It takes years to build a reputation and seconds to break it - page 3.

Betwrong

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Quote from: South Park on August 08, 2021, 02:43:08 PM

~ so if anyone is out there gambling professionally or using a lot of money then they need to read the TOS of all the casinos in which they play to avoid that scenario happening to them.

That's right, but imo gambling sites should also care about those gamblers who don't read the TOS. It wouldn't hurt if a user was warned about possible problems with withdrawing before he/she was provided with a deposit address. I mean, I know that the warning is there somewhere in TOS, but what I'd suggest is that when clicking DEPOSIT, you don't see the address, but you see the warning first.

crzy

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Quote from: tippytoes on August 04, 2021, 06:19:35 PM

Quote from: aioc on August 04, 2021, 05:17:09 PM

Quote from: mu_enrico on July 30, 2021, 09:52:46 AM

I've been listening to a podcast about online casino scam and they said outright scam (rogue casino) is getting less frequent these days. Nowadays, it's more about soft scam when the casino trick users without they realize. For example, registration bonus, or any type bonus with complicated requirement. Pending withdrawal so that impatient user will play and got busted (instead of withdrawing the money), etc.

I've tasted this soft scam and yeah, I don't trust the casino after that incident.

This is one of the reasons why they delay the withdrawal by asking too many requirements they know that the player will take a chance while waiting for their requirement to get approve, so they will not get reported scamming you and not letting you withdraw because in the first place there's no funds to withdraw, the best action is to not use that funds or do not play at all until they resolve the issue if they will not let you withdraw or takes a lot of time to decide your issue then they will be reported as a scam site.

And you will be screwed if you forgot to read their ToS, and you will find out that you are not complying one of their conditions. That's when they can get advantage of you. So before playing big, make sure to read their terms especially those that are important requirements before withdrawal. Also, from time to time, read their terms as sometimes they update without informing their players.

Reading the ToS might be boring because of the length of words but if can be a big help to you and it can prevent you from making mistakes, so better to have time for this one. Building a good reputation is not easy at all, they work on it but still some gambling site are still committing a mistake to scam people especially if they start not pay the players, that could be the first warning to you.

South Park

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Quote from: tippytoes on August 04, 2021, 06:19:35 PM

Quote from: aioc on August 04, 2021, 05:17:09 PM

Quote from: mu_enrico on July 30, 2021, 09:52:46 AM

I've been listening to a podcast about online casino scam and they said outright scam (rogue casino) is getting less frequent these days. Nowadays, it's more about soft scam when the casino trick users without they realize. For example, registration bonus, or any type bonus with complicated requirement. Pending withdrawal so that impatient user will play and got busted (instead of withdrawing the money), etc.

I've tasted this soft scam and yeah, I don't trust the casino after that incident.

This is one of the reasons why they delay the withdrawal by asking too many requirements they know that the player will take a chance while waiting for their requirement to get approve, so they will not get reported scamming you and not letting you withdraw because in the first place there's no funds to withdraw, the best action is to not use that funds or do not play at all until they resolve the issue if they will not let you withdraw or takes a lot of time to decide your issue then they will be reported as a scam site.

And you will be screwed if you forgot to read their ToS, and you will find out that you are not complying one of their conditions. That's when they can get advantage of you. So before playing big, make sure to read their terms especially those that are important requirements before withdrawal. Also, from time to time, read their terms as sometimes they update without informing their players.

This is important, sometimes in the forum we see players complaining they were scammed by a casino but when you begin to dig out what happened you can see they violated a part of the TOS and that the rules in the TOS are not predatory and as such the casino is on the right, so if anyone is out there gambling professionally or using a lot of money then they need to read the TOS of all the casinos in which they play to avoid that scenario happening to them.

tippytoes

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Quote from: aioc on August 04, 2021, 05:17:09 PM

Quote from: mu_enrico on July 30, 2021, 09:52:46 AM

I've been listening to a podcast about online casino scam and they said outright scam (rogue casino) is getting less frequent these days. Nowadays, it's more about soft scam when the casino trick users without they realize. For example, registration bonus, or any type bonus with complicated requirement. Pending withdrawal so that impatient user will play and got busted (instead of withdrawing the money), etc.

I've tasted this soft scam and yeah, I don't trust the casino after that incident.

This is one of the reasons why they delay the withdrawal by asking too many requirements they know that the player will take a chance while waiting for their requirement to get approve, so they will not get reported scamming you and not letting you withdraw because in the first place there's no funds to withdraw, the best action is to not use that funds or do not play at all until they resolve the issue if they will not let you withdraw or takes a lot of time to decide your issue then they will be reported as a scam site.

And you will be screwed if you forgot to read their ToS, and you will find out that you are not complying one of their conditions. That's when they can get advantage of you. So before playing big, make sure to read their terms especially those that are important requirements before withdrawal. Also, from time to time, read their terms as sometimes they update without informing their players.

aioc

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Quote from: mu_enrico on July 30, 2021, 09:52:46 AM

I've been listening to a podcast about online casino scam and they said outright scam (rogue casino) is getting less frequent these days. Nowadays, it's more about soft scam when the casino trick users without they realize. For example, registration bonus, or any type bonus with complicated requirement. Pending withdrawal so that impatient user will play and got busted (instead of withdrawing the money), etc.

I've tasted this soft scam and yeah, I don't trust the casino after that incident.

This is one of the reasons why they delay the withdrawal by asking too many requirements they know that the player will take a chance while waiting for their requirement to get approve, so they will not get reported scamming you and not letting you withdraw because in the first place there's no funds to withdraw, the best action is to not use that funds or do not play at all until they resolve the issue if they will not let you withdraw or takes a lot of time to decide your issue then they will be reported as a scam site.

Fatunad

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Quote from: palle11 on July 26, 2021, 05:31:36 AM

Quote from: AicecreaME on July 20, 2021, 08:12:54 AM

A well trusted casino turning out to be a scam in the end is like 1 out of 1,000,000 chances.

It is really a slim chance to happen except when they are closing up and announcement would have been made to customers because they have built friendship and among empire of people and they might reopen in the future. Reputation is like the check you have to withdraw money from the bank, a bounce check is definitely a bad money just like a bad reputation does not yield good proceed.

Once trust would be broken then it would really be hard to get it back when users or the community would able to experience shady activities or simply doing not being fair issues.
Building trust isnt something that can be done in few months time but it would take couple of years and you wont able to sustain if you dont know on how to handle your business
in the first place. Retaining users would be depending on the perks and bonuses that you do offer and of course with other factors as well like design and good user experience.
When you are making a business then this would be your main priority.,

South Park

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Quote from: nelson4lov on August 01, 2021, 08:06:42 AM

Quote from: mu_enrico on July 30, 2021, 09:52:46 AM

I've been listening to a podcast about online casino scam and they said outright scam (rogue casino) is getting less frequent these days. Nowadays, it's more about soft scam when the casino trick users without they realize. For example, registration bonus, or any type bonus with complicated requirement. Pending withdrawal so that impatient user will play and got busted (instead of withdrawing the money), etc.

I've tasted this soft scam and yeah, I don't trust the casino after that incident.

I haven't seen any legit casino that has been around for a long time using tricks like this to taken advantage of their users although, I've heard of sportsbook that change the dynamics of bet closer to the end or after the bet has been placed regardless of whether the user is winning or not. That's an unethical move and is usually frown upon. Sportsbook like 1xbet and 1xbit ( dunno if it's same company) usually indulge in soft act.

The reason these casino scams got reduced is because of the increase in the number of legit ones. You'd be so busy with casinos and sportsbook like stake and sportsbet that you wouldn't have time to try out these other casinos that have such practices up their sleeves.

The gambling industry has a lot of competition and this means that casinos that tried some kind of shady moves against their clients are not going to remain in business for long, I know that there are some casinos out there that have a very bad reputation in the forum and they are still around but they are the minority, the rest of the casinos cannot afford to do this and it is better to just be honest and treat their clients with respect and give them exactly what they want, this is why we have good casinos in this market that will never think of scamming their customers and instead are always thinking about how to give them the best experience possible so they keep coming back.

paxmao

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Quote from: molsewid on July 26, 2021, 10:31:45 AM

Quote from: blockman on July 26, 2021, 03:26:54 AM

Reputation can be built but you need a long time for it to be established and that's why if it got to be stained, that's hard to be rebuilt and people who trusted that casino will have a hard time getting back the trust of the people. It is an important factor to us gamblers to get into the trustworthy casino that we've known for a long time. And that's why if there is some bashing from unknown people that tries to pull down the reputation of the casino we believe in, it's hard to believe those if we've been trusting them for years and if that person trying to destroy the reputation just came by and new.

It is not easy to build a good reputation if it is associated with business especially gambling business. I mean gambling is a legal tender in every country but there are issues that focused on gambling which can ruin a ggod image that the gambling business are trying to break. That is why it takes years to build a reputation but because of the competition of gambling businesses today the possibility to bring down other reputation is likely to happen. But on the other hand once a gambling business already established their reputation it is somehow hard to bring it down by some speculations without proof.

It should not be that difficult. At the end of the day, reputation, as defined by games theory, is an element that appears when the transactions are recurrent or when multiple transactions are expected along time between two parties. It would be very rare that you would only transact once with a gambling site, so each time you get a good experience and get paid as promised, or can withdraw you funds successfully the site is building its reputation. TBH, you just need to do things as they should to gain reputation.

btc78

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Quote from: Alisha-k on July 28, 2021, 01:43:35 PM

Quote from: Chato1977 on June 30, 2021, 06:50:04 AM

Reputation is nothing when we talk about money , even how long they build the reputation and name but there is an involving High amount means the money will be the main objective and the reputation may seems to be not existing .

I don't really get your point here but money is the main reason people have disputes it revolves around money since gamblers only file complain about how their funds were miscalculated, overcharged, unable tonwihdraw and other related issues relating to gambling companies and funds. It's really difficult building trust and reputation but very easy to rub it on the mud

I believe that what he meant is that reputation is nothing if big money is involved , means the reputation that the site helps build in for long years but when they are facing losses in their company and there is a shining money then they will risk that said reputation.
maybe better to look after your Signature campaign and that will tells you what reputation means and how this can be nothing to exist if money is involved.
because your banner company is facing tons of problems yet continuing the operation as if nothing is happening .

Betwrong

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Quote from: mu_enrico on July 30, 2021, 09:52:46 AM

I've been listening to a podcast about online casino scam and they said outright scam (rogue casino) is getting less frequent these days. Nowadays, it's more about soft scam when the casino trick users without they realize. For example, registration bonus, or any type bonus with complicated requirement. Pending withdrawal so that impatient user will play and got busted (instead of withdrawing the money), etc.

I've tasted this soft scam and yeah, I don't trust the casino after that incident.

It's good we have plenty of them to choose from. Indeed this "soft scam", as you call it, happens all the time on various platforms, especially on the newly appeared ones, and it's annoying. I remember playing poker several hours per day, for like 2-3 weeks in a row, earning dust in free rolls, but still my balance was around $80 eventually. When I tried to withdraw it appeared that it was never their intention to give away the money. I was lucky because I didn't deposit, so it was kind of a "soft scam" for me, but still I wasn't happy about the whole thing, and left the site for good. Later the site vanished, and I actually don't think they made a lot of money. They were just wasting time, theirs and ours. But at least, we, players, were having fun playing poker.

nelson4lov

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Quote from: mu_enrico on July 30, 2021, 09:52:46 AM

I've been listening to a podcast about online casino scam and they said outright scam (rogue casino) is getting less frequent these days. Nowadays, it's more about soft scam when the casino trick users without they realize. For example, registration bonus, or any type bonus with complicated requirement. Pending withdrawal so that impatient user will play and got busted (instead of withdrawing the money), etc.

I've tasted this soft scam and yeah, I don't trust the casino after that incident.

I haven't seen any legit casino that has been around for a long time using tricks like this to taken advantage of their users although, I've heard of sportsbook that change the dynamics of bet closer to the end or after the bet has been placed regardless of whether the user is winning or not. That's an unethical move and is usually frown upon. Sportsbook like 1xbet and 1xbit ( dunno if it's same company) usually indulge in soft act.

The reason these casino scams got reduced is because of the increase in the number of legit ones. You'd be so busy with casinos and sportsbook like stake and sportsbet that you wouldn't have time to try out these other casinos that have such practices up their sleeves.

passwordnow

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Quote from: Alisha-k on July 28, 2021, 01:43:35 PM

Quote from: Chato1977 on June 30, 2021, 06:50:04 AM

Reputation is nothing when we talk about money , even how long they build the reputation and name but there is an involving High amount means the money will be the main objective and the reputation may seems to be not existing .

I don't really get your point here but money is the main reason people have disputes it revolves around money since gamblers only file complain about how their funds were miscalculated, overcharged, unable tonwihdraw and other related issues relating to gambling companies and funds. It's really difficult building trust and reputation but very easy to rub it on the mud

And if the complain is for the well reputed casino then that's hard to prove the point especially if the casino has already given a statement that they've given all the house rules of their casino towards someone's complain about withdrawal or any miscalculation.
They can justify the answer for those complains and that's why some even they're reputable, they have to protect themselves from such complainants that have that type of personality that complains almost everything.

South Park

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Quote from: Quintrix on July 25, 2021, 07:28:13 PM

Quote from: Woodie on June 25, 2021, 03:26:35 AM

For a business to build a reputation, it takes a lot of money and time to be invested to achieve this through marketing, brand awareness and all other activities.

But my question is why would they risk all they have invested to a few players by scamming them? I for one know the forum will side with the player that have been allegedly being scammed in most cases but how do casino's/bookies protect themselves if not terms and conditions?

If people buy reviews to paint a picture of a good standing business, what would stop the competition from buying people to tarnish a competitors reputation to have an advantage in the business?

That is why the complainant must post all the posts and screenshots to verify all his accusations, you don't post here that you got scam with only words with no valid proofs to show the weight is always on the complainants and if he is posting he better make sure that he did not or have no intention to break the rules, it goes on who can show a better proof, for gamblers that he did not break any rules, for operators that the player is guilty of violating the rules and TOS.

This is important, when it comes to social media it is enough to say something for most people to believe it is true, this has been used by some malicious people to try to affect the reputation of their competitors, but in this forum evidence is king, it does not matter if an established member of the community says something if a newbie can present evidence that the casino in question scammed them and he did not violated the rules then the community is going to side with him and red tag or even flag the casino that is misbehaving.

mu_enrico

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I've been listening to a podcast about online casino scam and they said outright scam (rogue casino) is getting less frequent these days. Nowadays, it's more about soft scam when the casino trick users without they realize. For example, registration bonus, or any type bonus with complicated requirement. Pending withdrawal so that impatient user will play and got busted (instead of withdrawing the money), etc.

I've tasted this soft scam and yeah, I don't trust the casino after that incident.

Betwrong

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Quote from: ReiMomo on July 25, 2021, 01:49:13 PM

Quote from: KTChampions on July 24, 2021, 04:46:54 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on July 24, 2021, 03:24:38 AM

Quote from: KTChampions on July 22, 2021, 05:53:14 AM

This will not save you from scammers in any way. If the management decides to cheat the players, it will do it, but different tricks will be applied than if it were a casino without regulation. For example, a "hack" will be made when all funds of the casino and players are "stolen". This has already happened with many exchanges, this is a common algorithm.

Such things often used to be the case with darknet markets on the dark web, but I don't think it would be easy to get away with it on the clearnet, especially when the site is registered and properly regulated. Imo, trying to exitscam is suicide for the management of a gambling site because it's almost guaranteed that the truth will come out after a proper investigation.

This happens all the time in crypto projects, especially crypto exchanges (I don't know how you evaluate them as a dark market or as a clearnet), the last example is the Livecoin exchange. Where cryptocurrency is used, such a scenario is very likely, since even despite the transparency of the blockchain, it is almost impossible to return the stolen funds.

I have come across Binance paying back to those whose money was hacked. This was genuine. But why should an exchange like Livecoin cheat its investors by hacking. Why dont such exchanges work on things to built its business and retain its investors / customers. Is it that they dont take risk in spending more money to built them up. It would usually take time to stand in the market. Do they fail to stand firm since they scam from the beginning

This is about beliefs. Unfortunately there are still people living in the past in their heads. They haven't noticed that the world has changed a lot since the "dog eat dog" times. You don't have to be at war with everyone around to succeed these days. Rather, you should participate in mutually beneficial cooperation. But if you are retarded, and you want to be at war, you exitscam all your customers or perform a selective scamming.

Thankfully, the army of retards is becoming smaller and smaller with time.

Alisha-k

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Quote from: Chato1977 on June 30, 2021, 06:50:04 AM

Reputation is nothing when we talk about money , even how long they build the reputation and name but there is an involving High amount means the money will be the main objective and the reputation may seems to be not existing .

I don't really get your point here but money is the main reason people have disputes it revolves around money since gamblers only file complain about how their funds were miscalculated, overcharged, unable tonwihdraw and other related issues relating to gambling companies and funds. It's really difficult building trust and reputation but very easy to rub it on the mud

panjul07

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Quote from: AicecreaME on July 20, 2021, 08:12:54 AM

A well trusted casino turning out to be a scam in the end is like 1 out of 1,000,000 chances.

It is true that the chance of those reputable casinos turn to be scam is so small but we have been warned with some facts in this crypto industry.
For those who have not known, there are few names for this case where reputable casinos turn into scam.
They are Betking and Safedice. Both were reputable sites for years but turned into scam with different cases.
Betking turn to a scam after their ICO and Safedice is still unknown since there is no speicific information why the owner/admin gone.
Yeah, I hope there will be no more cases like those two sites in the future.

hahay

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Quote from: palle11 on July 26, 2021, 05:31:36 AM

Quote from: AicecreaME on July 20, 2021, 08:12:54 AM

A well trusted casino turning out to be a scam in the end is like 1 out of 1,000,000 chances.

It is really a slim chance to happen except when they are closing up and announcement would have been made to customers because they have built friendship and among empire of people and they might reopen in the future. Reputation is like the check you have to withdraw money from the bank, a bounce check is definitely a bad money just like a bad reputation does not yield good proceed.

If they shut down the service by providing information first, then even if they close it won't destroy their reputation. Unless they close the service without any notification, if that is the case then it will certainly result in a lot of customer money being trapped and then they disappear which is clearly a scammer. Building a reputation is difficult, but destroying it is very easy. So the concern is about keeping that reputation attached to their service, because just one mistake that happened at least was enough to make the reputation drop a bit.

Zilon

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Quote from: bitzizzix on June 25, 2021, 08:19:34 AM

Reputation can be damaged not only because of a scam but there are also those who want to bring down the gambling site or whatever for reasons of unacceptable big losses, mistakes from the site or themselves and also competition and so on.

You have a point mostly by gamblers who must have had repeated losses on a particular site and wishes to drag them to the mud. And those victims can decide to go any length just to make sure the tanish the image of the gambling site

Quote

this is where we have to be smart to judge if there are suspicious indications on every site that we follow and investigate the truth so as not to misjudge and also anticipate if it is a scam.

Most users fail to investigate a matter the just jump into conclusion. Misjudging a site without due investigation shouldn't be called for. In most cases this sites happen to be very innocent of some accusations but because due research isn't carried out the reputation of such company might be tanished and it's always difficult to retrieve back and will result in lossing lots of customers

goinmerry

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Quote from: molsewid on July 26, 2021, 10:31:45 AM

but because of the competition of gambling businesses today the possibility to bring down other reputation is likely to happen.

It could be but it needs strong proof of being a bad gambling site before people will believe in any negative claims.

It's not easy to take down other site's reputations without a solid basis.

That's why instead of throwing negative shots at their competitors in an attempt to ruin the reputation of a certain site, new site owners just have to make sure to operate legally and true to their clients so that even slowly they can build their own reputation.

Topic: It takes years to build a reputation and seconds to break it - page 3. (Read 3378 times)