Is Avalon mining with customer hardware? Answer is here. - page 19.

k9quaint

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Quote from: jerfelix on June 17, 2013, 12:56:15 PM

Quote from: auto2nr1 on June 17, 2013, 12:54:06 PM

I feel that they should be mining on the testnet if they were going to be mining for an extended period of time. If they were going to be mining on the mainnet to do testing it should be no more than 24-48 hours at most. After the short test period as long as the unit did not experience any issues it should be shipped out immediately. It is unfortunate that they are mining and profiting off the customers units that have been crowd funded. Undecided

Did you do the math?

If they have 1200 units in batch 2 and 3, and they are currently generating about 3 BTC per day (and more back in April), how many Bitcoins would have been generated with a 24-48 hour burn-in test?

Hint: A lot more than the 716 BTC mentioned here!

This is the issue with pre-ordering and paying full price up front. It is a crap shoot.
Until there are companies that can deliver existing inventory at the drop of a hat, there is nothing to hold these ASIC companies honest.
At least ASICMiner is up front about it. Tongue

infested999

hero member

Activity: 854

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..

Loredo

full member

Activity: 238

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Quote from: jspielberg on June 17, 2013, 09:05:42 AM

Here is another thread discussing the 3.5TH/s enigma on eligius a few weeks back.

So is that most likely the smoking gun? Let's do some back-of-envelope here.

Say the network was running 100 Thps at that time, and somebody came with 3.5 Thps. Not counting the bonus from front-running the difficulty, they'd be looking at around 3600 * 3.5% = 126 BTC per day from that.

So the 700 BTC being talked about is maybe 5 days of such shenanigans? I'm not a YiFu fan boy, but somehow that seems too small and one-off for him to mandate.

Xialla

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Activity: 1036

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/dev/null

Quote from: jerfelix on June 17, 2013, 12:56:15 PM

Quote from: auto2nr1 on June 17, 2013, 12:54:06 PM

I feel that they should be mining on the testnet if they were going to be mining for an extended period of time. If they were going to be mining on the mainnet to do testing it should be no more than 24-48 hours at most. After the short test period as long as the unit did not experience any issues it should be shipped out immediately. It is unfortunate that they are mining and profiting off the customers units that have been crowd funded. Undecided

Did you do the math?

If they have 1200 units in batch 2 and 3, and they are currently generating about 3 BTC per day (and more back in April), how many Bitcoins would have been generated with a 24-48 hour burn-in test?

Hint: A lot more than the 716 BTC mentioned here!

if they got it, why all guys who ordered them not yet received them?.) and yes, they should use more addresses/accounts/pools etc..

ProfMac

legendary

Activity: 1246

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Quote from: Vicus on June 17, 2013, 12:47:47 PM

Quote from: ProfMac on June 17, 2013, 12:39:27 PM

Quote from: Vicus on June 17, 2013, 04:00:35 AM

Today I finally received my units from Feb. 2 order. One unit was almost clean, while other one is moderate dusty. After checking all connections and desoldering F1 fuse, I started to configure units. First unit has been tuned to ozco.in and that is not surprise, cos same config was on my unit from batch one. Second unit has more interesting config:
http://puu.sh/3hrak.png
As you can see, first pool is eligius.st and most important is address: https://blockchain.info/address/1AYdAw8CcrQ2wx55LTbFHRn5bxgNZhaRLW?offset=0&filter=0
716.40851602 BTC was mined from April 22 by various units. And only gods know, how much was mined on ozco.in.
So, regardles what said Yifu, the answer is: YES, Team Avalon is mining with customer units.

PS: I'm don't have any problems with fact, that Avalon is mining with my units, if this is burn test and not introducing shipment delays.

Does your tracking information tell when the unit left Avalon's control?

May 24

That seems like 3 weeks that are unaccounted for, when many units are able to ship in a matter of days.

I don't have it together enough to compete at making Avalon clones with the chips they are selling. However, I doodle with different ideas of how I might change the design.

Some options that came to mind are:
1. A GPS unit that sends it's location to a well known database.
2. IPv6 with a MAC based address that puts it's identity into a well known ntp servers logs.
3. A "power on" log across the AC power, similar to what lots of high end lab equiptment has.

jerfelix

sr. member

Activity: 266

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Quote from: auto2nr1 on June 17, 2013, 12:54:06 PM

I feel that they should be mining on the testnet if they were going to be mining for an extended period of time. If they were going to be mining on the mainnet to do testing it should be no more than 24-48 hours at most. After the short test period as long as the unit did not experience any issues it should be shipped out immediately. It is unfortunate that they are mining and profiting off the customers units that have been crowd funded. Undecided

Did you do the math?

If they have 1200 units in batch 2 and 3, and they are currently generating about 3 BTC per day (and more back in April), how many Bitcoins would have been generated with a 24-48 hour burn-in test?

Hint: A lot more than the 716 BTC mentioned here!

coinedBit

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

I don't know, except for pretty much anybody else, they have actually delivered something, so the temptation must be huge once you realize that most of your competitors underperform, possibly also because they're realizing how much profit you can make by mining extensively and delaying hardware delivery, because of the exponential increase in difficulty.

auto2nr1

sr. member

Activity: 350

Merit: 250

I feel that they should be mining on the testnet if they were going to be mining for an extended period of time. If they were going to be mining on the mainnet to do testing it should be no more than 24-48 hours at most. After the short test period as long as the unit did not experience any issues it should be shipped out immediately. It is unfortunate that they are mining and profiting off the customers units that have been crowd funded. Undecided

infested999

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Activity: 854

Merit: 500

Quote from: Rampion on June 17, 2013, 12:44:55 PM

Quote from: ThickAsThieves on June 17, 2013, 12:39:14 PM

Quote from: coinedBit on June 17, 2013, 12:37:27 PM

honestly, is there even a single person here who wouldn't be doing the same thing ? Cheesy

for months though?

Honestly, I wouldn't mine with units that were crowd-fucking-funded. Some of us have a minimum of ethics and principles. Some of us would have some empathy towards the folks that risked their hard-earned money to make this project happen.

Yeah, I guess all of us would try to maximize the profit and build a % of units that we would keep for ourselves and mine with them. But mining with customer's units, taking away from them the possibility of achieving break-even? Because that's what's going to happen to late batch #2 and all batch #3.

Because of the above, I don't think Avalon is mining with customers units. Yifu really seem a guy with ideals, that won't fuck with people like that. Thus, until definitive proof is given, I will believe they are just incurring in unfortunate manufacturing and shipping delays, I will believe his word and I will keep thinking they never mined with customers units.

Since they are still the most ethical company in the game right now I will give them the benefit of the doubt that maybe they only pre-mined with some of the units. OP's unit just happened to be one of the most used ones.

DobZombie

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Former curator of The Bitcoin Museum

Quote from: KS on June 17, 2013, 09:09:16 AM

Quote from: jspielberg on June 17, 2013, 09:05:42 AM

Quote from: pikeadz on June 17, 2013, 05:48:13 AM

"RLW" was noticed in the Eligius pool thread a few weeks ago as having brought in 3.5 Th/s for a few days. Then they (Avalon) left, and came back a couple days later. There were several pages of discussion speculating who it was. I guess we know for sure now.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2276814

Here is another thread discussing the 3.5TH/s enigma on eligius a few weeks back.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2280383

Avalon farm of 50+ units seemed unlikely... but not impossible. Looks like confirmation.

I guess the good news is that the mining difficulty won't go up much when those units ship to their new owners Roll Eyes

It's not a farm, the payouts would be much higher. Testing is still possible.

Thats what the BLOODY TESTNET IS FOR!

Angry

Vicus

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Activity: 798

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Quote from: ProfMac on June 17, 2013, 12:39:27 PM

Quote from: Vicus on June 17, 2013, 04:00:35 AM

Today I finally received my units from Feb. 2 order. One unit was almost clean, while other one is moderate dusty. After checking all connections and desoldering F1 fuse, I started to configure units. First unit has been tuned to ozco.in and that is not surprise, cos same config was on my unit from batch one. Second unit has more interesting config:
http://puu.sh/3hrak.png
As you can see, first pool is eligius.st and most important is address: https://blockchain.info/address/1AYdAw8CcrQ2wx55LTbFHRn5bxgNZhaRLW?offset=0&filter=0
716.40851602 BTC was mined from April 22 by various units. And only gods know, how much was mined on ozco.in.
So, regardles what said Yifu, the answer is: YES, Team Avalon is mining with customer units.

PS: I'm don't have any problems with fact, that Avalon is mining with my units, if this is burn test and not introducing shipment delays.

Does your tracking information tell when the unit left Avalon's control?

May 24

Rampion

legendary

Activity: 1148

Merit: 1018

Quote from: ThickAsThieves on June 17, 2013, 12:39:14 PM

Quote from: coinedBit on June 17, 2013, 12:37:27 PM

honestly, is there even a single person here who wouldn't be doing the same thing ? Cheesy

for months though?

Honestly, I wouldn't mine with units that were crowd-fucking-funded. Some of us have a minimum of ethics and principles. Some of us would have some empathy towards the folks that risked their hard-earned money to make this project happen.

Yeah, I guess all of us would try to maximize the profit and build a % of units that we would keep for ourselves and mine with them. But mining with customer's units, taking away from them the possibility of achieving break-even? Because that's what's going to happen to late batch #2 and all batch #3.

Because of the above, I don't think Avalon is mining with customers units. Yifu really seem a guy with ideals, that won't fuck with people like that. Thus, until definitive proof is given, I will believe they are just incurring in unfortunate manufacturing and shipping delays, I will believe his word and I will keep thinking they never mined with customers units.

ThickAsThieves

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: infested999 on June 17, 2013, 12:43:31 PM

Is it not a bit suspicious that if they were mining 700 BTC for "testing", something they should have made public and is not for us to find out, that they would have deleted the default pool information? This all seems too easy to come out.

Or Avalon just doesn't care or is ignorant against customer satisfaction.

Or they simply missed a spot.

infested999

hero member

Activity: 854

Merit: 500

Is it not a bit suspicious that if they were mining 700 BTC for "testing", something they should have made public and is not for us to find out, that they would have deleted the default pool information? This all seems too easy to come out.

Or Avalon just doesn't care or is ignorant against customer satisfaction.

ProfMac

legendary

Activity: 1246

Merit: 1002

Quote from: seleme on June 17, 2013, 12:16:16 PM

Quote from: minternj on June 17, 2013, 12:04:12 PM

Seems like no need to find a "plausible explanation". sometimes the simplest is the truth. I've said this in other threads, people really need to re-evaluate their idea of a normal business interaction when it comes to ANY vendor in the bitcoin world. This is a cutthroat business of fast money, which brings out the worst in people.

This, this and only this.

Haven't seen so big concentration of utter human failures anywhere for some looong time like it's the case with bitcoin and overall cryptocommunity.

I have a feeling people would eat kids for few bitcoins sometimes.

And yet everyone swear about network, new better free world, bla-bla-bla, lol

Vendor: This device will make all the money you can ever spend.
Bitcoiner: I need two.

ProfMac

legendary

Activity: 1246

Merit: 1002

Quote from: Vicus on June 17, 2013, 04:00:35 AM

Today I finally received my units from Feb. 2 order. One unit was almost clean, while other one is moderate dusty. After checking all connections and desoldering F1 fuse, I started to configure units. First unit has been tuned to ozco.in and that is not surprise, cos same config was on my unit from batch one. Second unit has more interesting config:
http://puu.sh/3hrak.png
As you can see, first pool is eligius.st and most important is address: https://blockchain.info/address/1AYdAw8CcrQ2wx55LTbFHRn5bxgNZhaRLW?offset=0&filter=0
716.40851602 BTC was mined from April 22 by various units. And only gods know, how much was mined on ozco.in.
So, regardles what said Yifu, the answer is: YES, Team Avalon is mining with customer units.

PS: I'm don't have any problems with fact, that Avalon is mining with my units, if this is burn test and not introducing shipment delays.

Does your tracking information tell when the unit left Avalon's control?

ThickAsThieves

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: coinedBit on June 17, 2013, 12:37:27 PM

honestly, is there even a single person here who wouldn't be doing the same thing ? Cheesy

for months though?

deadweasel

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 250

Quote from: Loredo on June 17, 2013, 12:36:22 PM

Quote from: usagi on June 17, 2013, 12:29:19 PM

If I was avalon i'd be shitting my pants right now. They pretty much owe you $100k.

No, they don't. They haven't breached any legal agreements. They're "testing."

And anyway, this hardware is coming from China, which is as much the Wild West any day of week as bitcoins is. There's no telling whose sneaking those boxes (if it actually happened on the scale alleged here) off to do a little moonlight test driving.

Exactly this. Prove malevolence or GTFO.

Expecting Transparency? GTFO.

Expecting Professionalism? GTFO.

Expecting an ASIC? GTFO.

Loredo

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: ThickAsThieves on June 17, 2013, 12:29:40 PM

Quote

[12:29] * aknap3 scraps plans to sell shovels, switching to booming pitchfork sales business
[12:30] lol
[12:30] TAT.PITCHFORKINC

I'm already working on the hay-and-pitch torches. So don't you try to front me on that.

coinedBit

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

honestly, is there even a single person here who wouldn't be doing the same thing ? Cheesy

Topic: Is Avalon mining with customer hardware? Answer is here. - page 19. (Read 44379 times)