Topic: Just-Dice.com : Invest in 1% House Edge Dice Game - page 18. (Read 435457 times)
Disgusting. Was in a crowd of people when I clicked that link.
For the gambler provably fair only means you have a tool to verify your bets. If they were skipping nonces, changing server seeds, etc you would still be cheated. Only if you check all your bets, you can find out that you were (or not) cheated.
For the investor there is no way at all to verify anything. In theory it is very easy for the owner to fake a winning whale with the server seeds (or just small winners .. every day.) I actually started a discussion about that https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/provably-fair-for-investors-774458 "Provably fair for investors?", but the only solutions so far are not really provably fair, just slightly less risk.
For the investor there is no way at all to verify anything. In theory it is very easy for the owner to fake a winning whale with the server seeds (or just small winners .. every day.) I actually started a discussion about that https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/provably-fair-for-investors-774458 "Provably fair for investors?", but the only solutions so far are not really provably fair, just slightly less risk.
Thanks, this is an interesting, and I think, more pressing problem.
Attempts to cheat the gamblers are always detectable, whereas attempts to cheat the investors are not. If whoever inserted the dicebitco.in skipping code had simply stolen the server seed and cheated more subtly, we'd be no wiser today and simply wondering about the string of bad luck.
It would be interesting to look at the Bitcoin gambling sites that allow investment and look at the return on investment : is it always less than the expected return?
Doge-dice.com was great than expected if I recall.
For the gambler provably fair only means you have a tool to verify your bets. If they were skipping nonces, changing server seeds, etc you would still be cheated. Only if you check all your bets, you can find out that you were (or not) cheated.
For the investor there is no way at all to verify anything. In theory it is very easy for the owner to fake a winning whale with the server seeds (or just small winners .. every day.) I actually started a discussion about that https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/provably-fair-for-investors-774458 "Provably fair for investors?", but the only solutions so far are not really provably fair, just slightly less risk.
For the investor there is no way at all to verify anything. In theory it is very easy for the owner to fake a winning whale with the server seeds (or just small winners .. every day.) I actually started a discussion about that https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/provably-fair-for-investors-774458 "Provably fair for investors?", but the only solutions so far are not really provably fair, just slightly less risk.
Thanks, this is an interesting, and I think, more pressing problem.
Attempts to cheat the gamblers are always detectable, whereas attempts to cheat the investors are not. If whoever inserted the dicebitco.in skipping code had simply stolen the server seed and cheated more subtly, we'd be no wiser today and simply wondering about the string of bad luck.
It would be interesting to look at the Bitcoin gambling sites that allow investment and look at the return on investment : is it always less than the expected return?
But you have to take into account variance. Just Dice was at much less than the expected profit, and I find unlikely that Dooglus was scamming us.
For the gambler provably fair only means you have a tool to verify your bets. If they were skipping nonces, changing server seeds, etc you would still be cheated. Only if you check all your bets, you can find out that you were (or not) cheated.
For the investor there is no way at all to verify anything. In theory it is very easy for the owner to fake a winning whale with the server seeds (or just small winners .. every day.) I actually started a discussion about that https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/provably-fair-for-investors-774458 "Provably fair for investors?", but the only solutions so far are not really provably fair, just slightly less risk.
For the investor there is no way at all to verify anything. In theory it is very easy for the owner to fake a winning whale with the server seeds (or just small winners .. every day.) I actually started a discussion about that https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/provably-fair-for-investors-774458 "Provably fair for investors?", but the only solutions so far are not really provably fair, just slightly less risk.
Thanks, this is an interesting, and I think, more pressing problem.
Attempts to cheat the gamblers are always detectable, whereas attempts to cheat the investors are not. If whoever inserted the dicebitco.in skipping code had simply stolen the server seed and cheated more subtly, we'd be no wiser today and simply wondering about the string of bad luck.
It would be interesting to look at the Bitcoin gambling sites that allow investment and look at the return on investment : is it always less than the expected return?
For the gambler provably fair only means you have a tool to verify your bets. If they were skipping nonces, changing server seeds, etc you would still be cheated. Only if you check all your bets, you can find out that you were (or not) cheated.
For the investor there is no way at all to verify anything. In theory it is very easy for the owner to fake a winning whale with the server seeds (or just small winners .. every day.) I actually started a discussion about that https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/provably-fair-for-investors-774458 "Provably fair for investors?", but the only solutions so far are not really provably fair, just slightly less risk.
For the investor there is no way at all to verify anything. In theory it is very easy for the owner to fake a winning whale with the server seeds (or just small winners .. every day.) I actually started a discussion about that https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/provably-fair-for-investors-774458 "Provably fair for investors?", but the only solutions so far are not really provably fair, just slightly less risk.
Thanks, this is an interesting, and I think, more pressing problem.
Attempts to cheat the gamblers are always detectable, whereas attempts to cheat the investors are not. If whoever inserted the dicebitco.in skipping code had simply stolen the server seed and cheated more subtly, we'd be no wiser today and simply wondering about the string of bad luck.
Wow, I just read about the fiasco.
So, with these "provably fair" sites, the gambler is able to verify that his past games were not rigged. But investors cannot tell whether arbitrary whales' winnings or losses were rigged, right?
So, with these "provably fair" sites, the gambler is able to verify that his past games were not rigged. But investors cannot tell whether arbitrary whales' winnings or losses were rigged, right?
Right. And "provably fair" doesn't mean that the site can't cheat you. It just means that if they do, and you bother to check, you will be able to find out that they cheated you, like finn did at dicebitco.in.
What do you mean? If the owner look at the server seed while he is rolling?
No, I mean "provably fair" is only probably fair for players (not investors) and is only useful if you actually verify you rolls. It doesn't mean you can't be cheated, it only means that you can detect cheating if you're willing to put in the required effort.
Little off subject, but is anyone interested in renting the redirect from www.PRCDice.com 
For the gambler provably fair only means you have a tool to verify your bets. If they were skipping nonces, changing server seeds, etc you would still be cheated. Only if you check all your bets, you can find out that you were (or not) cheated.
For the investor there is no way at all to verify anything. In theory it is very easy for the owner to fake a winning whale with the server seeds (or just small winners .. every day.) I actually started a discussion about that https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/provably-fair-for-investors-774458 "Provably fair for investors?", but the only solutions so far are not really provably fair, just slightly less risk.
For the investor there is no way at all to verify anything. In theory it is very easy for the owner to fake a winning whale with the server seeds (or just small winners .. every day.) I actually started a discussion about that https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/provably-fair-for-investors-774458 "Provably fair for investors?", but the only solutions so far are not really provably fair, just slightly less risk.
Wow, I just read about the fiasco.
So, with these "provably fair" sites, the gambler is able to verify that his past games were not rigged. But investors cannot tell whether arbitrary whales' winnings or losses were rigged, right?
So, with these "provably fair" sites, the gambler is able to verify that his past games were not rigged. But investors cannot tell whether arbitrary whales' winnings or losses were rigged, right?
Right. And "provably fair" doesn't mean that the site can't cheat you. It just means that if they do, and you bother to check, you will be able to find out that they cheated you, like finn did at dicebitco.in.
What do you mean? If the owner look at the server seed while he is rolling?
So after the Dicebitcoin fiasco, it's time to post this again:
Exinvestors, have you found any other good investment in bitcoins?
It's really sad that the government has stopped such a brilliant idea.
It's really sad that the government has stopped such a brilliant idea.
I'm currently enjoying dice.ninja (yes, .ninja is a valid top level domain!) but after how my recommendation of dicebitco.in turned out I'm a little worried about recommending anywhere else.
I was about 24-48 hours from putting a lot of coin on that site before busto based almost entirely on your recommendation. Dodged a really sick bullet there but I still would have loved you anyway.
d.ninja is still up!?
PD is getting stronger; it needs competition
I hate to say it because its based on zero facts but I'm really hesitant to invest under that site operator. Hopefully all goes well and then perhaps later I'll consider it although the dream is still dooglus moving to a fancy vacation house in Fiji and setting up operations there so I have a place to unload.
dicebitco seem to have cheated (they say it is the result of the actions of a single employee and they didn't know), they kind of reimbursed and could have left with the whole bankroll
PD you can play but not invest
d.ninja is new...
So after the Dicebitcoin fiasco, it's time to post this again:
Exinvestors, have you found any other good investment in bitcoins?
It's really sad that the government has stopped such a brilliant idea.
It's really sad that the government has stopped such a brilliant idea.
I'm currently enjoying dice.ninja (yes, .ninja is a valid top level domain!) but after how my recommendation of dicebitco.in turned out I'm a little worried about recommending anywhere else.
I was about 24-48 hours from putting a lot of coin on that site before busto based almost entirely on your recommendation. Dodged a really sick bullet there but I still would have loved you anyway.
d.ninja is still up!?
PD is getting stronger; it needs competition
I hate to say it because its based on zero facts but I'm really hesitant to invest under that site operator. Hopefully all goes well and then perhaps later I'll consider it although the dream is still dooglus moving to a fancy vacation house in Fiji and setting up operations there so I have a place to unload.
Wow, I just read about the fiasco.
So, with these "provably fair" sites, the gambler is able to verify that his past games were not rigged. But investors cannot tell whether arbitrary whales' winnings or losses were rigged, right?
So, with these "provably fair" sites, the gambler is able to verify that his past games were not rigged. But investors cannot tell whether arbitrary whales' winnings or losses were rigged, right?
Right. And "provably fair" doesn't mean that the site can't cheat you. It just means that if they do, and you bother to check, you will be able to find out that they cheated you, like finn did at dicebitco.in.
So after the Dicebitcoin fiasco, it's time to post this again:
Exinvestors, have you found any other good investment in bitcoins?
It's really sad that the government has stopped such a brilliant idea.
It's really sad that the government has stopped such a brilliant idea.
Wow, I just read about the fiasco.
So, with these "provably fair" sites, the gambler is able to verify that his past games were not rigged. But investors cannot tell whether arbitrary whales' winnings or losses were rigged, right?
So after the Dicebitcoin fiasco, it's time to post this again:
Exinvestors, have you found any other good investment in bitcoins?
It's really sad that the government has stopped such a brilliant idea.
It's really sad that the government has stopped such a brilliant idea.
I'm currently enjoying dice.ninja (yes, .ninja is a valid top level domain!) but after how my recommendation of dicebitco.in turned out I'm a little worried about recommending anywhere else.
I was about 24-48 hours from putting a lot of coin on that site before busto based almost entirely on your recommendation. Dodged a really sick bullet there but I still would have loved you anyway.
d.ninja is still up!?
PD is getting stronger; it needs competition
So after the Dicebitcoin fiasco, it's time to post this again:
Exinvestors, have you found any other good investment in bitcoins?
It's really sad that the government has stopped such a brilliant idea.
It's really sad that the government has stopped such a brilliant idea.
I'm currently enjoying dice.ninja (yes, .ninja is a valid top level domain!) but after how my recommendation of dicebitco.in turned out I'm a little worried about recommending anywhere else.
I was about 24-48 hours from putting a lot of coin on that site before busto based almost entirely on your recommendation. Dodged a really sick bullet there but I still would have loved you anyway.
So after the Dicebitcoin fiasco, it's time to post this again:
Exinvestors, have you found any other good investment in bitcoins?
It's really sad that the government has stopped such a brilliant idea.
It's really sad that the government has stopped such a brilliant idea.
I'm currently enjoying dice.ninja (yes, .ninja is a valid top level domain!) but after how my recommendation of dicebitco.in turned out I'm a little worried about recommending anywhere else.
So after the Dicebitcoin fiasco, it's time to post this again:
Exinvestors, have you found any other good investment in bitcoins?
It's really sad that the government has stopped such a brilliant idea.
It's really sad that the government has stopped such a brilliant idea.
DiceBitco.in has over 3550BTC in its BR, and they signed a wallet showing they personally own over 200BTC of it. They also run the largest LTC dice site and have for several months, I would say they are more trust worthy than just about any other active casino site.
No. Trust is not built by holding large amounts of money. Trust is only built by returning large amounts of money.
If someone holds 100k BTC for months, would you consider them trustworthy? You shouldn't, because simply holding BTC gives no indication of if they will actually let everyone withdraw when people decide to withdraw. dooglus is so far the only one that is trustworthy.
Yes and if you got a lot of deposits it doesn't mean you still have the coins or will return them back
is the site still going to convert to play coins
DiceBitco.in has over 3550BTC in its BR, and they signed a wallet showing they personally own over 200BTC of it. They also run the largest LTC dice site and have for several months, I would say they are more trust worthy than just about any other active casino site.
No. Trust is not built by holding large amounts of money. Trust is only built by returning large amounts of money.
If someone holds 100k BTC for months, would you consider them trustworthy? You shouldn't, because simply holding BTC gives no indication of if they will actually let everyone withdraw when people decide to withdraw. dooglus is so far the only one that is trustworthy.
I had over 20 BTC that I withdrew last January and 12,000 LTC that I withdrew this month on https://dicenow.com I started investing in the house's BR when the site opened in October 2013, so those LTC alone were worth > $400,000 latter that year, when I withdrew them they sold for > $70,000 so I would highly recommend the integrity of dicenow, see his thread for more info:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=314252.0;all
My main account:
Jump to: