Topic: I Think I Got Screwed out of 5 BTC - page 2. (Read 7493 times)

Actually, I'm a counselor in an adult psychiatric unit  

I might actually get intern of the year.

Add it to my 4.0, my beautiful girlfriend (who just had a photo shoot), and my great group of friends, and I'd say I'm doing quite well, thanks

Alienating myself from the bitcoin community is a tad ironic, don'tcha think?  I think we both know very well what "type" of person is most often found in the community...

He clearly has a mental disorder that makes that concept impossible to grasp.

you haven't won anything in that contest and you won't. if you're proud of your defense - it has failed (miserably)
only thing you've managed to achieve defending your position is to alienate yourself from the community for the price of few btc

Just sent 2 BTC to 1NWShYZFYVRd18ayvhZUdiW77HVqLKuRtG  (OldEngineer).

Goat,

I have stated several times I am very content with where the coins actually ended up, though discontent that they were not originally given to me.  You have a good heart.

The truth is, yes, I would like those 5 BTC back, but seeing as I have already acquired 7 BTC out of the deal (2 more than I asked for), I have agreed to give 2 BTC back to OldEnginner if he agrees to send them to the kind people that sent me 1 BTC each.

If you would like to send 5 BTC, then send them over to the Bitcoinica guy.  He sent me 5 BTC out of his own good will, and they were not the 5 BTC I think I earned.  Otherwise, keep them. 

And, obviously orphans need them more than I do.  You weren't being serious in suggesting I thought the opposite, were you?

Or not.

My suggestion is that you both start legal actions against each other.  My wife is an attorney and she would be willing to represent either of you. To keep it "in the family" so to speak she will work for BTC.  She will represent the first one that will send her 1000 BTC to get the process started!  Now that I think about it this is a pretty complicated case so let's make it 10,000 BTC.

In the case of a tie - both 10,000 BTC payments arrive at the same time - she will simply represent both of you!

EDIT:  Oops, forgot to mention that the time of the payment arrival would be UTC time.  Got to make that perfectly clear.

PM me for the payment address.

Do you understand the difference between "he screwed me out of 5 BTC" and "I THINK he screwed me out of 5 BTC?"  Language is important, and I've been careful to use it.

For the record, OldEngineer has sent me a private message stating his intent to sue me.  I think he has no legal leg to stand on as he (1) cannot prove my comments have been injurious as indicated by the results of the "what's fair" thread poll and as indicated by the overwhelming support he has received by others in the community and (2) that statements that I have made, especially those beginning with "I think," cannot be objectively proven nor disproved.  Actually, I think I could probably sue many who responded on the thread for libel with a more likely chance of success.

Regardless, I have offered him 2 BTC if he is willing to send those 2 BTC to the 2 gracious gentleman that donated 1 BTC apiece to me.

1) if you'd specified CST or Illinois time in your original post, it would have been honored.  You didn't, and that's your fault.

2) if you'd said you wanted the guess the 20th after the time zone was clarified, it would have been honored, even though Goat had already guessed it.  You didn't, and that's your fault.  I know you said you didn't check the thread, and I don't disbelieve you, but you _did_ have a chance at winning after the rule was clarified.  You didn't follow up on the chance, though, for which I can't be blamed.  I did what was reasonable: posting the clarification, in a timely manner, in the original thread.

3) to say you think you should have won is one is one thing; to say you've been "screwed out of 5 btc" implies fraud, theft, or other intentionally dishonest behavior on my part, which is certainly not the case.  You never had 5 btc that I took from you, or received from you without providing an asset or a service.  I was under no obligation to send anyone anything: not you, not Goat, no one.  To prove that I owed you 5 btc, you'd have to show a signed contract or similar instrument.  There is no such document for this free giveaway.

4) I can sue you for libel because your statement in the title of this thread is both demonstrably false and harming my reputation.  It's a serious enough allegation that a number of mods have weighed in, and every single one of them disagree with you.  Do you understand the difference between "I think I should have won the contest!" and "He screwed me out of 5 BTC!"?  What if I later try to make my living off a bitcoin-related product?  Do you understand how this thread could materially damage my reputation?

source

However, I'm a nice guy, and I hope it doesn't come to that.  I'm willing to settle out-of-court for 2 btc.  Send them to: 1NWShYZFYVRd18ayvhZUdiW77HVqLKuRtG

I also ask that you change the thread title so that when it is indexed by google, my pseudonym does not appear.

And this might help you to identify a pattern in your conversations in this thread, and perhaps in the rest of your life, too:

And thank you, the joint, for reminding me the reason why I refused all my life to gamble or take any bets and why I'll continue to refuse it for the rest of my life: BEING A LOSER IS SOMETHING THAT MOST PERSONS CAN'T DEAL WITH!

And because it appeals to the ladies, right?   

Here's a link to that article on concept extension I was talking about.  http://megasociety.org/noesis/191.htm#Overextension

Edit:  Actually, I think there's a lot you can learn about human interaction from nature and other disciplines.  Any truth is made through ratio (the root word of rationale).  So, I find analogies in nature that are related to human interaction.  Take any example.  To demonstrate, I'll pick radioactivity.  In short, when radioactive isotopes decay, they essentially explode and release a ton of energy, sending protons and stuff shooting off into other atoms, in turn knocking protons and other stuff off of them.  Now, when an angered person releases a ton of energy, how might that affect the other people around him?  Another example may be atomic fission as related to people with dissociative mental disorders.  On a related note, I also think that if we find out more about dark energy and dark space matter we might also find out more about junk DNA and dark brain matter.

When the laws of reality distribute to everything in it, you can find these kind of relationships between anything.

The greek concept of syndiffeonesis (or difference-in-sameness) essentially states that any 2 relands 'x' and 'y' are always bound by a common syntax or rule/law.  So, even if you were to say 'x' is absolutely different from 'y,' they would still be similar in that they are included within the medium of absolute difference.  So, EVERY relationship is syndiffeonic.  This may help explain my position that a good game has rules that distribute evenly to all players but take into account relative circumstance.  'X' and 'Y,' though different, are still bound by the same rule, much like how different players in different time zones were bound by the posting constraints of the thread (e.g. the person whose post appears first in the thread is the objective first poster).



I can honestly say that I don't know. Why did I guess the 19th instead of the 20th originally?  I can only say that all real factors that existed at that time contributed to my guess, and, because the factors would have been different if additional clarity had been present in the OP, I would like to point out that it is just as likely that I would have originally guessed the 20th.  After all, a slight change of original factors might have slightly changed my original entry.

Every domain requires different tools. I've studied comp sci and physics, yet I apply few of their logical lessons to human interaction.




To clarify, because I do not think it is irrelevant for your own conscience, would you have voted 20 rather than 19 December at the time you originally made the vote if you had known at the time, two weeks before the event, that not relative but universal coordinated time would be applied?

I am pleased you took the time to address me in the manner that you have.  In all honesty, this whole ordeal has been fun for me, not because I enjoy stirring up conflict, but because I truly do believe in what I am saying and it is fun to defend it.  




I feel compelled to point out that linking "worldly" and "educated" to the application of GMT and UTC is a leap of reductionism.  But yes, I am now aware that it exists.



Now I know this too.  I have a feeling I will never forget after this.





It was assumed at the time of the vote, and I assumed that the rules were set up such that it would be easy to discern whose vote was cast first and from what time zone each vote was cast.  I also assumed that the game-maker had put enough thought into the game such that the rules in the OP were the final ones to be used throughout the entire game.



Actually, you're close.  In the absence of a clarification, I chose to defunct to the rules of nature.  Universal syntax (laws/rules) are distributed evenly to all players but are played out relatively.  Gravity, light, the laws of thermodynamics...all of these things play out relatively.  I figured nature was a good enough game upon which to base my assumptions.  Actually, I try to use nature as a foundation for all of my assumptions and beliefs.  Upon what...or who...do you formulate your beliefs?



No, I believe the rules of the game were such that, at most, a 2-way tie may result because the first-guesser-wins rule would automatically nullify any 2nd-guessing of a date.  So, you would only have to query 2 people.  You wouldn't be able to have people in different time zones guessing the same date.  Date overrides time zone.  Narrows it down quite a bit.


I think they did, and I think it was.


I would likely not have chosen to alter my vote, but that's irrelevant.  If in fact I did have an opportunity to alter my vote (and apparently I did), then this is the reason why the game was statistically altered.  The simple opportunity to change my vote, in addition to the rule change and the first-guesser-wins rule, prohibited me from choosing the selected winning answer.  Goat guessed dec. 20th GMT.  Thus, I could not change my vote to dec. 20th GMT as it would have been instantly nullified.


See above.  In addition, the effects of the rule change have an impact on how the first-guesser-wins rule plays out.  After the rule change, it then became impossible to guess the same date according to different time zones.  So, for example, whereas before it would be possible to have 2 valid guesses on dec. 19th if the time zones were different, this was no longer possible after the rule change.


Ok.  Never would have thought to assume OldEngineer's timezone.  That'd be like assuming US Central Time.


I wouldn't call it a delusion.  Delusions are distorted perceptions of reality, and, as I stated, I try to ground my beliefs and assumptions upon nature/reality.  "Seduced" after the fact is interesting, but I think it's a bit unfair to say.  You can't expect me to have rationed all of this out prior to guessing.  I made the assumptions that I did at the time, and "after the fact" is when I realized there was a problem and chose to defend my entry.





This reminds me of an article I read on concept extension.  



Now I know.  Thank you.



You're welcome.  I don't think it's that hard after all the cultural relativism they beat into you in a social work curriculum.  


Never heard of "the smell test."  Maybe I failed it.  Still, the question remains, whose assumptions are most correct?  Wouldn't the most correct assumptions be deemed "correct" according to reality itself, and not mere pieces of it?  Yeah yeah, I know, OldEngineer is the judge.  And judge he did, albeit inaccurately.

I am pleased you took the time to answer my questions honestly.


I suppose we can not assume that just because you are a student of higher education in one of the wealthiest and presumably educated nations in the world, that you are both worldly and educated. If you were not previously aware that there was a universal coordinated time, now you know.



Are you distinguishing GMT from UTC? For all practical purposes, they are the same. If the spike up to four US dollars had occurred during a rare leap second then perhaps this ambiguity could have been argued further, but the distinction between GMT and UTC is entirely irrelevant in your case.



Was this assumption made at the time of your vote or after you determined you may have won? If the assumption was made at the time of the vote, did you not suspect there might be ambiguity and that it would be prudent to ask for a clarification?



So, there should be one set of rules, but those rules should also be relative to each player? Can you cite another game with similarly good rules? In Goat's universe, you did not win, but in your universe you did win, or are you suggesting that the rules of the game should have been as robust as those codified in Einstein's general theory of relativity?



And you honestly believed that every player would have been queried for his individual timezone? I think this is the first point that is shocking to most everyone here. You truly believed this at the time of your vote?



No, I think most would agree that if the rules changed after you voted, that would be unfair.

I think we do question whether that change would have altered your vote at the time you made the vote, two weeks before the event. Had you known at the time of your vote that it would be roughly six hours in advance, would you have changed your vote (or your location)?

More importantly, we question that the rules changed at all, rather than simply being clarified several hours later.

While some might have assumed either UTC or Old_engineer's own local timezone, I doubt ANYONE but you assumed relative time.



I agree. I believe your unique delusion conveniently seduced you after the fact.



Yes. Exactly. There are innumerable things that must be assumed in human discourse. We are also usually free to ask questions.



The $ symbol does not denote yen, but it does denote many dollars, pesos, and other currencies used by dozens of countries around the world. Now you know.



I agree that numerous relative local time zones, rather than singularly assuming US central time is very different. You caught me making an assumption about your argument. It's very interesting. Fascinating. It would never have occurred to me that one could make this assumption. I'll keep that in mind. Thank you.

Yet your unusual assumptions do not trump the common assumptions of the majority nor the game creator. It's typically called 'the smell test'. And you failed.

Actually several people came out and agreed with me and my position.

Not sure where the drunk wife beating thing comes into play.  Try again.

You must be confused. No sympathy was directed towards you...only contempt for your behavior. Plenty of men are happy to get black out drunk and beat their wives. Does that make it ok?

Well, your class is certainly showing now, isn't it?

Don't feel bad for me.  I'm a very happy individual.