Is this considered cheating? or Ilegal? - page 6.

pixie85

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Quote from: svelandiag on June 18, 2020, 03:21:37 PM

This is the hashed result using a SHA512 calculator

Are you able to recheck the hash with SHA 256?

Have you tried it?
If it does match this isn't such a big issue that they had a typo in the explanation.

0.4 BTC is not a small amount. Despite the loss you're somewhat lucky if it is small for you.

svelandiag

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Okay, the issue happened with PrimeDice, it is very popular, The amount I lost is actually small it's like 0.4BTC and 2ETH... But here are the details of the issue

This is the server seed and the hashed server seed of my bets
https://i.imgur.com/eAo9lTE.png

Their provably fair statement said they were using SHA512 to hash the server seed.
https://i.imgur.com/gwaSzzIg.png

This is the hashed result using a SHA512 calculator
https://i.imgur.com/HjIzbfR.png

As you can see the hash doesn't match... I contacted the support demanding an explanation, this is what they answered:
https://i.imgur.com/QEdzC6H.png

Basically they told me it was just a typo issue, they gave me a $5 bonus "for letting them know about the mistake". I just don't understand how they claim to be the #1 Bitcoin gambling site and making these kinds of mistakes in such an important section of their website... That's shady for me, and I definitely will never gamble there again.

johhnyUA

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Quote from: Saisher on June 18, 2020, 01:19:01 PM

You have a point maybe this is the reason why he did not name the gambling site, he needs to double check if possible ask a friend who knows how to code so he can check the accuracy of his report, if it's true that the site is showing differently, then he can strike a deal or go here to post accusations with all the proof.

This is what happens very often, so i think this is real reason. I faced it to many times on online hashing sites, so to verify yourself you need something like Python, hashlib and right command like hashlib.sha256(b"neededseed").hexdigest

Then he can share his conclusions here

BitcoinTurk

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I think the situation you are talking about is cheating because the service you are using does not work as it claims. I also think that such a situation will not be the result of an error, because poor quality services are usurping their users with such traps. Personally, I never control the game I lost, I can be sure if this happens to me, I wouldn't even notice. What was the website you were using? Actually, I wondered if you would name it here, nothing will change. At best, if there is a representative here, he will return your money by writing the message that there was an error. My advice to you, do not use any website that you do not know and has no popularity.

Ryker1

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Quote from: AakZaki on June 18, 2020, 01:55:11 PM

it would be nice if you say what site you mean so that colleagues here review the truth. that way you can save friends who try gambling sites that you mean.
here you cannot be fully trusted if you do not show any evidence, even if you make several lawyers handle your case if there is no valid evidence I think it will be a waste of time.

Well, you are right and this is also the most people awaited above, --the response of OP about this problem of gambling site so that we also aware of their services had. Compilation of concrete evidence will always a good as a solid proof and perhaps the gambling site that he meant was going down and there are no gamblers who will use the site. Indeed, it is clear cheated if the result of the seed is not visible to the player, it can be verified by us if we know the hashed seeds.

AakZaki

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it would be nice if you say what site you mean so that colleagues here review the truth. that way you can save friends who try gambling sites that you mean.
here you cannot be fully trusted if you do not show any evidence, even if you make several lawyers handle your case if there is no valid evidence I think it will be a waste of time.

SnellandWilmer

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Quote from: bitbunnny on June 18, 2020, 01:20:24 PM

It's not only the costs of lawyer that matter in this case. If he wants to win against casino he should find a lawyer who is experienced in such cases and understands technology in order to know exactly what he does and what to look for. To my experience.such lawyers are not so easy to find and when you do, they cost something extra.

Couldn't have said it better myself. At least for the U.S., any litigation matter of this nature you should expect to pay a retainer of at least 1/3rd the first 90 days billing.

bitbunnny

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Quote from: mindrust on June 18, 2020, 04:23:44 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: sunsilk on June 18, 2020, 04:00:09 AM

We're all waiting for you to name the casino. And the fact that you have asked about if it's possible that you have to work with a lawyer considers this involves a probable large amount.

Otherwise, you can talk first to that casino and settle this.

didnt knew that accusing for real requires a lawyer and we all knew that lawyer cost much . if the accused casino fights back , they can always afford to find a good lawyer so chance of winning on them is still slim . settling things first by talking to them directly is the best way to fix the issue but what if a casino is really a scam , they wont still tell the truth right ? best way to ask for other players on the site too if they experience the same thing to cut the cost .

I believe It works like this in these situations:

You find a lawyer and explain the situation. If the lawyer is interested, and wins later,

you and the lawyer will split the prize. If he loses you lose nothing, but i might be wrong with this part.

It's not only the costs of lawyer that matter in this case. If he wants to win against casino he should find a lawyer who is experienced in such cases and understands technology in order to know exactly what he does and what to look for. To my experience.such lawyers are not so easy to find and when you do, they cost something extra.

Saisher

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Quote from: johhnyUA on June 18, 2020, 12:29:32 PM

Quote from: svelandiag on June 17, 2020, 02:38:31 PM

Hello, This happened to me today, on a provably fair Dice Bitcoin gambling site I lost some money, then I checked my bets using an online verifier, in their website they say they use SHA512 algorithm to hash server seed, however, when they revealed the unhashed server seed I checked it using a SHA512 calculator... It should match the hashed server seed they provided to me, however, it does not match.

The problem is that how do you hashed. Sometimes, people insert seed in such way, that it considered by the program not like a big number, but more like string, so results will be different for each type (number/string). When i started my programming on Python, this often happened to me.

So, are you sure that you don't fall under the same mistake?

You have a point maybe this is the reason why he did not name the gambling site, he needs to double check if possible ask a friend who knows how to code so he can check the accuracy of his report, if it's true that the site is showing differently, then he can strike a deal or go here to post accusations with all the proof.

johhnyUA

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Quote from: svelandiag on June 17, 2020, 02:38:31 PM

Hello, This happened to me today, on a provably fair Dice Bitcoin gambling site I lost some money, then I checked my bets using an online verifier, in their website they say they use SHA512 algorithm to hash server seed, however, when they revealed the unhashed server seed I checked it using a SHA512 calculator... It should match the hashed server seed they provided to me, however, it does not match.

The problem is that how do you hashed. Sometimes, people insert seed in such way, that it considered by the program not like a big number, but more like string, so results will be different for each type (number/string). When i started my programming on Python, this often happened to me.

So, are you sure that you don't fall under the same mistake?

pilosopotasyo

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I consider this cheating, giving false information about how you run your gambling site from what your player comes to believe, we all know of the house edge and that in the long run or if you are playing longer your odds to win is very slim and players are accepting that but finding out about this is unacceptable.

SnellandWilmer

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Quote from: svelandiag on June 17, 2020, 02:38:31 PM

if it is enough to put some lawyers to work, or if it would be just a waste of time. Thanks!

1. What is the URL?
2. What is the name of the company?
3. Where are they located?
4. What are the names of the officers, directors, or members of the company?
5. Where are you located and what citizenship do you hold?
6. What is the amount in dispute?

MCobian

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From the chronology you mentioned in the opening post, I'm sure there are indications of fraud. It's better to tell the name the gambling sites,
so we all can avoid using that gambling site. If you are harmed in large numbers, it should be done demands for compensation. Or you can ask
lawyers for help to solve your problem. But you also have to prepare strong evidence, to be able to prosecute these gambling sites.

Sadlife

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Yes according to provably fair documentation it should be considered illegal because the user should only be given one hash seed.
However in a technical perspective we really dont know what's happening in the backend, so you should consult first for an IT guy that's well versed in provably fair algorithm.

leea-1334

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Temporary forum vacation

Looks like OP never came back so we do not know if he really got scammed or he made a mistake. I am very curious to find out too.

I do not think it is 999dice though because like adaseb says, 999dice does NOT give you the seed first before you play, so you never know what it can be. OP is saying, he GOT a seed. So it is a dice site that provides seed first.

ethereumhunter

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Quote from: Yaunfitda on June 18, 2020, 04:22:05 AM

Quote from: svelandiag on June 17, 2020, 02:38:31 PM

Hello, This happened to me today, on a provably fair Dice Bitcoin gambling site I lost some money, then I checked my bets using an online verifier, in their website they say they use SHA512 algorithm to hash server seed, however, when they revealed the unhashed server seed I checked it using a SHA512 calculator... It should match the hashed server seed they provided to me, however, it does not match.

This is cheating.

Quote from: svelandiag on June 17, 2020, 02:38:31 PM

So the hashed SHA512 of the server seed is different from the hashed server seed they gave to me when I started my session. Isn't that considered cheating? I mean they probably are calculating right the dice value, however, the only fact of having wrong information on their provably fair statement should be enough for a legal complaint, shouldn't it?

Please someone tell me if it is enough to put some lawyers to work, or if it would be just a waste of time. Thanks!

Its your call whether you want to pursue this case, it will take a lot of your time and your money. You have to think if this is the right move or not. Maybe the best thing to do is write a Scam Accusations and see how it goes.

Using Scam Accusations will take attention from the owner to answer the curiosity from him. Before he does that, I think he can ask the owner or someone who has responsibility about that, so at least he can have an answer about what is going on with their site. If that does not help, maybe he needs other people to help him to solve the problem. But that will require an effort to pursue that case, and if his money is not big, I don't think that is worth his time.

Saint-loup

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Quote from: Yaunfitda on June 18, 2020, 04:22:05 AM

Quote from: svelandiag on June 17, 2020, 02:38:31 PM

So the hashed SHA512 of the server seed is different from the hashed server seed they gave to me when I started my session. Isn't that considered cheating? I mean they probably are calculating right the dice value, however, the only fact of having wrong information on their provably fair statement should be enough for a legal complaint, shouldn't it?

Please someone tell me if it is enough to put some lawyers to work, or if it would be just a waste of time. Thanks!

Its your call whether you want to pursue this case, it will take a lot of your time and your money. You have to think if this is the right move or not.

I don't understand why you are saying that to him. It's clearly discouraging. It won't take any time to him if he hires a lawyer. Lawyers are paid for that AFAIK.
Moreover if he wins his lawsuits, it won't lose money, he will earn money.

robelneo

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My take on this is the needs to address the name of the gambling site, or we will all speculate and check if the gambling site that we are playing are fair and transparent on what they are showing to their players, this is wrong and they are cheating their player, you could file damage here if you already lose a big amount.

The burden is on OP now that he raised this issue.

Latviand

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Quote from: kawetsriyanto on June 17, 2020, 06:18:49 PM

Quote from: serjent05 on June 17, 2020, 02:58:46 PM

Just make sure you can prove that they are actually cheating you. Else it will be just a waste of time.

You are right. Indeed, the first thing to do is by showing to the public about the proofs. People won't trust the story if no proof at all. We cannot analyze or learn the case without proof. Also, anyone can say that he made a fake story to drop the reputation of the gambling site if no proofs. So, before telling the people the name of the gambling sites, make sure that having strong proof related to the case.

People shouldn't accuse someone without proofs or evidences that will prove your statement about it. Once you have that, you can now legally accuse someone of illegal actions because he have nothing to do and he can deny it. Cheating is really unfair and that is an illegal approach towards gambling.

Every casino and gambling sites should be fair to its customers so that people will not have a hard time using their platform and having a good image and service will give a good reputation towards a good casino.

Just remember that don't waste your time on some fraud stories or accusations without basis or proof towards a certain gambling sites.

sunsilk

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Quote from: mindrust on June 18, 2020, 04:23:44 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: sunsilk on June 18, 2020, 04:00:09 AM

We're all waiting for you to name the casino. And the fact that you have asked about if it's possible that you have to work with a lawyer considers this involves a probable large amount.

Otherwise, you can talk first to that casino and settle this.

didnt knew that accusing for real requires a lawyer and we all knew that lawyer cost much . if the accused casino fights back , they can always afford to find a good lawyer so chance of winning on them is still slim . settling things first by talking to them directly is the best way to fix the issue but what if a casino is really a scam , they wont still tell the truth right ? best way to ask for other players on the site too if they experience the same thing to cut the cost .

I believe It works like this in these situations:

You find a lawyer and explain the situation. If the lawyer is interested, and wins later,

you and the lawyer will split the prize. If he loses you lose nothing, but i might be wrong with this part.

AFAIK, lawyers won't go for nothing unless you have ties with them and you know them personally. So that could be two deals for them, the payment for the service and splitting of the prize.

But the latter could just be an incentive and the client was happy if the case ends well. I hope that it wouldn't go to that point and OP could fix this along with the unmentioned casino.

Topic: Is this considered cheating? or Ilegal? - page 6. (Read 1168 times)