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Topic: How Satoshi Nakamoto Fooled the World - page 35. (Read 8983 times)

jr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 1
March 22, 2022, 09:27:49 AM
It's hard for you to understand since you're so engrained in the traditional banking system and assume Bitcoin works the same way.
What they can't comprehend is that Bitcoin is a ledger of transactions, which shows who owns what. They're so obsessed that ledgers must show things that exist, that we'll probably never change their minds.

I'm still waiting an answer to this:
But, even if you don't believe us, even though we should have convinced you by now, what about the rest of the world? There are unbelievably smarter people than me and you who are astonished by the way it works and fight tooth and nail to accomplish usage in a global scale. Doesn't it seem extravagant to you to say that every single one of the millions of Bitcoin users is a psycho?
Unless you think you're the smartest.
WOW, really? Bitcoin is a ledger of transactions? Nice. Now everyone can just download the ledger and have bitcoins. For free. Hahaha. I am really having fun. It's so amusing to read your rationalizations that try to justify Satoshi's sacred text. Keep up the good work.
hero member
Activity: 2786
Merit: 657
Want top-notch marketing for your project, Hire me
March 22, 2022, 09:26:21 AM
It was fun reading everything the Op said about Bitcoin and the great exciting part is when the Op said she "discovered is that bitcoin system is not actually a payment system. Instead, it is a messaging system, similar to SMS, Viber, WhatsApp, or Email" and ' From that discovery, it follows that Bitcoin itself is not money, but a message"
When money was said to be a commodity thats generally accepted as payment for goods and services. For the record, Bitcoin has all these attributes and I am surprised with the Op level of naiveness about Bitcoin.

legendary
Activity: 1820
Merit: 2700
Crypto Swap Exchange
March 22, 2022, 09:12:42 AM
Internet is used by nodes to store fake numbers. Without the internet there wouldn't be bitcoin fraud.

I didn't ask you to tell me what is Internet compared to Bitcoin. I asked you to tell me how can you prove that Internet exists? If you can accept the fact that Internet is used for two computers to communicate, then Bitcoin's proof of existence is the fact that it is used to trade.
Internet is computers and communication protocols. Those exist. Bitcoin is not "used" given it doesn't exist. Numbers are attached to address by Satoshi's system. Attaching numbers is a proof that numbers are attached. Attaching letters is proof that letters are attached. Attaching a picture to a email message is proof that a picture is attached. No bitcoins magically emerge by attaching one thing to another. You believe in some sort of alchemy. Try to use your brains for a second instead of repeating the same nonsense over and over again.

Your level of your ignorance is astounding.

The Internet exists. Okay, I agree. But does the DNS protocol exist? It is also just a collection of numbers attached to addresses by your definition. Denying the use of Bitcoin is the same as denying the use of DNS. Could you please show me the DNS? No? You can't see it, hear it, or touch it, yet it exists and billions of people use it every day.

So, how much do you pay for using DNS protocols? And how much do you pay for attaching the number "10" to your crypto address in Satoshi's system? Do you now understand the true meaning of the phrase: "Your level of your ignorance is astounding."?

How much I pay for the DNS system isn't relevant to the discussion. Do you think it's free?

Let's get back on topic. Do you now deny the existence of Bitcoin or do you imply that it is too expensive?



Yes, bitcoin doesn't exist. Numbers do, if you attach them to someone's name. So, you cannot show a digital asset called bitcoin. You can show numbers. If you say that 5 digital books or movies exist you are not supposed to show number 5. But books and movies. Can you comprehend something so simple?

Yes, bitcoin is intangible. Everything is digital. What's your point?
Has anyone here ever claimed otherwise? But just because you can't touch it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Can you comprehend something so simple? Wink
jr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 1
March 22, 2022, 09:06:46 AM
So, how much do you pay for using DNS protocols? And how much do you pay for attaching the number "10" to your crypto address in Satoshi's system? Do you now understand the true meaning of the phrase: "Your level of your ignorance is astounding."?

Oh, now it's not the matter of existence, is it? You told me that Bitcoin doesn't exist because you can't show it to someone. We told you that communication protocols like DNS also can't be shown to someone but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

Using of DNS protocol is free. But guess what - using of Bitcoin is also free. You have to pay if you want to own Bitcoin, but you don't have to pay to use it.
Yes, bitcoin doesn't exist. Numbers do, if you attach them to someone's name. So, you cannot show a digital asset called bitcoin. You can show numbers. If you say that 5 digital books or movies exist you are not supposed to show number 5. But books and movies. Can you comprehend something so simple?
full member
Activity: 287
Merit: 159
March 22, 2022, 09:01:10 AM
Internet is computers and communication protocols. Those exist. Bitcoin is not "used" given it doesn't exist. Numbers are attached to address by Satoshi's system. Attaching numbers is a proof that numbers are attached. Attaching letters is proof that letters are attached. Attaching a picture to a email message is proof that a picture is attached. No bitcoins magically emerge by attaching one thing to another. You believe in some sort of alchemy. Try to use your brains for a second instead of repeating the same nonsense over and over again.

Your level of your ignorance is astounding.

The Internet exists. Okay, I agree. But does the DNS protocol exist? It is also just a collection of numbers attached to addresses by your definition. Denying the use of Bitcoin is the same as denying the use of DNS. Could you please show me the DNS? No? You can't see it, hear it, or touch it, yet it exists and billions of people use it every day.


I think he will never admit that he is wrong about the fact that Bitcoin does not exist. He says that Internet is computers and communication protocols. OK, you can see and touch computers. But can you see and touch a communication protocol (like DNS in this example)? If you can't touch it, I guess it doesn't exist so I don't really know how does my computer know what web site to display when I enter bitcointalk.org into the address bar.
It can even go further than proving the existence of DNS.  How about proving that "numbers" are being added up inside a computer. Can you touch a number that is running around inside a computer?  Since numbers aren't "real", and they are just an idea ... what then is happening inside of a computer's processor.  It really is just low voltages being compared from one transistor to another, a 0 volt here, a 3 volt there.  Those voltages aren't "numbers".  This then suggests that nothing is happening inside of any computer, and therefore nothing with a computer is possible, let alone communication via an internet.

Delusional minds derive delusional thoughts.

Here a quote from Bill Murray seems appropriate:

Quote
It's hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it's damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person.

legendary
Activity: 2632
Merit: 1239
March 22, 2022, 08:59:42 AM
So, how much do you pay for using DNS protocols? And how much do you pay for attaching the number "10" to your crypto address in Satoshi's system? Do you now understand the true meaning of the phrase: "Your level of your ignorance is astounding."?

Oh, now it's not the matter of existence, is it? You told me that Bitcoin doesn't exist because you can't show it to someone. We told you that communication protocols like DNS also can't be shown to someone but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

Using of DNS protocol is free. But guess what - using of Bitcoin is also free. You have to pay if you want to own Bitcoin, but you don't have to pay to use it.
jr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 1
March 22, 2022, 08:55:13 AM
Internet is used by nodes to store fake numbers. Without the internet there wouldn't be bitcoin fraud.

I didn't ask you to tell me what is Internet compared to Bitcoin. I asked you to tell me how can you prove that Internet exists? If you can accept the fact that Internet is used for two computers to communicate, then Bitcoin's proof of existence is the fact that it is used to trade.
Internet is computers and communication protocols. Those exist. Bitcoin is not "used" given it doesn't exist. Numbers are attached to address by Satoshi's system. Attaching numbers is a proof that numbers are attached. Attaching letters is proof that letters are attached. Attaching a picture to a email message is proof that a picture is attached. No bitcoins magically emerge by attaching one thing to another. You believe in some sort of alchemy. Try to use your brains for a second instead of repeating the same nonsense over and over again.

Your level of your ignorance is astounding.

The Internet exists. Okay, I agree. But does the DNS protocol exist? It is also just a collection of numbers attached to addresses by your definition. Denying the use of Bitcoin is the same as denying the use of DNS. Could you please show me the DNS? No? You can't see it, hear it, or touch it, yet it exists and billions of people use it every day.

So, how much do you pay for using DNS protocols? And how much do you pay for attaching the number "10" to your crypto address in Satoshi's system? Do you now understand the true meaning of the phrase: "Your level of your ignorance is astounding."?
You are not storing or moving value, but numbers. A number is a concept on quantity of things. A thing is value, not a number. If there's a number "10", next to your name or address, this is suggesting that there are 10 pieces of a thing in your possession. But if the thing is not in your possession, the number is fake. And that's exactly the case with bitcoin. There's no such thing as bitcoin in the possession of an address holder which has a specific number attached to their address. So, blockchain is just a giant collection of fake numbers. And bitcoin cannot be value by definition, given it doesn't exist.
This is where you're wrong: in Bitcoin there are two 'numbers': (1) the number telling how many coins you own, which is like the number of USD on your bank account, sure that's just a number. But you have number (2) which is a cryptographic key that grants you ownership rights to a certain amount of Bitcoin. This second number would be the 'ounce of gold' sitting in your safe, for instance, while the first one is the valuation that someone gives it.

As someone said before, if Bitcoin is just numbers and it's so easy to generate them, why don't you generate such a number (private key) and sell it for hundreds of thousands of dollars?

It's not possible because a randomly generated number has no value; only those which have Bitcoin sent to them, originating from a coinbase transaction which you can only do by expending large amounts of energy using mining hardware that costs large amounts of $ to buy and install.

Saying or writing down that you own 5 ounces of gold, means you're able to show an actual metal in your possession. Otherwise you're lying. Whan you say that you own 5 bitcoins, or this is written down in your wallet, but you're not able to show a digital product in the quantity of 5, that means you're lying and that the wallet has fake numbers.
It's hard for you to understand since you're so engrained in the traditional banking system and assume Bitcoin works the same way. While your bank account just tells you the number of something you own, the Bitcoin blockchain doesn't. The 'thing you own' is on the blockchain; hence it doesn't and can't 'point to something in your possession'.
When I go to a web site or install the wallet app to get a cryptographic key, and "0" is attached to my address, suggesting I own 0 coins, how that differs from a guy that has 1,000,000 attached? We both have zero property to show. There's no difference in ownership between us. If you were to ask that guy to prove that he actually owns million coins he wouldn't be able to show something that I am not able to show. We both have numbers attached, but own no bitcoins. No coins. No money. No property. Nothing. It's like if a system would write down that I have 0 Porsches and that guy have 10 Porsches. None of us would be able to show Porsches. So, one can attach whatever number to whatever name. That literally means nothing.

A randomly generated number is still a number. It's not a cat. A randomly generated Ferrari would still be a Ferrari. It doesn't matter how you generate something. If I work 10 hours a day for a year and get the same amount of money as someone who win a lottery that doesn't mean my money is more valuable.

legendary
Activity: 2632
Merit: 1239
March 22, 2022, 08:47:41 AM
Internet is computers and communication protocols. Those exist. Bitcoin is not "used" given it doesn't exist. Numbers are attached to address by Satoshi's system. Attaching numbers is a proof that numbers are attached. Attaching letters is proof that letters are attached. Attaching a picture to a email message is proof that a picture is attached. No bitcoins magically emerge by attaching one thing to another. You believe in some sort of alchemy. Try to use your brains for a second instead of repeating the same nonsense over and over again.

Your level of your ignorance is astounding.

The Internet exists. Okay, I agree. But does the DNS protocol exist? It is also just a collection of numbers attached to addresses by your definition. Denying the use of Bitcoin is the same as denying the use of DNS. Could you please show me the DNS? No? You can't see it, hear it, or touch it, yet it exists and billions of people use it every day.


I think he will never admit that he is wrong about the fact that Bitcoin does not exist. He says that Internet is computers and communication protocols. OK, you can see and touch computers. But can you see and touch a communication protocol (like DNS in this example)? If you can't touch it, I guess it doesn't exist so I don't really know how does my computer know what web site to display when I enter bitcointalk.org into the address bar.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 7340
Farewell, Leo
March 22, 2022, 08:38:02 AM
It's hard for you to understand since you're so engrained in the traditional banking system and assume Bitcoin works the same way.
What they can't comprehend is that Bitcoin is a ledger of transactions, which shows who owns what. They're so obsessed that ledgers must show things that exist, that we'll probably never change their minds.

I'm still waiting an answer to this:
But, even if you don't believe us, even though we should have convinced you by now, what about the rest of the world? There are unbelievably smarter people than me and you who are astonished by the way it works and fight tooth and nail to accomplish usage in a global scale. Doesn't it seem extravagant to you to say that every single one of the millions of Bitcoin users is a psycho?
Unless you think you're the smartest.
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 5935
not your keys, not your coins!
March 22, 2022, 08:16:45 AM
You are not storing or moving value, but numbers. A number is a concept on quantity of things. A thing is value, not a number. If there's a number "10", next to your name or address, this is suggesting that there are 10 pieces of a thing in your possession. But if the thing is not in your possession, the number is fake. And that's exactly the case with bitcoin. There's no such thing as bitcoin in the possession of an address holder which has a specific number attached to their address. So, blockchain is just a giant collection of fake numbers. And bitcoin cannot be value by definition, given it doesn't exist.
This is where you're wrong: in Bitcoin there are two 'numbers': (1) the number telling how many coins you own, which is like the number of USD on your bank account, sure that's just a number. But you have number (2) which is a cryptographic key that grants you ownership rights to a certain amount of Bitcoin. This second number would be the 'ounce of gold' sitting in your safe, for instance, while the first one is the valuation that someone gives it.

As someone said before, if Bitcoin is just numbers and it's so easy to generate them, why don't you generate such a number (private key) and sell it for hundreds of thousands of dollars?

It's not possible because a randomly generated number has no value; only those which have Bitcoin sent to them, originating from a coinbase transaction which you can only do by expending large amounts of energy using mining hardware that costs large amounts of $ to buy and install.

Saying or writing down that you own 5 ounces of gold, means you're able to show an actual metal in your possession. Otherwise you're lying. Whan you say that you own 5 bitcoins, or this is written down in your wallet, but you're not able to show a digital product in the quantity of 5, that means you're lying and that the wallet has fake numbers.
It's hard for you to understand since you're so engrained in the traditional banking system and assume Bitcoin works the same way. While your bank account just tells you the number of something you own, the Bitcoin blockchain doesn't. The 'thing you own' is on the blockchain; hence it doesn't and can't 'point to something in your possession'.
legendary
Activity: 1820
Merit: 2700
Crypto Swap Exchange
March 22, 2022, 08:14:33 AM
Internet is used by nodes to store fake numbers. Without the internet there wouldn't be bitcoin fraud.

I didn't ask you to tell me what is Internet compared to Bitcoin. I asked you to tell me how can you prove that Internet exists? If you can accept the fact that Internet is used for two computers to communicate, then Bitcoin's proof of existence is the fact that it is used to trade.
Internet is computers and communication protocols. Those exist. Bitcoin is not "used" given it doesn't exist. Numbers are attached to address by Satoshi's system. Attaching numbers is a proof that numbers are attached. Attaching letters is proof that letters are attached. Attaching a picture to a email message is proof that a picture is attached. No bitcoins magically emerge by attaching one thing to another. You believe in some sort of alchemy. Try to use your brains for a second instead of repeating the same nonsense over and over again.

Your level of your ignorance is astounding.

The Internet exists. Okay, I agree. But does the DNS protocol exist? It is also just a collection of numbers attached to addresses by your definition. Denying the use of Bitcoin is the same as denying the use of DNS. Could you please show me the DNS? No? You can't see it, hear it, or touch it, yet it exists and billions of people use it every day.
jr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 1
March 22, 2022, 07:59:00 AM
People don't agree that the ladger is satisfactory
Guess what: You don't get to choose what others agree upon. I personally find it very useful, if others find it so. Transferring value across the borders, with no one's permission. No one can alter past transactions of the ledger, no matter the good excuse. The costs to transact are nearly zero. It's more private. It's faster.

Even if those units don't represent anything, I don't have a problem as long as there are others who're also willing to accept it same like I do. What the hell is so difficult to grasp about that?
Well, I don't have a problem if you and others agree that you are a bird and able to fly. I am simply debunking your nonsense. You are not a bird. You are not able to fly. You are not transferring value. There's no bitcoin. Do we now understand each other?
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 7340
Farewell, Leo
March 22, 2022, 07:50:06 AM
People don't agree that the ladger is satisfactory
Guess what: You don't get to choose what others agree upon. I personally find it very useful, if others find it so. Transferring value across the borders, with no one's permission. No one can alter past transactions of the ledger, no matter the good excuse. The costs to transact are nearly zero. It's more private. It's faster.

Even if those units don't represent anything, I don't have a problem as long as there are others who're also willing to accept it same like I do. What the hell is so difficult to grasp about that?
jr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 1
March 22, 2022, 07:45:30 AM
Internet is used by nodes to store fake numbers. Without the internet there wouldn't be bitcoin fraud.

I didn't ask you to tell me what is Internet compared to Bitcoin. I asked you to tell me how can you prove that Internet exists? If you can accept the fact that Internet is used for two computers to communicate, then Bitcoin's proof of existence is the fact that it is used to trade.
Internet is computers and communication protocols. Those exist. Bitcoin is not "used" given it doesn't exist. Numbers are attached to address by Satoshi's system. Attaching numbers is a proof that numbers are attached. Attaching letters is proof that letters are attached. Attaching a picture to a email message is proof that a picture is attached. No bitcoins magically emerge by attaching one thing to another. You believe in some sort of alchemy. Try to use your brains for a second instead of repeating the same nonsense over and over again.
jr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 1
March 22, 2022, 07:34:59 AM
People use a medium of exchange that is not credit all the time. However, this medium of exchange exists. That's the whole point. A thing must exist to be able to be exchanged. Bitcoin doesn't exist so there's nothing to exchange.
And I repeat;
As long as they agree that the ledger is satisfactory, they can use that one to deal with, even if the ledger represents things that don't exist tangibly and only have a unit-representation.
What's your problem if people choose to do that?
You're again talking nonsense. People don't agree that the ladger is satisfactory, whatever that means, but to have numbers stored to their address. And they do that because they falsely believe these numbers quantify a digital asset called bitcoin. They believe so, because thay accepted Satoshi's paper at face value. Or because they fall for false narrative and misleading information spread throughout social media.
hero member
Activity: 2464
Merit: 519
March 22, 2022, 07:32:51 AM
When you read articles of conspiracy theory from people close to Warren Buffet ( too old to understand financial technology innovation), this will be how they will view bitcoin.
legendary
Activity: 2632
Merit: 1239
March 22, 2022, 07:29:12 AM
Internet is used by nodes to store fake numbers. Without the internet there wouldn't be bitcoin fraud.

I didn't ask you to tell me what is Internet compared to Bitcoin. I asked you to tell me how can you prove that Internet exists? If you can accept the fact that Internet is used for two computers to communicate, then Bitcoin's proof of existence is the fact that it is used to trade.
jr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 1
March 22, 2022, 07:27:00 AM
This is literally crazy. How do you know that bitcoin is "a thing" and that it is "new" if you're unable to prove its existence? Where're 5 things that the person bought after number 5 was attached to their address? What is that mega expensive product that the person paid $40.000 a piece? All you do is repeating "Bitcoin is this", Bitcoin is that" like a broken record, without proving anything.

You didn't answer me how is Internet different than Bitcoin? How can you prove existence of the Internet? And don't say that we are talking about Bitcoin and not Internet. I want to hear from you how do you prove that Internet is a thing. Maybe that will give me an idea how to prove that Bitcoin is a thing.
Internet is used by nodes to store fake numbers. Without the internet there wouldn't be bitcoin fraud.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 7340
Farewell, Leo
March 22, 2022, 07:02:53 AM
People use a medium of exchange that is not credit all the time. However, this medium of exchange exists. That's the whole point. A thing must exist to be able to be exchanged. Bitcoin doesn't exist so there's nothing to exchange.
And I repeat;
As long as they agree that the ledger is satisfactory, they can use that one to deal with, even if the ledger represents things that don't exist tangibly and only have a unit-representation.
What's your problem if people choose to do that?
sr. member
Activity: 2436
Merit: 455
March 22, 2022, 06:50:00 AM
I don't think you fully comprehend the idea of how bitcoin works. Bitcoin isn't just a messaging system. It is so much more than that. Bitcoin is a mode of transaction as well as store of value. It serves these two main purposes with the help of blockchain technology. To say that it's sole purpose is messaging would be insulting it.

Digital technology exists, and it proves just how the bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies exist too. You can't just claim that they don't just because you are used to traditional and tangible ones. I suggest that you make a more in-depth research about it so that you'll be enlightened. I'm glad to read that people here in forum are educating and not really mocking.
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