Topic: Lightning Network Observer - page 9. (Read 13809 times)

Just wanted to write something here today.

Lightning is really working so well!  

I got fed up with Twitter during Elons most recent... whatever that was... and decided to go back over to Nostr for my doomscolling addiction.  Early on I was very excited about Nostr (back in Dec 22) but it was nothing more than a Bitcoin "pleb" echo chamber.  And the interface and experience was fairly rough around the edges.

Well, that is no longer the case.  There is tons more content there now, and it is no longer just the monotonic  Bitcoin confirmation bias machine.  And the clients have been developed to a much greater degree now.

So two points apropos to this thread.

1.  Integrated lightning is working SO WELL.  If you have not seen it, what the protocol has done (along with the app devs) is integrate something along the likes of a "tweet like", but it is called a "zap".  In this case you can send the poster sats if you like their post.  Plain old likes are there too but when you really mean it...  for example:



Gigi has received a handful of regular likes, but another user has sent him 11 satoshis as a form of approval as well.  I need to dig into the numbers some and see if my theory holds up, but I believe Nostr has probably increased the traffic of LN micro-payments quite a bit.  And it just WORKS.  It is easy to set up, and easy to use.  Crazy easy.  You can send someone 1 sat.  Or 21, or 2100, or a million (as @jack was doing for a while).  You can easily set it up with a custodial wallet like WoS but you can also set it up using non-custodial wallets.  And it is NOT hard to set up or use.  It just uses LNURLs currently, but when we get to bolt12 it's gonna be even better.

2.  This synergy is what is going to make lightning really work.  This is the first real world proof of concept in production of a while new concept being enabled by lightning.  And it is catching on!  Yes we have been able to buy giftcards with lightning, and we can "stream sats" for podcasts, but those uses are still very niche.  THIS on the other hand is drawing in new users.  Political folk tired of the censorship tug of war on centralized social media platforms are starting to come to Nostr... and they are setting up lightning wallets and zapping each other.  New users to bitcoin.  Some who have never used the base layer at all.

This is honestly the first real virtuous circle use of the LN.  A real and thriving circular economy that is also a completedly new use case that never existed before.  And it is not only simple to use, keeping the bar for entry into this low enough for non techy folks, but it also will turn on a LOT of light bulbs for peoiple who have never thought much about what bitcoin is...

"You mean you can send me money... but there is no middle man, and once I have it it's mine, and I can do anything with it I want?  And no one can stop it?"

All of this happening RIGHT at the time where Elon and Mark are doing their stupid dick measuring contest over their closed, broken, sad attempts of becoming the wechat of the west?

the non-custodial service Pocket Bitcoin integrates the lightning network in your pay system.
Pocket allows you to buy Bitcoin once or recurringly from your bank account and receive your coins directly into any self-custody existing Bitcoin wallet of your choice.


https://pocketbitcoin.com/

Nostr is where this is happening currently.

First person to ping me on there who is "zappable" gets 1k sats.

npub1qktjyk0vdqlfss7wztawdnka5phx2p3vlvq50x0z402jk2fjhtnqlx9qas

I liked the digital camera/iPhone analogy.

Who could have imagined Instagram back in 1974?

I bet no one can imagine how Bitcoin/Lightning will look like in 50 years from now...

Lightning Network applications are built and we actually need more platforms, more business, more other applications to integrate available Lightning Network applications.

Like some peer to peer trading platforms which were shut down latest months, Paxful, LocalBitcoins. They have widgets to help other platforms to easily deploy and collaborate with them, to gain more users to to their platforms and trade there. All start with a widget.

I agree with you that adoption should be started with readiness to accept Lightning Network, then interact with available apps. Building new Lightning Network applications is not necessary.

Listening to an Italian podcast, I was introduced to this Longform:

We Need More Apps with Lightning, not More Lightning Apps

This is a very well-written article with an innovative thesis: we need more applications built with LN inside and not a better LN application.

The parallel is with digital cameras. Those objects were pretty good until 2007, it was the integration of a digital camera in the iPhone that was a game changer and allowed for a complete reinvention of the product. Not as per se, as before, but as an integrated layer on a bigger, more complex, product.

And this is key to shifting the lever to increase the usage of LN: not the ideology, but the utility. Utility, the ability to use something for a reason, is by far a more effective way of convincing someone to use something or orange-pilling as we speak of Bitcoin technologies.

That has been done.
Thank you!

Unlocking Bitcoin’s Potential: Santander Report Reveals Lightning Network’s Game-Changing Scalability
In a groundbreaking report released by Santander, one of Spain’s premier financial institutions, the transformative power of Bitcoin’s Lightning Network (LN) is unveiled, offering a solution to the long-standing scalability issues associated with the world’s leading cryptocurrency. This report, accessible to both crypto enthusiasts and the wider public, examines how LN’s decentralized network enables faster and more cost-effective transactions, poised to revolutionize the financial landscape.
Traditionally, Bitcoin has faced criticism due to its limited capacity to handle a significant volume of transactions in a short period. Visa, for instance, can process over 20,000 transactions per second, while Bitcoin’s blockchain lags behind with a mere 5-7 transactions per second. However, Santander’s report sheds light on the Lightning Network’s transformative capabilities, proving that it holds the key to overcoming this limitation.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thecurrencyanalytics.com/bitcoin/unlocking-bitcoins-potential-santander-report-reveals-lightning-networks-game-changing-scalability-57755.php/amp

.

I don’t know how I missed it, but Jameson Lopp has a resource page about Lightning Network.

LIGHTNING NETWORK RESOURCES

Adding to OP as well.

another step in the direction of education and integration of Bitcoin and ln


https://www.santander.com/en/stories/lightning-network-blockchain

https://www.santander.com/en/stories/what-is-bitcoin

Maybe just the tenth time in this particular topic?  It's honestly hard to keep track when he's having a meltdown about "subnetworks" (or, for sane people, "layer 2") in pretty much every thread.

Wait.  Has it really only been ten times?  Seems like more.

This statement is highly biased by the assumption that people only ever deposit or withdraw $2k+ to / from a centralized exchange.
Last I checked, a big portion of Bitcoin buyers actually like dollar-cost averaging, with the one big issue that they cannot economically viably withdraw their $10 daily buy if they have to pay $5 of on-chain and exchange fees every time. Therefore, they are stuck with having to accumulate BTC in the exchange wallet and withdrawing once a month or so.
Lightning deposits and withdrawals allow them to instantly retrieve their funds and get custody of them as quickly as possible.

If I want to quickly move thousands of $ of Lightning balance on-chain, I just close channels. Only one on-chain transaction per channel, and I'll have my funds on-chain in the next block. You're overblowing apparent 'issues' exponentially again, Franky.
Lightning is not perfect and is certainly not suited for every application, but there is no need to freak out over non-issues for the tenth time.

From what I can tell as an 'outsider', Kraken's Lightning integration did not have any substantial issues back in 2022. Bitfinex did it successfully, too.

firstly el salvador was not the only incident. its the only one you want to admit to
there were other projects toolike trying to get nigeria to be LN friendly but they have not fallen for the false promotions
also funny how coinbase a sister company to blockstream/BS cartel are staying as far away from lightning as possible.

heck you just have to look at what the regulators are saying about routers and AEC's to know what their suggestions about LN is

it wont be me single-handedly taking LN down. it will fall all by itself.

right now other subnetworks that have bridges to bitcoin have more value locked to it in just 2 years of operation compared to LN's 5 years. so its already falling short.
LN 5.4k  avalanche 6.3k as just one example. there are so many other subnetworks people are prefering. which just goes to show LN has lost. and no the other networks are not held up by 2k of locks by certain businesses sybil loading channels but not using channels just to fake a lock balance total, thats a game LN is playing though


yep many people that are peed off with bitcoins shinanigans(meme bloat and fee mania) are by-passing the LN preaches of salvation/the promised land.. and instead lock their value to use other subnetworks and play around with other units of measure on. thats how bad LN's promotions have gone.

but you seem too blind to see the flaws. that you have stopped even caring to want flaws fixed. as long as people buy into your god worship shit, you are happy.
your games dont need me to pull your stupidity apart. you do all that by yourself with your over ambitious promises that never come to fruition. your worship that doesnt change things. and your idolation that doesnt reap in rewards for you.

but i do laugh how you pretend to play fortnightly games of pretending to adore one thing then hate it then adore it again depending on your recruitment success/failure rate

goodluck with that. but so far for the last 7 years of your games you are still penny pinching small income so even you have to admit your games are not covering your living costs.. so sooner or later even you will have to get a real job

Planning ahead can potentially negate liquidity issues.  Just because Chivo was poorly planned and executed, that doesn't mean every new adoption will be. 

But feel free to keep highlighting that one incident for the rest of forever because you don't have any other arguments.  It doesn't look desperate at all.  Honest.   

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What do we reckon the odds are that fruitloop1 will still be trying to singlehandedly take down LN in 10 years?  He's clearly stubborn and belligerent enough.  I can see that ongoing disaster from a mile off.    

goodluck.. when they realise they have balance in binances channels of mansion amounts. but LN routing paths only succeed with pizza amounts

if only people could try for once to observe the limitations of LN to notice that you cant just move $2k+ around LN freely.
oh well we wil just see another liquidity bottleneck event confusing people and businesses much like the chivo LN incident a couple years ago.. when will people learn

locking a hot wallet into a channel.. pfft. but moving largish amounts out of that channel through other channels will be the head banger against a rock. when they realise the channels along the route cant facilitate that amount of liquidity

yea its a free promo/advert hype campaign to try to win new customers using binance instead of exchanges that dont offer the feature. but when people start to use it and realise the headaches and broken promises of it. they will learn fast

when you have a single carriage passenger train that has a capacity limit using rail lines that are broke in places.. and suddenly you want to say a superfast haulage train is to use the same broken tracks. you can see a disaster coming a mile away

it has now been leaked and also confirmed by the tweet below that the Binance exchange is now working on the implementation of ln. according to this, deposits and withdrawals will then be offered via the lightning network and thus be processed faster

https://twitter.com/binance/status/1671042638592589826
https://u.today/bitcoin-lightning-network-coming-to-binance-heres-proof

Voltage, a provider of lightning as a service (LaaS), is partnering with Google cloud to expand Bitcoin and lightning node hosting capabilities globally. the collaboration aims to optimize money transfers, global customer reach and microtransactions, thereby reducing costs.

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/business/voltage-partners-with-google-cloud-to-expand-lightning-solutions

https://blog.blockstream.com/core-lightning-v23-05-austin-texas-agreement-atxa/