Topic: I'm starting to get fucking pissed (BFL) - page 2. (Read 13669 times)

Aren't you glad that "products are shipped according to placement in the order queue"? Just think how mad you would be if people who ordered months after you got their products before you.

Wow still on July 4th for singles:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/303-wednesday-august-21-2013-shipping-update.html#comment7527

This is getting ridiculous..

Yes I feel like BFL has kept us on our toes about this "Anytime" for a long time.

Not anytime. You can estimate time left by their shipping log https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/
Order rate can be estimated from here http://bfl.ptz.ro/

In my case the order was 3 months ahead of currently shipping order date, so I definitely couldn't get it 'anytime'.

Thanks baloo, I had found it. Am really considering this now after the latest..
However there is still no comparable product off shelf so I may give it a few weeks.

Must check out how bitfurys doing...

Its hard to decide if take refund when you can receive the unit anytime. They should show the queue of order numbers + products they will ship

Got refund without any problems. The whole process took 8 days. Details: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2978545

Has anyone actually got a refund form a bank TX or BTC after they started shipping and took the no refunds route???

Just curious, Am sure your correct, they are outside the law by not honoring refunds, but getting refunded may take longer than getting product or bankruptcy (lets face it once the last order ships there business is toast).

Public Service Announcement:

If you have ordered from Butterfly Labs (BFL) and have not yet received your product, you are entitled to a refund whenever you request one (per FTC rules).

First ask Butterfly Labs (BFL) for one, they will probably say no but you might get lucky.
If you ordered via PayPal you can file a complaint with them even if you are outside the 45 day window. One customer has already gotten a refund from PayPal that was outside the 45 days.

If you ordered via BTC or Bank wire, you can fill out a complaint with the FTC and they will advocate for you with Butterfly Labs (BFL) to get your refund. You can also contact the office of the Kansas Attorney General and inform them that you have had your money taken with no product delivered for months, just more promises.

There are also several threads on how to get a refund from Butterfly Labs (BFL), here are two:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/yes-you-can-get-a-refund-from-bfl-266945
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/butterfly-labs-did-everything-they-could-to-make-getting-a-refund-impossible-272585

Now exactly 1 month later. And they are barely at the end of August orders while Jalapenos and Little Singles are way ahead.

Reminder: I am within the first month of pre-orders and I am coming from an upgrade.

This sucks. I am tired of hearing employees from BFL saying: "You obviously don't know how Bitcoin difficulty works" Implying that if they shipped on time, or delayed like they are now, profits would be the same.

1. They're not the only ones shipping ASICs
2. If we would have gotten our ASICs when the price of Bitcoins were going up Q1, we'd have a lot of earnings.
3. Bitcoin halving nears

I have 2 Singles coming from an group-buy upgrade ordered July 15. I basically can't get a refund.

I have had 2 dreams so far of my Asics coming in the mail.

/Rant over

I am waiting for them to do mass shipping.

Nothing like disappointed customers to make your day.

Just remember what you have learned and apply it today. Lesson learned. BFL = footnote in Bitcoin History.

^Absolutely.
You made a trading decision based on flawed data (the estimated difficulty level at the time BFL ships your unit). Only hindsight would reveal the extent of BFL's delays. I was not expecting you to divine this back in June 2012. 

Indeed, I could have purchased a lot more bitcoins for the same USD mid last year than I can now and overall had more money, but I guess the question is would I have?  For me the answer is no.  Woulda, coulda, shoulda is a prime enemy for any trader.  I preferred to buy mining hardware rather than speculate on the bitcoin price itself.  Even the most enthusiastic hyper bull did not predict this year's $266 bubble in mid 2012.  In hindsight BFL's many delays cost a lot of people considerable profit.  But hindsight is 20/20 as they say and there's nothing that can be done about it now.  If anyone can confirm that a bitcoin will be worth $2k this time next year however please feel free to drop me a line  

Ultimately for me bitcoin is a way to make USD and then convert them to my home currency to actually use.  Pretty much any commodity is the same, whether it's gold, silver, platinum, oil, etc.  The value has to be measured against the currency of the realm.  I can't go into my local supermarket with 1/20oz of gold and buy groceries, and neither can I spend a bitcoin there.

To be honest the nails for the BFL coffin have arrived ........the avalon mass delivery of chips are hear !!!

It may be a slow death (or fast one if sonny has packed his bags with the account numbers )

But BFL are history.......or they hold true too the 60000 -(~3000 of delivered units) commitements that they have made ..instead of   all of the never ending lies and bullshit........they would needto totally change
there attitude & basically everything about them as a company in the next 30 days....lolz

yeah thats going to happen or maybe not 30 days ..how about "2 weeks" ...lolz

BFL is in clear violation of FTC regulations concerning the mail order rule.

If you paid with paypal, call them up (even if outside the 45 day buyer protection window offered by PP) and explain the situation.

If you paid with an alternate method the only recourse you have at this point is the FTC.

Direct link to FTC compliant form:

https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/FTC_Wizard.aspx?Lang=en


WHERE TO GO FOR HELP

For more information about the Mail or Telephone Order Merchandise Rule, call the Federal Trade Commission toll-free: 1-877-FTC-HELP; write: Federal Trade Commission, Consumer Response Center, 600 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W., Washington, DC 20580; or visit: www.ftc.gov.

You also may want to contact relevant trade associations, such as the Direct Marketing Association. Contact the DMA’s Washington, DC office at: 202-955-5030; write: 1111 19th Street, N.W., Suite 1100, Washington, DC 20036-3603; or visit: www.the-dma.org.

Your local U.S. Postal Service or consumer protection agency may offer additional assistance. State and local governments also may have requirements with which you must comply. You should consult appropriate state agencies for information about laws that affect your business.




For More Information

The FTC works for the consumer to prevent fraudulent, deceptive, and unfair business practices in the marketplace and to provide information to help consumers spot, stop, and avoid them. To file a complaint or to get free information on consumer issues, visit ftc.gov or call toll-free, 1-877-FTC-HELP (1-877-382-4357); TTY: 1-866-653-4261. The FTC enters consumer complaints into the Consumer Sentinel Network, a secure online database and investigative tool used by hundreds of civil and criminal law enforcement agencies in the U.S. and abroad.

Well, I asked BFL for a refund in Jan 2013. They ignored my request and now I lost almost everything. Thank you BFL!

How do you get a refund when the vendor ignores your requests?!

Agreed. I think the behind person is too greedy while they do slowly to keep us believing us

Got it.
My position has been if customers paid with X BTC, they should be refunded with X BTC. BFL said they were putting the funds in a separate escrow and not using them for operating costs. There should have been no reason to convert the BTC to another currency under those circumstances. On one hand, BFL would have been taking a currency risk at that point because their liabilities are in USD. On the other hand, they demanded a 100% deposit instead of a more sensible 10% deposit to reserve a unit. It always baffled me why they took the pre-order funds if they were not using them for operating costs. It also makes no sense allowing someone to pay in BTC but have to give bank information (or PayPal) to get a refund.

Having said that, BFL would have probably refunded in BTC if they stood to make USD from it. If I paid a Peruvian company $100 for an Alpaca rug, I would expect $100 back upon a refund regardless of how the currencies have moved in the intervening time.


How you paid is not exactly relevant. What is relevant is how many BTC could you have bought off MtGox instead of BFL at the time you placed your order. Compare that with how many BTC you have earned to date. That is the measure of whether a mine is profitable. Can I make the commodity for less than I can buy it off the market?