Topic: Is market manipulation a common occurrence everywhere? - page 3. (Read 832 times)

When I realized that my position and financial capacity in the world of finance aren't as substantial as those capable of steering its course, I deemed it wiser to do what I can to ensure my survival. I've continued to strive to leverage specific circumstances that could yield benefits for me. It's worth mentioning that market manipulation can be executed by a single individual, primarily for informational purposes, highlighting that market movements driven by supply and demand aren't entirely straightforward.

Information of this nature can prove useful to those who are yet unfamiliar with it. This means that we shouldn't set overly high expectations for any one thing. What matters most at this juncture is making efforts to keep the economy running smoothly.

We can really tell or able to say that manipulation could really happen but we cant really be able to point out fingers but rather we would really be that presuming that its a manipulative act. Take for example with those
Elon Musks tweets which it turns out to be that a simple tweet but it did really make out some significant impact on the coin that he's really that mentioning on which means that you cant really be able to avoid on having those kind of thinking that this might be intentional or what. Same goes into those sudden news which do pop out from nowhere and this one includes those ETF related kind of news or fundamentals on which it did really make out such impact on the time these news had come out in the market. This is why you cant really blame out people not to have those kind of words and thinking into their minds about probabilities.Rather than on making yourself that getting stressed with these things, then why you cant really just simply make yourself go with the flow and act accordingly basing up on whats the trend? You could really make out some money or profits
in short time if you do really just knowledgeable on how to take advantage out of these news or fundamentals. Although it wont really be that so simple due to total randomness but doesnt mean that it would be
impossible to be done.

Not everyone shares this perspective. Market manipulation in the cryptocurrency world has, on several occasions, been influenced by rather absurd factors. Elon Musk demonstrated this by merely sending out tweets about Bitcoin or Dogecoin, causing immediate fluctuations in the prices of these related tokens. I believe this wasn't solely due to supply and demand dynamics but rather driven by FOMO (Fear of Missing Out) and manufactured manipulation orchestrated by Elon Musk.

Shaping the price of Bitcoin into someone's desired outcome through crafty means, I believe, falls under the strategy of manipulating cryptocurrency and other assets.

Letting money do the talking makes centralized entities more susceptible to human manipulation. Manipulating decentralized systems, on the other hand, requires a bit more effort since there's no central control. So, it necessitates employing different methods.

It is easy to manipulate market in dealing with altcoins but this is not possible with the bitcoin network, we understand that the entire procedures of most of the memecoins are investors base decision and if they so wishes, the project can continue with their steady funding and once they are not willing anymore or when the market becomes u favourable for the to sustain through the process, they withdraw their investment and funding to the coin and the whole things stops.

I think they could still "manipulate" it by making it legal or illegal. A government could make bitcoin illegal in the nation, buy a bunch of it so that it would be cheaper  for them to buy it, and then they could make it legal and then sell it when it goes back up.

Of course you need to be a nation that matters, because we have seen nations like El-Salvador that got into bitcoin and the price just kept on going down more and more, which is the trouble, I think it should be important to realize that it is going to be something special, like maybe USA or UK that could do this. It would allow them to manipulate it with the law they have and then they could profit from it if they want to do something like that.

The difference between net worth and having real money is different. Networth is based on what they own in different places like the stock market, real estate, and other things. Imagine Elon sells those shares. The value of the thing will decrease. He won't be able to sell all at once. That's how it works. Net worth is not equal to liquid money. So does he really owns that money or can he have that total in once in order to manipulate the market? From what I can tell, he can't. Or anyone else. It is possible tho as I said, but unlikely to happen.

Also as you mentioned, the more he buys, the more price increases per buy. So it will be tough for anyone to do it unless everyone come together and do it as a group. That won't happen because as the price goes low, others will buy.

Market manipulation is common even the drug kingpins in every city are manipulating. Even the prices of toilet paper are manipulated. But this probably isn't what OP is talking about.
If he is talking about the crypto market, it's obvious what Elon is doing and even the SEC is manipulating the market by deliberately announcing stuff to make the price drop.

But the ones with power like the politicians and government leaders are the ones that can make things happen and make money of insider info.

Money is power but people are not manipulating everything with money but they manipulate everything to earn more money. We are unable to react in right way because a true and honest man cannot survive in this world.

There will be few individuals who will not think about money but majority of population's aim is just to get money and those few individuals will hardly continues their life journey because in this world dishonest rich people are prominent and they make the life of poor people hard.

Investment and business is not a game and it can be felt by those individuals who think it as a game and then loss their large sum of money because they did not think this filed serious

According to this article, Elon Musk's wealth in July 2023 is estimated at approximately $254 billion.

And currently, the total supply of Bitcoin stands at 19.5 million BTC. Let's calculate based on the current BTC rate, which is $25,000. Here are the results. This is just Elon Musk alone, but there are still many of the world's wealthiest individuals who could combine their fortunes if they genuinely wanted to manipulate BTC by buying up all available supply at the current price.



Just a bit more to reach 51%.

The challenging part would be the price increase when they make these purchases. However, they are individuals with immense power, and I believe they have the ability to leverage the media in their plan to shape a bearish market, ultimately securing lower prices.

So, do you still believe that Bitcoin cannot truly be manipulated in terms of its price?

Do you know why small coins or new altcoins dumps heavily in value when Bitcoin losses a funny percentage of it's value? That's because altcoins have tinny marcketcaps, the amount of money invested in alt isn't the same as that of Bitcoin, and the lower the market cap the easier it is to manipulate.

The same can happen if a project is Proof of work based, it can be manipulated is on individual controls 59% of the project hash rate, and it's very possible.

With Bitcoin manipulation can happen but it will also cost a lot, but The easiest route is unleashing bad news about Bitcoin adoption or revealing a bad news about a certain company that's well invested into Bitcoin before.

This is where insight is needed to find out which coins are under the influence of manipulation and which are not. Beginners are the most prone to falling victim to the coin pumping and throwing. But for professionals, coins that are being pumped can actually bring profit. Because they know when to get in and when to get out. But for beginners sometimes they misunderstand by buying at the height of the hype and then when the price falls they don't sell it. Because they hope prices will rise again quickly. And after the price fell further, they realized that the price would not rise again quickly. So when they realize it is too late because now their assets have suffered huge losses. I've experienced this too. And I learned from that. And never get stuck again.

One of the issues with those low market cap coins is that you do not even need a whale to manipulate its price, as we know very well that pump and dump groups specialize in doing exactly that, and the manipulation they can exercise on those coins is huge, as we have seen in the past small cap coins growing at an amazing speed only for the crash to be even faster.

It is because of this that we need to avoid those coins as that manipulation can come out of nowhere and cause us to suffer a massive loss.

considering the fact that bitcoin trading volume right now reaches 12 billions and more then its true that its definitely almost impossible for individual whales to manipulate the market through the means of using money but for groups of big investment company surely the possibility rate increase, but i think at this point the market of bitcoin is quite organic. that I don't think manipulation is that rampant but regardless thats just my 2 cents.

the use of media is quite effective to control bitcoin price honestly, just the rumour of space x dumping their bitcoin is enough to shake the market recently.
after all if using means of manipulating through the use of capital it would definitely requires hundred millions and that doesn't necessarily enough so using the media become more efficient nowadays.

So true. Usually altcoins that have a low market cap are always the target of manipulating price movements in the market. Often this happens when Bitcoin is in a sideways state. So the whales started playing with the prices of several altcoins that initially had very low trading volumes. We can see examples of what happened in the past few days. Many altcoins are played by whales.

Regarding bitcoin market manipulation, it is very difficult to do. But it can still be done. By controlling the news media. Through Fud and such. I don't want to mention it. But many recent economic events seem to be playing out, right? I don't know if it's a coincidence or not. But it succeeded in making Bitcoin move quickly in terms of increases and decreases.

I would like you to not imply things I haven't said. I was talking about a hypothetical scenario (I called it hypothetical plans) and then said that where power is centralized, there is also a window of opportunity for fraud (or conspiracy as you call it). The LIBOR scandal is one example of that and Anshu Jain, a former Deutsche Bank boss was also involved (surprise surprise). If they didn't have the power, they couldn't have executed the manipulation.

This is the so called fraud diamond:



I have investigated a few fraud cases during my academic path and the fraud diamond is simple, it almost looks trivial, but a lot can be derived from it. Capability in most cases reverts to centralization of power. Top-down structures that can either command the execution of a fraudulent activity directly or indirectly by creating pressure/incentive. The LIBOR scandal can be very well explained and it is also very well documented. I assume you have never looked into it from an investigative perspective, because if you had would would know what I was talking about.

Yes, Banks collude! Absolutely do they collude. Again, this can happen either work through discreet implied "contracts" / collusion because everyone knows what to do without talking, or there can be the obvious version, meaning a few CEOs meet for a coffee and afterwards something happens (which is probably rarely the case ).

Do we have examples? Oh hell yes, the subprime mortgage crisis was a kind of collusion, but eventually everyone colluding was competing with each other because of fire sales and the subsequent liquidity crunch, blowing up balance sheets and letting them crash altogether, or at least those who were worst at the round-robin-game.

The funniest of it all is that you are bringing up the term conspiracy and that "centralization of power doesn't inevitably mean widespread manipulation". A knife doesn't inevitably mean murder and a chair could mean murder and not inevitably mean sitting. But Bitcoin exists because "not inevitably" could translate into "possibly", and since the world has not fared that well with your "not inevitably", Nakamoto thought about the system that sets in stone the rules and the mechanics of the game.

The fraud diamond shows that there is massive incentive to tamper with the blockchain, rationalization for tampering it is also conceivable, but capability and opportunity are possibly infinitely small.

Can Bitcoin the market be manipulated? Yes, but Bitcoin has an interesting feedback loop because as the price rises through manipulation, adoption and the network actually grows because rising prices usually draw attention to something, increasing future resilience for further manipulation.

Centralization is among the most important factors reflected by capability and opportunity in the fraud diamond. How could the mortgage crisis enfold like that? Because of centralization of power. Banks paid the auditors that attested to the validity of MBS reported fair value. A lack in independence led to those misstatements. An enmeshed network of top-down power and dependencies without negative feedback loops including penalties led to the whole thing to burst in the end.

I think it’s fairly possible. However in case of Bitcoin it seems fairly impossible. The market is really big and whatever money is in the hands of individuals isn’t enough to move the market price. The money flows in billions of dollars everyday. The decentralised nature definitely prohibits individuals from making any moves that can cause market to fall or move upwards with the intentions of manipulating it.

On the other hand it can be opposite when the market is centralised. The shares are always limited by the holding company. There could be chances of insider trading. Sometimes it could be the entity itself or sometimes it could be individual with high stakes in an entity. Different nature of market different ways to manipulate.  

Money is power; if you have it, you can manipulate everything, as our world is full of dishonest people. We have to be realistic so we can react the right way. Let's not expect that everything we see is true; once money is involved, everything can be manipulated, as greediness is already a part of being human. Only a few really have pure hearts. Just play the game, as that's the only way we can survive and maybe profit from our investments.

You know what, investing or business is actually just a game; you play well, you win.

I don't think, cryptocurrency can be manipulate by wealthy individuals because many governments officials has confirmed it during the pandemic that frustrated so many organization but cryptocurrency was pumping massively during the period to help their investors to achieve something good from their investment.The People that can manipulate the cryptocurrency market in the whole world are demands and supply's, which are the only group of people that can affect cryptocurrency market positively and negatively.  Governments can manipulate the price of centralized currency, but it will be difficult for them to manipulate decentralized currency, because the people who can move the market price in the time of bearish and bullish are demand and supply.

In general terms, market manipulation is possible, but what we should focus on is the kind of market where this chances of manipulating market price is very possible and feasible, in cryptocurrency, i don't think it's possible with bitcoin but can be possible with other cryptocurrencies since their market value is determined by the stakeholders who are the major investors on that particular coin, in the open financial and centralized economy of fiat, it is very possible and many are doing it and will always continue with that as long as the decision is being made by some category set of people.

If legals has taken good course, 99% of centralized exchanges will go down because they are the insider traders but then, they will come quickly to debunk these news. Take a look at IEO that are been conducted on these exchanges, the listing of coins and tokens, they are the first to get this information especially the main teams, they even sometimes sell this information so that they don't get implicated at the end. Tbe rate of insider trading among market makers is everywhere around crypto industry but they are always quick to break traces else legal tenders will have enough tax to help the government.

Furthermore, the fact is this, market manipulation will always exist in a any financial instruments as long as there are buyers and sellers, is just like having illegal gold miners and approved government gold miners, no matter how they fight this, it will continue because money is involved and where there is money, you should expect manipulation of such. Market manipulation is even worst wheen there is bull run in crypto.