Topic: Intervention Theory: An alternative to Darwinism and Creationism - page 5. (Read 9423 times)

Yet by the same logic is it not possible that events occurred as written in Genesis but human understanding is simply incapable of fully grasping them? Perhaps we were given knowledge that is true yet simplified to a level that enabled us to have some basic understanding of a process that is simply beyond us? We had a discussion along these lines earlier.

Was the creation accomplished in 6 days... plus a following day of rest?

From the standpoint of our simple determinations, we do not know because we were not there, and there are way too many things that could have happened that are way beyond our ability to determine.

For example. The whole plan of the universe existed in the mind of God "before" He started creation. Since God used a tiny amount of His great strength to create the universe, the fact that plants were created before the sun, moon, and stars... and the fact that the 24-hour day existed before the scribing of the planetary action by which we understand the 24-hour day... shows that God's power carried everything just as He had it written down in the Bible, no matter how we want to delude ourselves into thinking things happened.

Since the topic of this thread has turned to Judaism in the last few posts here is an opinion from a Jewish Rabbi on this topic.

Was Creation Really Seven Days?
http://www.thejewishweek.com/editorial-opinion/sabbath-week/was-creation-really-seven-days

It took a long time for humans to appear ..Just remember NO ZAP and we were here..

In the 21st century with new sciences we will discover many things that we once thought so are not so..
But one thing we do know because of science it takes time for things to happen and it's impossible to
Zap a human and a world in 6 days.. ..
Even if aliens from another galaxy made the earth it still not gods it's science ..

I think perhaps it might be helpful to briefly cover what the Torah and the Talmud are.

What's the Difference Between the Torah and the Talmud?
http://www.aish.com/atr/Torah_versus_Talmud.html

It is commonly accepted by all Jews that the Talmud or Oral Torah was codified into written form by Rabbis several hundred years following the time of Moses and the Written Torah. This has led to a schism in Judaism over the divine nature of the Oral Torah.

There are some branches of of Judaism such as Karaite Judaism which reject the Oral Torah altogether viewing it as human opinion and therefore not binding. Within Rabbinic Judaism which is far larger than Karaite Judaism disagreement remains between the Reform, Conservative, and Orthodox branches.

Below is a link to the opinion of three Rabbi's one Reform, one Conservative, and one Orthodox on the topic of whether the Talmud (written by Rabbis) carries the same divine authority at the Written Torah.

http://www.jewishvaluesonline.org/37

According to this source it appears the Orthodox are most likely to hold the Talmud as divinely inspired and the Reform movement the least likely.  

Regarding the content of the Talmud itself I cannot comment for I have no knowledge of the topic. However, I have never heard anyone argue that Jesus took his teachings from the Talmud. This would strike me as a hard argument to make given that the aristocratic Jewish elite at the time the Sadducees rejected the Talmud altogether. Regarding unfavorable writings by early Jewish Rabbis towards Christianity is that really a surprise?

Historic Jewish Views on Christianity
http://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/jewish-views-on-christianity/3/  

Edit: Here is an interesting little video that goes over the differences between Rabbinic and Karaite Judaism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRb7DhWS6Z8&list=PLhG1viERKhXfnbaJp2JlphCVX3OvewpFp

Quoting further from this important material:


The United States Supreme Court has recognized the “secondary meaning” of words. The highest court in the land has established as basic law that “secondary meanings” can acquire priority rights to the use of any dictionary word. Well-planned and well-financed world-wide publicity through every available media by well-organized groups of so-called or self-styled “Jews” for three centuries has created a “secondary meaning” for the word “Jew” which has completely “blacked out” the original and correct meaning of the word “Jew”. There can be no doubt about that.

There is not one person in the whole English-speaking world today who regards a “Jew” as a “Judean” in the literal sense of the word. That was the correct and only meaning in the 18th century. The generally accepted “secondary meaning” of the word “Jew” today with practically no exceptions is made up of four almost universally-believed theories. These four theories are that a so-called or self-styled “Jew” is (1) a person who today professes the form of religious worship known as “Judaism”, (2) a person who claims to belong to a racial group associated with the ancient Semites, (3) a person directly the descendant of an ancient nation which thrived in Palestine in Bible history, (4) a person blessed by Divine intentional design with certain superior cultural characteristics denied to other racial, religious or national groups, all rolled into one.

The present generally accepted “secondary meaning” of the word “Jew” is fundamentally responsible for the confusion in the minds of Christians regarding elementary tenets of the Christian faith. It is likewise responsible today to a very great extent for the dilution of the devotion of countless Christians for their Christian faith.

Apparently the 613 rules the Jews must abide, require them to use honest weights and measures:

http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm

Thus the fractional reserve banksters such as Soros,Rothschilds etc are not religious Jews (even they claim to descend from Jews or took up the label as a Jew), as admitted by Soros in that 60 Minutes video (banned by YouTube now) in which he had admitted he isn't religious.

Probably the reason the Jews have these strict laws is they are trying to preserve their cultural homogeneity as their group evolutionary strategy. I know from my own experience, that if you intermarry into another culture, you take on all the baggage of that other culture. Yet qwik2learn may have a point, that like most organized religions, it may be another corruption (and yet that may be complementary with an effective K group evolutionary strategy for average males).

It is interesting to note the Torah allows the man to divorce his wife for any reason instantly with a signed declaration. She can then remarry. But the (New Testament at least of) Bible says that that once a man and woman bond in the flesh, they are one and let no man undo what God hath done. It is that rule that I found impossible for me since I had already violated it more than several times. I tried to start following that rule when I came closer to Christianity circa 2006 but I found it just caused me to lie to myself. I think it denies natural pressures to pursue an R evolutionary strategy by default in the absence of any strong cultural heritage and family purpose disincentivizing a male from doing do so. We are given a situation in life, and we can't always choose to be in another situation thus the strategies which are available and compatible with others may not be available to others. But I do understand there is a distinction between an alphamale R evolutionary strategy who deposits his semen for betamales to raise his offspring (e.g. Genghis Khan) and a betamale K group evolutionary strategy which is greatly aided by religion. You've got to limit those alphamales because too much R strategy can cause the society to malfunction. We need some R strategy to improve the gene pool, but it must be highly difficult and competitive. (Note I am not claiming I was trying to father children which I didn't take care of, nor saying I did this.)

I am still not sure where I fit into all this. I am just writing down observations. And trying to sort in my mind what my value system is and should be w.r.t. to group evolutionary strategy and my evolutionary strategy for my genes.

Edit: to expound a bit. In my case, I think it is the case wherein when your father abandons you and/or doesn't provide any culture you want to emulate, you don't really have a strong natural inclination to follow a K strategy, because afaics K strategy bonds are driven significantly (if not entirely) by the extension of the family tree and heritage and the emotions and pride that plays into that. This is why I understand why the Jewish faith doesn't allow intermarriage with goyim (who haven't converted) because the heritage of your culture and the religion that holds the families together can be easily polluted and lost. In my case, it is very difficult to form a new culture or family heritage all by myself. I have to take on the identity and heritage of the family I am marrying into, which didn't work out well for me to say the least. Lol.

Religious worship known and practiced today under the name “Judaism” by so-called or self-styled “Jews” throughout the world was known and practiced in Judea in the time of Jesus under the name “Pharisaism” according to Rabbi Louis Finkelstein, head of The Jewish Theological Seminary of America, and all the other most competent and qualified recognized authorities on the subject.

The form of religious worship known as “Pharisaism” in Judea in the time of Jesus was a religious practice based exclusively upon the Talmud. The Talmud in the time of Jesus was the Magna Charta, the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights, all rolled into one, of those who practiced “Pharisaism”. The Talmud today occupies the same relative position with respect to those who profess “Judaism”. The Talmud today virtually exercises totalitarian dictatorship over the lives of so-called or self-styled “Jews” whether they are aware of that fact or not. Their spiritual leaders make no attempt to conceal the control they exercise over the lives of so-called or self-styled “Jews”. They extend their authority far beyond the legitimate limits of spiritual matters. Their authority has no equal outside religion.

The eminent Rabbi Louis Finkelstein, the head of the The Jewish Theological Seminary of America, often referred to as the “The Vatican of Judaism”, in his Forward to his First Edition of this world-famous classic “The Pharisees, The Sociological Background of Their Faith”, on page XXI states:

“. . .Judaism. . .Pharisaism became Talmudism, Talmudism became Medieval Rabbinism, and Medieval Rabbinism became Modern Rabbinism. But throughout these changes in name. . .the spirit of the ancient Pharisees survives, unaltered. . .From Palestine to Babylonia; from Babylonia to North Africa, Italy, Spain, France and Germany; from these to Poland, Russia, and eastern Europe generally, ancient Pharisaism has wandered. . .demonstrates the enduring importance which attaches to Pharisaism as a religious movement. . .”

In case you have never had the opportunity to investigate the contents of the “63 books” of the Talmud so well summarized by Rabbi Morris N. Kertzer in his illuminating article “What is a Jew”, previously quoted, may I here impose upon your precious time and quote a few passages for you until you find the time to conveniently investigate the Talmud’s contents personally. If I can be of any assistance to you in doing so please do not hesitate to let me know in what manner you can use my help.

From the Birth of Jesus until this day there have never been recorded more vicious and vile libelous blasphemies of Jesus, of Christians and the Christian faith by anyone, anywhere, or anytime than you will find between the covers of the infamous “63 books” which are “the legal code which forms the basis of Jewish religious law” as well as the “textbook used in the training of rabbis”. The explicit and implicit irreligious character and implications of the contents of the Talmud will open your eyes as they have never been opened before. The Talmud reviles Jesus, Christians and the Christian faith as the priceless spiritual and cultural heritage of Christians has never been reviled before or since the Talmud was completed in the 5th century. You will have to excuse the foul, obscene, indecent, lewd and vile language you will see here as verbatim quotations from the official unabridged translation of the Talmud into English. BE PREPARED FOR A SURPRISE.

The Soncino Edition of the Talmud with its footnotes is like a double-edged sword. It teaches the Talmud to countless millions of the younger generation of so-called or self-styled “Jews” who are not able to read the Talmud in the many ancient languages in which the Talmud was written by its authors between 200 B.C. and 500 A.D. It also teaches Christians what the Talmud has to say about Jesus, about Christians and about the Christian faith. Someday this is bound to back-fire. Christians will some day challenge the assertion that the Talmud is the “sort of book” from which Jesus allegedly “drew the teachings which enabled him to revolutionize the world” on “moral and religious subjects”. The rumbling is already heard in places.

Before giving any more verbatim quotations from the “sort of book” from which it is falsely alleged Jesus “drew the teachings which enable him to revolutionize the world” on “moral and religious subjects” I wish to here again recall to your attention the official statement by Rabbi Morris N. Kertzer in Look Magazine for June 17, 1952. In that official statement made by Rabbi Morris N. Kertzer on behalf of the American Jewish Committee, self-styled “The Vatican of Judaism”, informed the 20,000,000 readers of Look magazine that the Talmud “IS THE LEGAL CODE WHICH FORMS THE BASIS OF JEWISH RELIGIOUS LAW AND IT IS THE TEXTBOOK USED IN THE TRAINING OF RABBIS”. Please bear this mind as your read further.

The truth about the Talmud and how it relates to Christians is a must-read; I am quoting from Chapter 4:
http://phoenixsourcedistributors.com/html/j025/

I would agree that the video you linked to above shows two Jewish men (probably Ultra-Orthodox) who say some rather disturbing things such as:

"All the non Jews in the world exist for the Jews benefit."

There are bigots and racists among all peoples be they Jews, Christians, Muslims, or Others. Even with my, very limited, knowledge of Judaism I am confident in stating that the views expressed by those two (probably drunk) Jews in the video do not accurately represent Judaism as a whole.


Charges Against the Jews
http://archive.adl.org/presrele/asus_12/the_talmud.pdf

Jewish Attitudes Toward Non-Jews
http://www.jewfaq.org/gentiles.htm

Because the goyim choose to enslave themselves with the leftist, atheist religion. Thus is intellectually honest to refer to them as having a group evolutionary strategy which is more idiotic than that of cows. Giving the goyim their free will is not analogous to treating/thinking of them as sub-human. One can be objective that the goyim choose their fate upon granted their free will to choose. (I don't identify myself as a goyim even though I might be, but I am not quite sure what I am and what group evolutionary strategy I have chosen even if by default, as this is a matter for more future study and reflection)

And there is no freedom from the NATURAL LAW. You can pretend you are free without any NATURAL LAW consequences, but you are lying to yourself if you do.

As CoinCube has explained, the core of the Christian faith is about individual adherence to the NATURAL LAW (which includes the natural law outcome of the group evolutionary strategy). There are of course Christian sects which have fallen away from the core point of Christianity. As for the issue of Jews vs. Jesus, I am not sufficiently knowledgeable on that theology aspect and so I don't have anything to say on that matter.

The Lord commands Christians to not have a King (a State) in 1 Samuel 8. But the people do not listen. Thus he gives them the State they reap. If everyone followed the NATURAL LAW, in theory we wouldn't need a King on earth to rule over us.


Every human has to decide to interopt with society and nature in some form of group evolutionary strategy. We don't get a free pass from that decision. It is unavoidable, even by default.

It appears you missed the class on Talmudic Judaism because everything you typed only pertains to Jews dealing with other Jews.  Non-Jews are referred to as "goyim", and are essentially cattle to be used as slaves.

Here they are in a 1 minute clip flat out saying it as usual.  No, this is not even close to a one off; this is the norm:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCLtAbULUtw

My understanding is that the Judaism holds that personal responsibility and the Torah is the way to  achieve true freedom. They view the 10 commandments in particular as necessary restrictions to maintain a free society. The Jewish view on freedom is nuanced.

Judaism and Freedom
http://m.chabad.org/holidays/passover/pesach_cdo/aid/161003/jewish/What-Kind-of-Freedom-is-this-Anyway.htm

Another less abstract explanation of the same point can be found here:
https://www.prageru.com/courses/religionphilosophy/i-am-lord-your-god

There is no doubt that many Jews especially secular Jews currently and historically have taken leadership roles in the left and many of those causes are undoubtedly collectivists.

However, the left is not Judiadm a point that was highlighted recently by Dennis Prager who is Jewish.

Left-Wing Jews Are Embarrassing Judaism
http://www.dennisprager.com/left-wing-jews-are-embarrassing-judaism/

For the reasons above I therefore disagree with the claim that Judaism is collectivists though the Jewish left certainly is. Torah observant Judaism appears to be arguing that true freedom requires responsibility and presenting itself as the optimal way to achieve freedom. That is one of the reasons I find the religion so fascinating.

Most irrational thing I've ever read.  Jews are the most collectivist, borg-like, hive mind people on the planet.  This is why they're currently winning.  History is a lesson of individuals coming in contact with collectivist groups, who then force the individual into his own collectivist group in order to not be trampled.  

You attempted to take a contrarian viewpoint on the Jewish question out of some ego trip and failed miserably.  It's already been analyzed by millions of intelligent people before all coming to the same conclusion.

Collectivists are a threat to the freedom of the individual, but collectivists cannot be beaten without participating in an opposing collectivist group yourself.

Incorrect. The Nazis (and all groups other than the Jews) practice evolutionary groupwise self-destruction. The Nazis were collectivists (go study it!).

The Jews are succeeding because their group strategy is correctly aligned with the natural laws of nature.

The Jews sit outside the collectivism and anneal with it groupwise. The is essentially what George Soros was saying when he said being amoral w.r.t. to opportunity costs is rational. This is why the Jews don't do usury to each other (they are a small group scattered across many collectivist regimes, forming a common philosophical bond or group strategy, and usury is collectivism paradigm in the large), only to the other gentiles.

Collectivism is the fault of those who participate in it. The Jews did not take away the free will of the gentiles. Even farm animals have less free will then the gentiles. No wonder the gentiles are less intelligent (on a groupwise basis) than cows, because they choose collectivism every damn time even though the Lord said not to in 1 Samuel 8.

Example:

Intervention Theory is simply another plaything that some people use to distract us from all-pervading cause and effect.

I believe it comes from this guy. The first paragraph was missing it's quotes.

Baum, Bruce David (2006). The Rise and Fall of the Caucasian Race: A Political History of Racial Identity. New York City / London: New York University Press. p. 156

Below is a paper arguing that the Nazis did believe in social Darwinism.
https://www.csustan.edu/sites/default/files/History/Faculty/Weikart/Darwinism-in-Nazi-Racial-Thought.pdf

Whoever wrote this sentence gets an F-.  Anarchy is social Darwinism, while Nazism is group evolutionary strategy.  Jews practice Nazism themselves, they just call it "Zionism" or "Judaism" as a red herring when both groups practice the exact same thing:

http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Jewish_group_evolutionary_strategy

The best example of WW2 code breaking was the Tunny code for that was the more complex code used for high level communications. It was more secure then enigma which was for routine army communications. Less people know about Tunny because it was not declassified until 2002.

https://www.codesandciphers.org.uk/lorenz/fish.htm

The weather definitely played a huge role in the Nazi defeat but most people believe it was a normal Russian winter that so hindered the Germans when it was anything but normal. In fact it may have been the worst winter in the history of modern Russia. In was part of a global climate anomaly that led to warmer temperatures in the US especially Alaska and shockingly cold temperatures in European Russia. Below is a study on that abnormality if you are interested.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/store/10.1256/wea.248.04/asset/2005601203_ftp.pdf;jsessionid=5315F60F80655CFF39BD158D8AFF5E94.f03t04?v=1&t=iwtytht6&s=20cbb924f6b287ee48ab4b9d71231917c48a314a

The US entry eventually may not be a surprise but the speed of that entry is of note. It took the US three years to enter into WWI for example and public opinion was absolutely against US involvement in WWII. Pearl Harbor changed that calculus and accelerated US entry into the war by at least six months maybe more. Below is an analysis by a historian arguing that Roosevelt would not have gotten a declaration of War without Pearl Harbor.

http://www.historynet.com/would-fdr-have-gotten-a-declaration-of-war-without-pearl-harbor.htm