Is this considered cheating? or Ilegal? - page 5.

panganib999

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Quote from: svelandiag on June 17, 2020, 02:38:31 PM

Hello, This happened to me today, on a provably fair Dice Bitcoin gambling site I lost some money, then I checked my bets using an online verifier, in their website they say they use SHA512 algorithm to hash server seed, however, when they revealed the unhashed server seed I checked it using a SHA512 calculator... It should match the hashed server seed they provided to me, however, it does not match.

So the hashed SHA512 of the server seed is different from the hashed server seed they gave to me when I started my session. Isn't that considered cheating? I mean they probably are calculating right the dice value, however, the only fact of having wrong information on their provably fair statement should be enough for a legal complaint, shouldn't it?

Please someone tell me if it is enough to put some lawyers to work, or if it would be just a waste of time. Thanks!

The first thing that you have done is right since that was really suspicious and since you have tried to check out yourself what's really going on, better do have some contact or conversation with the gambling platform you have played with so that they would take responsible actions and state if there is some error that happened and maybe your bets might be retrieve.

But once there is no response from them and you have a proof about what happen, it might be considered illegal or cheating already since you have done comparison of the first hash you have than the current you used on playing. That will be the time you must seek legal consultation to know what actions you can do to solve the problem.

Debonaire217

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Quote from: svelandiag on June 17, 2020, 02:38:31 PM

So the hashed SHA512 of the server seed is different from the hashed server seed they gave to me when I started my session.

The fact that they are providing the hash of SHA512 for you to verify each of your game is their way to prove that they are providing a probably fair game. This hash is your instrument to check whether the results are completely random based from the very first seed they've provided. Thus, different seed from the Hash is enough for you to contact customer support.

If they verify your claim, you could possibly have a refund since it might be a technical issue from their system. Though, these technical issues are crucial to have big impact to the reputation of the online gambling casino.

FontSeli

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Quote from: smyslov on June 19, 2020, 12:43:06 PM

Quote from: FontSeli on June 19, 2020, 12:04:05 PM

I am surprised that many people used this site and no one noticed the typo. It turns out that no one checked the hash or people somehow guessed what algorithm to use.

This is a very good lead and eye opener to all of us gamblers to check the veracity and validation of the information being posted by gamblers, this could many gambling network to lose credibility if they do not fix it, if it's a typo error then they should correct it and other gambling sites also should check if there are a typo errors, of course we don't want gambling sites we are playing and promoting losing their reputation

It turns out that most people trust gaming sites even if they have the ability to check whether the game is fair. Or are they just careless)

Quote from: johhnyUA on June 19, 2020, 02:01:07 PM

Ahahahahahahahaahah.

this is typical. I would say more - this is normal, for average people to not pay attention to such things. So, OP despite he is not so knowledgeable about sha256/sha512 (there is no need to use "heavy" 512, while we have strong and more easier sha256) he is enough attentive to check his seed.

I certainly wouldn't check the fairness of the game every time. However, I would check the validity of the final hash at least a couple of times.

dothebeats

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The compensation should be worth more, I think, since even though it's just a little typo on their end, you still found something that could have given them unwanted problems. Not much gamblers are really into checking seeds nowadays so I guess they think of it too lightly (and are still not attending to it haha). PD used to be my no. 1 dice site for years up until things seem to feel weird on their supports. Don't get me wrong, they are still trusted and all, but the amount of concern that they have on their customers have recently gone down and it feels like they really don't care at all.

20kevin20

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Quote from: adzino on June 19, 2020, 02:27:17 PM

I guess that was an honest typo, but really? Only $5 as a compensation? That is a big typo to be honest. People can claim that the hashes they were provided were totally invalid. and can probably even sue them. What is more funny is that almost 24 hours have crossed and they still haven't fixed the typo! They are not even taking this typo seriously lol.

PD has changed their behavior compared to what it used to be years ago. Radically, negatively.

I had a lot of referrals on there and earned money off the % from their bets, but after a longer break (probably an year) I rejoined PD only to find everything on my account exactly as it was (statistics and all) but .. my referral earnings!

They argued that upon some server change everything related to referrals "got erased" so they have no idea how many refs/BTC I had before the server change.

I wasn't that upset about it although there could've been some significant amounts of money in there, but now that I see this issue popping up on the forum too & the laughable compensation received.. I guess I'll stay away from now on.

adzino

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Quote from: svelandiag on June 18, 2020, 03:21:37 PM

Okay, the issue happened with PrimeDice, it is very popular, The amount I lost is actually small it's like 0.4BTC and 2ETH... But here are the details of the issue

This is the server seed and the hashed server seed of my bets
-snip-

Their provably fair statement said they were using SHA512 to hash the server seed.
-snip-

This is the hashed result using a SHA512 calculator
-snip-
As you can see the hash doesn't match... I contacted the support demanding an explanation, this is what they answered:
-snip-

Basically they told me it was just a typo issue, they gave me a $5 bonus "for letting them know about the mistake". I just don't understand how they claim to be the #1 Bitcoin gambling site and making these kinds of mistakes in such an important section of their website... That's shady for me, and I definitely will never gamble there again.

I guess that was an honest typo, but really? Only $5 as a compensation? That is a big typo to be honest. People can claim that the hashes they were provided were totally invalid. and can probably even sue them. What is more funny is that almost 24 hours have crossed and they still haven't fixed the typo! They are not even taking this typo seriously lol.

Quote from: Kong Hey Pakboy on June 19, 2020, 12:41:07 AM

Indeed. He should tell the name of the site, so we could help him to make some valid proof that the gambling site he assume that is cheating is true. Instead of calling a lawyer first, he should definitely ask help from other people to make a valid evidence, so that his accusations would not be too embarrassing.

Read rest of the posts or at least the latest posts before posting anything.

johhnyUA

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Quote from: FontSeli on June 19, 2020, 12:04:05 PM

Quote from: johhnyUA on June 19, 2020, 10:50:22 AM

Quote from: FontSeli on June 18, 2020, 05:20:34 PM

They specified an invalid SHA512 algorithm instead of SHA256.
This looks like a typo. Although it does not do honor to such a site.
I rechecked the hash with the SHA256 algorithm and it is really correct:

Meh, in fact it was predictable that all situation will resolve itselfe in such way (though i bet that this was because OP hashed seed as a string)

I am surprised that many people used this site and no one noticed the typo. It turns out that no one checked the hash or people somehow guessed what algorithm to use.

Ahahahahahahahaahah.

this is typical. I would say more - this is normal, for average people to not pay attention to such things. So, OP despite he is not so knowledgeable about sha256/sha512 (there is no need to use "heavy" 512, while we have strong and more easier sha256) he is enough attentive to check his seed.

smyslov

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Quote from: FontSeli on June 19, 2020, 12:04:05 PM

I am surprised that many people used this site and no one noticed the typo. It turns out that no one checked the hash or people somehow guessed what algorithm to use.

This is a very good lead and eye opener to all of us gamblers to check the veracity and validation of the information being posted by gamblers, this could many gambling network to lose credibility if they do not fix it, if it's a typo error then they should correct it and other gambling sites also should check if there are a typo errors, of course we don't want gambling sites we are playing and promoting losing their reputation

FontSeli

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Quote from: Saint-loup on June 19, 2020, 06:38:50 AM

Quote from: FontSeli on June 19, 2020, 06:19:04 AM

It is unpleasant to see a typo on a serious site. It is even more unpleasant if this typo makes you nervous.
However, as we saw, the site can't be called a Scam and the hash they have matched.
Perhaps they should have paid more substantial compensation for the error found and the disturbance caused. It's on their conscience.

I'm not sure about that. They are now clearly aware of the so-called typo but they still haven't fixed it...
If an user is unable to check the fairness of the game with the datas provided by the house, it's a scam to call it a provably fair game.

Do you seriously believe that information about another algorithm was specified intentionally and this information will continue to hang there?

Quote from: johhnyUA on June 19, 2020, 10:50:22 AM

Quote from: FontSeli on June 18, 2020, 05:20:34 PM

They specified an invalid SHA512 algorithm instead of SHA256.
This looks like a typo. Although it does not do honor to such a site.
I rechecked the hash with the SHA256 algorithm and it is really correct:

Meh, in fact it was predictable that all situation will resolve itselfe in such way (though i bet that this was because OP hashed seed as a string)

I am surprised that many people used this site and no one noticed the typo. It turns out that no one checked the hash or people somehow guessed what algorithm to use.

lumeire

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Quote from: svelandiag on June 17, 2020, 02:38:31 PM

Hello, This happened to me today, on a provably fair Dice Bitcoin gambling site I lost some money, then I checked my bets using an online verifier, in their website they say they use SHA512 algorithm to hash server seed, however, when they revealed the unhashed server seed I checked it using a SHA512 calculator... It should match the hashed server seed they provided to me, however, it does not match.

So the hashed SHA512 of the server seed is different from the hashed server seed they gave to me when I started my session. Isn't that considered cheating? I mean they probably are calculating right the dice value, however, the only fact of having wrong information on their provably fair statement should be enough for a legal complaint, shouldn't it?

Please someone tell me if it is enough to put some lawyers to work, or if it would be just a waste of time. Thanks!

You already verified the hash and as it didn't match then it actually means that they intentionally rigged your game to make you loose your bankroll. In past there were many instances when I was having a great winning streak and suddenly a bad loosing streak made me loose my entire bankroll, I used to think that this was just some bad luck, but now after reading your statement I am shocked and started thinking that the online casinos are actually rigged.

johhnyUA

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Quote from: FontSeli on June 18, 2020, 05:20:34 PM

They specified an invalid SHA512 algorithm instead of SHA256.
This looks like a typo. Although it does not do honor to such a site.
I rechecked the hash with the SHA256 algorithm and it is really correct:

Meh, in fact it was predictable that all situation will resolve itselfe in such way (though i bet that this was because OP hashed seed as a string)

Quote from: Saint-loup on June 19, 2020, 06:38:50 AM

I'm not sure about that. They are now clearly aware of the so-called typo but they still haven't fixed it...
If an user is unable to check the fairness of the game with the datas provided by the house, it's a scam to call it a provably fair game.

Dude, only one day passed, give them some time.

Onuohakk

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It makes no sense of inviting a lawyer over for the case, if the money you lose is not that much. Just call their customer care service to report the issue, maybe they'll tell you where the fault is coming from . The issue should be settle amicably without much beef.
Every gambling site wouldn't want to lose their customers for a little misunderstanding that can corrected easily

Saint-loup

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Quote from: FontSeli on June 19, 2020, 06:19:04 AM

It is unpleasant to see a typo on a serious site. It is even more unpleasant if this typo makes you nervous.
However, as we saw, the site can't be called a Scam and the hash they have matched.
Perhaps they should have paid more substantial compensation for the error found and the disturbance caused. It's on their conscience.

I'm not sure about that. They are now clearly aware of the so-called typo but they still haven't fixed it...
If an user is unable to check the fairness of the game with the datas provided by the house, it's a scam to call it a provably fair game.

FontSeli

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Quote from: maydna on June 18, 2020, 08:09:35 PM

Quote from: FontSeli on June 18, 2020, 05:20:34 PM

They specified an invalid SHA512 algorithm instead of SHA256.
This looks like a typo. Although it does not do honor to such a site.
I rechecked the hash with the SHA256 algorithm and it is really correct:

Based on your check, it was clear that the hash with the SHA256 algorithm is correct, so the @OP should understand now, and he won't have a problem now. I think it is normal to see a typo on a website because it's happening on many websites out there, not just on one website. And the good news here is he gets a $5 bonus from the site because he shows a typo on their website. I think the gambling website which has a reputation will not do something or cheat people, and if someone can show the bugs or typo or something like that, the site will give a bonus for that person.

Quote from: svelandiag on June 18, 2020, 08:07:56 PM

Yeah, I mean... You can't imagine what I felt when the hash didn't match when performing the verification... I mean this is very serious for their reputation... If they can't maintain updated one of the most important sections of their site, can you imagine their security? anti-hack? their programming? wow, a lot to think. Think twice before depositing your crypto there.

By the way, the fact They treated me like a kid or a beggar asking for pennies with that $5 bonus is disrespectful, I was gambling MUCH more than that... Crazy, BIG thumbs down for that fallacious, misleading and shady site.

Perhaps, you can play on the other website and get a new experience from playing on the other gambling website. Somehow, I agree with your say that we need to think twice before depositing our crypto.

It is unpleasant to see a typo on a serious site. It is even more unpleasant if this typo makes you nervous.
However, as we saw, the site can't be called a Scam and the hash they have matched.
Perhaps they should have paid more substantial compensation for the error found and the disturbance caused. It's on their conscience.

Kong Hey Pakboy

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Quote from: AakZaki on June 18, 2020, 01:55:11 PM

it would be nice if you say what site you mean so that colleagues here review the truth. that way you can save friends who try gambling sites that you mean.
here you cannot be fully trusted if you do not show any evidence, even if you make several lawyers handle your case if there is no valid evidence I think it will be a waste of time.

Indeed. He should tell the name of the site, so we could help him to make some valid proof that the gambling site he assume that is cheating is true. Instead of calling a lawyer first, he should definitely ask help from other people to make a valid evidence, so that his accusations would not be too embarrassing.

btc_angela

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Quote from: svelandiag on June 18, 2020, 08:07:56 PM

Quote

Thank you for having shown these evidences.
Their statement was clearly inaccurate, fallacious and misleading and your report clearly deserved a bigger compensation than 5$ in bonus. It's a serious matter even if they didn't cheat you in the strict sense of the term.

Yeah, I mean... You can't imagine what I felt when the hash didn't match when performing the verification... I mean this is very serious for their reputation... If they can't maintain updated one of the most important sections of their site, can you imagine their security? anti-hack? their programming? wow, a lot to think. Think twice before depositing your crypto there.

I can feel you mate, I was once a 'victim', it's not a big money that I gamble and loss. I'm just disappointed when I verify everything because I thought I got cheated. Anyways, I move on already.

Quote from: svelandiag on June 18, 2020, 08:07:56 PM

By the way, the fact They treated me like a kid or a beggar asking for pennies with that $5 bonus is disrespectful, I was gambling MUCH more than that... Crazy, BIG thumbs down for that fallacious, misleading and shady site.

It's about time you go and check other sites as well, as I have said simply move on try something new. Doesn't matter about the feel and experience, just learn from that experience. Best of luck.

maydna

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Quote from: FontSeli on June 18, 2020, 05:20:34 PM

They specified an invalid SHA512 algorithm instead of SHA256.
This looks like a typo. Although it does not do honor to such a site.
I rechecked the hash with the SHA256 algorithm and it is really correct:

Based on your check, it was clear that the hash with the SHA256 algorithm is correct, so the @OP should understand now, and he won't have a problem now. I think it is normal to see a typo on a website because it's happening on many websites out there, not just on one website. And the good news here is he gets a $5 bonus from the site because he shows a typo on their website. I think the gambling website which has a reputation will not do something or cheat people, and if someone can show the bugs or typo or something like that, the site will give a bonus for that person.

Quote from: svelandiag on June 18, 2020, 08:07:56 PM

Yeah, I mean... You can't imagine what I felt when the hash didn't match when performing the verification... I mean this is very serious for their reputation... If they can't maintain updated one of the most important sections of their site, can you imagine their security? anti-hack? their programming? wow, a lot to think. Think twice before depositing your crypto there.

By the way, the fact They treated me like a kid or a beggar asking for pennies with that $5 bonus is disrespectful, I was gambling MUCH more than that... Crazy, BIG thumbs down for that fallacious, misleading and shady site.

Perhaps, you can play on the other website and get a new experience from playing on the other gambling website. Somehow, I agree with your say that we need to think twice before depositing our crypto.

svelandiag

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Quote

Thank you for having shown these evidences.
Their statement was clearly inaccurate, fallacious and misleading and your report clearly deserved a bigger compensation than 5$ in bonus. It's a serious matter even if they didn't cheat you in the strict sense of the term.

Yeah, I mean... You can't imagine what I felt when the hash didn't match when performing the verification... I mean this is very serious for their reputation... If they can't maintain updated one of the most important sections of their site, can you imagine their security? anti-hack? their programming? wow, a lot to think. Think twice before depositing your crypto there.

By the way, the fact They treated me like a kid or a beggar asking for pennies with that $5 bonus is disrespectful, I was gambling MUCH more than that... Crazy, BIG thumbs down for that fallacious, misleading and shady site.

Saint-loup

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Quote from: svelandiag on June 18, 2020, 03:21:37 PM

Okay, the issue happened with PrimeDice, it is very popular, The amount I lost is actually small it's like 0.4BTC and 2ETH... But here are the details of the issue

This is the server seed and the hashed server seed of my bets
https://i.imgur.com/eAo9lTE.png

Their provably fair statement said they were using SHA512 to hash the server seed.
https://i.imgur.com/gwaSzzIg.png

This is the hashed result using a SHA512 calculator
https://i.imgur.com/HjIzbfR.png

As you can see the hash doesn't match... I contacted the support demanding an explanation, this is what they answered:
https://i.imgur.com/QEdzC6H.png

Basically they told me it was just a typo issue, they gave me a $5 bonus "for letting them know about the mistake". I just don't understand how they claim to be the #1 Bitcoin gambling site and making these kinds of mistakes in such an important section of their website... That's shady for me, and I definitely will never gamble there again.

Thank you for having shown these evidences.
Their statement was clearly inaccurate, fallacious and misleading and your report clearly deserved a bigger compensation than 5$ in bonus. It's a serious matter even if they didn't cheat you in the strict sense of the term.

FontSeli

hero member

Activity: 1232

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Quote from: svelandiag on June 18, 2020, 03:21:37 PM

Okay, the issue happened with PrimeDice, it is very popular, The amount I lost is actually small it's like 0.4BTC and 2ETH... But here are the details of the issue

This is the server seed and the hashed server seed of my bets

Their provably fair statement said they were using SHA512 to hash the server seed.

This is the hashed result using a SHA512 calculator

As you can see the hash doesn't match... I contacted the support demanding an explanation, this is what they answered:

Basically they told me it was just a typo issue, they gave me a $5 bonus "for letting them know about the mistake". I just don't understand how they claim to be the #1 Bitcoin gambling site and making these kinds of mistakes in such an important section of their website... That's shady for me, and I definitely will never gamble there again.

They specified an invalid SHA512 algorithm instead of SHA256.
This looks like a typo. Although it does not do honor to such a site.
I rechecked the hash with the SHA256 algorithm and it is really correct:

Topic: Is this considered cheating? or Ilegal? - page 5. (Read 1168 times)