Topic: Is 1miau fit for DT? - page 4. (Read 3709 times)

There are always two to a discussion and in a forum can quickly turn into many, and there are usually two sides. Thats what happened in this thread: good vs bad?

That you are now defending him is a okay and now put yourselves in our position, we have been doing this for many years. All are welcome to discuss opinions and show your passion, but why didnt he call for help (except maybe from you). Why didnt he ask us? Why did he want to extortion and will manipulate us?

If he had honestly asked for help, I would have been one of the first to support him and I am sure that almost everyone else in the German local would have done the same. There is a great example of how we helped Real-Duke together. A lot can be done if we want to.

But I will fight for justice as best I can, Im not just doing it here with a few words, I doing it almost all my life and I hope I can do it until the end.

Ok, now I get it why you got mad, I never said you are lucky to be a victim as in you deserve it or deserve worse than that. No. First time I saw a tank shooting at civilian buildings, I realized rasputin has lost his mind and should go through a naked walk of shame.

---

But I never had any discussions with any of them, Now if we had old grudges, me and miau and I orchestrate a witch  hunt to get back at him, you could blame me, I never had any interactions with him, he started it.

And if he had removed his tag on me, then all his victims and future victims could never be truly free of his dictatorship and manipulation tactics.

You can't paint me as evil, anyways I don't know what left or right fried wings means and don't care, but if you want to discuss politics and know my opinions, I will give them to you, in P&S board, I doubt however you could digest them or even understand them. My political opinion is called "restart".

---

If 1miau DT supporters think that in time everything will cool down, especially after all the mockery and insults, think again.

I have been here for a year now, I didn't mess with anyone, they started it, if they wanted war, well I strive for it. I can take on all of you abusers, bring it on.

I meant this proposal more as a sign of goodwill from 1miau, not that these users don't deserve this kind of feedback. Maybe if he does this he has a slight chance to return to DT1, making his anti-scam trust entries more visible again.

(Edit: Alternative: Other DT1 members could "clone" 1miau's scam-related trust entries, so they stay visible.)

Trust in the decentralized way it's used here is a bit like a personal opinion, so I read it as "user X thinks that user Y is Z", not "user Y is Z". Post history of all users is publicly available too, and gives often some insights why these neutral trusts may have been sent. Everybody who does a significant business decision (e.g. trading significant amounts of coins with an user, accepting them into a campaign etc.) should check both.

And the shitposting issue is definitively one where I'm on 1miau's side. The forum is still a great place of debate about Bitcoin. But it has suffered a lot due to this issue, and I'm thankful for everybody willing to invest the time to fight it.

Indeed I don't see really a "victim" here. There were heated discussions and personal opinions left (as neutral trust entries). Things that happen on the internet every second. I do however acknowledge that 1miau does sometimes discuss in an aggressive way and even may behave unfairly (like in his attack here to mole0815), but who can say that he never did that? Those who really got engaged with him in these OT discussions often were not exactly Mother Theresa too - many of them have/had extreme right-wing opinions and/or adhere to conspiracy theories and were also quite aggressive in their discussion style too. In several cases I could perfectly understand why 1miau got angry. Not in all though, but people are different. (And yes, I've followed some of these discussions, mostly passively.)

@MinoRaiola: So you think that's only 1miau's fault that threads like those about Corona and the Ukraine war got closed? What about Blitzfontaene etc. (very aggressive German anti-vaxx user for those who don't know)? I think there were always two sides who contributed to this heated atmosphere. I think some of his attacks on people like you, mole0815 or thandie (or even me ) were not justified but probably written in anger due to other contributors the same day/week.

You broke silent? Great, you are unhappy about my opinion regarding 1miau and icopress who have both tagged people for political opinions? Great.

But did you use your DT tag to call me a scammer, liar and a troll? If you do that, we'd have the same issue.

You can open a topic on P&S to discuss politics, not using trust feedback like they do, but if you disagree with what I suggest and think it's OK to tag people for politics related stuff? Well we are here to understand that if everyone also agrees and thinks the same way.

Because you know, I might one day say hey instead of hello, and that could be percieved as a political disagreement  to warrant a negative trust.  We wanna prepare ourselves for such a community.

We wanna know where to draw a line, now we know, where your line is, you were silent and indifferent to miau abuses and DT manipulations because you didn't care, but now you care because I said something you didn't like.

Do I have a problem with that line? Of course I do, but as long as you don't base your reasons for trust feedback on that line, I don't care.

As I already said, I can't give a single sat for someone calling me a scammer and a liar.

I have only provided the requested/required evidence.

No more and no less.
The respective author is responsible for the rest of the statements made here.

I have never used these words in this way and never would... so I don't know why it is being presented in this way.

What is your alternative suggestion? No consequences for all these years? As we said, many people from the german board are no longer active because of him, so you don't care about these people?

And just because more and more people are coming forward doesn't mean it's a witch hunt. So you want people to not come forward and be quiet?

I don't think you have any bad intentions, but you're just trying to trivialize bad actions and defend a bad person who you believe is a good one (he is good to people who agree with him)

There were other people who had a different opinion about Corona or other political topics, including much more valuable persons like qwk, but we were able to talk and discuss objectively without him insulting me or others or threatening us with consequences. The alternative was possible but 1miau never wanted it. Only his opinion counts and every other opinion must be destroyed - that is his wish.

I can not remain silent, so i have to do this single trollfeed, which I already regret.

It couldn't be more personal, just read the title.
It is shameful and inexcusable how 1miau is treated here in this personal bs crusade, and this is not the first attempt. really folks Hitler comparisons and telling icopress to be lucky of being victim of war?  and saying 1miau is a parasite? who is being political and insulting?

@mole0815 you now i respect you and the way you do your chosen work here, but this time, this is just wrong to defame something in public in such a way, even if 1miau should think again about some of it's decisions...

I was in a fence to think it was a personal problem between you two but when I was seeing more cases which were coming from other members then I had to look deeper.

Feedback and DT inclusion/exclusion are not meant to use for agreement and disagreement. When one is using it for disagreement then it automatically risk the free speech. Other side will be always worried for their forum reputation [feedback page and DT voting status] before making a post against someone who do not share the same view [political or even general].

Good thing he found me, otherwise he was laughing at his victims while posting, getting merits, getting paid. He thought of me as a doormat, "oh look there is digaran, he just said something I dislike, let me introduce my boots to his face, nobody cares, after all HE ALREADY got several tags" he mistook a land mine with a doormat.

Well, he was wrong, dictators are always wrong, and they run into hiding when they are defeated, hitler is the most infamous example.
...........
His neutral feedback is a subtle extortion method, it says "I'm in charge, watch your tone or else...."

---

@icopress, you are lucky you are a victim of an unjust war along with your nation, otherwise I would have shown you "admin's quote, where he says don't tag people for their ideas and political opinions or their opinions in general", since you want to be a soldier and adhere to the commands of your commander.


"Friends", look here :

What am I doing, of course you agree with this parasite, I meant the other friends.

---

Point being, nobody needs to be told what to do, if 1miau or anyone wants to do as they please, great, but do it as a normal member, not when you are on DT, because then we all know nobody gives a single sat about your opinions.

I am definitely not in favour of this, then we would be doing the same thing and making a personal attack on another member. I replied to bullrun's post that it is the same for me and for me the matter is settled.


That's exactly how it is and it would be a shame if he resigned completely, meow also had expertise in Bitcoin and blockchain but he couldn't stop insisting on his "right" opinion for himself personally since Corona and wanted to discredit members who thought differently in a free opinion forum.


For me, the topic was already closed if I was not marked here, and after reading bullrun's post I only commented that it was the same for me. The rest is history for me, but you can still point out verbal outbursts and untruths in the Trust posts.  

I gladly agree with some of the previous speakers and appreciate the majority of 1miau's contributions.
Top-notch expertise, but unfortunately overshoots the mark or exaggerates on topics such as corona, war and, for example, denglish - and does so repeatedly and deliberately!

And no, I don't want to get rid of 1miau, nor do I want to scare him off or pillory him. For me, this is about some of the points raised in the OP and that needs to be clarified in the long term.
Otherwise all the effort here (and in the past) would have been in vain and we would all like to have a proper basis for our shared hobby (BTC) in the future.

Unfortunately, the thread has become very confusing and if you haven't followed it from the beginning, it's also difficult to keep an overview.
It would certainly help if mikeywith created an overview (as already started here) as briefly and concisely but as complete as possible (and linked in the OP) so that the information stays together.

For me, bitcointalk stands for freedom of expression/speech.
It would be against it if we tolerate censoring different opinions.
Whether by feedback, trust, "report to moderator", subliminally wrapped up in other topics or addressed openly and directly.

THAT is the issue. And if all this had not happened in the small German-speaking area but in a more prominent place in the forum, the issue would have been clarified X months (even years) ago, but it has now taken a little longer for it to be addressed here.
It doesn't only concern 1miau but in this thread it does and therefore it almost looks like a witch hunt - but in my opinion it shouldn't become one.

Whether trust, neutral or distrust is of course up to you.
It needs to be clarified in the long term and I think 1miau will probably wait for this decision before he speaks up again.

Source: https://www.internet-abc.de/kinder/lexikon/f/forum/

Different opinions and views are part and parcel of a discussion.
If you try to prevent that in any way whatsoever, that's not okay! That's the point!

This witch hunt would never exist if he hadnt done so many things wrong in the last 3 years. What you are reading here is perhaps only a small part of what really happened and it is very important that this is finally said and that it stops. The German board has tried it over the last years, it didnt help, it got worse. Some users may no longer be here because of him, that is not okay and it has to stop. So much time and anger has grown on him, he didnt understand and now has to deal with it. Karma will fix it - this is how it works.

I also remember a time before Corona, it was much better. Only he himself can decide whether it will be like this again.

---

You probably know him from a time before Corona and it was valuable to have such users in a forum with freedom of expression. But you also know that it has been unpleasant in recent years and he has repeatedly attacked the community.

3 years the German part of the forum has put up with his actions and I had predicted what is happening now. Good that you want to defend him, but the evidence is extreme and there is still a lot missing - we havent seen it all.

Will you be fine with a neutral feedback on your profile that says " d5000 is a shit poster, low value member who supports x country" , based on your logic -- that should be fine, or am i missing something? I could be wrong, but i think anyone looking at such feedback will think of and treat you differently with and without such feedback, i find it hard to believe that just because the text is in gray/black instead of red -- it means it has no effect.

Also if someone truly thinks it has no effect , i.e it is 100% useless , why waste time using it? The fact that people use it -- they know for sure it would be seen, if it can be seen it will always have an impact regadless of the text color or the naming.

 
Do you think that there are no victims here at all? All are made up stories and fake PMs trying to hurt 1miau for no valid reason?
Or, are you saying that some of them are but not all?


Good to see you finally took the right action, and came to see that this was not a personal issue between him and I, tho I find it amusing how he managed to convince / manipulate many readers into thinking that this is a personal fight between 1miau and mikeywith and not 1miau abuse.

some were even asking to shake hands and move on, i think his tactic was to attack me, this way things would seem like "personal", and then get a few fellow DT friends to come here and comment about how great of a DT user he is " you can see them in the comments", this way any one reading this mess would think oh, some DT folks here support 1miau, this is a personal issue between the two of them, no abuse, lets move on.

So ya it takes courage and desire to seek the truth, otherwise someone could possibly be manipulated by 1miau mind games if they are not paying enough attention.


 

The OP may have been right about some things, but now it has turned into a witch hunt as I clearly see that all 1miau’s ill-wishers have run into this thread and are trying to scream as loudly as possible. If 1miau leaves the forum it will be a big loss for the forum (btw, he told me that he is leaving the campaign).


Yes, but it doesn't matter since he wasn't the first to give these two users negative feedback. In addition, I am deeply convinced that if we, as a self-sufficient community, adhere to the views of 1 person, then nothing good will end. I wouldn't want this place to turn into a marginal cesspool.

I didn't want to add more to this drama, but this sentence deserves a comment:

I've searched through 1miau's (quite numerous) negative trust entries to other forum members and I saw only two which are not related to scams or other Bitcoin-related illegal/questionable activity. One of them is a very recent one to digaran, probably related to this thread (and thus perhaps could be reverted if they calm down both), and the other one went to Snork1979 and is actually the only one caused by a disagreement over (RL) politics, as they accused Snork1979 of Putin propaganda (this case was already discussed here earlier).

There is some neutral feedback that could be questionable but neutral feedback does generally not have negative consequences for these users, neither has adding a ~ to their username in the trust network. So in general, while I repeat that I myself would not use the trust mechanism in this way, I don't see major abuses.

Perhaps 1miau could take back these two negative trust entries (even if I probably agree with them with their opinion about Snork1979 but I don't speak Russian) and convert them to neutral, and delete some entries in this thread written probably in anger (for example the unexplainably harsh attack on mole0815). Not much really questionable behaviour would be left. As I already said I agree generally with their quite harsh-looking, but often justified actions against low-quality posting.

1miau might be taking a break as suggested earlier and is letting people read and make a decision. Let's say many people dislike the behavior he has been accused of, that doesn't mean he would need to leave the forum at all. He just needs to change the way he interacts in certain instances. Not use red trust as a tool. Nothing more. You're only kicked out of DT forever if you are constantly leaving bad feedbacks and unwilling to change. We are all learning daily, if you aren't you prob aren't trying to.

It might be sad for you or people who enjoyed their posts, but it is definitely not sad for the users who have been attacked by 1miau, who have been dragged into days and days of battling with his drama that could not be considered rational discussion, or fair debate. 1miau will crop content of quotes so that he can respond inappropriately and confuse the reader, 1miau will abuse and insult and then complain when others retaliate, 1miau will add negative labels that apply more to them than to anyone else - and get away with it all.

Imagine how many good members have left, stopped posting or worse, got inappropriate negative trust feedback because of 1miau's tirades, or how many have received negative labels that maybe they did not actually deserve? Everyone is capable of being a high quality member...but a member who disrupts community participation is a member who will not be missed...and relating to this, if 1miau won this debate and mikeywith was discredited or left because of the outcome, would that be a better or worse outcome? Go and look at 1miau vs mikeywith and if we are really talking about true quality and value, mikeywith wins hands down. I'd take a mikeywith over a 1miau every day of the week and a rational community focused on quality, value and less conflict would too in my opinion.

To address what you have said, I doubt 1miau is gone. I am sure they will do or say something soon...it's only been a couple of days. What's more likely is 1miau is overwhelmed with the feeling of being in the wrong, unsupported and speechless for the first time.

I've only now read about this issue (I'm not very active in the meta boards and Reputation) and don't want to add unnecessary content, but it's possible the forum has lost 1miau (they locked several threads with competitions and cancelled them, see this, this and this one).

In my opinion it would be a very sad outcome if 1miau really left, and really hope they can calm down a bit, maybe take a time to relax and then come back, and their "adversaries" in this dispute think a bit about their actions as well. I think 1miau are an excellent high-quality post author and I support their activities against shitposting as well. However I agree with some of you that they may get easily into heated discussions and "shoot over the target" sometimes. And while I agree that everybody can handle their trust settings like they please, I think it should not be used to pressure others. However, some of 1miau's adversaries have shown very questionable stances (radical right-wing in most cases) in some off-topic threads, so I can understand 1miau's anger a bit.

I always wonder when I see such meta problems deriving in such drama but whatever. Let's talk more about Bitcoin instead

Is the telegram account of miau publicly posted by himself somewhere? Is his number known to anyone?
No personal information should be revealed, we are not in a position  to do that, so if anyone has a plan like that, refrain from doing it, unless it involves a crime, which should be dealt with by local authorities.

---

I might be wrong, but is there a DT rule in place to take effect if majority decides not to take action due to involvement of an annoying troll in a case? I don't know why 1miau trust buds are excluding me instead of him, I hope it's not a mental problem, but they seem to be very angry with me, like I kicked their calm and undisturbed nest or something.

Do they even realize people are watching, or maybe they don't take me seriously NOT to mention all the victims of miau and now Gazeta's abusive behaviour + using trust system to censor political opinions.

Do you want to know the reason? Too much freedom for abusers, and lack of oversight.

But we need to give it time, so they can all make up their minds.

---

@afraid-of-Injustice, with patience you can move mountains, good thing he is not doing any thing right now.
To all others, don't be afraid, express your reasonable and civilized opinions without crossing any lines, if anyone harassed you or threatened you to shut you up, report in reputation board.  The moment you back down, is the moment of their victory.

---

I got work to do, bye.

One of my friends' accounts was tagged as a "shitposter" by 1miau. I contacted 1miau on Telegram to inquire about the reason for his feedback and if it could be removed. 1miau stated that he would consider removing it if my friend refrained from discussing the Ukraine war and acknowledged that he was mistaken in his politically neutral stance. I conveyed this to my friend, who agreed, ceasing to post on the political board after 1miau removed the feedback.

My friend remains apprehensive, and when I asked if I could post a screenshot of the conversations with 1miau on Telegram, he declined. However, I suggested that I present it to the administrator or a moderator, or any DT member.


As for me, I created this new account specifically to remain anonymous, ensuring that this oppressive DT member cannot track me or the others who will follow his approach. But I can send the proof in a private message using my original account for a DT member on the forum who does not have 1miau in his trust list.