Topic: Israel: Operation Protective Edge - page 4. (Read 14723 times)

I have, but I also base my opinions on more than anecdotal evidence.

The current ceasefire has the same conditionals and elements in it (and then some more on top of them) that Israel never fully implemented in the 2012 ceasefire despite a halt to rocket attacks. With the pressure that Netanyahu is getting from conservatives, I can't see Israel living up to this ceasefire which is likely way over ambitious, especially when it comes to the mandated later talks and dependency on a second round of successful negotiations.

Who corrected it? Hamas? Nope.And that's the problem.

I say it wouldn't work because I honestly don't see how it could. Before we were talking about a business leader in charge of the PA, here you are advocating one in Gaza. That wouldn't change anything in Gaza, how could it? It wouldn't change the farming and fishing crisis, the crisis of medical supplies, fuel, or cash, the salinity and water crisis, it wouldn't end the blockade. I'm not sure how you would see such a leader in Gaza as making a big difference. Israel has been pretty consistent in its treatment of Gaza regardless of how peaceful or violent Hamas acts.

So a couple of things here:

1.) Hamas has tried peace via a ceasefire in which it did a good job at controlling third party groups. It simply didn't pay off for Hamas which saw its fishing rights cut during this time (in violation of the 2012 ceasefire deal), and Gaza crossings routinely closed (also in violation of the 2012 ceasefire deal). The fighting here was a direct result of the failure of the peace process with Hamas and a failure to live up to ceasefire obligations by Netanyahu's Administration (and due to the Sisi takeover of Egypt). You want them to condemn all violence? Fine I'd honestly like that too, but what would it get them? Where is the evidence that it would in any way improve situations in Gaza or for the Palestinians?

2.) Abbas has tried this exact tract in the West Bank only to be met with a failure by Israel to live up to any of its West Bank specific peace plan promises, a slow death of Palestinian statehood through settlement expansion, and political unrest as Abbas and his allies are labeled puppets of Israel or at the very least complicit in the face of ongoing Israeli abuse, discrimination, and violence. Israel has demonstrated quite visibly in the West Bank that condemning violence doesn't net Palestinians anything other than fewer bombs being dropped on them. They have provided little incentive for peace.

To be perfectly straightforward, it was this violence that has led Israel to a ceasefire that actually addressed some of Gaza's grievances. So as distasteful and immoral as we both find it; the simple fact is that it worked. Israel has created a situation where the only paths that pay dividends are ones of violence.

As far as the NPR link goes, after reading it here I see that the source is Saleh al-Arouri; which would mean that the attack did not stem from Hamas leadership in Gaza, but rather more likely through an exile chain operating independently in the West Bank and directed from Turkey (where he lives).

But even here there isn't evidence of it being directed even from Turkey. All he said in his statement was that Al Qassam Brigade members carried it out, which we already knew, it was merely determined that they were operating alone and not under the direction of Hamas (by the Israeli police chief of the area and by independent analysts). While this douche bag is praising them, he did not actually state that he or Hamas in Gaza ordered the attack. Which of course makes the NPR headline a bit misleading.

I don't think he could do worse. And if done properly, it could work quite well. Surviving the change would be pretty difficult, of course.

To this I would respond that you should check around for what various people interviewed in Gaza had to say about the public executions. They make my case. Obviously there are many differences within any group. But on this, they are the victims of their upbringing...including schools and culture. They say the wrong things. Israelis do the same things, but media generally makes the Israelis who are into the violence look like the rare loon.

I disagree. What Israel is doing is inexcusable. And here you keep treating them as one group. They aren't. Hamas is self interested. No surprise there. We can either accept that reality and move forward with talks realizing this or we can never have peace. So far Israel has opted for the latter.

http://www.npr.org/2014/08/22/342318...-israeli-teens
A third option is to condemn all violence. Israel cannot really go all offensive if they have no cover of rocket fire or kidnappings or whatever to make it look good.

Right, but they goad them by blatantly violating the terms of the ceasefire and threatening to destroy them anyway by doing so. Hamas as two options in that case: 1.) Disappear 2.) Launch rockets and fight in the hopes of forcing a reprieve through new ceasefire terms and international attention.

I think i said it all by calling Hamas mindless killers,they just kill,even their own people,they have no strategy ..........

I don't get your point in relation to the article posted, can you elaborate some more please ?

http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Co...-Israel-371952

And this is why I believe Hamas is going to continue to look like mindless killers to the US. Some of them are mindless killers; the question is why. Disliking Hamas shouldn't blind people to everything else. I know it can, but only because people want to be small.