Is this considered cheating? or Ilegal? - page 3.

btc78

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Quote from: k@suy on August 20, 2020, 11:46:57 AM

Quote from: svelandiag on June 18, 2020, 03:21:37 PM

As you can see the hash doesn't match... I contacted the support demanding an explanation, this is what they answered:

Basically they told me it was just a typo issue, they gave me a $5 bonus "for letting them know about the mistake". I just don't understand how they claim to be the #1 Bitcoin gambling site and making these kinds of mistakes in such an important section of their website... That's shady for me, and I definitely will never gamble there again.

It looks like a scam or probably a big fish for them to catch players in which they can easily to persuade to play on their side. They are fooling those people who are easy to get that's why as a gambler we should be aware on playing in a specific website in order for us to avoid scams like that.

This means we must not play in many sites when we can have our loyalty in sites that is legit and being trusted for many years.
As a gambler we must be aware of scams from sites and how they work to gain the money of players without them not having a chance to win it back.
Be informative each time because gambling can take our money is any way and by any chance.

Sadlife

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Quote from: mu_enrico on June 18, 2020, 12:11:34 AM

Quote from: svelandiag on June 17, 2020, 02:38:31 PM

when they revealed the unhashed server seed I checked it using a SHA512 calculator... It should match the hashed server seed they provided to me, however, it does not match.

So the hashed SHA512 of the server seed is different from the hashed server seed they gave to me when I started my session.

First, I would suggest you share the unhashed server seed here so everyone can double-check it. Did you calculate using binary hash or string hash? Sometimes it was the problem.

https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/40924/op-sha256-mismatch

Yes indeed, free online tools could have discrepancies in result. You should first double check. Maybe, you're just doing something wrong in your process that the output is different from what you've expected.
Better post the hashed server code here, so the community can help or guide you, on how to throughly check it.

imstillthebest

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Quote from: carriebee on August 22, 2020, 05:17:29 PM

When playing in a betting site some users did not verify if the system is really provably fair. Because the gambler have gained so much trust to site that they use to play. In my view, this is considered cheating and illegal if found manipulate the game output since a player can check and confirm game fairness. Also, may I know if possible what betting site is this.

true , lots of players can relate with that but this is considered as negligence if you wont check your bets after betting .

on here we can see that the guy check his bets and he saw some small mistakes . i dont know if how long he was playing on this site but we can say that the site got his trust because he play here with such huge amounts . the site already explained what happen and the site is one of the oldest , its possible that they tell the truth .

carriebee

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When playing in a betting site some users did not verify if the system is really provably fair. Because the gambler have gained so much trust to site that they use to play. In my view, this is considered cheating and illegal if found manipulate the game output since a player can check and confirm game fairness. Also, may I know if possible what betting site is this.

Insanerman

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Quote from: svelandiag on June 17, 2020, 02:38:31 PM

So the hashed SHA512 of the server seed is different from the hashed server seed they gave to me when I started my session. Isn't that considered cheating? I mean they probably are calculating right the dice value, however, the only fact of having wrong information on their provably fair statement should be enough for a legal complaint, shouldn't it?

Please someone tell me if it is enough to put some lawyers to work, or if it would be just a waste of time. Thanks!

Yes. It is more likely enough. Their algorithm on dice should be always fair. The randomness of the result is so important in this kind of game. No one is allowed to manipulate it, if the casino does, then it's better to report them or seek to a lawyer. No doubt that their probably probably fair dice is unfair.

bitbunnny

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Quote from: AjithBtc on August 22, 2020, 05:16:06 AM

Every gambling website term their service to be provably fair. Most of the users never experiment or verify it, believing on the reputation the gambling website has gained. If some user has made some conversation about the plans of betting on chats, there is more chance of the gambling website making use it an opportunity and make the changes on the play accordingly.

That is possible, gambling sites to take advantage of such information but they shouldn't do it. I don't think that it's illegal or forbidden but it's certainly not fair and against good business practice.
That is why it's the best to even avoid such situations if possible because you never know who and in what way will use something you mention on chat or similar unless you know that it's really trustworthy and fair gambling site.

2double0

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It is cheating and you can hire a lawyer to determine the category under which this falls as it is related to online gambling. One another point to remember, only hire if you can afford the length of the case (if your money is worth recovering and if it was too big a number to recover) because you may end up losing more on your case if the judge doesn't allow a fee claim to you.

BlackFor3st

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It can be considered cheating if in case your verification is indeed correct. I am not a pro in terms of verifying the probably fair algorithm in every casinos but it will be good if you can drop the site link so the other forum members can
verify it whether your verification is correct or not.

Many members here can surely help you in verifying it and for us also to avoid that site if we can verify that they are cheating.

pikkie

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Quote from: AjithBtc on August 22, 2020, 05:16:06 AM

Every gambling website term their service to be provably fair. Most of the users never experiment or verify it, believing on the reputation the gambling website has gained. If some user has made some conversation about the plans of betting on chats, there is more chance of the gambling website making use it an opportunity and make the changes on the play accordingly.

well that is the fault of unprofessional gamblers, they only believe the statements that have been given at the gambling place are often incorrect, so I suggest that gamblers are better off looking for information in advance how to believe in that gambling place and as much as possible to see various many kinds of reputation that are given in this forum.

erikoy

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Quote from: mezzaluna on August 21, 2020, 11:55:47 AM

In cases like this, you should always let your gut feeling decide for you since it can take too long to notice that something is rigged. You can also take some snapshots or photos of that possible rigged website since they are using an un-hashed server. You can also test other websites Provable Fair algorithm.

Yes photos will be a concrete evidence if you decide to pursue on filing a complain. But make a clarification first to the developer because maybe it was unintentionally done and they can possibly compensate you with your losses especially if it relatively small. But making it legal would be needing an expert to attest your claims about it. So you will going to spend some money for it. How much loss you have made? Next time try to check those good gambling site for this.

Quote from: Becky666link=topic=5256319.msg55044738#msg55044738 date=1598094049

You're right, especially when you're used to a particular online gambling casino with a mindset of them not be involved into cheat. I personally don't verify some online gambling casino websites before play because of my trust with them. Although this is wrong because any of these online gambling casinos can turn from their Fairless to be unfair just to game the gamblers. We should always ensure to verify gambling casinos irrespective of our trust with them to save others from getting be cheated like OP.

This is one thing that gambler should be consider. This is a lesson learn for every gambler. One should verify all things needed before joining into a gambling site. Pretty sure this will be a good experience being shared by OP.

Becky666

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Quote from: AjithBtc on August 22, 2020, 05:16:06 AM

Every gambling website term their service to be provably fair. Most of the users never experiment or verify it, believing on the reputation the gambling website has gained. If some user has made some conversation about the plans of betting on chats, there is more chance of the gambling website making use it an opportunity and make the changes on the play accordingly.

You're right, especially when you're used to a particular online gambling casino with a mindset of them not be involved into cheat. I personally don't verify some online gambling casino websites before play because of my trust with them. Although this is wrong because any of these online gambling casinos can turn from their Fairless to be unfair just to game the gamblers. We should always ensure to verify gambling casinos irrespective of our trust with them to save others from getting be cheated like OP.

AjithBtc

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Every gambling website term their service to be provably fair. Most of the users never experiment or verify it, believing on the reputation the gambling website has gained. If some user has made some conversation about the plans of betting on chats, there is more chance of the gambling website making use it an opportunity and make the changes on the play accordingly.

Bezobraznike

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Quote from: mezzaluna on August 21, 2020, 11:55:47 AM

Quote from: svelandiag on June 17, 2020, 02:38:31 PM

-Seen

In cases like this, you should always let your gut feeling decide for you since it can take too long to notice that something is rigged. You can also take some snapshots or photos of that possible rigged website since they are using an un-hashed server. You can also test other websites Provable Fair algorithm.

What OP shared is more than a gut feeling! I agree with you Mezzaluna that he should provide snapshots, the name of the site, and
all other info that can help all of us, for some with technical knowledge to check their provably fair system, and for us others to avoid
that site. I don't check my bets, win or lose I just keep gambling, I trust Bitvest and other sites where I gamble enough to not do
it, but as we can see there're sites that cheat people.

mezzaluna

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Quote from: svelandiag on June 17, 2020, 02:38:31 PM

Hello, This happened to me today, on a provably fair Dice Bitcoin gambling site I lost some money, then I checked my bets using an online verifier, in their website they say they use SHA512 algorithm to hash server seed, however, when they revealed the unhashed server seed I checked it using a SHA512 calculator... It should match the hashed server seed they provided to me, however, it does not match.

So the hashed SHA512 of the server seed is different from the hashed server seed they gave to me when I started my session. Isn't that considered cheating? I mean they probably are calculating right the dice value, however, the only fact of having wrong information on their provably fair statement should be enough for a legal complaint, shouldn't it?

Please someone tell me if it is enough to put some lawyers to work, or if it would be just a waste of time. Thanks!

In cases like this, you should always let your gut feeling decide for you since it can take too long to notice that something is rigged. You can also take some snapshots or photos of that possible rigged website since they are using an un-hashed server. You can also test other websites Provable Fair algorithm.

john_nautica

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Quote from: Jemzx00 on August 20, 2020, 01:12:05 PM

Quote from: akram143 on August 20, 2020, 12:22:20 PM

Quote from: k@suy on August 20, 2020, 11:46:57 AM

snip....
It looks like a scam or probably a big fish for them to catch players in which they can easily to persuade to play on their side. They are fooling those people who are easy to get that's why as a gambler we should be aware on playing in a specific website in order for us to avoid scams like that.

If it is reputed gambling site means more whales are playing there and also their wager amount is lot bigger, probably they could involve in selective scamming on big bets but if they repeating them means no one will be playing their so how they are maintaining as one of the biggest casino. So I guess this is legit typo issue if if they uses the right hash calculator then it is probably can be verified its fairness.

Most gambling sites are always claiming to be the one of the biggest casino and even showing big bets that won and lose to attract gamblers to hop in their site. They're probably keep on maintaining scamming people and letting some gamblers win and let them lose once they became greedy which is one of the weakness or even sickness of gamblers.
It's probably a legit typo but that could damage the website a lot as it affect their probably fair rules. And a 5$ compensation for a crucial issue that can compromise their site is garbage.

I agree with you, I am really skeptic about this scenario here. When their reputation of legitimacy and being fair is at stake, even for a small mistake such as "typo" as they say, he compensation they made is not really justifying.

carlfebz2

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Quote from: Jemzx00 on August 20, 2020, 01:12:05 PM

Quote from: akram143 on August 20, 2020, 12:22:20 PM

Quote from: k@suy on August 20, 2020, 11:46:57 AM

snip....
It looks like a scam or probably a big fish for them to catch players in which they can easily to persuade to play on their side. They are fooling those people who are easy to get that's why as a gambler we should be aware on playing in a specific website in order for us to avoid scams like that.

If it is reputed gambling site means more whales are playing there and also their wager amount is lot bigger, probably they could involve in selective scamming on big bets but if they repeating them means no one will be playing their so how they are maintaining as one of the biggest casino. So I guess this is legit typo issue if if they uses the right hash calculator then it is probably can be verified its fairness.

Most gambling sites are always claiming to be the one of the biggest casino and even showing big bets that won and lose to attract gamblers to hop in their site. They're probably keep on maintaining scamming people and letting some gamblers win and let them lose once they became greedy which is one of the weakness or even sickness of gamblers.
It's probably a legit typo but that could damage the website a lot as it affect their probably fair rules. And a 5$ compensation for a crucial issue that can compromise their site is garbage.

$5 for that? I would surely react into that amount yet we know that on how serious can really affect possibly into the website.They do just simply tell that it is a typo but we wouldnt know if its actually a real
issue which had just been covered up to make it just an accident and would cut the further discussion about fairness..

Didnt have the time to readback but i would like to know on whats the site is being discussed on here?

When it comes to fairness and if there are some deceptive act or manipulation then its always considered as cheating.

Jemzx00

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Quote from: akram143 on August 20, 2020, 12:22:20 PM

Quote from: k@suy on August 20, 2020, 11:46:57 AM

snip....
It looks like a scam or probably a big fish for them to catch players in which they can easily to persuade to play on their side. They are fooling those people who are easy to get that's why as a gambler we should be aware on playing in a specific website in order for us to avoid scams like that.

If it is reputed gambling site means more whales are playing there and also their wager amount is lot bigger, probably they could involve in selective scamming on big bets but if they repeating them means no one will be playing their so how they are maintaining as one of the biggest casino. So I guess this is legit typo issue if if they uses the right hash calculator then it is probably can be verified its fairness.

Most gambling sites are always claiming to be the one of the biggest casino and even showing big bets that won and lose to attract gamblers to hop in their site. They're probably keep on maintaining scamming people and letting some gamblers win and let them lose once they became greedy which is one of the weakness or even sickness of gamblers.
It's probably a legit typo but that could damage the website a lot as it affect their probably fair rules. And a 5$ compensation for a crucial issue that can compromise their site is garbage.

akram143

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Quote from: k@suy on August 20, 2020, 11:46:57 AM

snip....
It looks like a scam or probably a big fish for them to catch players in which they can easily to persuade to play on their side. They are fooling those people who are easy to get that's why as a gambler we should be aware on playing in a specific website in order for us to avoid scams like that.

If it is reputed gambling site means more whales are playing there and also their wager amount is lot bigger, probably they could involve in selective scamming on big bets but if they repeating them means no one will be playing their so how they are maintaining as one of the biggest casino.So I guess this is legit typo issue if if they uses the right hash calculator then it is probably can be verified its fairness.

k@suy

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Quote from: svelandiag on June 18, 2020, 03:21:37 PM

As you can see the hash doesn't match... I contacted the support demanding an explanation, this is what they answered:

Basically they told me it was just a typo issue, they gave me a $5 bonus "for letting them know about the mistake". I just don't understand how they claim to be the #1 Bitcoin gambling site and making these kinds of mistakes in such an important section of their website... That's shady for me, and I definitely will never gamble there again.

It looks like a scam or probably a big fish for them to catch players in which they can easily to persuade to play on their side. They are fooling those people who are easy to get that's why as a gambler we should be aware on playing in a specific website in order for us to avoid scams like that.

Saint-loup

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Quote from: johhnyUA on June 24, 2020, 03:29:11 PM

Quote from: Saint-loup on June 21, 2020, 05:16:30 PM

Now 5 days have passed since OP has opened the thread. So what is your conclusion?
If they were serious they would have fixed the so-called typo without delay or they would halt the game if they are not able to fix it quickly.
But I think they don't care or they are dishonest and they don't want people to check their house seeds.

I doubt that anyone read such trash threads in one of the most trashy branch of the forum. This is not even like "This_site is scam because they have a typo issue in their terms" in meaning that would bring attention (not for sure). But this is funny - you think that any gambling site reading any topic here.

You can report this problem directly to the site and then we will se what will they do.

You should read more carefully those so-called "trash threads" before replying IMHO because Svelandiag said above he contacted them personally as you can see.
This is why I said they don't care or they are dishonest.

Quote from: svelandiag on June 18, 2020, 03:21:37 PM

As you can see the hash doesn't match... I contacted the support demanding an explanation, this is what they answered:

Basically they told me it was just a typo issue, they gave me a $5 bonus "for letting them know about the mistake". I just don't understand how they claim to be the #1 Bitcoin gambling site and making these kinds of mistakes in such an important section of their website... That's shady for me, and I definitely will never gamble there again.

Topic: Is this considered cheating? or Ilegal? - page 3. (Read 1168 times)