Topic: How Satoshi Nakamoto Fooled the World - page 32. (Read 8983 times)

I don't know what companies are thinking or saying. I never waste my time on something like that. I just observe reality and talk about facts. That's why I am also silent on your fantasies.

Snowshow.

Don't go silent on your mental health. It must be devastating for you to see how Bitcoin adoption grows, countries adopt it, big banks start using it, companies invest in it and accept it as a payment.
Don't do this to yourself. It gets harder and harder for you to live happily if you keep lying to yourself. Don't do it.

How do you think in your mind that it is possible that companies accept Bitcoin as a payment but you say that Bitcoin does not exist. Are you saying all the companies, stock exchange ETFs, governments wanting to regulate Bitcoin etc... that they all lie?
And only you know the truth?

You must be devastated with every news about Bitcoin adoption and usage growing.

I am not interested in your fantasies. Sorry.

Factually, you sold nothing. System just increased and decreased the numbers next to addresses and added the results to the blockchain. In short, the Satoshi's system performed some mathematical and technical operations and then the exchange gave you the existing money (liability), that is, 43,000 units of that liability for free.

Of course, you own an address in the system. Just like you own an email address.

Okay, I'll bite. If I don’t own bitcoin, then what do I own? When I go to the exchange and sell my bitcoin for $ 43k, what did I sell? I don't understand what you're really trying to prove here.

Snowshow.
How do you think it will affect your mental health when every day people are using this digital currency which you claim does not exist, more and more? To see how it's value is growing and more companies and banks adopt it to their system?

How do you see yourself handling these news next year? How about in 10 years?

Again, I'm not trying to insult you. I'm trying to show you that where all this is going is not a nice place for your mental health if you keep fighting the reality by lying to yourself that Bitcoin does not exist.

Idea: Would you believe that Bitcoin is real and it has value, if you buy little bit of Bitcoin with your fiat money and then you buy some products with that Bitcoin? Or would you still claim that even when store accepted it as a currency, it still does not exist?

Sure Bitcoin will continue to exist, and it will be redeemable. In imagination. I never said otherwise.

Does everyone make money playing BTC?

No, I am showing you that you own no digital product. And that Satoshi's number which suggests you do, is a fake number. You see how simple it is?

If you've read my posts, you saw that I didn't talk about my feelings, Trump or elections. So, you're imagining things. Just like you're imagining that you own bitcoins.

Btw, "capitalisation" is multiplying the number of shares in SOMETHING (e.g. equity - capital) by market price of that THING. What you have in the Satoshi's scheme is multiplying the sum of numbers in the Satoshi's system by number of dollars that someone paid to get number "1" added to a number next to their address. This has literally nothing to do with capitalisation. But hey, you in bitcoin community are champions of twisting the meaning of words. So it is no wonder you twisted the meaning of the word "capitalisation" also. Nearly everything you do is imagining things and twisting the meaning of words. This discussion is a perfect example of such behavior.

I agree, you should stop with this nonsense. Whatever you're trying to achieve has never worked before, and it won't work now either.
The sun will still shine, the grass will still be green, and Bitcoin will continue to exist, and it will be redeemable. Deal with it.


Right back at you!

Ok. So you don't understand what digital means. You are feeling agry that people are using digital money like Bitcoin as a currency, savings account and investment and you want to use your energy to fight that reality that digital stuff exists. That even when everything digital is in the end lines of code, they can still have value to people.
You sound like Donald Trump supporter claiming still that elections were stolen. Even when literally a country has Bitcoin as their official currency.

You must be fun at parties. Telling people how trillion dollar market cap currency is a scam, 100 million users are wrong and the CEO's of the worlds biggest companies and banks do not understand what you understand.

I can already see you going crazy with more and more about Bitcoin in news. "It's not real, it's not real, it's not real..."

Stop with this nonsense, you cannot fool anyone here. You literally said that you've redeemed Satoshi's numbers. However, "to redeem" means - to fulfill a liability. When a retailer created a gift card he created the liability to take that card back and give the card holder some products or services. When the retailer does that, the liability is fulfilled. This is what it means to redeem - to fulfill the existing liability. So, what you actually said is that you had the liability, and that you then fulfilled that liability. Which is an obvious lie. You had no liability. Neither you nor anyone else in the Satoshi's system. You literally made up that you "redeemed bitcoin", because I demonstrated to you that "liability"(to redeem) is one form of money. Because I demonstrated that liability is something that exists. Given that liabilities don't exist in the Satoshi's system, you simply twisted the meaning of the word "redeem" to create the illusion that this system has "something" behind the numbers. I literally never saw such a bizarre behavior in my life. Why are you doing this? What are you trying to achieve?

Dude, something that is redeemable needs no legally enforcement to be considered redeemable. Money IOUs in gambling sites are redeemable and they don't represent anything other than the units of the game. They don't represent "real tangible" poker chips. They're just "numbers in a database".

And I've already told you that the same happens with cash. When I hand out $100 in cash to you, I don't pay up any debts, I don't create any liabilities, I'm just handing out a number that doesn't represent anything other than the currency whose usage is being enforced.

"Bitcoin" is just a name and you're just an idiot. That was it, I quit.

No, I have no definition of money. I am stating the obvious - money is something. And then I gave the examples of something: liability (to redeem - token, fiat money, bond, gift card...), coin (tangible item like gold). I am also stating the obvious: we use numbers to express the quantity of something. Obviously, people must comunicate somehow to inform each other what and how many units of something is owned or transferred. For communication, numbers and letters are used. Numbers for informing on quantity of things, and letters to inform on name of things.

Bitcoin on the other hand doesn't exist. Something that doesn't exist cannot be money. It cannot be a digital product, or coin, token, commodity, whatever. Nothing cannot have features to be able to fit the definition of a word like "coin". And in the Satoshi's system there's nothing that the holders of the addresses own. Numbers attached to their addresses just create the illusion that a specific quantity of something - digital coins called Bitcoins, exist. The system simply attaches, for e.g. "5" to an address, and then it is claimed that the address holder owns 5 units of something - a thing called bitcoin. But the holder has nothing in their possession. Neither digital nor tangible. The number is simply fake. It's a lie. The whole system is a giant utopia where participants think they own something, while in reality only fake numbers are attached to their addresses.

What is stunning is how people in this discussion twist reality and definitions to be able to claim that nothing is something. I literally never experienced such a bizarre behavior in my life. Claiming that entering into this scheme is redeeming the non-existent item is an example of such behavior. Another example is frantically repeating the name Bitcoin as if people were actually holding a coin in their own hands. The most common behavior is hiding behind cryptographic management of numbers to create the illusion that something valuable is behind the numbers. Anyhow, this is an interesting psychological experiment to watch.

I think we will never get to a consensus here because OP's thinking is based on Keynesian economics, whereas Bitcoin follows Austrian economics.

So, you're not able to back up your claim. I knew that already. I am just showing that none of you have some rational arguments. You're all just repeating the same nonsense.

In finance, redemption describes the repayment of a fixed-income security—such as a Treasury note, certificate of deposit, or bond—on or before its maturity date.

You have literally ignored every possible definition of a financial or economic term in this discussion.All that just to claim that Satoshi's numbers are something they are not. In the same sentence you say that Satoshi's numbers are redeemable, which means someone has liability, and then you say that in Satoshi's system there are no liabilities. For you, it doesn't matter what is reality or truth. You're twisting everything just to fit your narrative. I bet that if Satoshi had written in whitepaper that his system creates airplanes you would have claim that numbers are capable of flying. That what you're doing is a textbook definition of a delusion.

And yet, that's what "redeem" means...
No one deals with liabilities, by default, in our system and that's a feature. We don't have to use debt in such system, unless one wants to borrow money. When you sign a Bitcoin transaction, there's no one promising coins, owing coins etc., it's a settled transaction that cannot be reversed. Just like when you hand out cash.

everyone is free to argue about something and of course it's not just by blaming something that has been real for many people without a solid basis and the op himself wants to do a proof .... which should be done after careful scientific research as evidence of an educated person and if that opinion is true make a responsible paper or media and can be discussed together so as not to fool and argue with others. same round I myself am still stupid in the block chain world but I know many smart and educated people join in it

Why don't you then write a line of code and attach 100BTC to the address bc1qxp6y0reenlxh6sn825fmc8pqyfvmrdk7ed6flj?
Please, set the number 100BTC next to that address (selected a valid address at random), so that it's visible on https://mempool.space/address/bc1qxp6y0reenlxh6sn825fmc8pqyfvmrdk7ed6flj and on my own node as well as any other block explorer. Then it would be proven that BTC isn't real and whatever else you claim.

It's not economics; you haven't understood how Bitcoin works, how mining and transactions work.

That's wrong though. It doesn't have anything to do with economics; as I said, compare to gold. You need to mine it; after that, it has some base value. This value isn't a liability, the value is within the metal itself, because of the energy expended to get it out of the earth and the scarcity of it. But it's not pointing to some liability or debt in some bank. Or do you believe this is wrong and gold only has value because the bank attaches a value to a certain amount of gold?

Except nobody accepts it because it's not created according to the Bitcoin protocol. Same reason why altcoins aren't worth as much as Bitcoins.
You need to show me https://mempool.space/address/[your addr] and somehow get their (and all other) nodes to accept this.

It does transform numbers into gold. That's like saying 'mining gold doesn't make this metal valuable, it's just a rando material' (might as well make wedding rings out of clay or something, right).

Almost! You prove that you are able to spend coins that everyone in the world agrees on, are attached to your address. The ability to spend this coin is the ownership of it.  Like being able to spend a gold coin because you hold it in your hands. It has no value if you can't spend it (e.g. if you lost it or can't access it), right.

Seriously. If you didn't know what a cryptographic signature was, before creating this topic, PLEASE learn first. You proved time and time again that you have no idea. Sure, you can quickly google it, but real understanding takes longer than that. You're incredibly in the wrong here and there's no way for us to convince otherwise if you lack all of the basics, honestly. Do you seriously believe you can discuss this topic without any knowledge (newsflash: you really don't have any knowledge about cryptocurrencies, none at all) about the very thing you are criticizing?

Fucking weak excuse. You could give it away afterwards or burn it (I know - you have no idea about burning coins, either, since you are CLUELESS).

If your definition of money doesn't fit Bitcoin, so be it. But the point stands that you can't just write some number next to an address (creating coins out of thin air). Since people pay lots of money to generate these coins and have them accepted by everyone running nodes, as well as the buyers of these coins, they do have a value.

But this is my last post in this topic. It's a waste of time, as I said.
Please stop wasting your own time as well; if you're not interested in Bitcoin, maybe get a hobby; if you still are, seriously educate yourself first and then we can discuss about what you didn't understand.
Coming into a forum of people that are highly educated and experienced in this field and telling them that all is a 'great lie' without having any idea about any of even the basics of this, is not a good idea. In general.
So long! *unwatch*

The guy who claims something people use for payment everyday does not exist at all, is not interested in "philosophy".

Are you for real? Have you been laughed so hard that only place to talk shit left for you is this forum?

Every bitcoin exists in the blockchain. You cannot take it out as paper money from there. You can only transfer the ownership of those digital coins to some other people. So there is no need to destroy anything.

I am not interested in your philosophy about Satoshi's numbers. You said these numbers are redeemable. Now, back up your claim. Who has the written liability to redeem that numbers and what's the maturity?