How long ukraine could survive? - page 5.

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Slava Ukraini!

Quote from: Etranger on March 08, 2022, 07:49:07 AM

I understand, though I do not agree, why neither America nor Europe is sending troops to help Ukraine. I can even understand why they do not cover the sky (Putin has already stated that he would regard any such attempt as entering the war). However, I can't understand why we won't be given planes and more air defense systems. Nor can I understand why the UN cannot send peacekeepers to separate the Armed Forces of the warring parties and thus create favorable conditions for diplomatic negotiations to end this conflict. It seems that this organization was created for such events. And now they are doing nothing but expressing "concern".

Today I read that Poland is going to give 29 their fighter jets to USA and USA is going to give them to Ukraine.
Also, more than 20 000 foreign troops is going to defend Ukraine in International legion. Though, today I read on telegram that there are 40 000 foreign troops, but I don't know how reliable these numbers.
And you're right that these organizations like UN can't do something more than say that they're concerned. OSCE monitoring mission already left Ukraine.

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Quote from: Etranger on March 05, 2022, 04:07:58 AM

Unfortunately, Putin is using any NATO action to interpret it against Ukraine. NATO does not want to take us - of course, who needs us but Russia, only Russia can protect us, so let's make sure that only with Russia we can survive and coexist.

NATO is hinting they might take us - Russia sees this as a complete carte blanche to start a full-scale war, because of course, NATO will immediately give us tons of weapons and start producing nuclear weapons in my country for the sole purpose of erasing Russia from the world map.

To anyone capable of rational thinking, it sounds absurd and even ridiculous if it weren't so sad. However, this is the delusion that has been feeding the Russian people for decades. And they don't see anything at all except what a bunch of inadequate people tell them on TV.

I am glad even a Ukrainian can understand this whole war this way. The more one tends to follow the issue as it unfolds, the more you tend to get a clear picture why its all going down the way its going. The sad news is, Ukraine seem to have have the one caught in this whole propaganda of NATO and US politics. I saw a phrase somewhere and it states "who wouldn't react or respond should an enemy lin over your neighbours wall and aims a gun at your head ".

The agreement that ensured between NATO and the former Soviet Union which is chiefly Russia was that, NATO won't move an inch close to Russia and somehow, NATO have breached that agreement by sorting further expansion. The sad news is, NATO is a body and not some boundary bounded nation and as such, Russia directed its war towards the supposedly newest member.

I don't in anyway support violence or shading of blood but, words of agreements should be honored. Its our best chance to building a civilised world. It's my hope that peace do return to both these nations real soon!

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Quote from: Etranger on March 08, 2022, 07:49:07 AM

Quote from: Gosgosking on March 07, 2022, 06:43:19 PM

USA can't really stop Russia from doing what they feel to do to Ukraine because the USA knows if they try anything hard or try to fight back Russia they will face the consequences. The US would not like to involve themselves in anything that will will affect their citizens. I heard that the Russians have the biggest missile submarine in the world, the US would like to avoid problems.

I understand, though I do not agree, why neither America nor Europe is sending troops to help Ukraine. I can even understand why they do not cover the sky (Putin has already stated that he would regard any such attempt as entering the war). However, I can't understand why we won't be given planes and more air defense systems. Nor can I understand why the UN cannot send peacekeepers to separate the Armed Forces of the warring parties and thus create favorable conditions for diplomatic negotiations to end this conflict. It seems that this organization was created for such events. And now they are doing nothing but expressing "concern".

Hang in there. Once you kill 50K+, Putin's generals might refuse to continue this fight.

The total enemy losses from 24/02 to 08.02:
--------------------------------------------------
combatants killed - ~12 000
tanks ‒ 303
combat armored machines / APV ‒ 1036
artillery systems/artillery systems - 120
RSZV / MLRS - 56
PPO / Anti-aircraft warfare systems - 27
aircrafts - 48
helicopters - 80
car equipment / vehicles - 474
ships/boats - 3
tank with PMM / fuel tanks - 60
UAV operational-tactical level - 7

source: https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua

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Quote from: Gosgosking on March 07, 2022, 06:43:19 PM

USA can't really stop Russia from doing what they feel to do to Ukraine because the USA knows if they try anything hard or try to fight back Russia they will face the consequences. The US would not like to involve themselves in anything that will will affect their citizens. I heard that the Russians have the biggest missile submarine in the world, the US would like to avoid problems.

I understand, though I do not agree, why neither America nor Europe is sending troops to help Ukraine. I can even understand why they do not cover the sky (Putin has already stated that he would regard any such attempt as entering the war). However, I can't understand why we won't be given planes and more air defense systems. Nor can I understand why the UN cannot send peacekeepers to separate the Armed Forces of the warring parties and thus create favorable conditions for diplomatic negotiations to end this conflict. It seems that this organization was created for such events. And now they are doing nothing but expressing "concern".

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USA can't really stop Russia from doing what they feel to do to Ukraine because the USA knows if they try anything hard or try to fight back Russia they will face the consequences. The US would not like to involve themselves in anything that will will affect their citizens. I heard that the Russians have the biggest missile submarine in the world, the US would like to avoid problems.

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Slava Ukraini!

Quote from: Etranger on March 07, 2022, 05:23:04 AM

Moreover, they attack civilian targets in order to cause the population to panic and create chaos in defense. In order for the population to start begging to stop the war by any means, even if it means complete surrender. But really they did not expect such resistance, especially from civilians.

They are also besieging cities and banning humanitarian convoys from delivering essential goods. Volunteer cars have been fired on more than once. This is another way to make people under siege believe that Ukraine will spit on them and that no one but Russia will help them. That is why they are creating "green corridors" to Russia so that exhausted people can come to their aid, thinking that Ukraine will no longer help them. But these barbarians were wrong here too. Ukrainians are much more confident in themselves and in Ukraine than these mercenaries in their Russia.

They wanted to make blitzkrieg operation and took Ukraine in few days, but when they realized that's impossible, they targeted civilians. And you're right, in such way they trying to achieve complete capitualtion from Ukraine.
And offcourse, they're spreading ugly propaganda that Ukrainian forces is shooting to civilians and that they don't allow to make green coridors.

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Quote from: Betwrong on March 07, 2022, 01:59:51 PM

Quote from: CryptocurencyKing on March 07, 2022, 01:36:11 PM

Ukraine might be loosing the war with Russians forces pushing further but you can be rest assured that this war would not be over until Ukrainians reclaims there home land. There is nothing more powerful or motivating than fighting for one's right and that's the case of Ukraine and Ukrainians. They've got the consciousness and conviction that, what they are fighting for is there own freedom of which it truly is and as such, they will endure as much as they need to until the war is won in there favour. God be with Ukraine and Ukrainians in this war and its my hope that this peace that is greatly sort out for returns to our world once more.

We are fighting for our freedom. We don't wan to be a part of russian empire, we want to be a part of the civilized world. That's it.

Thank you guys from all over the world for your support. It means a lot for us here.

You should fight them no matter what.

Try to kill as many of them as possible, as fast as possible. Distribute sniper rifles to people all around each city.

Every time they step out of their tank, they should get a 7.62 mm in the head.

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I stand with Ukraine.

Quote from: CryptocurencyKing on March 07, 2022, 01:36:11 PM

Ukraine might be loosing the war with Russians forces pushing further but you can be rest assured that this war would not be over until Ukrainians reclaims there home land. There is nothing more powerful or motivating than fighting for one's right and that's the case of Ukraine and Ukrainians. They've got the consciousness and conviction that, what they are fighting for is there own freedom of which it truly is and as such, they will endure as much as they need to until the war is won in there favour. God be with Ukraine and Ukrainians in this war and its my hope that this peace that is greatly sort out for returns to our world once more.

We are fighting for our freedom. We don't wan to be a part of russian empire, we want to be a part of the civilized world. That's it.

Thank you guys from all over the world for your support. It means a lot for us here.

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Ukraine might be loosing the war with Russians forces pushing further but you can be rest assured that this war would not be over until Ukrainians reclaims there home land. There is nothing more powerful or motivating than fighting for one's right and that's the case of Ukraine and Ukrainians. They've got the consciousness and conviction that, what they are fighting for is there own freedom of which it truly is and as such, they will endure as much as they need to until the war is won in there favour. God be with Ukraine and Ukrainians in this war and its my hope that this peace that is greatly sort out for returns to our world once more.

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There was virtually no expectation that Ukraine's military can withstand a full Russian invasion for more than a few days. But after 12 days of fighting, Ukrainians can say at least one thing with certainty: They will fight. Thus, it is possible that the Ukrainian military will eventually seek to retake some territory from Russian troops, as they did in the weeks after the end of the War in Donbass.

Many experts have, however, suggested that a certain partisan resistance might emerge depending on where and how the attacks take place. This hypothesis makes sense given what we have seen in Ukraine over the past few days. The guerrilla warfare tactic is not necessarily something new for Ukraine, given the country's long history of fighting against a powerful neighbor. Ukraine's resilience is also not entirely a mystery; its history shows that the country has often been forced to combat bigger odds and take on bigger enemies.

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Quote from: LTU_btc on March 06, 2022, 05:11:29 PM

NATO troops which worked as instructors left Ukraine before war. Now all foreign troops who are in Ukraine arrived there as volunteers, but they're not sent by NATO.
Russia is trying to avoid civilian casualties - let me predict, you heard such bulshit on Russian TV? Maybe in first days of war they were targeting mainly military objects, but now it seems that they're trying to kill more civilians because they didn't expected so much resistance from them. For them it means nothing to open fire at car where family is trying to escape from city.

Moreover, they attack civilian targets in order to cause the population to panic and create chaos in defense. In order for the population to start begging to stop the war by any means, even if it means complete surrender. But really they did not expect such resistance, especially from civilians.

They are also besieging cities and banning humanitarian convoys from delivering essential goods. Volunteer cars have been fired on more than once. This is another way to make people under siege believe that Ukraine will spit on them and that no one but Russia will help them. That is why they are creating "green corridors" to Russia so that exhausted people can come to their aid, thinking that Ukraine will no longer help them. But these barbarians were wrong here too. Ukrainians are much more confident in themselves and in Ukraine than these mercenaries in their Russia.

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Quote from: laredo7mm on March 06, 2022, 12:36:48 PM

NATO could deny there are no NATO troops in Ukraine but evidence shows something else. There are still 4500 permanent military advisors in Ukraine only from the USA. NATO deployed mercenary troops just like Putin does.

I do not think Putin has any intention to annex Ukraine which shows by the fact that they are trying to avoid civilian casualties. Prolonging the war only cause more damage to Russia's economy and Putin knows that. But his strategy still looks unclear to the west.

NATO troops which worked as instructors left Ukraine before war. Now all foreign troops who are in Ukraine arrived there as volunteers, but they're not sent by NATO.
Russia is trying to avoid civilian casualties - let me predict, you heard such bulshit on Russian TV? Maybe in first days of war they were targeting mainly military objects, but now it seems that they're trying to kill more civilians because they didn't expected so much resistance from them. For them it means nothing to open fire at car where family is trying to escape from city.

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Quote from: bittraffic on March 06, 2022, 12:31:13 PM

What strategy is left here but peacetalk, make a deal because I'm sure it's not yet late.

It is impossible to have a peacetalt with people who deny the very essence and subject of these negotiations. Demanding Ukraine to lay down its arms, in fact surrender and change its legitimate government to one that suits Russia is not a peace negotiation or an agreement. Moreover, only in the last 8 years it has been possible to observe how Russia "fulfills" the agreements. What is the point of contracts if they are constantly violated?

Quote from: laredo7mm on March 06, 2022, 12:36:48 PM

I do not think Putin has any intention to annex Ukraine which shows by the fact that they are trying to avoid civilian casualties.

Really? They should try better

https://ua.interfax.com.ua/news/general/802748.html
https://globalnews.ca/news/8661361/volunteer-death-kyiv-ukraine/
https://kyivindependent.com/uncategorized/media-russian-forces-fire-at-civilians-in-irpin-kill-at-least-3-civilians/

Quote from: laredo7mm on March 06, 2022, 12:36:48 PM

Prolonging the war only cause more damage to Russia's economy and Putin knows that. But his strategy still looks unclear to the west.

His strategy is to make Ukraine a part of Russian Empire. Along with Belarus, which is already included.
I am not sure he really cares about Russia`s economy, it is already obvious to everyone that he does not care about his own people. No one imposed sanctions until the open attack on Ukraine. One can already guess that the sanctions were imposed because of this. If he had not pursued his own ambitions, he would have stopped. And he is not stopped even by the poverty of his own people.

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Quote from: bittraffic on March 06, 2022, 12:31:13 PM

Prolonging the war will be a strategy for Putin while there are funds going to Ukraine, this will give them the advantage to seize the wealth of the country. And at the same time, Russia will be looking to decide the effects of sanctions on thier part and other countries.

The US already expresses they will not send troops to directly fight Russians, I think that's really upsetting for Zelensky. No NATO members yet are also going to directly combat Russia even when they already call out anyone who wants to fight. What strategy is left here but peacetalk, make a deal because I'm sure it's not yet late.

NATO could deny there are no NATO troops in Ukraine but evidence shows something else. There are still 4500 permanent military advisors in Ukraine only from the USA. NATO deployed mercenary troops just like Putin does.

I do not think Putin has any intention to annex Ukraine which shows by the fact that they are trying to avoid civilian casualties. Prolonging the war only cause more damage to Russia's economy and Putin knows that. But his strategy still looks unclear to the west.

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Prolonging the war will be a strategy for Putin while there are funds going to Ukraine, this will give them the advantage to seize the wealth of the country. And at the same time, Russia will be looking to decide the effects of sanctions on thier part and other countries.

The US already expresses they will not send troops to directly fight Russians, I think that's really upsetting for Zelensky. No NATO members yet are also going to directly combat Russia even when they already call out anyone who wants to fight. What strategy is left here but peacetalk, make a deal because I'm sure it's not yet late.

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Quote from: Etranger on March 04, 2022, 05:23:23 PM

Quote from: yhiaali3 on March 04, 2022, 04:40:18 PM

I am of course sympathetic to the Ukrainians and very sad for them, I think most countries of the world do that too, the Ukrainians will resist and this is their right and everyone should help them defend themselves, Putin is guilty and Russia is also guilty of this aggression against an independent sovereign state, but from my point of view the West Guilty also for two reasons:
The first reason is that the West brought Ukraine into this problem when it tried to include Ukraine in NATO, and they know that Russia will not accept that.
The second reason: They abandoned Ukraine and did not directly defend it, but were satisfied with condemnation, humanitarian aid, and the economic blockade against Russia, and this is absolutely not enough.
Unfortunately, it is the good Ukrainian people who pay the price of this cold war between Russia and NATO.

Thank you for your support! I agree with the second reason, and as a Ukrainian citizen I am very angry, that the West Donets help us preventively with more sanctions, more armament and more essential protection. But at the same time I understand, why they done do it. They are afraid of the possibility of the war, which captures other countries in Europe or even the world. So they try not to provoke Putin, because they have no reason to expect his adequate reaction.

To the first reason you claimed I have only one question. What damn right does Russia have to interfere in this issue?

You should understand that no superpower wants another superpower at its doorsteps. Do you know what happens in the Cuban missiles crisis? The same thing happens here. Putin is defending from USA and NATO. Look at the condition of Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan. Similar things will happen in Ukraine too. The USA provoke Ukraine to create tension to Russia's border and now they abandoned Ukraine. All these were done only for saving the failing USA economy by selling arms. Afgan, Iraq, Syria war have lost their heat so not the USA and their ally create another front in Ukraine. All this is business to USA and NATO. They have no sympathy or love for Ukrainians if they do why don't they send troops?

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Quote from: Tash on March 05, 2022, 04:32:45 AM

Consider it done and over with, nazis lost once again. ( Azov = Nazi's = Khazarian Mafia)
https://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/en/news-page/world/leaked-gov-t-document-more-than-40-ukraine-territory-captured-by-russian-army-75-of-ukraine-military-destroyed

Before publishing such fakes, these "documents" should be checked for grammatical and spelling errors. Those who create such fake content should learn the Ukrainian language. Because for a Ukrainian-speaking person, everything is immediately clear.

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Consider it done and over with, nazis lost once again. ( Azov = Nazi's = Khazarian Mafia)
https://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/en/news-page/world/leaked-gov-t-document-more-than-40-ukraine-territory-captured-by-russian-army-75-of-ukraine-military-destroyed

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Quote from: yhiaali3 on March 04, 2022, 11:27:58 PM

I really appreciate your sadness and anger, you are absolutely right, I did not mean that Russia or Putin has the right to interfere in this issue, no country in the world has the right to interfere in the affairs of other countries, this is the simplest principle in international law, but what I meant is that NATO is due to its approach From Russia through Ukraine gave Putin an opportunity to intervene militarily under the pretext of protecting Russia. This is of course unacceptable and an excuse for military intervention only. That is why I said that the Ukrainian people have fallen victim to this international conflict and that both NATO and Russia are guilty of this unjust war on Ukraine.

Unfortunately, Putin is using any NATO action to interpret it against Ukraine. NATO does not want to take us - of course, who needs us but Russia, only Russia can protect us, so let's make sure that only with Russia we can survive and coexist.

NATO is hinting they might take us - Russia sees this as a complete carte blanche to start a full-scale war, because of course, NATO will immediately give us tons of weapons and start producing nuclear weapons in my country for the sole purpose of erasing Russia from the world map.

To anyone capable of rational thinking, it sounds absurd and even ridiculous if it weren't so sad. However, this is the delusion that has been feeding the Russian people for decades. And they don't see anything at all except what a bunch of inadequate people tell them on TV.

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Quote from: Etranger on March 04, 2022, 05:23:23 PM

Thank you for your support! I agree with the second reason, and as a Ukrainian citizen I am very angry, that the West Donets help us preventively with more sanctions, more armament and more essential protection. But at the same time I understand, why they done do it. They are afraid of the possibility of the war, which captures other countries in Europe or even the world. So they try not to provoke Putin, because they have no reason to expect his adequate reaction.

To the first reason you claimed I have only one question. What damn right does Russia have to interfere in this issue?

I really appreciate your sadness and anger, you are absolutely right, I did not mean that Russia or Putin has the right to interfere in this issue, no country in the world has the right to interfere in the affairs of other countries, this is the simplest principle in international law, but what I meant is that NATO is due to its approach From Russia through Ukraine gave Putin an opportunity to intervene militarily under the pretext of protecting Russia. This is of course unacceptable and an excuse for military intervention only. That is why I said that the Ukrainian people have fallen victim to this international conflict and that both NATO and Russia are guilty of this unjust war on Ukraine.

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