Topic: [IoP] Fermat presents the Internet of People App Token - page 15. (Read 66321 times)

IoP can now be traded on BTCPOP: https://btcpop.co/Exchange/IoP

Very detailed response. I think that you understand that all of new perceived very hard and often indiscriminately called scam.

Hi, sorry for seeing this a little bit late. Anyway my two cents:

I started Fermat more than 2 years ago. By that time there was already a lot of noise in this industry and scams everywhere. I decided first to build something and later raise funds, in contrast with so many other projects doing just the opposite. During the first 6 months I worked full time on this, with the help of some friends from the time I was doing banking systems. During this first phase I counted the hours spent by these people in order to compensate them in the future. These were the very early investors. During the next months I searched for an angel investor willing to finance a year of development. By that time only the vision and the architecture and design of the solution was there, nothing else. The investor bought a first set of "imaginary" tokens at 0.29 cents each. She invested $200,000.

We didn't have a blockchain by that time and we didn't have plans to implemented in the short term neither. The money was better invested on building the components of future person to person apps and learning if such apps were feasible.

I organized then a programming competition and during 2 months I selected the best Java programmers in Argentina, my home country. The prize was to come to Budapest where I live, to build the core of the system during the summer, plus accommodation, flight tickets, a laptop and a monthly payment. Although the competition targeted Argentinian devs, the word spread throughout Latin Amarica and people from different countries participated. In the final selection there were 4devs from Argentina and 2 from Venezuela.

All of them arrived to Budapest on time and we starting developing with this initial team in Jun 2015. We had a great time there and a lot of fun anecdotes beyond the coding. (Maybe someday I will write about them). When I was about to pay these guys, I offered them to reinvest their "salaries" into the project tokens, and to my surprise each and everyone of them wanted to reinvest. Perhaps because they already had accommodation or maybe they truly liked the project. After some months I saw that the budget was not being spent as expected since they were choosing the tokens and not the dollars. As the tokens were not in the market, since they didn't even existed, we had to figure out which would be a fair price for them.

We expected to have in 6 months a prototype, so if we were a startup that would mean being ready for a seed round. At that time there was a site tracking all investment in crypto currency startups, and from there, after some analysis you could estimate that the valuation range at which a seed round was raised in this industry. The range was between 6M and 12M. So we imagined that by the time we had that prototype ready our valuation should be at least 6M, the lower part of the range. So we arbitrarily increased the price of the imaginary token month over month until reaching the price equivalent to a 6M valuation by the end of 1015.

At the same time, since the budget was largely unspent and the project quite complex,we thought that there might be more devs, designers and testers that would like to join with a similar deal, meaning reinvesting a large amount of their compensation. People in Venezuela motivated by these 2 first members where in a special good condition to do that, because of the situation in their county they could live with extremely little cash (in dollars terms) and reinvest all the rest. So the project quickly grew in numbers of contributors by word of mouth throughout Latin America, specially inside Venezuela. At a peak time there were more that 100 people contributing, a third of them devs, another thirds designers, and the rest testers, entrepreneurs and others.

With those numbers the $200,000 were being used fast and a lot of tokens were being distributed among all this people. The angel investor at the end of 2015 with a friend of her decided to take another round, this time of $450,000 at a price between 2 and 3 USD per token. (still imaginary).

During 2016 we all agree to continue increasing the token price to reflect the work added to the project by all these people, and everyone was happy to reinvest their compensation at each months price. During summer 2016, the proof of concept was finished and we were ready to start production quality code, no more prototyping. By that time we also stopped issuing more imaginary tokens, since we needed to stop to close the accounting and prepare the distribution of the real tokens, now at the blockchain.


A professional senior team of devs were hired for that by the end of the summer and we started working on the components of the Internet of People. This is a smaller team, with one dev in UK, 2 in Hungary, 2 in Argentina and 1 in Estonia. We finally implemented our token blockchain at the end of 2016 summer, and on top of it our first version of the mining by licenses and mining cap. Also the governance functionality for voting for projects to be paid by the blockchain is in testing by now. The IoP Profile Server (the main component of the internet of people) will enter alpha before the end of the year, together with the geolocated p2p network and the content address network.

Once the blockchain was ready, all the imaginary tokens were distributed. Before that we realized that we issued to many tokens, like 17% of the total supply, so we decided to scale it back to 10% multiplying all tokens held by anyone with a factor of 0.5 something, just to make them all fit within 10% that is something currently accepted by the industry.

On top of that we didn't want dumpers on the market so we figure it out how to use the quite new bitcoin functionality of time-locking some percentage of the tokens. We decided that 25% of everyones tokens would be frozen in 6 months, 1,2,3,4 and 5 years in some cases. That would make dumping and crashing the market stupid since everyone has tokens time-locked.

10 days ago we entered the first exchange, and of the 2.1 M premined tokens only a few thousands are being sold. That is because most of the token holders don't want to sell and wont do it because they are here for the long run. Specially big token holders. The only tokens around available are the ones of some of these Venezuelan people that unfortunately they fight everyday to put food on the table. We have great plans to grow, plenty of good and original ideas.

This month our voting system, similar to the one of Dash will be ready and that will enable us to do many things, like for example start a PR campaign. To be honest we are not focus right now on the token price or market, we are mainly building our components and also building our community.

If you are a dev, you might enjoy visiting our github repos and see what we are doing there. If you are not, talk to Markus to see how you can join the community.

https://github.com/fermat-org

I have written several posts in medium explaining in plain English what we are doing and why. Here is a link you can follow to find my posts there:

https://medium.com/search?q=luis%20fernando%20molina

also, here is a link to the spreadsheet we used to track the imaginary tokens while the blockchain was not ready:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Fx29tzswHQN7YPjsFwlTnOyGZzY-sWUTA71URzmueug/edit?usp=sharing

A few weeks ago we were all happy to be listed by coinmarket cap, just to quickly learn that the value at Available Supply was wrong. We tweeted them, filled their change form several times, communicate with them over email, and still we can not get that figure corrected. We understand that our available supply are the pre-mined tokens minus 25% of the pre-mined time locked plus the 13,000 tokens mined so far. They refused so far to change that figure stating that only 13,000 are available. That impacts in our market cap calculation effectively discriminating us, since with such a number our market cap is ridiculously low. We hope to make them understand their mistake. Their argument is that tokens held by devs and investors are not part of the available supply. This is ridiculous since any of these can trade them anytime, except the ones time locked. They didn't subtracted all the tokens held by Satoshi on the case of bitcoins.

The previous is an extremely condensed history of the project so far. Unless you go to github, you would not be able to see the hundred of thousands of hours invested by people in this project.

It is easy to come and dismiss our work as a scam after spending 5 minutes on it. I understand it only in the context of so many scam in this industry. We had our fair share of scammers inside the project doing quite a lot of harm. But reality is that we are doing a good job based on what we believe in. Fermat doesn't need to do ICO or sell more tokens, or convince anyone to go and buy them. We are fine building our system, people is already coming to us and joining. We just listed our token in the market and people that can understand what we are doing are going to by them. That is good enough for us at this stage.

You can ask me any further question, I am checking this thread from time to time. And if you finally like our vision, consider joining us, after all this story is just begining.

Luis

yesterday evening marmai had an google hangout session opened for Chapters Q&A. Biggest part was recorded, so i really recommend if you have few mins to watch this video and get walkthru and easier understanding of IoP

Q&A for Fermat Local Chapters | with Community Manager Markus

actually one Chapter x miners, you can join your chapter and claim unclaimed licences for various tasks. you should however be in contact to other members (president) so there is no conflict of interest. you can always also bring new chapters and claim referral licence and there is no limit how many you can have. world is big, start contacting your old friends and motivate them to join.

damn yeah i can't wait..*My Body is ready lol hope will give a surprise

only 7 blocks left for new window 8 let see what happens with difficulty

It looks it is already filled I am one person late,so it's one country one miner only  I don't know how good is that i understand that you don't want big miners to mine IoP but limiting one miner per country is not really good in my opinion,so does it mean we will have to wait until that guy stop mining so we can apply again?

1. look into the mining sheet and find your chapter.
2. look if there are spots open to claim (like facebook, twitter, meetups)
3. make a comment with your data (fb page, mining wallet address)

that's it!

If there is no chapter from your country, then you can claim the spot and be the first in your country and become chapter president. then you find people fill the spots and start building your Fermat Chapter biz.

I read that to mine this coin you need a license for this and there are guidelines and requirements to mine Fermat,if for example I choose to run a dedicated facebook page to run about Fermat how can I submit my work,I don't know but there's something here that's worth a second look I'm still the potential of this coin.

Something quite new. But I still can not figure out what's what, I must greater insight into information.

Hello LiskQH,

In the beginning of our beta-early-mining phase we follow the model of the survival of the fittest:
You can claim a spot and gain the right to mine. If the Chapter President is not answering to you, or giving relevant expression how to get things sorted out, I am willing to let more driven and committed people replace them.
Later, when we open the gates to the whole world, this will not be guided by us, but the people inside of the chapters rule their president and leaders.

Please get in touch with me directly, we will look into your issue with Russia and find a solution.
People willing to do something more than ordinary, investing much time now, asking right Questions and proving to help the community are precious. So we will sort it out. I think you are referring to the russian OP. We will change this to a more resposible person, if that helps.

So, now to your questions:
Yes, a huge chunk of 10% pre-mining was paid in hard Dollars. You can't imagine this maybe, as we don't advertise such things, but we had times with more than 20-30 thousand dollars in wages per month for the over 120 people involved in this project. Not to mention those that were joining for smaller tasks, those over 180 in slack, etc... We have a semi-public ledger, where members of Fermat can look into and control all payments, each wage, each payment, for every member and for each month over the period from 2014 till 2016. Every cent is listed in this.

So I can guarantee you, that, while we are (remember, we started in 2014 !!) in the not-so-popular-anymore-pre-mining scheme – because of all of this scams in the last years – we are one of the very few maximum transparent and fair out there.
Not one investor is able to cash all tokens out and run away. The time locks are set to 6 months, 12, 24, 36 .. months. The time locks are written in the blockchain (everybody can proof) and this is in public in our github repository, check it out yourself if you like to know how we have done this.

Ok, then, why still people are dumping them? Who is doing this?
One third of the people contributing to this gigantic project have been Venezuelans and Argentinians.
Especially the Venezuelans have 1500% Inflation because of their extrem crazy Socialism.
The Shop owners don't count the money anymore, they are weighting it! So with less than 1$ you can survive the day!

Now imagine, what would you do, if you have 2000 IoP and your money is nothing worth?
You start selling every day 5 - 20 IoP, no matter what price, you know you could easily survive the next 1-2 years doing so.
Also some of the new miners do the same. We are aware of that.

But if you look, with 2-5 BTC trading Volume, there is no large scale dumping. So we decided internally not to buy them out. We could. But we let the free market do it. Even if those 10-20% dumpers sell all their Tokens for 0.01$ - we won't care. This is good for the market. By the way, we really cannot speak from dumping as it is by this time of speaking several $ worth! :-)

Now let us look into the near future:
We are going professional with connecting to FinTech business in 2017.

Imagine what happens, if just one big investor is buying IoP for, lets say 10.000 Bitcoin? Or less, let's say 500 Bitcoin?
I can tell you: There are no cheap Tokens anymore on the Market! Because the Majority of the token Holders don't sell cheap.

Now imagine what happens, if I tell you, that we are already talking to some bigger whales and pioneers in this area...
What happens if they buy in and leave us with no Tokens on the market... but 150 Miners with one precious mining licence each bringing a small constant flow of fresh rare tokens? I mean, we are not talking about dPoS way of dumping Tokens to the market by forging...

TL;DR
Those how jump on now, try to gain 100 Followers in Twitter from Zero, study blockchain, learn Fermat's IoP and maybe struggle a bit in the beginning of 2017 ti get this all sorted, they will be recognized as IoP experts in their field by end of 2017 - and only them where mining till the point we open up to the world!


From here I will leave this open and up to your fantasy…

there is no bounty to collect anymore, you can do it volunteering if you want.

how about article/blog ? i'm ready

i am ready create a nice blog dev, please pm me

i am ready too create a nice article, om me

!reposting for better visibility

What one does with his mined IoP is his concern, just remember that mining cap will go lower and lower as more ppl join. And you will need IoP when POW/POS hybrid gets released to be able to mine further. plus self-governing system will require 1000 IoP deposit for proposal of your project to get funded by the IoP blockchain. not good idea to sell this early. but you know how they say: "easy come, easy go"

@LiskQH thats good idea, we should attach bitcointalk profile to sreadsheet. i think it's more than 70% from bitcointalk community running chapters. i will ask marmai if it can be done. just remember some ppl like to stay anonym, semi anonym or not attach their real name to bitcointalk account! me for example have no problem with it
Gabriel

i agree with you, community concerns should be answered. nobody can guarantee that one of those holders won't sell their share sooner or later but what i can guarantee is that IoP is limited and it will get bought by believers if that happens at which rate this is open for speculations. one thing to note is that this project was funded mostly by outside investors, non crypto. they tend not to speculate and usually hold long (few years).

I have a question, you wanted to join russian chapter? i saw they didn't claim their website licence, maybe you can build website in russian for fermat and start mining. just fill (comment) on russian row and you will get accepted. that's how you can join, by claiming something from that chapter they did not claim. GL

Thanks for your answers, is a pity that the Russian Chapter, not also well works as you.

There are some guarantees that 10% of premine (this 2100000 IoP) cannot be brought to market any minute?

You have to understand my concern, and looking at your rank you have to remember 1001 cases when it happened to different coins. Not all people are honest, unfortunately.

Therefore, the community has to know this information to be sure.

Q:Perhaps we not misunderstand each other. But it is not my fault. You have chapters in Russia but it does not do anything (however as well as all your chapters). He did not answer one of my questions. Everything that it does, it sells the coins at the exchange.
A:I think so also, for you to understand what role i play in all this. I Joined in early Oktober this year when all this Chapter Concept started, was the first and built Swiss Chapter together with Amadeo, testing and was the one that set the standards for other Chapters to follow (social media, POA, involvement). Chapter governance system is something never done before, you cant expect Chapter network model to be running perfectly this early. i can tell you didn't do any research and i don't have time to take you by your hand and guide you. i recommend you start reading here. What one does with his mined IoP is his concern, just remember that mining cap will go lower and lower as more ppl join.
 
Q:Probably, they should leave a weak point, and will go to a forum to give answers to people.
A:?

Answer to these questions step by step:

1. Q:The limited number of people is engaged in production now. About 40 people. Correctly?
A:I guess by production you mean mining? i think more than 40 ppl are mining, since some chapters have more than one member. How many exactly, go check spreadsheet and count them yourself i will not do it for you. In github there are in total 76 contributors to the code since beginning..

2. Q:Now, it is available 2112258 IOP as you told. From where this quantity of coins undertook?
A:10% premine=2,100,000 IoP, rest is/has being mined by Chapters

3. Q:Who possesses these coins?
A:Who possesses premine IoP you mean? it's all documented, if you want to review it ask Luis for access to spreadsheet. The rest is being fairly distributed in form of Mining and POA (Proof of Action). read Chapters

4. Q:You want to tell that investors bought 2112258 IOP?  
A:Premine was 10% means 2,100,000 IoP, how many was bought and at what rate and what was distributed is something you can see on that document. ask Luis for access.

5. Q:You say that they bought them on 12 dollars? It means that you have 24 million dollars now?
A:contributors, developers, bug bounties were paid out in form of IoP at $12 convert value. means they received IoP tokens in converted value of 1IoP=12$ for various tasks. What investors paid, ask Luis.

6. Q:If it not so, then tell what exact quantity of coins was bought by investors? And how many at you is dollars?
A:ask Luis or marmai per PM. i don't have this information.

Facit: i can understand your concerns, still you need to understand that Fermat project is not dependent on your investment and nobody asked you to invest or buy. only thing you all are kindly asked is to join and create decentralized Chapter network of trusted full nodes necessary for further evaluation and success of this project. you are even being incentivized by joining this early..