How Satoshi Nakamoto Fooled the World - page 38.

slackovic

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Quote from: Snowshow on March 21, 2022, 02:18:18 AM

Well, then show me the money. I see math symbols attached to addresses. These symbols are informing the address holders that they have a specific quantity of a digital product called bitcoin. Someone calls it money/token/coin/asset/commodity. But, where is it? Show me that the info is not fake.

I'm really fascinated about two things. The first thing I'm fascinated about is that you are still coming back after all those years. Don't bother convincing me or anyone on this forum that you are not the same person as antikvark, fxsurfer, antithesis or some other account I can't remember. It's clear that you are the same person and you will probably be banned again for ban evasion.

The second thing I'm fascinated about is that you always come to this forum during the bear market. How come you don't post anything when Bitcoin is in a bull run?

Snowshow

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Quote from: DooMAD on March 20, 2022, 01:37:10 PM

Quote from: savetheFORUM on March 20, 2022, 09:11:33 AM

If someone wants to go against you, defend what they are saying and not try to learn more about an argument, you will not get anything about it. I personally believe that a healthy discussion should involve both sides trying to learn each other's opinion and maybe they won't change their views but at least understand each other, whereas there are some people who argue with you just because they want to argue and not even care about your point of view and try to understand it.

There are limits to that, though. It assumes good intent on both sides, which really wasn't the case here. This was never going to be a healthy discussion. When someone like the OP is determined to hold a dishonest and overtly hostile position from start to finish, it's certainly not healthy for the community to allow them to spread misinformation totally unopposed.

Quote from: Snowshow on March 18, 2022, 12:35:14 AM

I see no money.

And you're certainly not the only one. There are plenty of people out there who either don't get it, thinks it's fake, or believe it has no value. But do you know what you have in common with such people?

Those who are blind to opportunities are unable to seize upon them.

If you miss out because you were too ignorant to see the light, it's your own stupid fault. And I'm pretty certain you're going to regret it one day.

Assuming you don't already, that is. I'm actually starting to wonder if maybe your fixation with registering all these accounts and spouting all this hostility for all these years is nothing more than bitterness on your part, since you know you messed up by not being a part of this earlier when you had the chance. It must suck to be you if I'm right.

Well, then show me the money. I see math symbols attached to addresses. These symbols are informing the address holders that they have a specific quantity of a digital product called bitcoin. Someone calls it money/token/coin/asset/commodity. But, where is it? Show me that the info is not fake.

Snowshow

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on March 20, 2022, 06:22:18 AM

Quote from: Snowshow on March 20, 2022, 04:42:52 AM

It doesn't matter what is reality.

But, does it or not after all?

Anyway, you don't want to understand. I'll leave you to your own desperation.

Your opinion on my understanding or desperation is irrelevant. Non of your opinions about me are important. What is important is that the whole army of people has fell for a false narrative on bitcoin's existence. Essentially what we have is a giant fraud where people are told they are buying an asset called bitcoin but only mathematical symbols on concept of quantity are attached to their names (addresses). This is a way more important thing than your opinion on me.

DooMAD

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Quote from: savetheFORUM on March 20, 2022, 09:11:33 AM

If someone wants to go against you, defend what they are saying and not try to learn more about an argument, you will not get anything about it. I personally believe that a healthy discussion should involve both sides trying to learn each other's opinion and maybe they won't change their views but at least understand each other, whereas there are some people who argue with you just because they want to argue and not even care about your point of view and try to understand it.

There are limits to that, though. It assumes good intent on both sides, which really wasn't the case here. This was never going to be a healthy discussion. When someone like the OP is determined to hold a dishonest and overtly hostile position from start to finish, it's certainly not healthy for the community to allow them to spread misinformation totally unopposed.

Quote from: Snowshow on March 18, 2022, 12:35:14 AM

I see no money.

And you're certainly not the only one. There are plenty of people out there who either don't get it, thinks it's fake, or believe it has no value. But do you know what you have in common with such people?

Those who are blind to opportunities are unable to seize upon them.

If you miss out because you were too ignorant to see the light, it's your own stupid fault. And I'm pretty certain you're going to regret it one day.

Assuming you don't already, that is. I'm actually starting to wonder if maybe your fixation with registering all these accounts and spouting all this hostility for all these years is nothing more than bitterness on your part, since you know you messed up by not being a part of this earlier when you had the chance. It must suck to be you if I'm right.

rby

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I was patient to read to the end in order to ensure I understood OP. What OP meant in essence is that btc is valueless, btc is a mere alphanumeric digits that could be generated at random from a think air. Also that what makes it look like btc has value is the cryptography (blockchain). That though blockchain has some usefulness, but the bitcoin it carries has no fortune. It is quite surprising to me that all I have been doing my life is sending sms to people thinking it's money.

Let us assume OP was right. I have my local bank app in my phone which I use to do transactions, just few minutes ago I sent my niece her school fees with more tips on it. How excited she was for something that has no value. I messaged her initially, saying "how are you" she wasn't excited, but when I sent her bitcoin message she became the happiest in the campus. This can mean that bitcoin has not value, it is just a message, but the message it carries has value.

Then you said about ownership right. Does it mean that all my life I have been deceiving myself with my private keys, thinking that it is my ownership right? Mehn! I could not clink your link, I don't want further crap.

savetheFORUM

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on March 18, 2022, 01:30:59 PM

Quote from: Snowshow on March 18, 2022, 01:11:37 PM

Now, can you finally tell me where's this product? And how it looks like.

Where's this "dollar" product? How does it look like? Undecided

It turns out that we disagree of what's money. You say that it's solely debt. I agree with this definition:

Quote

the fact or quality of being generally accepted or in use.

And Bitcoin fulfills it.

If someone wants to go against you, defend what they are saying and not try to learn more about an argument, you will not get anything about it. I personally believe that a healthy discussion should involve both sides trying to learn each other's opinion and maybe they won't change their views but at least understand each other, whereas there are some people who argue with you just because they want to argue and not even care about your point of view and try to understand it.

Bitcoin is obviously a currency, and it fulfils all of the descriptions and it will always be there, we have a marketcap of 1+ trillion dollars, it doesn't matter if someone puts an argument against it, we already accepted it long time ago.

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

Quote from: Snowshow on March 20, 2022, 04:42:52 AM

It doesn't matter what is reality.

But, does it or not after all?

Anyway, you don't want to understand. I'll leave you to your own desperation.

Snowshow

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Quote from: FatFork on March 20, 2022, 04:22:29 AM

Quote from: Snowshow on March 19, 2022, 11:49:45 PM

Quote from: FatFork on March 19, 2022, 04:35:48 PM

Quote from: Snowshow on March 19, 2022, 03:12:13 PM

Like I have said. Human capacity for imaginary creation is enormous. So, some of you are obsessed with some guy that is been trolling in this forum. And now I am that guy because I have stated some facts in this topic. Hahaha. What else are you gonna come up with?

So you're saying you're not that guy? You're not from Croatia (or don't speak Croatian)?

I am saying nothing. I have posted rhetorical question because you are saying something about some guy on this topic. You are ignoring the subject of the topic and trying to have conversations about a person. You are imagining something about someone and expect from me to verify your fictions by revealing my personal info. I am simply not playing your trolling game.

And that tells me everything. It's really amazing how creative you can be when forced into a corner.

Here are a few more details to substantiate my "fiction".

A few days before you created a new account here and started this topic, you posted this on Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/tc0wkg/comment/i0c6edy/

You use the nickname "Policajac", which is a Croatian word for policeman. This indicates you are from Croatia or speak Croatian. Both, "fxsurfer" and "antikvark", were active in the Croatian local. Coincidence?

Like I've said. These ideas, theories, indications or whatever are just products of your imagination. I am not forced into a corner. I am simply not playing your games. I started this topic and talk about the subject. You on the other hand are preforming some kind of investigation trying to find out whether I am some guy. Even that text on Reddit. How do you know I wrote it. How do you know it is not just someone's copy/paste? The point is that you see what you want to see. It doesn't matter what is reality. What matters is what constructs you created in your mind. You will always perceive the world according to these constructs. The same is with bitcoin. In reality there's no bitcoin. But you people created the whole magical kingdom of bitcoin based on your imaginary constructs. So, why would I play this game of yours? It's a waste of time.

FatFork

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Quote from: Snowshow on March 19, 2022, 11:49:45 PM

Quote from: FatFork on March 19, 2022, 04:35:48 PM

Quote from: Snowshow on March 19, 2022, 03:12:13 PM

Like I have said. Human capacity for imaginary creation is enormous. So, some of you are obsessed with some guy that is been trolling in this forum. And now I am that guy because I have stated some facts in this topic. Hahaha. What else are you gonna come up with?

So you're saying you're not that guy? You're not from Croatia (or don't speak Croatian)?

I am saying nothing. I have posted rhetorical question because you are saying something about some guy on this topic. You are ignoring the subject of the topic and trying to have conversations about a person. You are imagining something about someone and expect from me to verify your fictions by revealing my personal info. I am simply not playing your trolling game.

And that tells me everything. It's really amazing how creative you can be when forced into a corner.

Here are a few more details to substantiate my "fiction".

A few days before you created a new account here and started this topic, you posted this on Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/tc0wkg/comment/i0c6edy/

You use the nickname "Policajac", which is a Croatian word for policeman. This indicates you are from Croatia or speak Croatian. Both, "fxsurfer" and "antikvark", were active in the Croatian local. Coincidence?

Snowshow

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on March 20, 2022, 02:48:07 AM

Quote from: Snowshow on March 19, 2022, 11:49:45 PM

[...]

Don't bullshit a bullshitter. Just admit it and move on.

I am simply not falling for your games. Everyone of us can write here whatever they want about themselves or others. It's just words and mean nothing. The point is that you've lost this discussion about bitcoin's non-existence and you cannot accept the loss. For that reason you are engaging in ad hominem attacks. From playing semantics you've moved to ad hominems. Just admit you were wrong and move on. Admit that you were fool to took Satoshi's paper at face value and that's it. Satoshi is probably someone uneducated in finance and economy so they didn't know that attaching numbers to a name doesn't constitute a payment to that name. And that money is an actual thing and not a concept about quantity. Stop following the herd and treating the words of some economically uneducated person as the Bible. Use your brains. Like I do.

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

Quote from: Snowshow on March 19, 2022, 11:49:45 PM

[...]

Don't bullshit a bullshitter. Just admit it and move on.

Snowshow

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Merit: 1

Quote from: FatFork on March 19, 2022, 04:35:48 PM

Quote from: Snowshow on March 19, 2022, 03:12:13 PM

Like I have said. Human capacity for imaginary creation is enormous. So, some of you are obsessed with some guy that is been trolling in this forum. And now I am that guy because I have stated some facts in this topic. Hahaha. What else are you gonna come up with?

So you're saying you're not that guy? You're not from Croatia (or don't speak Croatian)?

I am saying nothing. I have posted rhetorical question because you are saying something about some guy on this topic. You are ignoring the subject of the topic and trying to have conversations about a person. You are imagining something about someone and expect from me to verify your fictions by revealing my personal info. I am simply not playing your trolling game.

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on March 19, 2022, 05:54:23 PM

Quote from: Snowshow on March 19, 2022, 03:12:13 PM

They can fantasize about bitcoin, talk about it, dream about its wonderful features. But in reality all that exist are address and numbers attached to them. Nothing else.

It needs creativity from your part. You, specifically, lack in it.

Quote from: Snowshow on March 19, 2022, 03:12:13 PM

So, some of you are obsessed with some guy that is been trolling in this forum.

No, you're indeed that guy and I can understand this from your writing style. For example, you use the same words/phrases they used ("Sherlock", "non-existent" etc.), you quote posts exactly as they did. You're also the only person who keeps opening this kind of topics.

Do you ever have the feeling that you're the smartest person in the room? Like, so smart no one understands you?

So, you also. Ignoring the subject of the topic and fantasizing about the person who started the topic. Why are you posting your fantasies and theories about a person on this topic?

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

Quote from: Snowshow on March 19, 2022, 03:12:13 PM

They can fantasize about bitcoin, talk about it, dream about its wonderful features. But in reality all that exist are address and numbers attached to them. Nothing else.

It needs creativity from your part. You, specifically, lack in it.

Quote from: Snowshow on March 19, 2022, 03:12:13 PM

So, some of you are obsessed with some guy that is been trolling in this forum.

No, you're indeed that guy and I can understand this from your writing style. For example, you use the same words/phrases they used ("Sherlock", "non-existent" etc.), you quote posts exactly as they did. You're also the only person who keeps opening this kind of topics.

Do you ever have the feeling that you're the smartest person in the room? Like, so smart no one understands you?

FatFork

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Quote from: Snowshow on March 19, 2022, 03:12:13 PM

Like I have said. Human capacity for imaginary creation is enormous. So, some of you are obsessed with some guy that is been trolling in this forum. And now I am that guy because I have stated some facts in this topic. Hahaha. What else are you gonna come up with?

So you're saying you're not that guy? You're not from Croatia (or don't speak Croatian)?

Snowshow

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on March 19, 2022, 09:31:46 AM

Quote from: Snowshow on March 19, 2022, 09:26:44 AM

All that the individuals can agree to is for numbers to be attached to their address. Transactions, on the other hand, can only be performed with existing things. Such as debt, equity, commodity, etc.

Focus on what I write to you and don't repeat the same bullshit all over again.

Quote from: Snowshow on March 19, 2022, 09:26:44 AM

https://bitcoin.it/ is a website with some text on it. There are no bitcoins there.

We don't communicate. These are the "wonderful features" you asked for.

Human language is rich and humans have an enormous capacity for imaginary creation. So they can say and write all sorts of things that don't corespondent to reality and facts. They can fantasize about bitcoin, talk about it, dream about its wonderful features. But in reality all that exist are address and numbers attached to them. Nothing else. And that's not bullshit. That's the way things actually are. It's called reality. For those who deny it over and over again, it is necessary to repeat it over and over again.

Quote from: dezoel on March 19, 2022, 02:29:11 PM

Maybe that’s your own understanding of what Bitcoin is all about. But I don’t really agree with you on that because of the part where you said that people receive Bitcoin without receiving ownership of the property (asset). Anyone who receives Bitcoin receives full ownership of the Bitcoin that they have received in their wallet. As long as you have the private keys to that wallet then the bitcoins that are stored there belongs to you.

The only time I would say that you don’t have ownership of the wallet is when you are making use of custodial wallets whereby you wouldn’t have control over your private keys and the only thing you do is to just give order to execute transactions and nothing more.

I was wrong. People don't receive bitcoin. Bitcoin doesn't exist. Only numbers are attached to people's addresses. Also they don't receive that numbers, but just watch them after they are attached. I have unfortunately feel for the false narrative and think bitcoin is something that exists. In this topic, thanks to you guys, I've realized there's no such thing as bitcoin

Quote from: FatFork on March 19, 2022, 02:46:41 PM

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on March 16, 2022, 03:35:17 PM

Yes, it's this guy called "Antithesis" who dislikes that we're dealing with a different kind of currency they disapprove of.

Yea, I'm sure this is the same guy. This genius keeps popping up every now and then with his 'Bitcoin has no value' FUD.
He is probably Croatian (or at least Croatian-speaking), but since we've doxed his ass, he no longer has the balls to post in a Croatian local section. The guy works for a government financial agency, so he has some background in economics, but when it comes to anything else he is as thick as a plank.

He's been spreading FUD and trolling here for years, and he starts over every time with a fresh new account.

Known alt accounts:
fxsurfer [BANNED]
antikvark
Antithesis

So, don't feed the troll! Cheesy

Like I have said. Human capacity for imaginary creation is enormous. So, some of you are obsessed with some guy that is been trolling in this forum. And now I am that guy because I have stated some facts in this topic. Hahaha. What else are you gonna come up with?

FatFork

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on March 16, 2022, 03:35:17 PM

Yes, it's this guy called "Antithesis" who dislikes that we're dealing with a different kind of currency they disapprove of.

Yea, I'm sure this is the same guy. This genius keeps popping up every now and then with his 'Bitcoin has no value' FUD.
He is probably Croatian (or at least Croatian-speaking), but since we've doxed his ass, he no longer has the balls to post in a Croatian local section. The guy works for a government financial agency, so he has some background in economics, but when it comes to anything else he is as thick as a plank.

He's been spreading FUD and trolling here for years, and he starts over every time with a fresh new account.

Known alt accounts:
fxsurfer [BANNED]
antikvark
Antithesis

So, don't feed the troll! Cheesy

dezoel

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Maybe that’s your own understanding of what Bitcoin is all about. But I don’t really agree with you on that because of the part where you said that people receive Bitcoin without receiving ownership of the property (asset). Anyone who receives Bitcoin receives full ownership of the Bitcoin that they have received in their wallet. As long as you have the private keys to that wallet then the bitcoins that are stored there belongs to you.

The only time I would say that you don’t have ownership of the wallet is when you are making use of custodial wallets whereby you wouldn’t have control over your private keys and the only thing you do is to just give order to execute transactions and nothing more.

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

Quote from: Snowshow on March 19, 2022, 09:26:44 AM

All that the individuals can agree to is for numbers to be attached to their address. Transactions, on the other hand, can only be performed with existing things. Such as debt, equity, commodity, etc.

Focus on what I write to you and don't repeat the same bullshit all over again.

Quote from: Snowshow on March 19, 2022, 09:26:44 AM

https://bitcoin.it/ is a website with some text on it. There are no bitcoins there.

We don't communicate. These are the "wonderful features" you asked for.

Snowshow

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on March 19, 2022, 09:01:42 AM

Quote from: Snowshow on March 19, 2022, 08:36:30 AM

For something to be "used" to settle transactions or for whatever purpose, it must exist.

The public ledger exists. The numbers of the public ledger indicate the space of it.

Quote from: Snowshow on March 19, 2022, 08:36:30 AM

There's no money or digital product that is in the possession of the address holders.

That's down to the individuals who'll agree to use it to transact with. Not to you.

Quote from: Snowshow on March 19, 2022, 08:36:30 AM

Applications are digital. Sounds, pictures, videos, animations.

A blind person can't see them. A deaf can't listen them. Don't they exist?

Quote from: Snowshow on March 19, 2022, 08:36:30 AM

You, on the other hand, are claiming that bitcoin exists and that it's digital and that it has many wonderful features, but you are not able to show it.

Here they are: https://bitcoin.it/

All that the individuals can agree to is for numbers to be attached to their address. Transactions, on the other hand, can only be performed with existing things. Such as debt, equity, commodity, etc.

https://bitcoin.it/ is a website with some text on it. There are no bitcoins there.

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

Quote from: Snowshow on March 19, 2022, 08:36:30 AM

For something to be "used" to settle transactions or for whatever purpose, it must exist.

The public ledger exists. The numbers of the public ledger indicate the space of it.

Quote from: Snowshow on March 19, 2022, 08:36:30 AM

There's no money or digital product that is in the possession of the address holders.

That's down to the individuals who'll agree to use it to transact with. Not to you.

Quote from: Snowshow on March 19, 2022, 08:36:30 AM

Applications are digital. Sounds, pictures, videos, animations.

A blind person can't see them. A deaf can't listen them. Don't they exist?

Quote from: Snowshow on March 19, 2022, 08:36:30 AM

You, on the other hand, are claiming that bitcoin exists and that it's digital and that it has many wonderful features, but you are not able to show it.

Here they are: https://bitcoin.it/

Topic: How Satoshi Nakamoto Fooled the World - page 38. (Read 8968 times)