Topic: LargeCoin Pricing Announced; Taking Pre-Orders - page 13. (Read 30326 times)

Understood. Thank you


You also assume that the reward halving has no impact in price.

Anyway, this is a choice I don't need to worry about because I don't have the money to buy it.

Ok, let's assume data center costs and power costs are $0. Mining this at 20ghash/s nets you about $2000 a month. Let's assume both bitcoin price and difficulty either don't increase or cancel each other out. So you get 5 months at $2000 a month, and when the mining rewards halves in December of this year, you start making only $1000/month. It will take 25 months to make back your initial investment.

You guys really need to rethink your strategy. Maybe leasing makes sense. But purchasing your device doesn't make any sense if it doesn't break even for 2 years (which doesn't even include the data center and power costs!)

For comparison, The BitForce Single takes 8.8 months to break even and the BitForce Rig takes 6.5 months to break even. And these 2 numbers assumes power costs $0.30 per kwh.

I have no details of the leasing model, and there won't be a leasing model until after shipment of the initial production of 25 devices. We're not Cisco, folks, we're just a group of engineers, some startup capital, and a dream to build an ASIC mining appliance. Take it for what it is.

Regarding the fears of DRM, I'd like to clear up how the system will work, so that you know the box won't be mysteriously turning itself off and demanding a ransom. When you receive the machine and turn it on, it will register itself with LargeCoin by sending a token through the Internet. When we receive final payment for delivery of the appliance, we will send you a token (electronically if the device is connected), which provides an unlimited mining license. You are free to sell the device to someone else, and so long as that token is entered, the device will mine happily until the last Bitcoin block is solved.

By all means, if you trust a startup enough to send it $30,000 before receiving the product, we'll send you the license token before it ships.

No ongoing communication is required after you have configured the license token; and, if you prefer, you don't have to connect your device to the Internet at all. There will be a way to enter the license token without having it connected to the Internet.

Does this clear up everyone's concerns about DRM?


We don't want to spin multiple versions of the chip. To enable a future leasing model, we need to have control within the hardware over the capability of the appliance to mine a certain number of blocks. That means literally burning a crypto key into each chip, and then enabling verification of license keys within the chip itself.


This appliance isn't targeted at the hobby-level miner. If you have a few machines in your basement, keep on GPU mining. Chances are, you don't care about data center costs or power costs. But if you want to mine as a business, the ASIC model can't be beat in terms of profitability.

$30k for 20 ghash/s. The breakeven is ~15 months assuming difficulty doesn't increase AND mining rewards doesn't halve at the end of the year. And plus you won't get this until July. Realistic breakeven is closer to 5 years. Add hosted/DRM mining and 90 days warranty to this. Thanks, but I'll pass.

Sir here is your token for the $30k investment, remember you are limited with this license to mine only 1 block.

Thanks, but I see that while I wrote my lengthy post, and I had a break do deal with some issues in meat space, this thread exploded with posts, and I see the OP stated that there would not be a centralized control server, but rather a token that would allow mining for a certain number of blocks.

That's too a really bad idea if you ask me. If the company can deliver what it promises, then just sell it as it is, with no restrictions.

I was about to post this, but you wrote a much better text Mining with hardware that is tied to a central platform defeats the whole purpose of mining.

Interesting solution you advertise here.

I'm asking like another poster did, why will the equipment be tied to your platform ? The whole idea of bitcoin is that it shall be decentralized. If you produce a lot of this equipment, and you sit with a central control (as I understand all clients can control it from the online web-page on your server), then the decentralization goes out the window.

Although I'm very sure you're working extremely hard with this, but a lot of us are freedom loving individuals that would like to be able to govern our own equipment. Why not make it possible for the users to administrate the system from his own computer, or though any interface. If you want it to be administered through a web-interface, then this could be integrated in the unit and need not have a remote central for it to be administered?

What guarantees are there except your words that once enough units are deployed that there will be a 51% attack on the network, either by you or somebody attacking the central platform (talk about juicy target).

I sincerely hope this does not come forward as too negative, but these are questions that we really need to ask. I wish you best of luck in the continued business endeavors.

I can only suspect after 90days they will force you to keep paying them or they switch of your token.

Thats all that makes sense, they wont tell you up front before the 90day period ends however.

Good luck pushing your scamrig to the masses, I bet some obscure rich retard would fall for this.

Do you have more details about the leasing model? I don't see any mention of it in this thread.

Hell no.  DRMed mining rigs.  I mean you got to be fucking kidding me.  What happens when it turns out the token you sold me expires or requires some "upgrade fee" to continue to work past 2015 or you decide to stop supporting the version of the token I bought.  Even more mundane things like your company gets shutdown for tax evasion and my rig can't "phone home" and thus becomes a $30K doorstop.

I wouldn't do that for a $30 video game much less 30K rig.  Your high MH/$ price already makes it less competitive than existing solutions.  Throwing asinine DRM on top of it is just a killer.  

Beyond stupid.    I mean DRM WTF are you guys thinking?  I thought I had seen it all.

This is great feedback. By "hosting" we're not meaning that the devices need to be plugged in or online 24x7 to access a site hosted by LargeCoin. We issue you a token, and the token permits a certain number of blocks to be mined. For out-right purchases, the token will permit unlimited mining, whether the device is plugged in or not. And yes, the token is tied to crypto on the processor. As I mentioned earlier, the purpose of this mechanism is to support a leasing model.

They are at least offering an escrow and promising the specs within reason or they will refund. As soon as I get the escrow agreement I'll post it here. I do wonder about the hosting requirement. I would much rather run the unit independently.

Power consumption.  

That being said I take any simulation with a grain of salt but getting 8x the performance per watt is pretty impressive.  Also BFL last product ended up be 400% of claimed wattage and 66% of claimed hashing power at 20% higher price.   If Rig box follows that same trend it is ~30GH/s @ 10 KW and ~$35K.  

Still two paper dragons that only exist in simulation form ...

Only a 90 day warranty on a $30k piece of equipment?  And tied to your host site?  Yeesh - you could fake mining at 20 GH/s for 90 days and then cut it off (claiming that the unit must be broken) and still come out way ahead.  Too many red flags here..

Chip manufacturer simulation: 100% granted...

Exactly.

They mentioned all the data is based upon simulations ...

We all remember BFL claiming 1 ghash/s at 20 W and it turns out to be 800 mhash/s at 80 W

Simulations are not worth jack.

Lets be honest, neither of these exist on the market and until there is an actual unit available for either of them we are all just throwing numbers around

You can get 1MH/s out of ASIC, thats not the problem. The price is the problem, it would probably be the better option for some rich startup bitcoin miner who lives in a country that atleast cost 50x more for power than the average country pricerange, this country doesnt exist :/

The Rig Box does 2.5 times more hashes, but at 10 times the electricity per hash. It comes down to what you value more, hash/$ performance or hash/watt performance.