Incoming Avalon News 8/9/2013 - page 51.

erk

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Quote from: Vigil on August 16, 2013, 07:54:03 PM

None of this matters. Either Avalon contracted to deliver by a certain date or it didn't. If it missed that date it violated contract and can be legally held liable for damages and missing product. You are trying to frame it as if it all no big deal and everyone should just give up on trying to pursue any course of action to rectify the damages - just relax and let it all go. In the real world when people don't meet deadlines they pay for the damages.

you are doing a disservice to the Avalon customers - trying to get them to stay quiet.

You probably need to brush up on the enforcement of contracts in China.

bigbeninlondon

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Quote from: Vigil on August 16, 2013, 07:54:03 PM

In the real world when people don't meet deadlines they pay for the damages.

That's not always true. Generalizations like this are not helpful. The bigger the deadline the more wiggle room is usually built in. Two weeks is really not a ridiculous delay, and anyone with good business sense understands that large projects have large unforeseen problems. Not anticipating some kind of hiccup is the sign of a bad businessman. When you are dealing with this kind of money, not at least calculating the risk of a delay (especially with someone at the helm who's never run this scope of a project before) is doing yourself a disservice. Seriously, who here DIDN'T expect at least a little delay? Batch #1 #2 and #3 all experienced delays.

The vitriol and anger spilling out of this thread is extremely telling.

Vigil

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Quote from: GodHatesFigs on August 16, 2013, 07:55:34 PM

Quote from: Vigil on August 16, 2013, 07:21:33 PM

Quote from: GodHatesFigs on August 16, 2013, 07:12:29 PM

I've seen lots of wild accusations and aimless anger, without any hard proof that Avalon have done anything wrong. There are always risks with customs, manufacture etc.; the delivery date was always a target - not guaranteed. Everyone needs to calm down: no one was promised ROI.

This isn't true. The group buys were guaranteed the chips within 9-10 weeks of purchase.

Could you link me this guarantee, please?

The "no bullshit " contract was posted here multiple times.

Bitcoinorama

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Quote from: zumzero on August 16, 2013, 07:51:28 PM

Quote from: Bitcoinorama on August 16, 2013, 07:49:09 PM

Quote from: kano on August 16, 2013, 07:45:42 PM

Quote from: zumzero on August 16, 2013, 07:41:48 PM

There is nothing unique about these delays reported all across the Bitcoin mining industry as it's what we see also see in the 'real world'.

Companies set deadlines and targets and issue statements which they genuinely believe to be accurate but due to unforseen circumstances are unable to honour.

The only difference is that in the 'real world' I might be getting angry because the roof hasn't arrived for the house I'm building, but the pool table has already.

Or, I might get angry because the Christmas present I wanted to give my wife is stuck in some sorting office somewhere until after New Year.

How we chose to conduct ourselves when we face adversity is what defines us.

Lulz, it's not about delayed shipments due to customs
Yes you can live in a whole in the ground and pretend that's what it's about ...
If customs was the real reason he could easily prove that.
It's the issue ... again ... of what happened to the chips they had ... and who they sold them to.

Bare in mind Kano reads Chinese and has read the BTCman thread.

Not sure if this is a joke. If it is not I'd suggest it's one man's opinion and not gospel. lulz

This is the tracking for those Avalon 2.1 million chips received at the end of June;

That's a 853Kg pallet of chips.

From Pudong Airport - PVG / ZSPD - Shanghai, China, to Hong Kong Airport - HKG / VHHH - Hong Kong, China

8 Weeks ago.

http://imgur.com/a/GR0e3

GodHatesFigs

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Quote from: Vigil on August 16, 2013, 07:21:33 PM

Quote from: GodHatesFigs on August 16, 2013, 07:12:29 PM

I've seen lots of wild accusations and aimless anger, without any hard proof that Avalon have done anything wrong. There are always risks with customs, manufacture etc.; the delivery date was always a target - not guaranteed. Everyone needs to calm down: no one was promised ROI.

This isn't true. The group buys were guaranteed the chips within 9-10 weeks of purchase.

Could you link me this guarantee, please?

Vigil

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Activity: 378

Merit: 250

Quote from: zumzero on August 16, 2013, 07:41:48 PM

There is nothing unique about these delays reported all across the Bitcoin mining industry as it's what we see also see in the 'real world'.

Companies set deadlines and targets and issue statements which they genuinely believe to be accurate but due to unforseen circumstances are unable to honour.

The only difference is that in the 'real world' I might be getting angry because the roof hasn't arrived for the house I'm building, but the pool table has already.

Or, I might get angry because the Christmas present I wanted to give my wife is stuck in some sorting office somewhere until after New Year.

How we chose to conduct ourselves when we face adversity is what defines us.

None of this matters. Either Avalon contracted to deliver by a certain date or it didn't. If it missed that date it violated contract and can be legally held liable for damages and missing product. You are trying to frame it as if it all no big deal and everyone should just give up on trying to pursue any course of action to rectify the damages - just relax and let it all go. In the real world when people don't meet deadlines they pay for the damages.

you are doing a disservice to the Avalon customers - trying to get them to stay quiet.

zumzero

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myBitcoin.Garden

Quote from: Bitcoinorama on August 16, 2013, 07:49:09 PM

Quote from: kano on August 16, 2013, 07:45:42 PM

Quote from: zumzero on August 16, 2013, 07:41:48 PM

There is nothing unique about these delays reported all across the Bitcoin mining industry as it's what we see also see in the 'real world'.

Companies set deadlines and targets and issue statements which they genuinely believe to be accurate but due to unforseen circumstances are unable to honour.

The only difference is that in the 'real world' I might be getting angry because the roof hasn't arrived for the house I'm building, but the pool table has already.

Or, I might get angry because the Christmas present I wanted to give my wife is stuck in some sorting office somewhere until after New Year.

How we chose to conduct ourselves when we face adversity is what defines us.

Lulz, it's not about delayed shipments due to customs
Yes you can live in a whole in the ground and pretend that's what it's about ...
If customs was the real reason he could easily prove that.
It's the issue ... again ... of what happened to the chips they had ... and who they sold them to.

Bare in mind Kano reads Chinese and has read the BTCman thread.

Not sure if this is a joke. If it is not I'd suggest it's one man's opinion and not gospel. lulz

Bitcoinorama

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Quote from: kano on August 16, 2013, 07:45:42 PM

Quote from: zumzero on August 16, 2013, 07:41:48 PM

There is nothing unique about these delays reported all across the Bitcoin mining industry as it's what we see also see in the 'real world'.

Companies set deadlines and targets and issue statements which they genuinely believe to be accurate but due to unforseen circumstances are unable to honour.

The only difference is that in the 'real world' I might be getting angry because the roof hasn't arrived for the house I'm building, but the pool table has already.

Or, I might get angry because the Christmas present I wanted to give my wife is stuck in some sorting office somewhere until after New Year.

How we chose to conduct ourselves when we face adversity is what defines us.

Lulz, it's not about delayed shipments due to customs
Yes you can live in a whole in the ground and pretend that's what it's about ...
If customs was the real reason he could easily prove that.
It's the issue ... again ... of what happened to the chips they had ... and who they sold them to.

Bare in mind Kano reads Chinese and has read the BTCman thread.

zumzero

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Activity: 602

Merit: 500

myBitcoin.Garden

Quote from: kano on August 16, 2013, 07:45:42 PM

Quote from: zumzero on August 16, 2013, 07:41:48 PM

There is nothing unique about these delays reported all across the Bitcoin mining industry as it's what we see also see in the 'real world'.

Companies set deadlines and targets and issue statements which they genuinely believe to be accurate but due to unforseen circumstances are unable to honour.

The only difference is that in the 'real world' I might be getting angry because the roof hasn't arrived for the house I'm building, but the pool table has already.

Or, I might get angry because the Christmas present I wanted to give my wife is stuck in some sorting office somewhere until after New Year.

How we chose to conduct ourselves when we face adversity is what defines us.

Lulz, it's not about delayed shipments due to customs
Yes you can live in a whole in the ground and pretend that's what it's about ...
If customs was the real reason he could easily prove that.
It's the issue ... again ... of what happened to the chips they had ... and who they sold them to.

mere conspiracy

kano

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Quote from: zumzero on August 16, 2013, 07:41:48 PM

There is nothing unique about these delays reported all across the Bitcoin mining industry as it's what we see also see in the 'real world'.

Companies set deadlines and targets and issue statements which they genuinely believe to be accurate but due to unforseen circumstances are unable to honour.

The only difference is that in the 'real world' I might be getting angry because the roof hasn't arrived for the house I'm building, but the pool table has already.

Or, I might get angry because the Christmas present I wanted to give my wife is stuck in some sorting office somewhere until after New Year.

How we chose to conduct ourselves when we face adversity is what defines us.

Lulz, it's not about delayed shipments due to customs
Yes you can live in a whole in the ground and pretend that's what it's about ...
If customs was the real reason he could easily prove that.
It's the issue ... again ... of what happened to the chips they had ... and who they sold them to.

Unacceptable

legendary

Activity: 2212

Merit: 1001

Quote from: kano on August 16, 2013, 07:14:06 PM

Quote from: Vigil on August 16, 2013, 06:59:59 PM

The sound the group buy leaders make...(silence). Why?

Because they know that anything said against BitSyncom means their delivery will be delayed.
Quite understandable.
They've been put into a very difficult position and the only real way out for them is to get the chips as fast as possible.
Risking being given more delays on purpose due to commenting badly about Avalon would not really be a good idea.

Yeah,like a "forced refund" ala BFL style Cheesy

"You talk crap,refund for you!!!!!!!!" Grin

Then they are in limbo land until the refund is sent,which may take many BFLyears Roll Eyes

zumzero

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myBitcoin.Garden

There is nothing unique about these delays reported all across the Bitcoin mining industry as it's what we see also see in the 'real world'.

Companies set deadlines and targets and issue statements which they genuinely believe to be accurate but due to unforseen circumstances are unable to honour.

The only difference is that in the 'real world' I might be getting angry because the roof hasn't arrived for the house I'm building, but the pool table has already.

Or, I might get angry because the Christmas present I wanted to give my wife is stuck in some sorting office somewhere until after New Year.

How we chose to conduct ourselves when we face adversity is what defines us.

Vigil

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 250

Everyone trying to make purchasers feel guilty for "risking" money, claim that Avalon hasn't really done anything wrong, calling people crybabies, claiming there were no guarantees on delivery dates, etc. might as well be the thieves mining with our chips.

zumzero

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myBitcoin.Garden

Quote from: FlappySocks on August 16, 2013, 07:23:01 PM

Quote from: GodHatesFigs on August 16, 2013, 07:12:29 PM

I've seen lots of wild accusations and aimless anger, without any hard proof that Avalon have done anything wrong. There are always risks with customs, manufacture etc.; the delivery date was always a target - not guaranteed. Everyone needs to calm down: no one was promised ROI.

Their biggest crime has and is, lack of communication.

A common critcism in a world where people expect instant gratification. Whatever happened to, 'no news is good news'?

FlappySocks

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Quote from: GodHatesFigs on August 16, 2013, 07:12:29 PM

I've seen lots of wild accusations and aimless anger, without any hard proof that Avalon have done anything wrong. There are always risks with customs, manufacture etc.; the delivery date was always a target - not guaranteed. Everyone needs to calm down: no one was promised ROI.

Their biggest crime has been and still is, lack of communication.

Vigil

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Activity: 378

Merit: 250

Quote from: GodHatesFigs on August 16, 2013, 07:12:29 PM

I've seen lots of wild accusations and aimless anger, without any hard proof that Avalon have done anything wrong. There are always risks with customs, manufacture etc.; the delivery date was always a target - not guaranteed. Everyone needs to calm down: no one was promised ROI.

This isn't true. The group buys were guaranteed the chips within 9-10 weeks of purchase.

Quote from: kano on August 16, 2013, 07:14:06 PM

Quote from: Vigil on August 16, 2013, 06:59:59 PM

The sound the group buy leaders make...(silence). Why?

Because they know that anything said against BitSyncom means their delivery will be delayed.
Quite understandable.
They've been put into a very difficult position and the only real way out for them is to get the chips as fast as possible.
Risking being given more delays on purpose due to commenting badly about Avalon would not really be a good idea.

Nonsense. Bitsyncom is not going to further delay chips if the group buy leaders get a lawyer to force Yifu into face-to-face talks and get real answers. Everything you said is total crap, there is no threat of further delays by requiring Bitsyncom to fess-up the facts.

kano

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Linux since 1997 RedHat 4

Quote from: GodHatesFigs on August 16, 2013, 07:12:29 PM

I've seen lots of wild accusations and aimless anger, without any hard proof that Avalon have done anything wrong. There are always risks with customs, manufacture etc.; the delivery date was always a target - not guaranteed. Everyone needs to calm down: no one was promised ROI.

... except what happened to all the chips from June ...

kano

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Linux since 1997 RedHat 4

Quote from: Vigil on August 16, 2013, 06:59:59 PM

The sound the group buy leaders make...(silence). Why?

Because they know that anything said against BitSyncom means their delivery will be delayed.
Quite understandable.
They've been put into a very difficult position and the only real way out for them is to get the chips as fast as possible.
Risking being given more delays on purpose due to commenting badly about Avalon would not really be a good idea.

GodHatesFigs

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Activity: 557

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I've seen lots of wild accusations and aimless anger, without any hard proof that Avalon have done anything wrong. There are always risks with customs, manufacture etc.; the delivery date was always a target - not guaranteed. Everyone needs to calm down: no one was promised ROI.

zumzero

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myBitcoin.Garden

Quote from: User705 on August 16, 2013, 06:47:49 PM

Quote from: zumzero on August 16, 2013, 06:18:58 PM

Quote from: bit_wizard on August 16, 2013, 04:20:37 PM

Quote from: BitSyncom on August 16, 2013, 03:54:16 PM

at the moment of writing, another 130k chips have gone out, and will proceed to ship more as we get them. ( and no, they are not samples.)

@BitSyncom - In my opinion, GO F*CK YOURSELF! And I hope you and your associates get whats coming to them; a slew of lawsuits!

I don't want to upset anyone here and that was not my intention. I apologise if I have done so.

I simply wanted to share an outsiders perspective by commenting on the lack of maturity and levels of unnecessary aggression in the hope that some contributors thought twice before doing so again.

I too have a vested interest in receiving Avalon chips. I would hope that $10,000 would be a small fraction of what I could stand to gain if they get here soon enough.

EDIT: and there is no shame being a old gamer! Wink

in my opinion one of the reasons you see aggression is because most recent bitcoiners came into this with some fiat but likely an amount they were willing to risk but a lot of the older users spent a large amount of their stash that was built up through years of hard mining with hot burning rooms of GPUs needing constant attention and in a flash got boned by someone they thought was on of them. This is common in a lot of scams where people tend to forget that it's irrelevant that you share a common interest. In the end you put a lot of money in front of someone and problems will occur and it may not even be yufu or whoever it's just once large sums start floating around temptations will be plentiful.

Could someone post a link regarding this as I fear I may be lagging behind up to date info on this scam.

Topic: Incoming Avalon News 8/9/2013 - page 51. (Read 186786 times)