Topic: Is 1miau fit for DT? - page 10. (Read 3813 times)

Here is a small collection of 1miau sent feedback





Some of his "political related" feedback is actually negative.

Also, I was contacted by someone who is also a victim of 1miau's DT punishment, with a clear message of 1miau's threatening him with his DT power purely for political disagreement, unfortunately, that person is afraid of 1miau punishment and asked me not to reveal his name in public, I am willing to send the conversation via PM to trusted DT members so they can review it.

What you are calling "political reasons" is much broader like already explained by examplens. The way of taking criticism, reacting to certain comments, being very "aggressive" to push a viewpoint, admitting mistakes etc.. If someone thinks at the same time that my way of discussing is too weak / to harsh / too whatever and they distrust me, I would have to live with that, no matter if I think this is justified or not. Of course, I could ask a question, why they did so but of course I wouldn't do that via big hammer topic in reputation.
Trust list doesn't mean trust feedback, as trust list directly means "I trust this member's judgement".  
It's even common that people get a trust list entry basically for nothing.
Or if someone just doesn't like me after a normal discussion (not politics related), they can distrust me as well.
There are simply so many reasons.
We had a certain member who was advertising gambling in his signature, while saying that gambling would be "unethical" but still, he participated in a paid gambling sig campaign.
We can distrust members who are shilling crap because we believe that they could push this crap via DT position, doesn't matter if it's a shitcoin or a shady service etc.
As already said in the topic there have even been negative trusts (yes, that's feedback) for shilling CSW and BSV.
Which can also be legitimate, DT can sort this out.
And if someone disagrees to someone's judgement, everyone has a possibility to add someone to their distrust list.

Regarding the negative feedback, which I've sent to digaran, that's quite simple: if there's no reason to leave a feedback or the feedback is simply a false claim, then, the feedback is not appropriate. But for this case, there have been 4 red tags already. So, if that would be trust abuse, there would be 5 people abusing trust.
For trust entries, DT trust feedback standards apply accordingly.  
As always, we have to review the context.

Regarding the removed positive feedback:
I don't owe anyone any positive trust feedback and I'm free to remove them any time. If someone disagrees with me, that I'm withdrawing my (positive or negative) trust feedbacks too often, there's a simple solution as well = anyone can distrust me.
Nowadays, nice-guy positive trust is much more of an issue, still many people don't care.

But there are no rules at all about withdrawing feedbacks.
Maybe we can define some but I think this is completely fine how it is currently as there's absolutely no issue with it. As far as I remember that happens quite often and I've also withdrawn my positive feedback on Ratimov just recently after what happened.

What about the other points? Like leaving a negative feedback of removing a positive feedback for political reasons?

Everything is a personal opinion of someone's view, if someone gives you a negative feedback saying "you are a scammer" it is their personal opinion too, which they are entitled to, are you not going to demand the removal of that tag or the person behind it?

If everything is "personal opinion" then there is no need for a default trust list, we should let everyone express thier personal opinion without any community consensus.

From everyone else, this seems like an unnecessary and uninteresting discussion. Both of you mostly repeat the same thing and do not deviate from your positions.


You might not like it, but...
Adding someone to the distrust list is not a "use of the trust system against someone". It's a matter of personal opinion about someone's views.

Any discussion, where we present our personal views, affects what judgment other users will have about us. Even if two users have the same attitude towards something, that does not necessarily mean that they should be added to the trust list. Sometimes it is enough to see someone's way of expression, regardless of the topic being discussed.
A political discussion will show someone's character more clearly than, for example, a discussion about which miner is more efficient. Also, some users avoid participating in political discussions, even if they have something good to say. And that ignoring gives some picture of these users.

In the end, we mostly don't know each other here personally and we make our judgments about others based on what is presented or written here.

Yes, very important part. We have to be careful which way we are taking. That's what LoyceV described as well. There are so many disagreements on the forum, so much of it related to DT but in the end we have to ask a question: are we here to post / read content about Bitcoin, about the forum community like the upcoming Bitcointalk Awards or do we want to waste our lifetime with fighting each other?
I'm in favor of option 1. 


And it's a waste of our lifetime. We could do so many positive things instead of fighting each other.
There are so many downsides with fighting while little to nothing to gain.
In Bitcoin speculation terms, we would say "It's not profitable at all", like a shitcoin. 


Well written post, where I can agree 100%. 

Yeah, it's always better to find a peaceful solution to resolve any conflicts that take place because of the political matters. It's a worse thing to increase the intensity of the fire by pouring oil into it because that will increase the differences between two people and can create further conflicts. It's always better to pour water to calm down the fire and that's the way we all should incorporate. It's not hard to create differences between two people or increase the intensity of differences by shaping your words but it's quite difficult to have a solution of the conflicts that are taking place between two people.

Our forum is one of the best places in the world and we as members of the forum should try our best to contribute to the forum as much as we can. Sometimes we don't agree with the opinions of other members but if their opinions can be helpful in a way or other then we should either support those opinions or keep silence in order to avoid provoking of any conflicts because if we don't like someone's opinion it doesn't mean that their opinions are incorrect. However, if we continue to have arguments then that may be the cause of conflicts and that's not good for our own mental health and for the peacefulness of the forum.

We all should be concerned about the future of Bitcoin and it's growth and I believe that if Bitcoin grows then at least some of the financial problems of the globe will be solved and that would contribute to the reduction of war to some extent. It's not hard to start a war but it's quite hard to start a peaceful initiative. We can only hope for peaceful and happy future of us and all human beings but unfortunately we can't change the mindsets that are mostly there to cause troubles and nothing else. I believe that the issue between you guys isn't personal and that's why I think you both can easily solve such differences in simple PM's and that will be better than continuing this thread. I hope that soon we may come up with a solution that will be satisfactory for both of you guys. 

As far as I can remember I've not given you a negative trust.
And I'm allowed to add you my distrust list because of our harsh disagreement in P&S board, what changed my ability to trust your judgement. That's not a "punishment", that's simply a sign of disapproval of judgement. I wasn't planning to have you on my distrust list until the end of all days.
Because time is an important factor and possibly, this can be settled over time. But this remains to be seen after what happened the past days.

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These lines I can (mostly  ) agree to. Sometimes discussions can be heated. And to a certain degree this is also part of DT somehow, if not, that wouldn't be DT. 
As you've said there, it's important to remember that these endless escalations are not helpful for anyone.
Despite being extremely disappointed what happened the past days, I believe this is the right call to make.
We can disagree, we can fight but after all we have to remember that we are here on BITCOINtalk.

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I've just started the topic because at the time, when I've created it, this particular message got lost in the drama in your topic very quickly.
But I can lock this topic if you want. 

The above wall of text is full of off-topic P&S drama. I am not going to entertain you anymore.

For those coming late, here is a summary.

1miau uses the trust system as a weapon to punish members who have different points of view related to politics, if you happen to post a different point of view than his, he would

- Remove positive feedback if any (happened and he did not deny it)
- Give you a negative tag for something else that he would otherwise ignore if you did not have a different political opinion (happened and he did not deny it)
- Add you to his exclusion list for saying something in P&S that he does not like (he did that to me, and recently we came to know that he did the same to mindrust)

Furthermore, if you happen to disagree with him, expect some mean insults in public, and if you ignore them -- more would come to your PM (happened to me and he did not deny it)

Also, I appreciate everyone's opinion calling for "peace", unfortunately, I am not at war with 1miau, he still thinks it's perfectly fine to do everything he did, and instead of admitting that he shouldn't be using the trust system for political reasons, he keeps attacking me, as if that would somehow make him look better.

If the community thinks it's perfectly fine to use the trust system for politics-related stuff, I will respect that and move on.



By "peacefully" do you mean, removing positive feedback, giving neg feedback, and trust list exclusion?

if you want to stop the drama, stop attacking me, I said what I have to say and you presented your case, let's both stop posting unless a question is directed to one of us, otherwise, you keep quoting my posts and I keep quoting yours which leads nowhere, you are just making it hard for the readers to follow the topic, which is probably what you want to achieve after all, if you are so confident in yourself, stop drilling the thread, I only posted once in your thread "which you created to attack me instead of defending yourself".

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TL;DR for everyone else:

Do you think it's fine to use the trust system against others for political disagreements?

+1
Topics in Reputation can get quite heated and that's part of the game but as you've said, it's always important to find a peaceful solution, to stop name-calling, to stop pouring oil in the fire.
That's what a good DT member should do and advocate for. After all, this forum is called Bitcointalk, not P&S talk.
Many members have stated the opinion here how important it is to remember that. 
We won't drink a beer together but at least, we can peacefully co-exist in the forum. 

After reading the whole thread and the replies in it I must say that we should stop the debate here because it won't be helpful at all and if this conversation continues then it will be another topic of the P&S, and that's not going to be a good thing for the reputation board. I respect @1miau and @mikeywith as both of them are among the reputed members of the forum who have been contributing good stuff to the forum, and that's why taking favor of one party while opposing other is not going to be any helpful.

I'm not someone highly interested into politics because I believe that politics can create differences between us as humans and we may hate our brother just because of the politics and ideologies. We should think more about the progress of the humanity and human civilization rather than taking part in political conflicts which aren't going to be resolved any sooner because if they get resolved then who will purchase the war weapons which are meant to be used during the conflicts.

I don't really read news a lot because it will be very hard for me to see someone suffering and I'm the one who can't do anything to relieve someone's sufferings. Although, I can't do any thing individually to help those who suffer from the conflicts of others but if I see those sufferings then as a human I can feel their pain, but unfortunately I can't relieve their pain and suffering. Here in this forum we all are supposed to be here to help and support the Bitcoin project and we all should keep our personal and political debates aside and try our best to contribute as much for the Bitcoin community and for this amazing forum as we possibly can. I won't be saying more words because I'm quite sure that someone who get hurt from my words so I'm just requesting you guys to resolve the political issues and don't let those issues ruin your forum activities.

You are the one lying here by cutting out the fact that the talk is about our discussion in P&S, here's the uncensored quote:

The ugly things you accused me back then (and you still do it today), that I would deny dead children in Gaza is simply disgusting and reason alone to distrust you if you think it’s ok to switch my words like that and you even show no guilt at all, when I’m exposing this.
The community has tried here to start a level-headed discussion, which is a reasonable approach in my opinion, that's why I've agreed to LoyceV.

But the only thing you are able to is to repeat the same bullshit again and again because you are running out of arguments.
You are obsessed with it and you are simply too radicalized to notice this.
As said before, I’ve got accused 2 years ago in the German section, that I would be anti-Isreal after I've critized the Israeli settlers in the west bank.
Now, I'm getting accused that I would be anti-Palestine for criticizing Hamas.

This is not helpful for anyone.

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It's not possible to have a reasonable discussion with you.
Simple as that.

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The issue was settled after 2 days as I believed it would be best to part ways and of course, I took my conclusions. Getting my words twisted back and fort, getting tons of stupid accusations and name-calling from your radicalized posts, your spot on my distrust list was well deserved and will be well deserved further because I'm not re-evaluating it for the time being due to your actions over the last days.  
I'm done with your nonsense.
But looks like you are still mad.  

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You clearly haven't read my post.  

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A step further, that you will grow a thicker skin and don't call it abuse when you get on my distrust list after your bullshit performance in P&S. At least we know now that you would resort to disgusting lies against me and word twisting any time again. That's not someone I want to remove from my distrust list any time soon.


Then, you should stop to twist my words and stop writing things I've never said.


I can collect all of your childish missteps and present them on a new topic in Reputation, how about that?
Would be very helpful for both of us and more unnecessary drama or are you planning to do this:


I'm not in favor of that, I'm in favor of this:



Again something of the sort "might", "possibly", "I have the feeling" = unproven speculations!
Don't you believe in people to settle things peacefully? Or are you just trying to keep the hate going, while everyone is calling for a peaceful solution?
It's a very important point of DT and part of growing a thicker skin.

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Wow, thanks for confirming that you are just trying to silence me with the big hammer instead of any other civil solution.  

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But be careful that it's not coming back to you because your posts are increasingly looking very desperate that you won't reach your "goal" to leave any damage against me and this might not be a very good look for you especially due to the fact, that your arguments are very weak.
Should everyone create a thread about the same issue, when someone has some beef on the forum, Reputation would be a clown show.

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I will continue to disprove your reaction in our P&S discussion.
You think that my reaction is not appropriate and a "punishment" for you.  
I don't have any reason to remove you from my distrust list but I will have to accept, that you don't agree to that.
You can continue to be mad at me (if you like so) but you'll have to accept that any unproven accusation does not help.

We won't come together here but we can try.
The community would like that we can try.
So we can try to agree to disagree. Enough wasted internet space...

Lying again 1miau? You excluded me long before I started this topic, the exclusion happened because you disagreed with my point of view on a very specific political war.


Lol, how am I radicalized, did I insult you? PM you to insult you further? remove you from my trust list? remove my positive feedback and/or left you a negative rating because you disagreed with me? I did not do any of those things, you did, so guess who is radical here?



I thought the same after 10 mins discussion on P&S I thought what happens in P&S stays in P&S, but you had to continue your insults via PM, and did all the trust system related stuff, you had no plans of moving on before you had punished everyone who did not agree with you.


Correct, everyone can see that you have been doing this shit since 2022, anyone who disagree with you on P&S, ends up with either (negative feedback, a removal of positive feedback or exclusion from trust list).




hmm, I intentionally put the "accusations" in numbered points, which one of them is misleading?


a step further to what exactly? do you promise that you will grow up and stop abusing the trust system by punishing everyone who disagrees with your rant? if you do, I will lock the thread, but while you are still attacking me to discredit the facts I posted about you -- you don't seem to be looking for a solution, you are looking for this to end as if nothing has ever happened.



Nobody gives a shit about what you think about the conflict, it's up to you to say and do whatever you want about it, it's a free forum, just keep this out of the trust system and nobody would accuse you of anything again.


Lol, so you expect a 70-year old conflict to have a happy ending when you can't stand 10 mins debating about it behind the screen? I really want to know, if you had more tools to use against me and those who disagreed with you, something like a death note of some kind, would you have written our names in it?



I really want to believe that you are honest about this, but I have a strong feeling you are saying this now because things look bad for you, you can't stick to your theory of "given that you disagree with my political views, I will have to exclude you and cause you whatever damage possible".

But hey, I don't care if you are honest or just afraid, as long as you stop abusing the trust system -- I think the problem is solved, let's hope no more victims of yours show up here so the topic will fade and die.


I think you said this like 5 times already, and you know it's not true if I wanted to solve the exclusion, I would have PMed you and settled the matter with you, and I would not have asked theymos to blacklist me from DT1 which I was in probably long before you learned how to create your trust list.

This has nothing to do with the exclusion otherwise I would have complained about everyone else who has me in their exclusions
This has nothing to do with you having a different political opinion because I posted on P&S and had far more "heated" discussions and never once complained about

This has everything to do with you using the trust system to punish people who don't share the same political opinions as you, so this conflict between us won't end with you removing me from your exclusion, it won't end by saying you want to end it and have a fresh start, it will only end when you stop punishing other people for not sucking up to your views.

I'm two years younger than you.

Let DT and admins (seriously, how delusional are you?) decide that and no, I didn't "punish" anyone but if you would like to twist it like that, mikeywith is trying to "punish" me because I dared to exclude him from my trust list because I disapprove that I got bombarded with lies and misleading accusations when we had our disagreement.

However, I believe with trolls like you, a debate is like playing chess with a pidgeon. No matter how many valid arguments we will bring up, the pidgeon will jump on the chess board and ruin everything...

1miau, seriously how old are you? This has nothing to do with your political opinion if you even know what that is, the problem is the precedent such actions set as a normal behaviour where as I said before, nobody would bother to even participate in political discussions whatsoever. So you are either mature enough to realize that, or DTs plus admin get involved, because I'm pretty sure the administration is against using trust feedback/list to punish people for their ideas and opinions.

When other DTs pull their head out of the sands and judge this with no bias, they will come to the same conclusions.

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To change the mood a bit. Here is a not funny joke.
Do you know what does the food sound in China? miau.

I'd suggest DT1 cage fight. Losers get blacklisted. I think that would be more fair than the lottery.

I thought after some reasonable community thoughts, we would be able to get a meaningful discussion and solution but well...  

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I wouldn't care less. Feel free to do it if you feel better after it.

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The details are not irrelevant at all as your post here is a great example what lead to your exclusion of my trust list.
It's not possible to have a resonable debate with you because you are completely radicalized on this issue. After 3 weeks, you are still having a serious issue against me, while I thought the issue was settled and we would move on.
Your post here once again is a great example how you are name-calling me, how you are trying to twist my words, how your emotions took over any reasonable thought and most importantly, how you keep lying about things I've never said.
Yes, I distrust such a behaviour.
Yes, you don't need to agree.
Yes, you will end up on my distrust list for that. You can complain all day long about me but luckily, everyone can see now that you are the issue after many people here were up for a reasonable debate but you came up with lies and unproven accusations again.

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I'm only seeing one child here, where any reasonable debate is impossible because your entire statements are driven by emotion to bring up hate and misleading accusations against me.

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After reading your hateful comment against me, while we were already a step further with examplens and LoyceV, there's no doubt that you are the one, who's acting emotional and without any possibility to reason with. Sometimes it's very helpful to read your comments again and think twice if it's not better to add a bit less hate and accusations.  


Once again, these lies coming from you are disgusting but that's something I already know from you and that's why you are on my distrust list.
Your accusation is just untrue, I've never done this, I've even said that:


Still, I'm getting misleading accusations left and right from mikeywith.

2 years ago, in our German section, some people accused me that I would be anti-Isreal after I've critized the isreaeli settlers in the west bank.
Now, I'm getting accused that I would be anti-Palestine for criticizing Hamas. With blunt lies, of course.

Should I invite these people here that both of you will have a clash, while we are watching with popcorn?  

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If any, Royse777 is right. The situation there is completely messed up and as most people, I would be happy if Palestinians and Israelis would peacefully co-exist.

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The whole accusations of this topic are a nothingburger. If any, the topic shows very well how impossible it is to reason with mikeywith after the issue was almost settled.
But hey, now we know why I've put mikeywith on my distrust list and everyone can understand my move.  

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Fair point, I've changed that as I believe a reasonable debate is possible with you. Sometimes, it's better to move on and sort it out peacefully.  

+1

9/11 was an inside job and Putin is winning. Nobody needs to be upset. Let's get a beer and stop talking politics. There is enough beer for everyone in the world. Fuck politics.

This is a voice of reason. (royse777)

Most info we see is shaded lies designed to tear us apart. So that the puppet masters can get their way.

My business partner Loves Donald Trump and hates Joe Biden anyone that gets in that box of beliefs has fallen victim to brainwashing.
If my business partner loved Joe Biden and hated Donald Trump they have fallen victim to brainwashing.

Same goes Israel and Gaza the conflict is designed to sell weapons and keep the military industrial complex alive and well.

mikeywith has been a level head good guy with me.
I don't know 1miau very well.
I will tell them both
To fight with passion for either side means you are both feeding the military - industrial complex. And rich fucks are making money off your passion.

I watched Vietnam
I watched lots of conflicts.
1967 six day war.
Iranian Hostage conflict
Desert Storm
World Trade Center. in which I lost a fire fighter cousin and my wife was working blocks from the WTC when the planes hit.
Afghanistan
Ukraine vs Russia
Gaza vs Israel


and in all the cases above weapons builders made money.


All of you watch this movie

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_of_War

and understand if you make a stand and take a side you feed into the war monster.


Believe me it is not easy to resist.

I have a good Russian friend
My therapist is Ukraine descent with relatives still there.

I know these 2 for close to 20 and 30 years.

Both think their former countries are correct.

Both are well educated and intelligent.

I can tell you they are falling victims to war-monger puppet masters.

I told both of them that and intellectually they get it but emotions run deep and they both struggle.

Which is how I sometimes feel about the World Trade Center. I want to hurt and kill over it. I don't as I realize 66 years down maybe 10-30 years left so I am not feeding into the war machine anymore.

I am mining for BTC + LTC + DOGE instead  

Hmmm, I see, so this an old habit then, naughty 1miau managed to hide his dirty games all this long.

It would be interesting to see all the people he included/excluded solely for political disagreement.

Of course, get ready for his reply, he will

1- make it seem like you are just upset because of the exclusion itself
2- Some other meaningless bullshit on why he excluded you right after your political statement.

Yep, I stopped talking politics long time ago because of a similar reason too. Not that I am afraid of getting distrusted by the Zelensky gang but it is an unproductive discussion which goes nowhere.