LargeCoin Pricing Announced; Taking Pre-Orders - page 11.

ttul

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Quote from: lakeluke on March 06, 2012, 02:01:20 PM

15k is much more reasonable; also license file non time liked with out remote drm. I like the escrow in fact it's essential; why not 5k up front and then 1k per month with each payment you send a license file until 15k is paid. You could also come up with a formulae on price by incorporating the difficulty ratio at the time.

If you have good credit, we can (as can any business) arrange an equipment lease. But keep in mind this will bind you to a 12 to 48 month lease contract.

ttul

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Quote from: TheOtherGuy on March 06, 2012, 02:56:22 PM

You mentioned leasing earlier in the thread. Can you give us an idea of how that would work?

At this point we have no firm plan to lease these units. It's an idea we have thought about, and the platform is designed to support it (hence the provision of license keys).

What would the community's interest in leasing be?

TheOtherGuy

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You mentioned leasing earlier in the thread. Can you give us an idea of how that would work?

ttul

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Quote from: lakeluke on March 06, 2012, 02:01:20 PM

15k is much more reasonable; also license file non time liked with out remote drm. I like the escrow in fact it's essential; why not 5k up front and then 1k per month with each payment you send a license file until 15k is paid. You could also come up with a formulae on price by incorporating the difficulty ratio at the time.

As others have mentioned with delivery in late July and block rewarding halving in Jan it does not leave much room for a decent payback period if btw does not substantially appreciate in early 2013

I know there is probably endless speculation regarding what will happen to the BTC exchange rate when the block reward is cut in half, but my own opinion is that the halving of the block reward will reduce supply therefore increasing the price - probably by enough to recoup the lost "revenue" from the cut in mining reward. Another consideration is that if the exchange rate fails to increase to recoup the halving of the mining reward, people mining inefficiently will leave the market, and those operating FPGA and ASIC based systems will reap a larger share of the mining rewards -- halved as they may be.

lakeluke

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15k is much more reasonable; also license file non time liked with out remote drm. I like the escrow in fact it's essential; why not 5k up front and then 1k per month with each payment you send a license file until 15k is paid. You could also come up with a formulae on price by incorporating the difficulty ratio at the time.

As others have mentioned with delivery in late July and block rewarding halving in Jan it does not leave much room for a decent payback period if btw does not substantially appreciate in early 2013

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: rjk on March 06, 2012, 01:32:47 PM

Like I said in an earlier post, this functionality could be useful if the user retained control over the actual control/head server sitting at the top of the rack, instead of having it hosted. Anyone spending $30,000 per unit for 40 units can damn well spend another $500 on a cheapo rack mount server to run them.

Good point and would be an awesome feature.

Fefox

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Quote from: ttul on March 06, 2012, 01:01:55 PM

Quote from: Fefox on March 05, 2012, 10:52:23 PM

I think this product would need to be in the $10,000-$15,000 range to garner any real interest.

Would you buy one if it was $15K?

$15k would be my upper limit, sans the DRM...

a no DRM pre-production price of $12,500 or less I might bite.

DRM really bothers me. even if you had confirmed working units (right now) I doubt I would would pay more than 8k for it.
if you had working units (right now) no DRM I would probably be ordering a few units NOW at $12.5 any future sales would probably depend on what the delivered BFL Rigbox specs out at.

coblee

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ttyl, thanks for clearing this up. If you reduce the price to $15k, you will find demand for your product. But at $30k, it's way too expensive.

ttul

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on March 06, 2012, 01:28:19 PM

Quote from: ttul on March 06, 2012, 01:22:22 PM

No, there's no remote kill, and the phone home function is optional and for your convenience only. Our ASICs have a crypto mechanism that checks a license file that you must supply to the system. The license file specifies how much mining the system will do, in accordance with whatever license you've purchased. For the C200 units we are taking orders for currently, the license will be unlimited.

That sounds a lot different than:

Quote

Mining is controlled via an online control panel hosted by LargeCoin, which allows you to direct mining shares to the pool of your choice and manage your entire LargeCoin cluster in one convenient place

So which is it?

Both - most customers (we imagine) will prefer to control the system through a nice hosted UI. Others will configure their appliances to connect to a pool and contribute mining shares without any interaction with our control panel service. There will be a way to run the appliance completely independently - we hear you, and will make sure this option is available.

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on March 06, 2012, 01:28:19 PM

locked or unlocked I would want the rig completely outside the control of LargeCoin.

Why not simply have a license file issued and used locally which has encryption key for either share limit or unlimited mining. The whole calling home to a remote server which manages the rigs and "directs" them to a pool of user's choice is a deal killer.

As I've written in various posts, after you receive the appliance, you can either connect it to the Internet, in which case it will self-register and obtain a license automatically when you pay the balance; or, you can leave it disconnected and install the license file manually. I think most customers will take the auto-registration route for convenience. After you have paid us and obtained the full license key, there is no need for the system to contact LargeCoin central again, and you will be able to stop this from happening without having any effect on mining.

rjk

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1ngldh

Quote from: jamesg on March 06, 2012, 01:30:30 PM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on March 06, 2012, 01:28:19 PM

The whole calling home to a remote server which manages the rigs and "directs" them to a pool of user's choice is a deal killer.

+1

Like I said in an earlier post, this functionality could be useful if the user retained control over the actual control/head server sitting at the top of the rack, instead of having it hosted. Anyone spending $30,000 per unit for 40 units can damn well spend another $500 on a cheapo rack mount server to run them.

jamesg

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on March 06, 2012, 01:28:19 PM

The whole calling home to a remote server which manages the rigs and "directs" them to a pool of user's choice is a deal killer.

+1

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: ttul on March 06, 2012, 01:22:22 PM

No, there's no remote kill, and the phone home function is optional and for your convenience only. Our ASICs have a crypto mechanism that checks a license file that you must supply to the system. The license file specifies how much mining the system will do, in accordance with whatever license you've purchased. For the C200 units we are taking orders for currently, the license will be unlimited.

That sounds a lot different than:

Quote

Mining is controlled via an online control panel hosted by LargeCoin, which allows you to direct mining shares to the pool of your choice and manage your entire LargeCoin cluster in one convenient place

So which is it?

At first glance the idea of locked hardware rubbed me the wrong way but I see the advantages. One could pay a deposit, get a rig w/ a time locked license file and after testing decide either to pay full price up front for unlocked rig or pay monthly lease getting new license file periodically.

Still locked or unlocked I would want the rig completely outside the control of LargeCoin.

Why not simply have a license file issued and used locally which has encryption key for either limit the number of blocks/hours/hashes or unlimited mining depending on the encryption key provided. The whole calling home to a remote server which manages the rigs and "directs" them to a pool of user's choice is a deal killer.

ttul

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on March 05, 2012, 11:03:31 PM

...
Now this is for tires as cheap at $60 for fucks sake. $60 tires have a full paragraph to protect both parties interest in the event the pro-rated refund needs to be used. Yet for a $30K piece of custom hardware something as vague as "will be pro-rated" is sufficient? Really?

To clear things up, the warranty provides for a full refund if the appliance stops working during the warranty period. If there is substantial demand for a longer warranty, we will consider offering one at a reasonable up-front cost. I can understand anyone's concern that a device might stop working before it has earned back its purchase cost.

Quote from: coblee on March 06, 2012, 01:24:19 PM

Yes, the hosted solution is quite ridiculous. Who's to know if the miner is actually the one producing the hashes? I'm not trying to accuse you of anything, but for all I know, the miner is pretending to do something and using up 100w and you have a GPU farm sending my pool hashes. And you only have to do that for 90 days.

Not sure if you're replying to my post, but if you're contributing your hosted mining resources to a pool, there are great mechanisms in place already that ensure the pool submissions are not bullshit.

Quote from: coblee on March 06, 2012, 01:26:15 PM

Quote from: ttul on March 06, 2012, 01:22:22 PM

No, there's no remote kill, and the phone home function is optional and for your convenience only. Our ASICs have a crypto mechanism that checks a license file that you must supply to the system. The license file specifies how much mining the system will do, in accordance with whatever license you've purchased. For the C200 units we are taking orders for currently, the license will be unlimited.

Do I have to provide the license file each time the miner boots up or is it unlock once and the miner is plug and play from then on?

You won't have to supply the file on every boot. Each system has a microcontroller and some nonvolatile storage so that configuration settings persist through reboots.

coblee

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Quote from: ttul on March 06, 2012, 01:22:22 PM

No, there's no remote kill, and the phone home function is optional and for your convenience only. Our ASICs have a crypto mechanism that checks a license file that you must supply to the system. The license file specifies how much mining the system will do, in accordance with whatever license you've purchased. For the C200 units we are taking orders for currently, the license will be unlimited.

Do I have to provide the license file each time the miner boots up or is it unlock once and the miner is plug and play from then on?

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: coblee on March 06, 2012, 01:12:12 PM

Of course that also depends on how the DRM mining is implemented. It is crucial that once I bought the miner, the miner needs to function even if LargeCoin goes out of business for any reason. In other words, the interface to configure the pools must be on the device itself and not an external website. And if there is a token to unlock the hardware, the unlock must be complete. It shouldn't have to phone home and LargeCoin should not be able to remotely configure or brick the device.

THIS.

Any crypto or hardware lock which has to phone home ever (even once) is non-viable. Period. No exceptions. To easy to become a casualty of another business failure.

coblee

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Yes, the hosted solution is quite ridiculous. Who's to know if the miner is actually the one producing the hashes? I'm not trying to accuse you of anything, but for all I know, the miner is pretending to do something and using up 100w and you have a GPU farm sending my pool hashes. And you only have to do that for 90 days.

ttul

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Quote from: jamesg on March 06, 2012, 01:14:35 PM

Quote from: coblee on March 06, 2012, 01:12:12 PM

It is crucial that once I bought the miner, the miner needs to function even if LargeCoin goes out of business for any reason. In other words, the interface to configure the pools must be on the device itself and not an external website. And if there is a token to unlock the hardware, the unlock must be complete. It shouldn't have to phone home and LargeCoin should not be able to remotely configure or brick the device.

Is this how LargeCoin is supposed to work?

Is there a remote kill switch or phone home system?

Thanks,
gigavps

No, there's no remote kill, and the phone home function is optional and for your convenience only. Our ASICs have a crypto mechanism that checks a license file that you must supply to the system. The license file specifies how much mining the system will do, in accordance with whatever license you've purchased. For the C200 units we are taking orders for currently, the license will be unlimited.

Without the license mechanism, our only option would be to take payment in full prior to shipping, which is probably less desirable than allowing the customer to receive the unit, run it for a few weeks, and validate everything is working well before submitting payment in full to receive the full-bore license key.

Our goal here is to deal with the well deserved suspicion that any Bitcoin hardware project - particularly one promising an ASIC - is a total scam, as several have been over the past year.

rjk

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1ngldh

Quote from: jamesg on March 06, 2012, 01:14:35 PM

Quote from: coblee on March 06, 2012, 01:12:12 PM

It is crucial that once I bought the miner, the miner needs to function even if LargeCoin goes out of business for any reason. In other words, the interface to configure the pools must be on the device itself and not an external website. And if there is a token to unlock the hardware, the unlock must be complete. It shouldn't have to phone home and LargeCoin should not be able to remotely configure or brick the device.

Is this how LargeCoin is supposed to work?

Is there a remote kill switch or phone home system?

Thanks,
gigavps

Quote from: ttul on March 05, 2012, 06:04:32 PM

Mining is controlled via an online control panel hosted by LargeCoin, which allows you to direct mining shares to the pool of your choice and manage your entire LargeCoin cluster in one convenient place. Each C200 mines at 20GHash/s, consuming a mere 100W. Designed for high density operation, the C200 provides efficient movement of air and is suitable for operating in a fully loaded 42U rack (up to 40 units per rack).

jamesg

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Quote from: coblee on March 06, 2012, 01:12:12 PM

It is crucial that once I bought the miner, the miner needs to function even if LargeCoin goes out of business for any reason. In other words, the interface to configure the pools must be on the device itself and not an external website. And if there is a token to unlock the hardware, the unlock must be complete. It shouldn't have to phone home and LargeCoin should not be able to remotely configure or brick the device.

Is this how LargeCoin is supposed to work?

Is there a remote kill switch or phone home system?

Thanks,
gigavps

coblee

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Quote from: ttul on March 06, 2012, 01:01:55 PM

Quote from: Fefox on March 05, 2012, 10:52:23 PM

I think this product would need to be in the $10,000-$15,000 range to garner any real interest.

Would you buy one if it was $15K?

That would reduce the break even to 7 months and would make it more competitive. If I have the money, I would buy one. Of course that also depends on how the DRM mining is implemented. It is crucial that once I bought the miner, the miner needs to function even if LargeCoin goes out of business for any reason. In other words, the interface to configure the pools must be on the device itself and not an external website. And if there is a token to unlock the hardware, the unlock must be complete. It shouldn't have to phone home and LargeCoin should not be able to remotely configure or brick the device.

Topic: LargeCoin Pricing Announced; Taking Pre-Orders - page 11. (Read 30323 times)