Author

Topic: IOTA - page 681. (Read 1473405 times)

legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
February 05, 2016, 04:48:28 AM
i'm ready to buy from you all IOTA's you have (1:1),
if you can prove you have it (signed message from deposit address),
and if CfB want to change address (yours 2 mine) in genesis block.

I'm ready to offer you 10%more than you have paid

No sure I can participate in this. If IOTA is sold at least twice as that after the release then I'll feel myself like we robbed that guy.
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
February 05, 2016, 04:44:18 AM
A few more days doesn't matter.

Looks like I set wrong accents in that post. Few days won't affect the release, it's just a measure of how much work I'll spend, it shows that the change is simple and would be a nobrainer if not that consensus concern.
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
February 05, 2016, 04:37:39 AM
@CfB - you want community? you got it.

Now I'm much less upset, so many feedbacks.
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
February 05, 2016, 04:36:25 AM
Very well respected community members, and what of this:

ball park eta til you have something in the wild?

By Christmas.

The phrase "in the wild" means only one thing. Is IOTA in the wild? No.

And there are more.

Yes the project should be made as good as possible.
No, the release time dates were not accurate .

What can I say? Somebody screwed up I guess?

I can't recall what went wrong after the community had decided to go with a better front-end than my "50 shades of grey" version... Maybe absence of the front-end is the only thing that slowed down the beta version ("in the wild" part)?
legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1000
February 05, 2016, 03:54:26 AM
The results of voting seems:
~ 75% yes, take your time and go with balances
~ 20% go the most secure way - input/output
~ 5% no, release ASAP cause Christmas has passed
Good job, Thanks, it is clear now  Grin Grin
legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1000
February 05, 2016, 03:51:51 AM

Here's a suggestion.

STOP WHINING.

A few more days doesn't matter. If you can't deal with it leave. Go. No one is going to miss complainers. Come back when this is a 10+ million dollar project in a few weeks/months. Or don't come back at all. But just stop all the whining.

CFB asked the community for its opinion. Most said yes, ok. A few said no. But the few that said no are being loud and posting long blocks of texts, and are acting like babies that think if they scream they get their way. Doesn't work like that. Sorry. So go have a drink, go for a run, get a massage, or whatever calms you down and relax.
+1440 +1440
take your time  Wink
legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1096
February 05, 2016, 03:00:32 AM
People not only gave you half a million USD but also gave you shitloads of trust.
Trust in you, your team, your company, your product.

Can you not understand that that trust becomes a bit fragile when you fail to meet expections set by yourself?
 - You said IOTA was close to being lauched, now you ask how basic things should be implemented.
 - repeatedly postponing release dates.

Can you not understand that that trust becomes a bit fragile considering that the general management of this project is unprofessional?
 - I signed up for the email newsletter, never got an email
 - http://collect.iotatoken.com/ TO THIS DAY shows outdated information, you said you were going to change that multiple times.
 - I said this before - no streamlined way of communication - where can i find updates and information? here? ryver? twitter? email? outdated collect.iotatoken website? not even once updated iotatoken website?
 - David once said this is because it is better to have people seek information themselfes, I agree, but if you continue running this project this way people will just stop giving a shit.

How can you look at how the IOTA community is loosing trust and faith In you and not think "Well, thats a little bit our fault"

And then you dare to say things like

right now the level of involvement is pretty upsetting.

Try to take a wild guess as to why.

You should be happy the community has been so patient with you.

But hey, whatever, its not like you actually care about the community and IOTA beeing a great product

I'm just a hired coder in a company that created Iota.

If thats truly all you are then what happens after IOTA is released?
Will your poisition change from "lead dev" to "senior i dont give a shit anymore developer" ?
Thanks, tangleNinja, really, really well said.

As for balance vs. inputs I think inputs/outputs approach is more suitable for Internet-of-Things, and more robust in the sense of a bad woven tangle's threads.
legendary
Activity: 1344
Merit: 1000
February 05, 2016, 02:54:30 AM
Hey, guys and gals. I'd like to get your feedback on the following:

In it's current implementation Iota's ledger is based on inputs and outputs like Bitcoin. There is another way - balances of accounts like in Nxt and Ethereum.

Now I see that if Iota used the latter it would be more efficient because:
1. No need to send the change back to myself which makes the tangle smaller
2. A lot of dust inputs could be spent with a single payment and this would be more secure because every address reuse leaks the private key
3. A new address wouldn't be needed for every incoming payment (this would make acceptance of Iota donations simple, in the current design it's PITA for humans)
4. Off-tangle payments would become simpler
5. RAM requirement for full nodes would be relaxed

The only problem that might arise in balance-based Iota is worse consensus convergence, but after analyzing the issue I don't see what could break.

I'm thinking if it's worth to do a little redesign that could take few days of extra work...

As stake holder I vote for waiting and implementing the best from beginning.
From my experience its mostly not a good idea to start quick and dirty and try to fix it after release.
And in distributed systems where each confirmed transaction matters, its even more critical not to break the past!

Anyone who need a working client now can try to play with alpha release.
We talk about days or maybe a week!?
IOTA, please don't satisfy the folks who want to see iota on the exchanges as soon as possible for quick profits.
Please develop with respect to sustainability.


And what is the best from beginning balances or input/output ?
full member
Activity: 171
Merit: 100
February 05, 2016, 02:50:10 AM
Hey, guys and gals. I'd like to get your feedback on the following:

In it's current implementation Iota's ledger is based on inputs and outputs like Bitcoin. There is another way - balances of accounts like in Nxt and Ethereum.

Now I see that if Iota used the latter it would be more efficient because:
1. No need to send the change back to myself which makes the tangle smaller
2. A lot of dust inputs could be spent with a single payment and this would be more secure because every address reuse leaks the private key
3. A new address wouldn't be needed for every incoming payment (this would make acceptance of Iota donations simple, in the current design it's PITA for humans)
4. Off-tangle payments would become simpler
5. RAM requirement for full nodes would be relaxed

The only problem that might arise in balance-based Iota is worse consensus convergence, but after analyzing the issue I don't see what could break.

I'm thinking if it's worth to do a little redesign that could take few days of extra work...

As stake holder I vote for waiting and implementing the best from beginning.
From my experience its mostly not a good idea to start quick and dirty and try to fix it after release.
And in distributed systems where each confirmed transaction matters, its even more critical not to break the past!

Anyone who need a working client now can try to play with alpha release.
We talk about days or maybe a week!?
IOTA, please don't satisfy the folks who want to see iota on the exchanges as soon as possible for quick profits.
Please develop with respect to sustainability.

 




legendary
Activity: 2124
Merit: 1013
K-ing®
February 05, 2016, 02:48:45 AM
I edited my above post.
As far as Im concerned we do genesis now - that was the deal

we r already late and CfB has had enuff time - improvements come later

otherwise Im out

i'm ready to buy from you all IOTA's you have (1:1),
if you can prove you have it (signed message from deposit address),
and if CfB want to change address (yours 2 mine) in genesis block.

I'm ready to offer you 10%more than you have paid


legendary
Activity: 1344
Merit: 1000
February 05, 2016, 02:42:22 AM
The results of voting seems:
~ 75% yes, take your time and go with balances
~ 20% go the most secure way - input/output
~ 5% no, release ASAP cause Christmas has passed
full member
Activity: 304
Merit: 100
February 05, 2016, 12:47:27 AM
Can you explain the potential problem.  What do you mean by worse consensus convergence, in this case?

If a balance is 100 IOTA and there are two payments - for 70 and 80, then which one to accept as legit? With input/output system ambiguity is impossible.

1. The delays are bad.

2. Isn't the bolded portion above the most important? Can you say, "its impossible" the other way? So far you haven't.

3. Where is Iotatoken during all of this.

You are already pulling off a miracle if this works. Many doubt it's possible.

Proceed with the original plan you have had a year to think about.

This new path seems dangerous because this is a highly evolved approach to say the least. Last minute changes that are not needed for success is reckless when you are attempting something so difficult.

You only need to show this works, and the rest is history.

ChildHerald may want to sell, but he is correct about changing this last minute.

Unless there is a danger of Iota being broken, such a change isn't worth it.

Let's not get greedy now.

@rlh
Go with your gut


Here's a suggestion.

STOP WHINING.

A few more days doesn't matter. If you can't deal with it leave. Go. No one is going to miss complainers. Come back when this is a 10+ million dollar project in a few weeks/months. Or don't come back at all. But just stop all the whining.

CFB asked the community for its opinion. Most said yes, ok. A few said no. But the few that said no are being loud and posting long blocks of texts, and are acting like babies that think if they scream they get their way. Doesn't work like that. Sorry. So go have a drink, go for a run, get a massage, or whatever calms you down and relax.

Maybe some people are whining. That happens when there are delays. Its to be expected.

However. Other than stating my opinion that the delays are bad, and they are, thats not what Im worried about.

You see, you quoted me, when you made your post.

Understand, other than the fact that I dislike the negatives like tons of whining, and looking unprofessional, that delays bring, I could really care less if it takes awhile longer.

The problem is that we are not talking about taking our time here anyway.

CFB asked a question and I answered.

Its a bad idea IMO.

Read my post again and you will see that I am against a last minute change, and most likely the change itself unless CFB can say ambiguity is an impossibility

Smh
full member
Activity: 157
Merit: 100
February 05, 2016, 12:26:24 AM
Remember the early days of NXT on Bitcointalk? So many technical, complex issues discussed by the community and hardly anyone talking about price. It's an amazing piece of work. I thought IOTA would be like that, but a lot of people here are too interested in a quick ROI for having done nothing but participate in the sale.

I do remember, this is because of the way the devs decided to communicate with us, using closed community chat (Ryver), nothing I'm interested in.

I'm ready to help, to run multiple nodes, but I want publicly accessible information to development status, open discussion and signed releases, when this happens I will gladly participate.

I'm fine with postponing the release if it means that the platform will be better, anyone who ever developed something will understand that.
As for the decision how the accounts should work - I'd say go with what's more secure.

legendary
Activity: 2124
Merit: 1013
K-ing®
February 05, 2016, 12:12:23 AM
I am not qualified to weigh in on the technical side

My point exactly. Who among us is? Like maybe two guys. Ridiculous. This is utter nonsense.





Here:


ball park eta til you have something in the wild?

By Christmas.


Where did I go wrong?

 Angry


we have time till Christmas 25/12  or 7.1 Smiley
legendary
Activity: 2124
Merit: 1013
K-ing®
February 05, 2016, 12:06:42 AM
CfB do what you think is the best for IOTA,

like you always do Smiley
newbie
Activity: 20
Merit: 0
February 04, 2016, 11:44:56 PM
Everyone who said no, has zero knowledge technically what its about. Besides, all the no's are multi accounts of same guy.

Everything child_harold says makes you scratch your head and go huh? I won't be sad when he and his small stake (to him big stake) are sold.

Well to be fair all of us guys think our small stakes are bigger than they are.  Grin
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1070
February 04, 2016, 10:47:22 PM
Can you explain the potential problem.  What do you mean by worse consensus convergence, in this case?

If a balance is 100 IOTA and there are two payments - for 70 and 80, then which one to accept as legit? With input/output system ambiguity is impossible.

1. The delays are bad.

2. Isn't the bolded portion above the most important? Can you say, "its impossible" the other way? So far you haven't.

3. Where is Iotatoken during all of this.

You are already pulling off a miracle if this works. Many doubt it's possible.

Proceed with the original plan you have had a year to think about.

This new path seems dangerous because this is a highly evolved approach to say the least. Last minute changes that are not needed for success is reckless when you are attempting something so difficult.

You only need to show this works, and the rest is history.

ChildHerald may want to sell, but he is correct about changing this last minute.

Unless there is a danger of Iota being broken, such a change isn't worth it.

Let's not get greedy now.

@rlh
Go with your gut


Here's a suggestion.

STOP WHINING.

A few more days doesn't matter. If you can't deal with it leave. Go. No one is going to miss complainers. Come back when this is a 10+ million dollar project in a few weeks/months. Or don't come back at all. But just stop all the whining.

CFB asked the community for its opinion. Most said yes, ok. A few said no. But the few that said no are being loud and posting long blocks of texts, and are acting like babies that think if they scream they get their way. Doesn't work like that. Sorry. So go have a drink, go for a run, get a massage, or whatever calms you down and relax.
full member
Activity: 304
Merit: 100
February 04, 2016, 09:47:07 PM
Can you explain the potential problem.  What do you mean by worse consensus convergence, in this case?

If a balance is 100 IOTA and there are two payments - for 70 and 80, then which one to accept as legit? With input/output system ambiguity is impossible.

1. The delays are bad.

2. Isn't the bolded portion above the most important? Can you say, "its impossible" the other way? So far you haven't.

3. Where is Iotatoken during all of this.

You are already pulling off a miracle if this works. Many doubt it's possible.

Proceed with the original plan you have had a year to think about.

This new path seems dangerous because this is a highly evolved approach to say the least. Last minute changes that are not needed for success is reckless when you are attempting something so difficult.

You only need to show this works, and the rest is history.

ChildHerald may want to sell, but he is correct about changing this last minute.

Unless there is a danger of Iota being broken, such a change isn't worth it.

Let's not get greedy now.

@rlh
Go with your gut
full member
Activity: 175
Merit: 100
February 04, 2016, 09:37:24 PM
I am not qualified to weigh in on the technical side of this, but I will vote for a delay to optimize or enhance. Six months from now, no one will remember whether it was launched on time or with several days' or a week's delay.

Completely agree!
Big innovative projects will not be made all at once. In Ethereum it has, as it was written, and lasted more than 1 year, to the simple console was ready.

What was promised? So, now running the version. 0.3.0, later comes GUI, I have no problem with it. Incidentally, "golden rule" invest just so much what you can lose. And read please terms.
There are indeed massive amounts of fast pump'n'dump shit coins. Reputable projects therefore need time and energy.

Just Do it!

How long about the extra work it will take? Smiley

Several days, but they fit into beta testing period and won't delay the release. The question is about doing that last moment change or not.
If it's good for IOTA long term secure running,I did not see the reason why not do it.
 Smiley


+1
full member
Activity: 131
Merit: 100
February 04, 2016, 09:29:16 PM
otherwise Im out

yay! More IOTAs for the rest of us!
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