by Wright in his statement” to the court, Haukaas said.

  ...  

Legal noob question - why did this case and previous CWS cases went to court, couldn't the judge recognize them as legal trolling and dismiss them. And if the judge didn't understand the technical nuances, couldn't they ask someone who did. To me it looks like a symptom of a broken legal system, and it's clearly against the spirit of the law when a person with a strong reputation of a scammer is able to bring people who expose them to court and make them spend money on defense.

if a ceramic pot was smashed a years ago, then stepped on hundreds of times over years until its dust.. you cant then blame person number 20,000 who has annoyed you for repeating the pot is damaged, for said damage

hodlenaut comments were not just personal lies hodlonaut made up to harm someone. his thoughts are based on information that the community already knew and he simply ensured other people new it too, to save newbie people falling for scams.... hodlonaut did not create anything damaging. thus didnt cause any damage that didnt already exist

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though CSW doesnt care win or lose.. its not the game he is ultimately playing..
for hodlonaut the case is going hodlonaut way

though CSW says he wants to use future courts as proof of identity..
to  prove he has a credible reputation worth protecting.. ..
not proving it means he has no credible reputation NOW ... thus nothing to protect or get damaged

 defamation/insults/call outs that already occured are not about maybe one day someone will prove something.. its about what information is and was available now and in the past to support someone opinion now and in the past...
and how real/factual/credible that info is to prove/disprove identity and create a reputation(good or bad) that needs protecting(of/from) when the insults occured.
yet there is enough proof of the bad non existant rep. that the stuff pretending to be of good rep has been debunked, proved as lies and shown as forgeries and counterfeit. thus the fails of CSW past is a good enough reason to call him out on his failures.

his reputation has been pre-damaged for decades, he has been sued by former employers, colleges have discredited his involvement, old investors in his "it security" scams have discredited him, Australian tax office have called him out on his crap..

thus general opinion of the community has been that CSW was already a sham/fake/con artist. far longer than hodleonauts comments.

Tell him I'm always available for reposting content he wants to share there.

It's good that Reddit doesn't require phone numbers. I can generate an unlimited of Proton and Tutanota addresses (provided I delete some first).

And then someone complains that this forum is not good enough when it comes to freedom of expression, which unlike the mentioned platform is some kind of futuristic democracy. In my opinion, it is even too tolerated when it comes to various BSV shills or those who claim to be Satoshi without any evidence.

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I want to believe that the Norwegian court will look at all the evidence and rule in favor of Hodlonaut, and the only thing that worries me is how well the court will be able to understand the evidence presented, because it is not something they have encountered before.

Looks like bitnorbert agrees with my statement above about CSW's team failing by calling experts who agree with Hodlonaut:

Obviously I'm only reading things through the filter of Twitter here, but it does seem like this should go in favor of Hodlonaut.

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In other news, BSV shills have succeeded in getting Greg Maxwell banned from Reddit for posting some of CSW's lies and forgeries from the trial: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/xi8f1q/is_nullc_banned_from_reddit/

Reddit is such a trash platform.

Yes. It means that if the judge has any sort of understanding about the case, Hodlnaut will be the winner. I think it’s been demonstrated beyond a reasonable doubt that CSW has falsified documents in an attempt to prove he was satoshi and is now telling the court to take people’s word for it. If this works for CSW, I will also be calling myself satoshi and forking the chain to unlock his coins for myself. Anyone who is willing to state that I am satoshi can have a cut.

nothing.. CSW requested day off to organise some lawyers as some not available tomorrow

I'm not good at deciphering lawyer-speak. Does this mean Hodlonaut is winning or not?

Looks like the trial is finished for today, and will be back on Wednesday. I'm not sure what is happening tomorrow.

By the looks of the tweets, Hodlonaut's team have started with a very good closing statement. I believe there will be more from them on Wednesday. For example:

Also worth pointing out that CSW claimed he shared early drafts of the whitepaper with a number of people last week, including Dustin Trammell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zkweFcpQMs&t=3985s
Dustin Trammell has today made a post calling that out as yet another complete lie from CSW: https://blog.dustintrammell.com/faketoshi-craig-wright-lies-exposed/

theology
the study of how to create a cult of believers..
.. (sarcasm -> ) i wonder why he would see a need to study this?

digital forensics
the study of how digital files can be edited, manipulated..
.. (sarcasm -> ) i wonder why he would see a need to study this?