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Topic: Intervention Theory: An alternative to Darwinism and Creationism (Read 9423 times)

legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055


Tiny Solar Activity Changes Affect Earth's Climate
http://www.space.com/19280-solar-activity-earth-climate.html
Quote from: Charles Q. Choi
Even small changes in solar activity can impact Earth's climate in significant and surprisingly complex ways, researchers say.

The sun is a constant star when compared with many others in the galaxy. Some stars pulsate dramatically, varying wildly in size and brightness and even exploding. In comparison, the sun varies in the amount of light it emits by only 0.1 percent over the course of a relatively stable 11-year-long pattern known as the solar cycle.

Still, "the light reaching the top of the Earth's atmosphere provides about 2,500 times as much energy as the total of all other sources combined," solar physicist Greg Kopp at the University of Colorado told SPACE.com. As such, even 0.1 percent of the amount of light the sun emits exceeds all other energy sources the Earth's atmosphere sees combined, such as the radioactivity naturally emitted from Earth's core, Kopp explained.

To learn more about how such tiny variations in solar energy might impact terrestrial climate, the National Research Council (NRC) convened dozens of experts in many fields, such as plasma physics, solar activity, atmospheric chemistry, fluid dynamics and energetic particle physics.

Many of the ways the scientists proposed these fluctuations in solar activity could influence Earth were complicated in nature. For instance, solar energetic particles and cosmic rays could reduce ozone levels in the stratosphere. This in turn alters the behavior of the atmosphere below it, perhaps even pushing storms on the surface off course.

"In the lower stratosphere, the presence of ozone causes a local warming because of the breakup of ozone molecules by ultraviolet light," climate scientist Jerry North at Texas A&M University told SPACE.com.

When the ozone is removed, "the stratosphere there becomes cooler, increasing the temperature contrast between the tropics and the polar region. The contrast in temperatures in the stratosphere and the upper troposphere leads to instabilities in the atmospheric flow west to east. The instabilities make for eddies or irregular motions."

These eddies feed the strength of jet streams, ultimately altering flows in the upper troposphere, the layer of atmosphere closest to Earth's surface. "The geographical positioning of the jets aloft can alter the distribution of storms over the middle latitudes," North said. "So the sun might have a role to play in this kind of process. I would have to say this would be a very difficult mechanism to prove in climate models. That does not mean it may not exist — just hard to prove."

In addition, climate scientist Gerald Meehl at the National Center for Atmospheric Research and his colleagues suggest that solar variability is leaving a definite imprint on climate, especially in the Pacific Ocean.

When researchers look at sea surface temperature data during sunspot peak years, the tropical Pacific showed a pattern very much like that expected with La Niña, a cyclical cooling of the Pacific Ocean that regularly affects climate worldwide, with sunspot peak years leading to a cooling of almost 1 degree Celsius (1.8 degrees Fahrenheit) in the equatorial eastern Pacific. In addition, peaks in the sunspot cycle were linked with increased precipitation in a number of areas across the globe, as well as above-normal sea-level pressure in the mid-latitude North and South Pacific.
...


A photograph of the aurora over Mason City, Iowa, 18 September 1941.


The Geomagnetic Blitz of September 1941
https://eos.org/features/the-geomagnetic-blitz-of-september-1941
Quote from: Jeffrey J. Love and Pierdavide Coïsson

Seventy-five years ago, on 18–19 September 1941, the Earth experienced a great magnetic storm, one of the most intense ever recorded. It arrived at a poignant moment in history, when radio and electrical technology was emerging as a central part of daily life and when much of the world was embroiled in World War II, which the United States had not yet officially entered.

The illuminated night sky exposed an Allied convoy to German attack.Auroras danced across the night sky as voltage surged in power grid lines. A radio blackout interrupted fan enjoyment of a baseball game, while another radio program was interrupted by private phone conversations. Citizens, already on edge, wondered if neon lights were some sort of antiaircraft signal. And far away in the North Atlantic, the illuminated night sky exposed an Allied convoy to German attack.

These effects raised awareness within the scientific community and among the public of the societal significance of the effects that the Sun and outer space can have on the Earth—what we now call space weather.

Solar-Terrestrial Interaction
On 10 September 1941, during the declining phase of solar cycle 17, astronomers saw an unusually large, low-latitude group of sunspots on the eastern limb of the Sun. The spots had formed, as they all do, with the buoyant emergence of a concentrated bundle of magnetic field lines from the Sun’s interior through the photosphere. Over the course of the next week the spots grew, and the Sun’s rotation brought them near the center of the solar disk as viewed from Earth [e.g., Richardson, 1941]. The sunspot group was large enough to be seen with the naked eye.

At 08:38 universal time (UT) on 17 September 1941, the Greenwich Observatory spectrohelioscope recorded a solar flare above this sunspot group [Newton, 1941]. The emitted ultraviolet and X-ray radiation abruptly enhanced the ionization of the Earth’s atmosphere, causing a sharp perturbation known as a “crochet” in dayside ground-based recordings of the geomagnetic field and temporarily interfering with high-frequency radio communication. Subsequently, scientists at the Mount Wilson Observatory in California observed another solar flare at 16:26 UT

On the basis of daily sunspot reports supplied by the U.S. Naval Observatory, the Department of Terrestrial Magnetism at the Carnegie Institution of Washington formally issued a warning to radio operators that they could expect significant disturbances to ionospheric and geomagnetic conditions beginning on about 18 September [McNish, 1941a]. This prediction, which turned out to be accurate, is a noteworthy development in the historical development of methods for reliably forecasting space weather.

Less than 20 hours after the flare was reported by Greenwich, a magnetic storm commenced at 0412 UT on 18 September with the arrival at Earth of a coronal mass ejection. This mass ejection abruptly compressed the magnetopause and generated a magnetic impulse that was recorded by observatories around the world [Newton, 1941]. The magnetic superstorm that followed was complex, intense, and of long duration.

A magnetic observatory in Cheltenham, Md., operated by the U.S. Coast and Geodetic Survey, registered six separate occurrences of geomagnetic storms with a K index of 9 (the most intense value possible). Five of these occurred consecutively over a 24-hour period. In terms of a related global index , the level of geomagnetic activity over a 24-hour period has not since been matched
...
The popular press provided vivid accounts of the auroras. The Brooklyn Eagle [1941] described celestial “neon lights.” The Chicago Tribune [1941a] reported that a “cosmic brush painted the Chicago sky with light” and that motorists parked on the highways had caused a traffic jam as they sought a clear view of the celestial spectacle.

According to the Washington Post [1941a], some people wondered if the celestial events had something to do with national defense: “Was it an antiaircraft search battery?” These were, after all, difficult times. The United States was already being drawn into World War II [e.g., Heinrichs, 1988], and many citizens anticipated even greater involvement.

Auroras were also seen in Europe, but not surprisingly, most newspaper articles focused on wartime events. Newspapers, for example, succinctly reported that the British Royal Air Force carried out a raid on a German supply base on the Baltic Sea [Washington Post, 1941b] and that the Germans bombarded Leningrad [Chicago Tribune, 1941b], each under the lights of the aurora borealis.

When the magnetic storm finally subsided and the aurora faded, a New York Times [1941c] article described the events, in war terms that were common at the time, as an “ethereal blitz.” Some readers even optimistically saw the auroral displays as a representation of hope for victory [New York Times, 1941d].

Aurora over Bergenfield, N.J., September 1941
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
Does God Guide World Affairs?
https://www.tomorrowsworld.org/magazines/2008/may-june/does-god-guide-world-affairs
Quote from: Douglas S. Winnail

RISE AND FALL OF NATIONS

In the 1400s and 1500s, Portuguese and Spanish navigators set out to explore and claim parts of the world and spread their Roman Catholic faith. From Rome, the pope in 1500ad intervened to settle their competing claims to the "new world." He awarded most of the new territory to Spain, but what is now Brazil and most of Africa went to Portugal. Over the next century, the Dutch, French and English also explored and claimed new territories.

The nations that have dominated our modern world began to emerge as powers when Philip of Spain launched his Armada against Britain in 1588. Philip sent 130 ships, 2,500 cannons and 30,000 men in an attempt to bring Protestant England back into the Roman Catholic fold. But a heavy storm pummeled the Armada before it arrived, and faster English ships with longer-range cannons peppered the Armada as it moved up the English Channel, causing the Spanish ships to flee north toward Scotland—trailed by English ships that had nearly run out of ammunition. As they sailed around Scotland and Ireland, many of Spain's ships floundered and were lost in a north Atlantic storm—a storm that the English viewed as God's intervention. "The defeat of the Spanish Armada marked the decline of Spain and the rise of England as a world power" (The Battle 100, p. 54, Lanning).

Remember, God foretold the descendants of Joseph would become great—and the Spanish are not descendants of Joseph. God was beginning to fulfill His ancient promises.

In the mid-18th century, competing claims in Canada and the Ohio Valley led to conflict between the English and the French. At the Battle of Quebec in 1759, English troops defeated the French and by treaty gained all the land France had claimed east of the Mississippi River and north of the Great Lakes. This meant that all of Canada belonged to England. Between 1759 and 1805, the English navy decisively defeated the French navy at Quiberon Bay and Trafalgar. In 1815, a combined army of British, Dutch, Belgians and Prussians, led by the British Duke of Wellington, defeated Napoleon at the battle of Waterloo. A rainstorm on the night before the battle forced Napoleon to delay his attack, which allowed time for the Prussians to arrive and tip the balance of power to the British. Napoleon's defeat, aided by a rainstorm, brought an end to French domination of Europe.

In a prophetic sense, the contests at Quebec, Quiberon Bay, Trafalgar and Waterloo were contests between Ephraim (Britain) and Reuben (France). God foretold that Ephraim would become great and prevail, but that Reuben "shall not excel" (Genesis 48:19; 49:3–4), according to God's plan.

At about the same time, the United States was beginning its ascent to greatness. During the late 1700s, the American colonial army under George Washington withstood and outmaneuvered the more powerful British, often with the help of favorable changes in the weather at just the right time (as at the battles of Long Island and Yorktown), and by a combination of bold decisions by Washington (as at Trenton) and bad decisions by British commanders (as at Saratoga). The 1781 surrender of the British at Yorktown, one of the most influential battles in history, led to the independence of the United States and launched America on the road to becoming the world's most prosperous nation and eventually the only superpower. In prophetic terms, Manasseh (America) and Ephraim (England) were to become two separate nations—a great nation and a great company of nations—which is exactly what happened as a result of the American Revolution. In spite of losing the American colonies, England continued to amass an overseas empire "upon which the sun never set"—becoming a great company or commonwealth of nations—just as God predicted thousands of years earlier.

MIRACLES AND WORLD WAR

Some of modern history's most stunning examples of divine intervention occurred during the "dark days" of World War II. In the summer of 1940, the German blitzkrieg had pushed 400,000 Allied troops to the European coast near Dunkirk, France, where British military planners were expecting the greatest military disaster in their history. Yet, in a tactical blunder, Hitler suddenly halted the advance of the German tanks just as they were closing in for the kill. The King of England announced a National Day of Prayer, and thousands flocked to churches. During the nine days of the Dunkirk evacuation, the normally stormy English Channel remained as calm as a millpond—while a storm broke over Flanders, grounding Germany's Luftwaffe. These unexpected events allowed nearly the whole Allied army of 338,000 irreplaceable soldiers to survive and fight again—an amazing development which British Prime Minister Winston Churchill called a "miracle of deliverance," when thousands of Englishmen gave the credit to God, as Walter Lord wrote in The Miracle of Dunkirk (pp. 272–274).

The British thanked God, and appealed to Him for His intervention. During the Battle of Britain, as German and British planes fought in the skies over Britain and the English Channel, the King declared another National Day of Prayer. Prime Minister Churchill announced on a radio broadcast, "Bearing ourselves humbly before God, but conscious that we serve an unfolding purpose, we are ready to defend our native land…" (We Have a Guardian, Grant, p. 13). After the Battle of Britain, the commander of the Royal Air Force observed, "I say with absolute conviction, that I can trace the intervention of God, not only in the battle itself, but in events leading up to it… it was all part of a mighty plan" (Grant, p. 19).

When British troops were massed in Egypt for the Battle of El Alamein, another National Day of Prayer was called in Britain. General Bernard Montgomery, who led the British army at El Alamein, exhorted his troops that, "The soldiers must have faith in God," and he proclaimed: "Let us pray that the Lord, mighty in battle, will give us the victory" (Grant, pp. 30–31). The British saw the hand of God in how events transpired—not only was German commander Erwin Rommel away in Germany as the battle began, but his temporary replacement General Georg Stumme died of a heart attack on his way to the front. The German Africa Corps later withdrew after suffering heavy losses.

When the Allies landed troops on the Atlantic coast of Morocco, the shores of Sicily and the beaches of Normandy, the hand of God was visible in the remarkable circumstances of these endeavors. For the invasion of North Africa in late 1941, a fleet of 650 ships from America and Britain sailed to Casablanca, unnoticed by German planes or submarines, because many of the ships were obscured by "a squall that seemed to be traveling with our ships" (Grant, pp. 31–34, 49). Bad weather had been predicted, which would have made the landings difficult or unsuccessful—yet the Allies' ships arrived to find a calm, smooth sea! The Allied naval commander termed it "incredible"—and many recognized the hand of God at work.

In July 1943, U.S. General Dwight Eisenhower launched his invasion of Sicily with a prayer and a comment: "The die is cast, and the events are in the hands of God" (Grant, p. 38). During the night, gale force winds buffeted Allied ships, but the wild weather also caused Italians defending Sicilian shores to discount any signs of enemy activity. By the next morning, however, the sea suddenly calmed in a way that "seemed miraculous" (Grant, p. 39) and Allied troops could easily take the beaches.

Similarly, in June 1944, a temporary break in nearly a month of stormy weather allowed the Allies to mount their D-Day invasion at Normandy on June 6, while the Germans were still caught off guard by the continuing bad weather. On D-Day, Rommel was once again in Berlin—this time celebrating his wife's birthday. Considering these dramatic events, the soldiers who planned the invasion and the writers who recorded it spoke of "The Miracle of D-Day" (Daily Telegraph, April 7, 1947) and observed: "Only the thoughtless can fail to realize how great a part Providence has played in the swift and successful transformation of the great war" (Daily Mail, November 14, 1942).

There may be no better example of a sudden turn of events than the Battle of Midway in the Pacific in June 1942. A Japanese task force of four heavy carriers, 80 support ships, and hundreds of technically superior aircraft flown by experienced pilots had begun to attack and bomb the strategic American-held island of Midway. They faced an American force consisting of outdated planes, inexperienced pilots and three older carriers. Waves of American planes attacked Japanese carriers without scoring a hit, and many American squadrons were nearly destroyed by Japanese gunfire. Yet when the Japanese admiral finally spotted American ships, he ordered his pilots to return to their carriers for more fuel and torpedoes. Then, suddenly—as if out of nowhere—a group of American dive-bombers dropped out of the sky to deliver their bombs onto the wooden flight decks of Japanese carriers littered with bombs, torpedoes and fully fueled airplanes. In just five or six minutes, three heavy carriers—the pride of the Japanese fleet—were ripped by tremendous explosions, engulfed with smoke and flames and headed for the bottom of the Pacific. A fourth carrier soon fell, along with 275 airplanes and 4,000 irreplaceable soldiers—including experienced pilots and one of Japan's brightest commanders who chose to go down with his ship. This sudden, dramatic and unexpected reversal changed the course of the Pacific war in a matter of minutes. "Before Midway, Japan experienced only victory; after the battle, they met a succession of defeats" (Lanning, p. 150).

Many modern writers describe these incidents as amazing bits of luck. However, when viewed as part of a bigger picture, it illustrates how God has repeatedly intervened to guide the outcome of world events to accomplish His purpose.
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
OP,

so the "intervention" is basically way to abridge differences between Darwinian and creationist theory? Well, it is seems possible. Afterall, those are all merely theories as they cannot be verified by reconstruction. Possible yes. Thank you for this fun topic and do not get too worried about local trolls pretending to understand Darwin.

Your welcome thanks for the encouraging comments. Thankfully this thread has been remarkabally light on trolls.

BadDecker above is appears to simply be worried that the idea is very speculative and if accepted might distract people from needed spiritual growth. I understand this concern but do not share it for the following reason.

If intervention theory is true then monotheism may have been introduced as a part of said intervention. Any intervening agent would presumably have done so by gifting humanity a simplified version of its own philosophy/religion as a known functional template.

If an unimaginably advanced intervening agent believes in God that is hardly an argument for atheism. I see nothing incompatible with the idea that divine will manifest itself indirectly first via influencing  higher order entities which in turn influence us.

That said this thread is extremely speculative. As both you and BadDecker have noted it is fun stuff. Interesting but also unproven.
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 506
OP,

so the "intervention" is basically way to abridge differences between Darwinian and creationist theory? Well, it is seems possible. Afterall, those are all merely theories as they cannot be verified by reconstruction. Possible yes. Thank you for this fun topic and do not get too worried about local trolls pretending to understand Darwin.
legendary
Activity: 3766
Merit: 1368
No one came back to God.
What does this mean? What does going back to God have to do with anything in intervention theory?


If we assume that life on earth was brought from space, what does God do?
If life was brought to earth from space, the focus is simply life on earth. It still doesn't tell us how life came into being. And that is the important part. How did life get its start.

Life is so complex that if aliens started it, then aliens are essentially God.

Several people have asked who started God; who made God? We don't know enough about the universe to even guess this. And, if God is outside of the universe, we can't really begin to even think what that means. The answer to where God came from, or what He is about is way beyond anything that we can even consider.

If the aliens that brought us here (assuming intervention theory is accurate) are from the universe, than who or what created their life? We don't see anything else other than God?


You want to say that the aliens did people and clay? Do not tell me.

What is clay? Clay is the elements, like the thing that people are made up of. It's all over the place. It is inanimate. Certainly it wasn't aliens that made people out of clay. But if it is, they are in a position that you might as well call them God. Because that's how great they are.

Cool
sr. member
Activity: 630
Merit: 272
No one came back to God. If we assume that life on earth was brought from space, what does God do? You want to say that the aliens did people and clay? Do not tell me.
legendary
Activity: 3766
Merit: 1368
In general, where did life come from? It could not have been from any kind of evolution that we know. Evolution is based on random chance, and life is so extremely complex that random chance is out of the question. The kind of random chance that life needs is way beyond any kind of probability we understand of existing. In other words, evolution is science fiction.

Consider what I said at https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.17917526
Think about life. Think about one living cell. How many atoms and molecules are in one living cell?

If all these atoms in a non-living, inanimate form had to come together in just the right way to form a living cell, what are the odds against it ever happening... especially if there was no life around at all? The odds against this happening are so great as to render it impossible.

But, let's imagine that it happened. Let's say that all the atoms and molecules of a simple living cell happened, by chance, to come together, in just the right places with relation to each other, to form what a living cell would be like if it existed. It still wouldn't be alive.

Next, the inanimate atoms and molecules would have to be "kick-started" into motion, all at the same time, and in just the right way, for life to exist. The odds against this happening are so great, as well, as to be literally impossible.

But let's say that both of the impossible things happened. The atoms and molecules lined up, and were somehow kick-started into motion in just the right way to form a living cell. Then what would happen? Nature and the chemicals around this new living cell would immediately destroy the life. The odds that the life would not be destroyed by nature around it are so greatly in favor of the destruction, that the life would absolutely and certainly be destroyed. It is impossible that the life would keep on living.

However, if the living cell somehow kept on living, then the cell would have to gain a whole bunch of extra molecules and atoms in just the right places and at just the right times, and with just the right motions for this cell to divide, thereby forming reproduction. The odds against this happening would be so great that it would be impossible. The cell would die of old age, or of chemical actions in nature surrounding it.

The story of Evolution is a story that says that these impossible-to-happen things happened. Evolution is impossible over and over and over again. Life in nature, through Evolution, is so extremely impossible that there isn't even a hint of a chance that it could happen. Why in the world would anyone believe in evolution science fiction?

Now, some will say that this is abiogenesis, not evolution. But the fact is that their evolution would be a lot more impossible because it would include random changes in far more atoms and molecules, making the odds against their evolution even greater than the odds against abiogenesis, as expressed above.

In addition, nobody has ever found anything that is pure random. Everything operates by cause and effect. Whatever exists and changes does so according to the laws of cause and effect, which exsit all around us all the time.

Evolution is foolishness. The ignorant are caught by it. Scientists and universities are getting rich by spreading their science fiction evolution.

Scientists and universities have an evolution religion going for themselves. And they don't ask for donations. Rather, they scam students by making them pay to learn evolution stupidity. Then, when the students fail in their loan payments, Government covers it, and we all pay through taxes. Evolution is the religion that is scamming us all!

In other words, if life came about by intervention, then whatever intervened is way different that anything that we see in the universe today. And, it had supreme capabilities. We're back to God.

Cool
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
Large speed is good,but people will not physically survive such acceleration. In General, I believe that life on earth originated from space.
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
Harvard Scientists Theorize That Fast Radio Bursts Come From Alien Space Travel
http://www.popularmechanics.com/space/a25609/fast-radio-bursts-alien-space-travel/

Quote from: Jay Bennett
Fast radio bursts (FRB) are perhaps the most mysterious phenomena we observe in the cosmos. Earlier this year, astronomers announced they had pinpointed an FRB for the first time in a dwarf galaxy that sits three billion light-years away. These intense blasts of radio waves last only 1 to 5 milliseconds, and they have perplexed astronomers since the first one was discovered in 2007.

The leading theories suggest that FRBs come from incredibly volatile cosmic events, such as material being ejected from supermassive black holes, the explosions of superluminous supernovae, or rotating magnetars that lash surrounding material with their immense magnetic fields. But researchers at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics (CfA) have proposed a much more enticing theory. What if FRBs aren't natural phenomena at all, but rather come from a massive artificial structure used to power alien spacecraft?

"Fast radio bursts are exceedingly bright given their short duration and origin at great distances, and we haven't identified a possible natural source with any confidence," said Harvard professor Avi Loeb in a press release. "An artificial origin is worth contemplating and checking."

The idea is that FRBs come from an immense alien power plant that is used to propel ships using light sails. A powerful beam of light can propel a reflective surface in the vacuum of space, which is the basis for light sail technology. Current human light sail experiments use light from the sun, but scientists are also working to develop a worldwide system of lasers that could propel small nanoprobes to about 20 percent the speed of light. Such technology, called photonic propulsion, could send a probe to Alpha Centauri, the closet star system to us, in roughly 20 years.

It's possible that a more advanced alien species uses photonic propulsion to power much larger spaceships. Loeb and fellow Harvard researcher Manasvi Lingam found that if an object twice the size of the Earth were harnessing solar power and converting the energy into a laser beam to propel spacecraft, then the radio emissions from it would be detectable even across billions of light-years. Such a planet-sized power system would be capable of accelerating a spaceship weighing a million tons, which is about 20 times bigger than the biggest cruise ships.

"That's big enough to carry living passengers across interstellar or even intergalactic distances," says Lingam.

The team's findings are outlined in a paper titled, "Fast Radio Bursts from Extragalactic Light Sails," which has been accepted for publication in the Astrophysical Journal Letters. To accelerate a spaceship's light sail, the device would need to constantly aim its beams of light at the craft. On Earth, we would see this from time to time as a quick flash of high intensity radio waves rather than a sustained signal because the movement of distant galaxies and planets means the laser would only line up with our planet for a split second.

The fast radio burst that we located earlier this year actually was detected nine times over the course of six months, which, if the signal is coming from an alien power plant, could be an indication that the device lines up with us regularly, or we could be seeing the planet-sized laser system being switched on and off.

Of course, this is all highly speculative theory. The new study simply outlines the fact that it is possible that FRBs are from an alien propulsion system according to our current laws of physics. Our species is nowhere near achieving such advanced technology, but perhaps a more advanced race has unlocked large-scale interstellar travel.

Loeb was asked whether he really believes FRBs come from an advanced alien civilization, to which he responded: "Science isn't a matter of belief, it's a matter of evidence. Deciding what's likely ahead of time limits the possibilities. It's worth putting ideas out there and letting the data be the judge."
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
Intervention theory is simply a method to sidestep the issue. Intervention doesn't tell us where the universe comes from. It only tells us that someone or something intervened in the universe that was already there. Then you gotta figure out where the interveners came from - who created them.

Fun playing. But stupid if you want to get down to basics.

Cool

I pretty much agree with most of what you said here BADecker.

Intervention theory even if it was true exactly as written above would indeed remain a tangent perhaps even a potentially self-destructive one.

It may be the case that intervention theory is completely false and growing scientific knowledge will make this utterly clear with time. It may also be the case that there are aspects of it that are true but we are as a whole better off not delving too deeply at this time for as you mentioned it potentially takes our eyes and efforts away from where they need to be. What is true for the aggregate, however, is not necessarily true for all parts.

I find the theory interesting because I cannot immediately dismiss it. I present it as an intellectual exercise.
legendary
Activity: 3766
Merit: 1368
Dr. Silver and Lloyd Pye think alike!


..........

Yet all of this thinking goes back to cause and effect.

Is it simply that we don't have any idea what was the Great First Cause? Or are we simply trying to get away from the God truth in a different way?

Cool
legendary
Activity: 3766
Merit: 1368
Actually BADecker, I think CoinCube did just fine in getting down to basics; he provided this basic fact:
Mankind Is Placed In Prison On Planet Earth
If you look at the Ancient Aliens series, many of the episodes substantiate the idea that Man is not from Earth, but what is really interesting is the Prison aspect, which you can learn about from such episodes like "Space Station Moon" (S11,E11).

Of course mankind is in prison here. But it is a prison of his own making.

Before mankind sinned in the Garden, mankind had perfect freedom. That freedom was to exist in the place that he was made for... perfection. Then mankind made themselves imperfect intentionally. Since then, they have been imprisoned by the imperfection. And try as they will, they can't get out of their self-made prison.

God offers the only way to the freedom of perfection again. It is through Jesus salvation. All that BS speculation in in the "theories" that mankind makes about his lack of freedom, only makes things worse for him. Get back to the Bible, which is truth, so that you don't get locked into the prison of Hell forever.

Cool
hero member
Activity: 636
Merit: 505
Dr. Silver and Lloyd Pye think alike!

12 Ways Humans Are Not Primates

According to Darwinian evolution, humans evolved from primates. Yet somehow in our evolutionary process, we seem to have gotten weaker, slower, and in many ways less adapted to living on this planet. Read the following list and see if you still think it was advantageous for us to "evolve" these differences.

Lloyd Pye strongly suggests that Intragalactic Terraformers are much more likely to be the actual source of life on Earth than anything Creationism or Evolution can hope to rationally account for.

In the hundred and fifty years since Darwin, science has become every bit as entrenched as religion once was, and every bit as belligerent and vindictive against any who dare to question the right of its priesthood to absolute correctness in all that they utter or pronounce.

Scientists have no trouble dismissing ghosts, werewolves, vampires, fairies, trolls, etc., but the reality of UFOs, aliens, or hominoids will devastate them when they have to deal with the fallout from their decades of denial-based perceptions.

The undeniable reality of any of those three would mean that neither science nor humanity is what it is cracked up to be. Scientists would be exposed, and humanity would be seen as having no roots or existence in the flowchart of ancient life on Earth. Our world as we know it would never be the same.
hero member
Activity: 636
Merit: 505
Actually BADecker, I think CoinCube did just fine in getting down to basics; he provided this basic fact:
Mankind Is Placed In Prison On Planet Earth
If you look at the Ancient Aliens series, many of the episodes substantiate the idea that Man is not from Earth, but what is really interesting is the Prison aspect, which you can learn about from such episodes like "Space Station Moon" (S11,E11).
legendary
Activity: 3766
Merit: 1368
Intervention theory is simply a method to sidestep the issue. Intervention doesn't tell us where the universe comes from. It only tells us that someone or something intervened in the universe that was already there. Then you gotta figure out where the interveners came from - who created them.

Fun playing. But stupid if you want to get down to basics.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055

This is very interesting and leads to some compelling possibilities. It implies that human development has been guided and shaped in a way that is subtle yet dramatic.

Starting Posits
Let us for a moment assume the following posits are true:
1) That's there was outside intervention between 5,000-10,000 years ago whose end result was to stabilize and improve man's food supply.
2) That biblical events surrounding the beginnings of monotheism the exodus from Egypt, the parting of the Red Sea etc are fact.
What possible purpose could justify such an intervention? Why interfere rather than let us discover truth for ourselves? Let’s take a moment to examine end effects.


Speculation is though provoking and fun. Every once in a while it can even be enlightening. This thread is primarily about some interesting speculation. Let's take a moment to build upon the speculation above.

Let's start with a third posit one provided by miscreanity in another thread

This universe, existence, what-have-you is to me a playpen of sorts. I see it as a safe place both to protect us while we collectively grow as spiritual beings, as well as to protect whatever is beyond this universe from us. Yes, from us - we have the potential for immense power, both creative and destructive. We probably don't realize anywhere near the extent of what we can do as gods - Psalm 82:6

My perspective is that humanity collectively forms a unified organism that transcends what we understand individually. Whether what we arrive at is due to an emergent property or remains external is something I don't know, but all of the changes throughout history leave subtle clues in the same direction. The primary point of import is that we have to progress through the stages of growth together and at differing rates.

Starting Posits
3) Our current existence is something of a cradle or playpen. Defination: a structure with high sides that provides an enclosed area in which a young child is safely restrained for a period of time.

Now these posits when combined lead to some radically speculative ideas. For your reading and pondering pleasure I present a few of these ideas courtesy of the Internet.



“The Days of Noah”
What Was It Really Like Before the Flood?

https://realtruth.org/articles/140219-003.html
Quote from: SAMUEL C. BAXTER
BY SAMUEL C. BAXTER
Cutting through countless theories, wild speculation, and odd ideas, there is much more to the story of Noah than most realize.

“Once upon a time, long ago…” Unless you are in primary school, this worn-out first line is usually a cue to zone out. A child’s story is sure to follow. The tale will likely include cookie-cutter heroes and villains, a damsel in distress, and maybe a giant or two. It is usually a highly implausible myth, legend or parable.

This is how most view the idea of a flood that covered the whole Earth. The storyline has captured the imaginations of nearly every culture for millennia. In Sumerian lore, imprinted on cuneiform tablets, Ziusudra rides it out in a huge boat. The ancient Babylonian tale has Utnapishtim in the lead role, with his wife and animals on the watercraft. In both instances, the main characters become immortal post-flood.

Aztec culture has a 52-year version with only one man and one woman—Tata and Nene—surviving by stowing away in a massive cypress tree. Afterward, the god Tezcatlipoca turns them into dogs for disobeying orders.

Over the years, the tale of the Flood (also called the Deluge) has been hashed and rehashed ad nauseam, with nearly every culture preserving a story of waters covering Earth, usually to destroy a wicked humanity. There is also the Greek myth of Deucalion and the Indian legend of Manu.

No two versions are exactly alike.

For those who believe in the Bible’s validity, however, just one account is accurate: the story of Noah’s ark. Summarized, the book of Genesis states that this servant of God placed his family and at least two of every animal kind (Gen. 6:19-20) into a mammoth boat. It then rained for 40 days and 40 nights, and a flood covered the Earth. In the end, the ark runs aground on a mountain peak and God says He will never again flood the entire globe. He uses a rainbow to symbolize His promise.

It seems that if any story deserves to start with “once upon a time, long ago,” it is this one.

But there is a problem. If something occurred long ago, how can one know exactly what happened? There are no eyewitnesses to ask or videos of that time to access via the Internet. This means even those who believe the Bible account quibble over what actually happened—especially regarding conditions before the Flood.

A major bone of contention is found in Genesis 6: “There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown” (vs. 4).

Verse 2 states that the sons of God took the daughters of men as wives.

These verses have fascinated Bible readers for centuries: Who were the “giants in the earth” and the “sons of God”? What about the “mighty men”? Most important, what did they have to do with God’s decision to wipe out mankind with a universal flood?

A favorite answer is that fallen angels (sons of God) procreated with human women to create a super race of evil demon spawn. Thus, God was forced to destroy mankind.

This idea appears to grow legs when one reads the book of Job. In chapter 1 and verse 6, angels are referred to as “sons of God.”

James Moffatt favors this idea in his translation of the Bible: “The angels”—he does not even call them “sons of God”—“noticed that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any one of them that they chose” (Gen. 6:2).

Other sources add to this theory, such as the Book of Enoch, a controversial document written in 300 BC. Also, a big-budget Hollywood blockbuster about Noah depicts these angelic beings as 11-foot-tall giants with six arms.

Yet Jesus Christ exposes a glaring flaw in the idea of angel-human offspring: “For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven” (Matt. 22:30).

While the context of this quote is a future resurrection, it clearly states that angels do not marry. They are sexless spirit beings and it is impossible for them to procreate. If they could, society would be full of current examples—there are none! Therefore, the sons of God who took wives from the daughters of men cannot be angels. The Bible does record that there were giants before and in the centuries after the Flood—but they were flesh-and-blood human beings! Goliath, who was at least 9 feet tall, is one example (I Sam. 17:4).

Yet this is only one of many popular misconceptions about the pre-Flood account. To fully understand what it was like in the days leading up to it, one must mine the text of the Bible. Doing so creates a vivid picture of Noah’s day—and its crucial importance for the modern world.

Global Conditions

A picture of this time begins to emerge when continuing to read Genesis 6: “And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually” (vs. 5).

Every imagination of the thoughts of men’s hearts was evil continually. How did it get that bad?

Before the Flood, people lived for many centuries. The first man, Adam, lived for 930 years (5:5), which was a decade or two past the standard lifespan of the time.

Try to wrap your mind around living almost an entire millennium. Imagine if a person had 900 years to learn something like playing the violin. He could eventually reach and exceed what is considered a virtuoso level today.

As each person honed new skills, it was not done in a vacuum. They collaborated with others to speed the learning process. Notice: “And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them” (6:1).

The original Hebrew word translated “to multiply” means “increase” and “to multiply by the myriad,” according to Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible.

In other words, the Earth experienced a massive population explosion. Due to their extended lifespans, the number of people could have grown to between five billion and 17 billion by Noah’s time.

Knowledge and technology also rapidly increased in the 1,656 years from Creation to the Flood. Mankind built cities (4:17), had cattle ranches (vs. 20), composed and played music (vs. 21), and discovered metallurgy, including how to make alloys such as brass (vs. 22).

While each man had about 900 years to perfect various crafts, he also had the same amount of time to develop wrong attitudes and habits.

What someone thinks and does becomes part of his character. Just as a person could have become incredibly skilled at metallurgy during that time, he also could have perfected the art of lying, cheating and stealing. Even after just a few hundred years, man would have become incredibly wicked. And, again, there are estimated to have been billions of people like this!

Those alive at the time knew how to work with metals—for both good and bad purposes. This included the development of weapons such as swords and spears. Coupled with a crowded globe, this is what resulted: “The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence” (Gen. 6:11).

This is the world that the Creator looked upon and said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repents [grieves] Me that I have made them” (6:7).

Yet there was one person who stood out: “But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord” (vs. 8 ).

Noah lived a completely different way of life from those around him—one that had been known from the day Adam and Eve were created.

Two Trees

In the Garden of Eden, the first man and woman were presented with a choice between two very different life paths. Notice: “And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there He put the man whom He had formed. And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the Tree of Life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil” (Gen. 2:7-9).

God then gave Adam and Eve plain instructions: “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat of it: for in the day that you eat thereof you shall surely die” (vs. 16-17).

Eating the fruit of the Tree of Life symbolized choosing to follow God’s will, and allowing Him to determine how man should live. Eating the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil represented choosing to make decisions based on man’s own understanding.

Genesis 3:1-8 shows what path Adam and Eve chose. They rejected the Creator as their supreme educator and ruler. Instead, they listened to the serpent and ate from the wrong tree. From then on, human beings have been deciding for themselves what is “good” and what is “evil.” They have continued to choose between right and wrong based on their own faulty physical reasoning rather than listening to what God says.

By not eating from the Tree of Life, man cut himself off from access to divine knowledge, which included understanding God’s astounding purpose for him. (This incredible human potential, which is detailed throughout the Bible, is discussed at length in Real Truth Editor-in-Chief David C. Pack’s book The Awesome Potential of Man.)

The two trees in the garden also symbolized two ways of life: give versus get.

The way of give can be defined as outflowing love, care and concern for others that is equal to or greater than the love for oneself. It includes cooperation, serving and sharing. On the other hand, the way of get is inward concern for self. It can be summarized as, “I want to take. I want to get whatever I can from you. I will let you produce, but I’ll take it away from you, rather than produce myself.” It is materialistic, covetous and self-centered. It involves getting at the expense of others—often to their hurt.

By Noah’s time, the vast majority of Earth was living the way of get.

Way of Cain

Genesis 4 shows that Adam and Eve’s first children, Cain and Abel, exemplified these two ways of life. First-century Jewish historian Flavius Josephus had access to ancient historical documents that no longer exist today. His Antiquities of the Jews supports the biblical account: “Now, the two brethren were pleased with different courses of life, for Abel, the younger, was a lover of righteousness, and, believing that God was present at all his actions, he excelled in virtue; and his employment was that of a shepherd. But Cain was not only very wicked in other respects, but was wholly intent upon getting…” (emphasis added).

Strong’s concordance shows that the Hebrew meaning of the name Cain is “gotten.”

Cain eventually ends up killing Abel out of jealousy and is expelled from the presence of his family as punishment. In response, Cain tells the Creator, “Behold, You have driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from Your face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth…” (Gen. 4:14).

Cain clearly was not removed from Earth, but was driven from where Adam, Eve and their children lived. Verse 16 states, “And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.”

Josephus states that Cain refused to learn from his punishment and instead determined “to increase his wickedness; for he only aimed to procure everything that was for his own bodily pleasure, though it obliged him to be injurious to his neighbors. He augmented his household substance with much wealth, by rapine [theft] and violence; he excited his acquaintance to procure pleasures and spoils by robbery, and became a great leader of men into wicked courses. He also introduced a change in that way of simplicity wherein men lived before; and was the author of measures and weights. And whereas they lived innocently and generously while they knew nothing of such arts, he changed the world into cunning craftiness. He first of all set boundaries about lands: he built a city, and fortified it with walls, and he compelled his family to come together to it…”

Instead of always giving generously, Cain apparently introduced weights and measurements in business dealings. Almost certainly, he began to cheat others using this system to get more for himself. He negatively influenced others to live selfishly.

Josephus shows the incredible effect Cain had on others: “Nay, even while Adam was alive, it came to pass that the posterity of Cain became exceeding wicked, every one successively…more wicked than the former. They were intolerable in war, and vehement in robberies…yet was he bold in his profligate [wasteful] behavior, in acting unjustly, and doing injuries for gain.”

Antiquities of the Jews singles out one of Cain’s descendants: “But Tubal, [the Bible calls him Tubal-cain] one of his children…exceeded all men in strength, and was very expert and famous in martial performances [he was an elite warrior]. He procured what tended to the pleasures of the body by that method; and first of all invented the art of making brass.”

These are all just descriptions of Cain’s descendants. Adam’s other children lived separately under a wholly different form of leadership.

Preachers of Righteousness

Recall that Abel was “a lover of righteousness,” which means he lived God’s Way. Psalm 119:172 defines righteousness: “My tongue shall speak of Your word: for all Your commandments are righteousness.”

This means Abel obeyed God’s Commandments.

The way of give did not die out when Cain killed his brother. (Read Did the Ten Commandments Precede Moses? for clear proof that God’s Law has been in place since Creation.)

Return to Genesis 4: “And Adam knew his wife again; and she bore a son, and called his name Seth: for God, said she, has appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew” (vs. 25).

Verse 26 states: “And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the Lord.”

The phrase “call upon the name of the Lord” could also be translated as “then men began to preach and publish the name of the Lord.”

Almost certainly, those of Seth’s line invented written language. Josephus states that they founded the study of astronomy and wrote their discoveries on stone and brick pillars to preserve the knowledge.

A passage from the New Testament sheds light on what role Seth and Enos had in the pre-Flood world: “And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly” (II Pet. 2:5).

Noah was the eighth of what are called “preachers of righteousness.” Abel was the first. The other seven were Seth, Enos, Cainan, Mahalaleel, Jared, Enoch and Noah. They undoubtedly taught their families to live according to God’s Commandments...

Preaching Campaign

Because Noah was just, the Creator warned him of the coming Flood: “And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before Me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth. Make you an ark of gopher wood; rooms shall you make in the ark, and shall pitch it within and without with pitch” (Gen. 6:13-14).

The Flood did not begin immediately. God gave mankind 120 years to repent (vs. 3), during which time Noah, as a preacher of righteousness, warned of the coming calamity for the majority of this time.

Josephus adds to the story: “But Noah was very uneasy at what they did; and being displeased at their conduct, persuaded them to change their dispositions and their acts for the better: but seeing they did not yield to him, but were slaves to their wicked pleasures, he was afraid they would kill him, together with his wife and children, and those they had married; so he departed out of that land.”

A loving God made sure that all of mankind was told of the coming punishment and offered anyone who changed their ways a place on the ark. Additionally, Noah also certainly preached the gospel of the kingdom throughout the world as his great-grandfather Enoch had done.

To sharpen this warning, God may have increased natural disasters at that time.

While most details from the Babylonian telling of the Flood cannot be trusted, the fact that natural disasters were increasing has strong merit as it follows a common biblical pattern. A few details gleaned from the Babylonian myth include an uptick in famines and disease outbreaks in the years before the Deluge. It also mentioned attacks from lions and wolves were commonplace.

Such events should have grabbed man’s attention and showed him that he was living the wrong way!

Despite Noah warning for decades, everyone ignored the patriarch. Just eight people were ultimately saved: “…when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water” (I Pet. 3:20).

Controversial Theory Suggests Humans Do Not Come from Earth
http://www.learning-mind.com/controversial-theory-suggests-humans-do-not-come-from-earth/
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All of these theories are based on the differences between man and the all the other species that inhabit the planet. Dr. Silver’s theory focuses on evidence on how mankind is not suited to live on this planet, along with behavioral patterns that indicate that we are here as a sort of punishment.

We will discuss Sr. Silver’s observations in conjunction with the rest of the theories in order to extract a conclusion.  The basic elements of all the theories put together are:

1. Bad backs

The problems that mankind faces with its spine and back are a clear indication that the original environment is one of lower gravity. Earth’s higher gravity puts strain in the skeleton and the result is the back pains.

 2. Sunlight

Humans, in contrast with other species, cannot sunbath for more than a given time per day without getting sunburned. This indicates that the human body was not designed for constant exposure to the sun.

 3. Illnesses

Dr. Silver stipulates that humans are always ill because they evolved on a 25 hour per day environment instead of 24 as on Earth, and they have not adapted yet. The older theories add to this concept than in many cases, when there is an illness, humans are disabled and cannot carry out their workload, which rarely occurs in the other species.

4. Dislike of the Earth environment

Many people have a profound dislike for all foods that are naturally grown. An equal amount of people do not feel that Earth is their home. Many have reported visions and dreams of other worlds with other circumstances and other living conditions much better than even the best conditions available on Earth. This is even further indication of human beings been brought here from someplace else.

5. Birth difficulty

Babies’ heads are too large, which presents a problem to women when there are giving birth, a problem which may result in fatalities to both the mother and the infant.

6. Growing up

Dr. Silver does not mention this point, which is a major issue for the older theories. In all species that inhabit the Earth, the offspring is capable of doing things in a relatively short time, which may vary from just a few minutes to eight weeks after birth. Human offspring is completely helpless and powerless to do anything for at least ten years before acquiring some capabilities. It takes another five to ten years before it can perform the duties and the requirements of carrying their weight around. Something that is never seen in all other species put together.

7. Advances

The human being does something that no other species has been observed doing – he uses external ways to overcome his physical shortcomings. Has anyone ever seen an elephant with an artificial leg? Or an owl wearing real glasses?

8. Behavior

Lions and the other carnivores will hunt to eat and they will engage in fights almost always for reasons of reproduction. Most fights in the animal kingdom are actually for reproduction and areas for feeding. And whenever there is a fight, when the victor is declared, the fight is over. There is no observance in any other species than the human being for retaliatory attacks, pre-emptive strikes, and most of all weapon construction in ever increasing lethal potential. Unless anyone has ever seen a mouse with an M-16 at hand and never bothered to inform anyone about it.

For all theories this is the most important argument that shows that mankind is not from here. The inherent violent nature. As stated by a World War II journalist in a condemnation of mankind: “People kill each other because they like to.” (Ernie Pyle, war correspondent – responding to a question posed by Maj. General John P. Lucas). He went on to say that when someone kills someone else, he lives that moment more vividly than any other moment of his life. At that specific moment, he is more than he will ever be again. Has anyone ever observed this kind of behavior in any other species?

Dr. Silver puts this issue into mankind being sent to a prison-like Earth until we learn to behave ourselves. It seems that after 4,000 years of recorded history, things are getting worse, not better.

The book that Dr. Silver published, as per his own words, is not a study, but ideas for debate. Strangely this book comes to solidify other theories like:

Mankind landed on Earth on starships that escaped a destroyed world.
Mankind is brought here from a reverse universe, either through a random occurrence or through intentional action.
Mankind is brought here as an experiment of evolution.
These theories will be discussed along with their features in future articles. The focus on this one is whether there is validity to the claim that we did not evolve on this planet.

As expected, the theory was met with criticism and skepticism from other scientists. But there were also favorable opinions like the one of Prof Wainwright of the University of Sheffield. According to him, life is constantly brought to Earth from other worlds.

Until science finds irrefutable proof as to the origin of mankind, there will always be evidence and circumstances in favor of one theory or another. But it is beyond any reasonable doubt that man is a completely different species than any other of this planet. Science will have to prove why.

Theory Of Exile
https://www.ancestryofman.com/
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Ancestry of Man puts forth the theory of exile.

The theory of exile states that the origin of man is not Earth. Humans were purposely placed upon this planet. It explains the who, what, when, where and why of human origin on Earth.
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Theory Of Exile

The theory of exile is that the origin of man is extraterrestrial. It states that our species (homo sapiens sapiens) has not been on Earth since the dawn of time, and humans are actually a recent event in global history. Ancestry of Man acknowledges that there are fossils of other hominoids on Earth, but none of cro-magnons (ours) that are older than 60,000 years. Human genealogy is 100% extraterrestrial. Never has Earth seen a species as advanced as ours. But, as advanced as we are, we have some very dangerous traits. Is Earth a prison planet? The answer is yes. Are humans extraterrestrial? The answer is yes. What is the true origin of man? The true origin of man is from other worlds.
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We can only imagine what purpose lies behind the activities of these quiet, harmlessly cruising objects that time and again approach the Earth. The most likely explanation, it seems to me, is that they are simply watching what we are up to.
– Dr. Margaret Mead, world-renowned Anthropologist. (Redbook, vol. 143, September 1974)

Every person born on Earth feels a primal connection to the stars, and feels part of the universe.

Deep within us the constellations call to us, and the depths of space beckon to us with unspoken word. The reason is that humans did not originate on Earth. Our ancestry is interstellar, from worlds that one day we may visit. We are divine creatures, evolutionary marvels, and prisoners on this planet.

Ancestry of Man explains the origin of man and how we got here.
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It all began when humans began acting criminally insane and became an interstellar menace, which resulted in some humans imprisoned on Earth.
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If life exists on Earth, it must also exist on other worlds.

Human origin is not Earth. Humans are aliens from outer space, prisoners on Earth, and everything about us provides the hard scientific proof needed to verify that. Humans were put on prison planet Earth for very good reasons. However, we have been intentionally misled about our true origin many times throughout the millenniums. First by religions, then also by science. Scientific fact is that our species, known as modern humans, did not evolve on planet Earth, and there is not a shred of hard scientific evidence that exists anywhere on the entire planet to prove that we did. Whether we like it, deny it, accept it, or reject it, our ancestors were exiled and imprisoned on Earth between 50-60,000 years ago.

Science disagrees that our relatives even exist. It believes that there is a strong probability that life may exist elsewhere else in the universe, but until it can be verified beyond all doubt, the scientific community refuses to state it as fact. However, logic dictates that it is very probable that the “source” of life did not disperse itself throughout the universe selectively. Therefore, if life exists on Earth, it must also exist on other worlds.

There may be extraterrestrial life forms that we are unaware of, but the majority of interstellar life will likely share characteristics with the life forms found on Earth.

The same creatures that have roamed this planet (and still do) are sure to exist on other planets with similar climatic and environmental conditions. In fact, it was from similar planets that our species was taken. While we may occupy a place in the universe’s evolutionary scale, we did not evolve on Earth. The genealogy and origin of man is entirely extraterrestrial.

Earth is a prison planet.

Prisoner - Earth Is Prison Before our ancestors were placed here, they lived freely throughout the universe. We are the direct descendants, and distant relatives of the extraterrestrials that still do. We once shared all the rights, responsibilities and technologies of those societies. But, at some point in the last 60,000 years, our ancestors were arrested and exiled to Earth. The logical reason was because some Cro-Magnoids (homos sapien sapiens – our ancestors) begin to exhibit insanity and criminal behavior.

Finding an efficient and “humane solution” to coping with persons violating the rights of others became an absolute necessity. Identifying and isolating those who presented problems took place. Our ancestors were arested and selected for exile to Earth. Our different physical characteristics were caused by evolutionary adaptation to other planets.

Note: I am often asked why we weren’t simply genetically ‘repaired’ and reintegrated into society. There are two likely reasons: 1) Forced genetic modification of intelligent life forms is likely considered a horrific intergalactic civil rights violation, and therefore is strictly forbidden, or 2) Previous genetic manipulation went terribly, terribly wrong and has been forbidden since.

Once our ancestors were identified and isolated, a course of action was decided upon. Exile was chosen.

The conditions for the exile were:

prisoners were stripped of all memory of former lives
prisoners received no tools or technology
prisoners were placed on a planet with a variety of climates that was hospitable to life, and intentionally far from intergalactic civilization
prisoner contact, or interference in development, was forbidden
prisoners to be periodically monitored and assessed

The reason for these conditions was to let nature to take care of the problem for them, and if we did survive, to monitor our intellectual development and evaluate our level of risk of escape from the prison planet. The distance from intergalactic society to the prison planet selected was so vast that it would prevent, or at the very least severely inhibit, any interference that could trigger technological development. After human arrival on Earth, monitoring and assessment began. It was agreed that should the prisoners negative behaviors cease, they would be considered for re-integration into interstellar society.

Science has proven that “hominids” have lived on this planet for a very long time. It has also proven that our species, Homo Sapiens Sapiens (Cro-Magnon or Modern man) have not. Our ancestors were exiled to Earth in order to stop, or at the very least isolate, the intergalactic spread of mental illness, crime and murder. The same criminal behavior and mental illness that we still see around us today.

Negative behavior seems to an inescapable part of our nature. There is not a single human who is free of violent, lustful, vengeful, thieving and/or murderous thoughts. The unnatural horrors that humans experience on this planet are almost always caused by our own species. Humans lie, steal, cheat, rape, murder and pollute. We victimize everything, even our own kind. We are a horrible menace to ourselves, to all of the creatures of this world, and to interstellar civilizations.

The treacherous and murderous ways of human beings remain a very real threat to peace in the universe.

Earth was chosen to become a prison planet because of its remote location, varied climates, and the ability to support hominid life forms. Our ancestors were stripped of all memory of their former lives and placed on different continents, selected for similarities to our ancestors former climatic environments. Even though we varied in language, size, shape and color, all prisoners exiled to Earth were Cro-Magnon.
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It was thought that if the prisoners survived at all, they would do so in a primal state, existing by building relationships, and possibly even interbreeding, with Earth’s native hominid species. It was a belief proven very wrong. We immediately began to dominate everything that came into our path. The sudden terrestrial appearance of modern man was on a scale so large, that it allowed Cro-Magnoids to drive the Neanderthals, who had been at the top of Earth’s food chain for well over 200,000 years, to near global extinction within just a few thousand years.

Initial monitoring the imprisonment proceeded as planned, but within a thousand years, it became obvious that very serious oversights and assumptions had been made. The concept of prisoners remaining in a primal state was shattered when our ancestors set about creating a microcosm of interstellar civilization.

Earth, for the first time in its history, became witness to art, architecture, animal husbandry, agriculture, written languages, advanced mathematics, technology, law, religion and government. It also became witness to the atrocities of modern man. Instead of interbreeding with other hominoids, we began the systematic global slaughter of competing life forms.

AtlantisGenetic testing revealed that the surprising intellectual and technological development of our ancestors was the result of genetic memory. This set off a very heated debate. One side called for immediate extermination of Earth’s prisoners before they genetically “remembered” to the point of achieving interstellar flight, and became a risk of re-infecting intergalactic civilization. The other side firmly believed that if given enough time we would self-destruct, and simply sought to observe us until we do.

Continued observation and assessment of prisoners on the prison planet was agreed upon, under strict conditions, with the number one condition being ‘no contact’.

One of the most hotly debated issues in paleoanthropology (the study of human origins) focuses on the origin of modern humans, Homo sapiens sapiens.

Roughly 300,000 years ago, the Old World was occupied by a morphologically diverse group of hominids (any primate of the family Hominidae). In North America, Africa and the Middle East there were Homo sapiens; in Asia, Homo erectus; and in Europe, Homo neanderthalensis.

By 130,000 years ago, Neanderthals had all become so anatomically distinct, that they were classified as a separate species — Homo neanderthalensis. Then, approximately 50,000 to 60,000 years ago, Cro-magnoids (our ancestors) suddenly appeared on this planet. Instead of living cooperatively with Neanderthals, we annihilated them in North America, Africa and Asia by 40,000 years ago, and in Europe by 25-30,000 years ago.

To date, no definite Neanderthal specimens newer than 25,000 years ago have ever been found...
The Cro-Magnoid people briefly coexisted in Europe with other humanoids, the Neanderthals, whose anatomy and DNA were clearly different from ours. However, obtaining a reliable sequence of Cro-Magnoid DNA was technically challenging. “The risk in the study of ancient individuals is to attribute to the fossil specimen the DNA left there by archaeologists or biologists who manipulated it,” Barbujani says. “To avoid that, we followed all phases of the retrieval of the fossil bones and typed the DNA sequences of all people who had any contacts with them.”

The researchers wrote in the newly published paper: “The Paglicci 23 individual carried a mtDNA sequence that is still common in Europe, and which radically differs from those of the almost contemporary Neanderthals, demonstrating a genealogical continuity across 28,000 years, from Cro-Magnoid to modern Europeans.” The results demonstrate for the first time that the anatomical differences between Neanderthals and Cro-Magnoids were associated with clear genetic differences.

The Neanderthals, who lived at the top of Earth’s food chain for nearly 300,000 years, were not the ancestors of modern humans. We suddenly appeared from somewhere about 50,000 – 60,000 years ago. Despite any similarities of Neanderthals to modern man, they have no direct link to our evolution.

Because we were placed on Earth to protect interstellar civilization from our negative behaviors, it is extremely probable that if we accomplish manned interstellar flight without altering ourselves in a positive way first, we will bring about our imminent destruction. I assure you, our genetic and intellectual development have not just been of interest to us. Will genetic memory lead to human extermination? Possibly.

The fate of man depends on the decisions that humanity makes about a number of issues, such as the environment, social policies, and space exploration. But, nothing will affect the fate of man more than the behavior of mankind, which to date have been deplorable. Extraterrestrials once decided the fate of man when they placed us upon this prison planet, and now the future fate of man rests entirely upon the future decisions we will make.

You may be prone to initially deny the theory that the fate of man was decided by the extraterrestrials who exiled us onto a prison planet, but before you get too comfortable with the assumption that this theory is outrageous and simply cannot be true, look closely at what elements make a theory – whether mine, panspermia, evolution or creation – plausible and probable.

A theory, in the scientific sense of the word, is an analytic structure designed to explain a set of empirical observations.

A scientific theory does two things:

it identifies this set of distinct observations as a class of phenomena
it makes assertions about the underlying reality that brings about or affects this class
In the scientific, or empirical tradition, the term ‘theory’ is reserved for ideas which meet baseline requirements about the kinds of empirical observations made, the methods of classification used, and the consistency of the theory in its application among members of the class to which it pertains.

In general theories are expected to be functional and parsimonious: ie: a theory should be the simplest possible tool that can be used to effectively address the given class of phenomena.

Mankind Is Placed In Prison On Planet Earth

Empirical observations about the theory of human imprisonment on Earth provide clear elements to substantiate it.

A few are:

No evidence of Cro-magnoid existence, or evolution on this planet prior to 50,000 – 60,000 years ago
Cro-magnoid’s possession of intellectual, social, economic and technological abilities never before seen on Earth
Cro-magnoids exhibit criminal and anti-social behaviors
Millions of reported sightings of unidentified flying objects (UFOs), and UFO abductions of Cro-magnoids throughout millenniums
Supportive ancient religious and metaphysical art, artifacts and documents
Following the basics of criminal investigations, set forth are the three aspects needed to convince and convict; means, motive and opportunity.

Means: A civilization that has achieved interstellar flight capability certainly possesses the ability to ‘quarantine’ biological threats.

Motive: Cro-magnoid prisoners have a defined and well documented propensity toward insanity, violence and aggression.

Opportunity: Planets exist in the universe that are biologically capable of supporting hominid life forms (Earth is proof).

We must face the reality that the origin of man is not Earth. We are children of the stars, creatures from outer space, extraterrestrial, alien. Everything that we do, and all the scientific evidence that we gather, verifies that our Cro-Magnon ancestors did not evolve on this planet.

Man was imprisoned on Earth to protect extraterrestrial civilizations from man. It is fact that we are capable of horrible thoughts and actions, but we are also capable of amazing levels of art, technology, love, nurturing and healing. However, our ancestors were not imprisoned here because of all of the inherent ‘good’ qualities. They were exiled to this prison planet to protect interstellar civilizations from our ‘evil’ natures.

Our genetic drive is to reach for the stars, and soon intergalactic space travel will be possible. However, being able to travel beyond our own solar system may be a two-edged sword, for as long as mankind remains imprisoned on Earth, it poses little threat to peace in the universe. However, as the day nears when mankind’s first manned interstellar flight departs, the day also nears when the technological ability of man will force a decision by the extraterrestrials who put us here thousands of years ago to protect themselves.

Man Has Been Warned To Change Since The First Day On Earth

Extraterrestrials have warned mankind to change. And, their warning to change has been global. In fact, they have warned us so often, and in so many parts of the world, that if there is one spiritual thread that runs throughout all human history, it is the knowledge of our need to change our evil nature. Virtually every society and all religions throughout history has warned of great peril to mankind if it does not become ‘righteous’, if it does not ‘repent from sin’, or ‘cleanse’ itself from evil thoughts and actions.

The warning to change has existed in many forms, from generation to generation for thousands and thousands of years, everywhere on Earth. Because extraterrestrial contact with us has always been strictly forbidden, except for necessary testing and assessment, interstellar sympathizers risked great peril in order to warn our ancestors of the terrible fate of man that we face if we refuse to change. A future we now face unchanged.

It is imperative to the fate of man to use all possible resources to locate, then remove or repair whatever it is that makes us such a threat to each other, to this planet, and to peace in the universe. This solitary change in human nature will usher in a new era of civilization on Earth, and in the universe. Imagine a world where there is no greed, or fear of each other. A world of love and respect, and a world devoid of war.

Mankind is destroying its ability to live on planet Earth. We are deliberately, and systematically, exhausting and poisoning the resources we need to survive. By making the betterment of man a priority, the world will stay change, but in a beautiful and environmentally responsible way. The decision to change our behaviors must be of our own collective free will. Continued denial of our problem, and failure to take appropriate action, is very likely suicidal.

We now rapidly approach the junction in time where humanity’s path comes to a crossroads. Down one path lies imminent and certain destruction. Down the other is the fulfillment of our destiny; living peacefully throughout the vast reaches of the universe. We are not a natural part of this planet’s evolution. The origin of man is extraterrestrial. We are exiled aliens, strangers in a strange world. Only change can save the fate of man from certain destruction, either by our own hand, or by the hand of others.

Mankind has demonstrated it has unlimited potential, but it is critical to the fate of man to now use that amazing potential toward building a safe and sustainable future. The advanced drive technologies, electronics and metallurgical miracles that we need for safe interstellar travel lie dormant in us. We are very near to achieving interspecies communication (aliens do not use telepathy to communicate with other species), but to achieve interstellar flight, there needs to a radical departure from our concept of propulsion before interstellar spacecraft can become a reality. However, we may never reveal the wonders within us if we continue the way we are, for we stand on the verge of global self-annihilation, and the fate of man is fast approaching.

The ability for man to be able to communicate with extraterrestrials and other life forms on Earth is also becoming increasingly important. However, we are going about it all wrong. There is a language that all life forms throughout the universe use, and one that we have the ability to learn. And, by learning this ancient form of communication, we will at last be able to communicate with other life, not just on this world, but on other worlds too. This language is known as interspecies communication.

In conclusion, whether you agree or disagree with my theory that mankind was exiled to Earth, thank you for taking the time to read through my website. My theory details my belief about who we are, when we were put here, why we were put here, what we need to do, and how the future will unfold – depending on our choice(s). Secretly, I pray that I am wrong, but scientific fact gathered to date clearly indicates that I am correct about the origin of man being extraterrestrial.


So this is where some interesting posits and a few internet searches took me today. I found the reading very speculative but also quite interesting.
hero member
Activity: 636
Merit: 505
It's not a "story", it is HISTORY; you are wrong, and there is no need to make a movie because Lloyd Pye and others already made their own movies:

Ancient artifacts from other beings, but very little of this makes any sense without Intervention.

https://youtu.be/dtBkkY7txhY

Xester will simply make up his/her own facts and refer to the facts presented by others as "stories".

Scientist who were really intelligent do not believe the existence of our Almighty God, Einstein is exception.
Wow!
You are totally wrong! I am sure that the facts will come as a big surprise to you; please let us hear your arguments for why THESE researchers are ALL exceptions; maybe they were all stupid  Huh...

https://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/eminent_researchers
hero member
Activity: 994
Merit: 544
There are many theories that have been made and why is it never been appreciated by the masses, the reason is not convincing enough and sometimes since there are too many stories people can no longer choose what is right and what is hoax. This theory is just a play of the mind. I too have write stories in very theoretical manner but have never published it.

Though people may not believe this story but it was greatly done, it is a nice concept and hopefully sometime it will be noticed by Hollywood and turn into a movie.

sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
The leftist religion is all about replacing humanity (and love) with collective indebtedness, corruption, and rewarding non-production while penalizing production.

I think you'll find that you are talking about Goldman Sachs' religion there - not those that want an equitable share of wealth, power and opportunity.

The "equitable share" aspect is the evil of your religion. The Bible even speaks to that in numerous places such as the Ten Commandments thou shall not covet your neighbor's... and else where it says not to gang up to steal. And in 1 Samuel 8 the Lord warns, and then fulfills in 1 Samuel 15 what happens to those who organize themselves in collectivism.

Scientifically (mathematically) we can prove that a uniform distribution is static, non-existence. It can't be. It violates the laws of nature.

You have throughout all the annals of history the repeating failure and megadeath from humans attempting to enforce equality and nature always winning the battle.

P.S. I agree with CoinCube that in order to have freedom, we must grant freedom to others. This is the fundamental teaching of the Bible (and I guess Islam) that we must have self-restraint when it comes to violating the freedom of others, otherwise we destroy our own freedom. The collectivists prefer the religion of Satan which deceives them into thinking that man is more powerful than Physics. The differences between CoinCube and I are on the extent of organization into a social structure which requires a lot of superfluous rules in order to protect that social structure from defection and dilution. For an effective K strategy, you need this social superstructure. I am leaning more R strategy, but I haven't worked this all out in my mind yet as to whether it is possible to pursue an R strategy and not violate the freedom of others thus destroying my own freedom. I haven't fully evaluated yet all the ramifications ranging from those within my life and on my evolutionary legacy. I do note that I was not organized at all in my life strategy and this is has played out chaotically as would be expected. CoinCube points out that governance structures may be evolving towards more mutual freedoms. I haven't thought about that yet. And that evolution may be much too slow to concern me.
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
Conservatism at least in our modern iteration also steals.

Your examples were leftism. Republicanism isn't conservatism. They are all leftists to some degree. Conservatists advocate nearly no governance.

Again I ask for any counter argument?

Conservatism as you define it does not exist as a sustainable stand alone structure. It naturally morphs into Republicanism/Monarchism/Despotism unless it is built upon a stable superstructure.

It exists as a personal stable culture, akin to how the Jews are orthogonal to any nation-state.

I've been practicing it in my life so far.

I am not going to try to control what society does. Society will always self-destruct. Waste of time. That is why I have never voted and never will.

I don't tie/bind myself to the Titanic. The decision has trade-offs. Especially without a superstructure of like-minded friends who share the same values. I am trying to find them here, but they are few and far between. I had hoped you were one, but you are not. You want to build society. I understand. You are not incorrect. It is a choice. An evolutionary strategy.

iamnotback I addressed this issue in my most recent post in the Health and Religion thread. I have copied this post below.

Freedom and God

Quote from: Colorado Springs Gazette Telegraph April 14,1958
Freedom is neither license nor anarchy: It does not mean chaos or the use of tooth and nail. Freedom does not give any man or group the right to steal, to use fraud or aggressive force or threats of same to get what one wants.

Freedom is the right of the individual to choose how he controls himself, so long as he respects the equal rights of every other individual to control and plan his own life. Freedom is thus not the ability to do whatever you want. It is self-control, and self-government, no more, no less.

Quote from: Wendy McElroy
Thus "freedom is self-control" leads to the conclusion that as acting individuals, we must respect the rights and boundaries of others. In other words, every individual should control his or her actions such that they do not aggress or invade against other individuals or their rightfully owned properties. "Freedom" as "self-control" points up the dual nature of human existence: of the Self (mind, soul, and spirit) housed in a physical body. Human beings require both spiritual freedom and physical liberty

The evolution of the social contract is a progressive climb to systems with increased overall freedom. The state of nature begat tribalism. Tribalism grew into despotism. Despotism advanced into monarchy. Monarchies were replaced by republics. Each iteration has a common theme for each advance increased overall cooperative activity and freedom the system permitted.

The ultimate driver behind this process is Ethical Monotheism for this is the underappreciated foundation that freedom rests upon. The Ten Commandments are often misunderstood as as restrictions. In reality they are the road map to freedom. To better understand this I highly recommend the following 5 minute video clip from Prager University.

God Wants Us To Be Free

Freedom out-competes slavery. This is why the Odin worshiping vikings were replaced by Christian vikings. It is the ultimate reason why Arab polytheism was replaced by Islam and why the Jews who who's traditions demand an individual understanding and observance of scripture have so excelled.

Quote from: Bob LeFevre
A person is responsible for every action he takes and for every action he refuses to take. Thus, he is responsible for commissions and omissions, and whether these are good or bad. The individual is the responsible unit. Responsibility cannot be collectively delegated. Each person is responsible in exactly the same way and to the same degree that every other person is.

At the level of the individual we again return to choice. Do we truly care about freedom or do we care about our cravings and wants? If we choose freedom we must embrace that which makes freedom possible. If we choose whims and desires we should admit to ourselves that we do not prioritize freedom and are most concerned with our ability to sate our appetites.
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