Topic: Lightning Network Observer - page 13. (Read 14143 times)

Really?

How did you store your private key back in 2009-2010?

BIP39 didn't exist.

There's a constant evolution towards making Bitcoin more and more user-friendly. It's too bad you don't see it.

Just like the internet evolved from CLI/Gopher to GUI/Tik Tok.

I reckon it won't take 30+ years for BTC/LN to become mainstream. Adoption lag keeps decreasing with every new technology.

what you dont realise about doomad is
a. he advocates bitcoin fees should go higher
b. he advocates that bitcoin should not expand to allow more transactions per block

he does not want more people using bitcoin

he wants people to use LN instead because thats where he hopes to get rich. by charging people fee's for routing through him

as a side note he kisses ass of schemes that have flaws becasue he is a penny scraper. hoping if he kisses ass enough he will be seen as loyal and be offered a job with them(not formally because that means he will lose his disability benefits) so he wants unofficial jobs 'under the table'

he things anyone against greed must have suffered trauma..
reality is i am independently wealthy to not need to scheme and scam and recruit idiots . i dont need to kiss ass. i dont need to penny scrape with sig campaigns

i could understand it if doomad was just poor and was just looking for a job. but he goes to the extremes of only promoting scammy things designed to cut people away from their value.
he chooses to suck up to things that dont help the community enmasse, he just promotes things meant to screw with people for profits and side deals/back handers

he wants to break things if those things then make his preferred system more propositional.
he loves the bitcoin bloat he loves the high fee's he loves the transaction scaling restrictions/delays/avoidances

he does not care about evolving bitcoin to be scalable. he just wants people annoyed by bitcoin soo much that they end up using something else.

The lightening network is aimed at resolving the mere issues we do face when transacting on the Bitcoin Blockchain. Normally the Bitcoin network was created to handle smaller transactions which had been a problem enlongating the time for it to be confirmed.
Sometimes I would have to wait up to 10 to 15 minutes on average for transaction confirmation using high network fee. The lightening network had been helping people to spend lesser fee with fast speed. We all have the opinion to decide on the one that fit our skin colour. Lightening network has it own flaws too hoping it would be resolved.

We have the choice to go for either the lightening network or transaction on the normal Bitcoin level. I think Franky1 argument is based on people shifting from the normal Bitcoin transaction which could be expensive and slower to the lightening network. It is obvious that majority of Bitcoin users would still prefer the normal Bitcoin transaction compared to lightening network because of it complexity and the problems  attached to using lightening network.

doomad your the idiot that wants to take choices away.

you want people to stop using bitcoin
you love the fees going up thus forcing peoples hands
you love the dust limits and other things that mean people cant just buy small priced items using bitcoin

heck you even love the consensus being softened so that people have no choice thus to let crap happen on the network.

oh and if people do want to ask for practical features.. you are the first to tell them to F-OFF and go play with that option on another network

you are not a supporter of a decentralised network of unity and consensus approach
you are a supporter of chaos and central control.
and as long as it brings you greedy profits at the cost of other people you dont care about other people being pushed into things that make you profit

like the services you promote so much. that DO harm others.

its funny that you think that someone needs to be traumatised to spot idiots and spot scammers and spot systems that dont work.. to then have the ability to call them out

is it because you never realised you are caught in a scam until you got kicked in the head. and you only dared call out on your scammer brotherin after they hospitalised you, or something?
are you scared to tell the truth out of fear of being traumatised?? is that it. are you afraid to go against things becasue you fear being hurt?

is this why you are not realising your advertising crap broke stuff like LN and mixers. because you have yet to be kicked in the head for your morals to be triggered enough to stop?
is it trauma that you think is the only way that you will stop?

here is a lesson.. outside of your echo chamber buddy group.. billions of other people dont need trauma to assess risks and decide to avoid things.
but for you, i think the previous kicks to the head may explain your mindset of why you toe a echo chamber line of promoting risky crap that makes other people lose value and your afraid to call out the risks. you would rather remain in stockholm syndrome, kissing the ass of your abusers

Well it's a good thing that no one is "replacing" anything, then.  Please stop being so precious and petty.  Lightning is there to supplement and support Bitcoin.  It's an optional extra.  People can use it if they want, but no one is forcing them to (much like all the other things you appear to hate about Bitcoin).  You can keep hating, but devs are going to keep coding.  And that's why they're going to achieve great things and you're not. 

Most people appreciate being given a choice.  Maybe one of these days you'll explain what traumatic event you suffered that caused you to be so overtly hostile to freedom of choice.  I assure you. normal people don't act like this.  Seek counselling or something.  You need help.

but i explain that its being held back by idiots that prefer to promote other networks as the solution instead of concentrating on bitcoin

you lot like the bloat being added to bitcoin you like the fee's rising you lot like to tell people to stop being full nodes. stop offering IBD support to other peers. you want junk added to bitcoin and users to use other networks for payments

YOU LOT ARE THE BITCOIN HATERS

i simply hate the DEVELOPERS that want commercialised services to replace bitcoin, the same developers who are stifling bitcoin to achieve it

YOU lot want to promote that bitcoin is not fit for purpose and cant reach mass adoption

Also franky1:


Backwards as usual.

funny thing is that its people like you and doomads and her forum-bros that are always telling people to not use bitcoin and use other networks that have other units of value measure.. so that makes you lot the shitcoiners.

YOU lot are claiming BTC is shit hense why YOU lot want people to migrate over to LN

bitcoin is not the myspace. LN is myspace

and as for the whole comparing LN to the internet in 1991.. nope. bitcoin even from day one was able to install and make transactions without headaches. then LN came around 9 years later and caused issues, making fake promises requiring main net delays due to waiting for LN promises to flourish..  and 6 years after LN has been around, LN is still causing issues.

LN has had 6 years to try to improve itself and yet if you OBSERVE your own recruits in this very topic many are saying how crap the UI is and how hard it is to install or migrate between wallets.

if you are a dev and someone told you your software for the last 6 years has been crap and your only response is "wait more years becasue you need to think of the software as something from the early 90's so be patient for a decade"

you are not thinking about whats actually being told to you. you are just trying to be a carpet sweeping ignorant person

get the hint other networks that lock-bridge btc value are more successful than LN. those networks are only a couple years old compared to LN of 6 years. and yet you want to keep pretending that LN is cool and successful.. get the hint already. and stop using your dev groups fake promises of helping bitcoin. when all its doing is delaying bitcoin network evolution

https://twitter.com/BTC_Archive/status/1645070840210284546
https://beincrypto.com/coinbase-will-integrate-bitcoin-lightning-network/

It's a no-brainer that economic might is the engine that drives individuals, organizations, industries, churches, governments, and nations. I mean, who doesn't like money, am I right? Sure, political power is important, but let's be real, it ain't gonna cut it without a booming economy to support it. Governments better wise up and realize that a strong economy is the foundation for everything in life.

It ain't just about the cash, ya hear? While a strong economy can be a foundation for success, we gotta keep our eyes open to the downsides. Too much dough can lead to inequality and exploitation. We gotta balance the economic growth with our social responsibilities.

let me drop some truth bombs on ya. To make some serious progress and get ahead, we need to have some serious bankroll. And not just some pocket change, I'm talking real economic power, yo. By having our economic situation under control and respectable, we can make sure our hard work pays off but also be cautious of its potential negative effects.

Source a direct quote or stop lying.  Pick one.  You can't just keep making things up and expecting people to believe it.

But I will say that LN is better than the failed forkcoins you want to copy.  Scaling is not, nor has it ever been, the "dOuBlE fAsTeR" nonsense you support.  It hasn't worked for BCH.  It hasn't worked for BSV.  It wouldn't work for you even if anyone else was stupid enough to go along with it.  Every time blocks are approaching full, you'll be right back to the only idea rattling around in your skull.  "Raise it again".  It's the sole extent to what your limited cognition can muster.



And which service would that be, exactly? 

Bitcoin is the TCP/IP of money:

https://medium.com/@samikkurty/is-the-bitcoin-protocol-similar-to-tcp-ip-a6127f08f893
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1dd3uv/paul_buchheit_inventor_of_gmail_tweets_how/

Most people don't get it... even some old "BTC maxis" (well, you sound more like a shitcoiner when you mention MySpace, because shitcoiners think BTC is like MySpace and will be supplanted by alts).

TCP/IP is the foundation of the internet and Tik Tok is an app (Layer 7 on OSI model) that runs on top of it.

What's so hard to understand about the layered approach in IT?

Claiming BTC/LN is not very user-friendly currently is like claiming internet wasn't very user-friendly back in 1991. This argument doesn't hold any water.

windows/tiktok developers knew about a thing called user friendliness
even an idiot can use windows. and tiktok

read the posts in this topic of all the people having issues using LN

and as for "top layers"
tiktok is not a top layer. its a niche service

a top layer is the main backbone that manages other layers

a top layer domain is not "bitcointalk" its instead ".org"
a top layer is not "venmo" a top layer is "IMF SDR"

LN is not tcp/ip equivalent. its tiktok equivalent as you have admitted accidentality

coming later does not make it ontop it makes it secondary/dependant


i know you lemmings want to pretend LN is bitcoin2.0 or better than/ontop of bitcoin but LN can function without bitcoin. and it does ALOT of the time run without bitcoin

there are far more wallet users that dont run a bitcoin node than there are users with a bitcoin node.

tiktok can run without android it can run with Ios or other operating systems

windows/IoS/bitcoin are not dependant on LN running

LN is not dependant nor requires bitcoin.
bitcoin is not dependant nor requires LN
thus its not a protocol level system. its a sub service of a protocol level system

i laugh when lemmings think that LN is a protocol level system above a mainnet

seems you have not learned the many problems cypherpunks hit their heads against when trying to may digital money. which were solved by blockchains. seems you are the one that does not know about what blockchains provide and instead you want to go back to systems pre bitcoin to mess around with

but hey. you are only wasting your own time trying to promote what is considered as Myspace.. a defunct network/service

other people have given up waiting for LN promises. because even LN devs have admitted LN has flaws that cant be fixed. even whole countries have dropped LN to use something else

and one last thing. a reminder of the usefulness
even a idiot can get tiktok to run without a headache. but LN after 6 years is not made for idiots even if you are advertising failed LN to idiots

its time to accept it.
time to observe the failures of LN and start from scratch with a new service for the niche userbase you want to recruit. a niche service that actually works

LN has become  the delay excuse the "wait until LN is popular before bitcoin gets to evolve" where, reality is. thats not going to happen. so time to move on from the LN failed experiment

yep even things like avalanche has more BTC liquidity locks than LN and avalanche is not even 2 years old

whilst others are choosing other niche services for microtransactions due to the failure of LN you lemmings are still flogging a dead horse of LN and then doubling down by saying bitcoin should not evolve until LN succeeds. hoping that you can sway the masses to use LN just so that it prompts devs to evolve bitcoin mainnet.
sorry but that sales tactic wont work. LN wont get popular its time to accept it and try something different

TCP/IP was invented back in 1982.

Tik Tok came much later.

Also, it seems you don't know Windows 98 ran on top of the DOS kernel.

Old IT guys are very familiar with this layered approach. It seems it's all new to you.

if you are trying to claim LN is as good as internet protocol layer above apps.. you are fooling yourself

LN is a service not a protocol. LN has no network wide consensus protocol. its not even a standard. its a mish mash of crap apps that have issues communicating with each other

LN is a subnetwork not a top level

..
economics comparison

if dollar wire transfer was the main net..
LN is not the IMF SDR rail
LN is the venmo

what a f***k?  My eyes are bleeding.  So you think LN is not working because in 6 years they failed to solve some problems?  All this is absurd.  LN is the way forward to pave the mass adoption of Bitcoin without too many words.  While El Salvador did not let LN go because it doesn't work but simply because it is a corrupt country where their president is playing the politician but with great pressure from the USA and if you really think that the FED and the USA will leave countries like El Salvador making them play with Bitcoin then you are thinking wrong.  El Salvador is an unsuccessful experiment, but not because there were any difficulties in development or programming but only because we really wanted it to be like this.

Your description (Franky) seems to be both out of touch with reality - in terms of ongoing progress that is being made by the lightning network - including increased adoption (network effects) and increased development, and in terms of any kinds of challenges that come towards the building (or layering) of payments that are not onchain, but can be settled/resolved with onchain.. while at the same times have a whole hell of a lot of non-stoppability in terms of being able to send value (and even communicate) in ways that are similarly powerful as onchain, but surely having some differing dynamics in terms of some of the ways that transaction costs are calculated.. but also how payments may or may not be traced... even with both quasi-public and less public (private channels in which who the fuck is going to know about the transaction?).

You frequently come off as being nearly crazy (or is it "a nutjob"?) (with your seemingly ongoing passion for your point of view to be saying that you are supposedly "pro-bitcoin" but fighting so much against various aspects of bitcoin.., derailing productive discussions (even though you might sometimes make some interesting points, but still hard to read you when so ladened with emotions and then intermingled information that does not seem to be correct or is exaggerated in ways that are more distracting than they are helpful) like a no coiner, a bitcoin naysayer, a shitcoiner, or some dweeb like that ego-driven Roger Ver who could not (and perhaps still cannot) accept that the direction of bitcoin has been going in ways that differed from his various imposition-laden fantasy-landia preferences) because you are such a negative Nancy in regards to lightning network and even your various ongoing convoluted criticisms of segwit that seem to stem from desires 2017 blocksize war discussions that Segwit had not gone live.. and/or maybe you would be somewhat happy if whatever development(s) in bitcoin would be able to reach your stamp of approval.. and surely, by now you should realize that bitcoin no doesn't work like that.. we don't even have any benevolent dictators, even if you were the smartest guy in the room.. which does not even seem to be the case based on the kinds of battles that you ongoingly want to engage...

Do you have a phone?  or maybe some ways that you might interact with others using lightning network?   You gotta be trying to get your feet wet with this shit, rather than ongoingly making theoretical (no skin in the game observations) in order to really be attempting to learn and to show us that you are genuinely trying.

You seem to be quite a bit smarter than me in regards to some of the technical aspects of both lightning network and bitcoin too.., yet I can still see that sometimes (or is it frequently?) some of your criticizms are full of shit and seeming to want to lord over in regards to making things technical when there are some bigger questions, including just mere usability matters..

Sure, I will admit that I had not really even started to feel comfortable enough to really even attempt to get into LN until recently (largely I took some more concrete steps in around July or so - even though I had been trying to keep up with some of the lightning network threads, even since late 2017 when it was first becoming more popular to discuss and perhaps even moreso when it went live in a kind of rebellious and "premature" way due to some of the then spam attacks that seemed to have had been taking place through bigblockers or shitcoiners or bitcoin naysayers.. or who really knows who? but I do recall lightning network going live..and then the spam attacks pretty quickly subsiding.. along with the mempool getting cleared out over the following weeks.. ..  hahahahaha.. what drama we have around these parts..  ).. and also until there seems to be more justifications to have alternative ways to interact with bitcoin in a way that attempts to limit the use of third parties, or at least spreads out the various third parties in ways that they are not as likely to cut us off from being able to transact in bitcoin (if we were to want to or to need to).  Part of my point is that practice likely is a good thing, but I will also admit that there are a lot of folks who I had been trying to get to use lightning network and almost the best that I can find is someone willing to transact with CashApp.. which surely is quite far from decentralized.. even though it is one of the players that includes lightning network options that are likely somewhat easy to use, even though surely not decentralized..


Yep.. part of the reason that I want to go somewhat slowly.. and just see if I am going to be able to do any of those things.. and I do like some of the power of the descriptions of the Embassy (Start9's approach towards being able to run various apps through your own node), and I have heard several interviews of one of their founders (on various bitcoin only podcasts)... but still even just looking at the website.. it seems like it could have some difficulties to run on my computer.. but then another thing to actually buy one of their computers seems like one more of the things to hall around if I am traveling or even to have someone watch it (to turn it back on or whatever) if I were to leave it in one location while I am traveling.. Just something to keep learning about and some of us less technical folks would prefer plug and play, but there are risks with plug and play too.. .. and yeah, seems to take a while to figure out some ways to have some level of plug and play and at the same time have some confidence that others are reviewing the code and the various potential backdoors.

Then, by the same token, so have you.  The difference is that you have far less potential to evolve and grow (arguably none, as we've apparently reached peak-frank already).  Please enlighten us as to what you've achieved in the last 6 years.  Other than noise, what do you produce?  It sure as hell isn't code or good ideas.  You contribute nothing of value.

Conversely, LN has multiple independent dev teams.  Many people producing actual code.  They have impetus on their side and they continue to make advancements.  They don't whine, they create.  And they've already achieved far more than you ever will.  So maybe show just a little respect.

LN is far from a perfect solution.
Liquidity, routing and interface issues still make the usage of LN, albeit on a noncustodial way, still difficult for the average user.
Yet, I think it is an huge success, as the race is a marathon, to be won over the decades, not a sprint to be won in 6 years.

Lightning is complicated and not a very good options for the average user, that part I can understand very easily and honestly think the exact same.
However what are the flaws in the system that you talk about? Are those security issues or more usability issues?