Topic: Lightning Network Observer - page 12. (Read 12986 times)

Your description (Franky) seems to be both out of touch with reality - in terms of ongoing progress that is being made by the lightning network - including increased adoption (network effects) and increased development, and in terms of any kinds of challenges that come towards the building (or layering) of payments that are not onchain, but can be settled/resolved with onchain.. while at the same times have a whole hell of a lot of non-stoppability in terms of being able to send value (and even communicate) in ways that are similarly powerful as onchain, but surely having some differing dynamics in terms of some of the ways that transaction costs are calculated.. but also how payments may or may not be traced... even with both quasi-public and less public (private channels in which who the fuck is going to know about the transaction?).

You frequently come off as being nearly crazy (or is it "a nutjob"?) (with your seemingly ongoing passion for your point of view to be saying that you are supposedly "pro-bitcoin" but fighting so much against various aspects of bitcoin.., derailing productive discussions (even though you might sometimes make some interesting points, but still hard to read you when so ladened with emotions and then intermingled information that does not seem to be correct or is exaggerated in ways that are more distracting than they are helpful) like a no coiner, a bitcoin naysayer, a shitcoiner, or some dweeb like that ego-driven Roger Ver who could not (and perhaps still cannot) accept that the direction of bitcoin has been going in ways that differed from his various imposition-laden fantasy-landia preferences) because you are such a negative Nancy in regards to lightning network and even your various ongoing convoluted criticisms of segwit that seem to stem from desires 2017 blocksize war discussions that Segwit had not gone live.. and/or maybe you would be somewhat happy if whatever development(s) in bitcoin would be able to reach your stamp of approval.. and surely, by now you should realize that bitcoin no doesn't work like that.. we don't even have any benevolent dictators, even if you were the smartest guy in the room.. which does not even seem to be the case based on the kinds of battles that you ongoingly want to engage...

Do you have a phone?  or maybe some ways that you might interact with others using lightning network?   You gotta be trying to get your feet wet with this shit, rather than ongoingly making theoretical (no skin in the game observations) in order to really be attempting to learn and to show us that you are genuinely trying.

You seem to be quite a bit smarter than me in regards to some of the technical aspects of both lightning network and bitcoin too.., yet I can still see that sometimes (or is it frequently?) some of your criticizms are full of shit and seeming to want to lord over in regards to making things technical when there are some bigger questions, including just mere usability matters..

Sure, I will admit that I had not really even started to feel comfortable enough to really even attempt to get into LN until recently (largely I took some more concrete steps in around July or so - even though I had been trying to keep up with some of the lightning network threads, even since late 2017 when it was first becoming more popular to discuss and perhaps even moreso when it went live in a kind of rebellious and "premature" way due to some of the then spam attacks that seemed to have had been taking place through bigblockers or shitcoiners or bitcoin naysayers.. or who really knows who? but I do recall lightning network going live..and then the spam attacks pretty quickly subsiding.. along with the mempool getting cleared out over the following weeks.. ..  hahahahaha.. what drama we have around these parts..  ).. and also until there seems to be more justifications to have alternative ways to interact with bitcoin in a way that attempts to limit the use of third parties, or at least spreads out the various third parties in ways that they are not as likely to cut us off from being able to transact in bitcoin (if we were to want to or to need to).  Part of my point is that practice likely is a good thing, but I will also admit that there are a lot of folks who I had been trying to get to use lightning network and almost the best that I can find is someone willing to transact with CashApp.. which surely is quite far from decentralized.. even though it is one of the players that includes lightning network options that are likely somewhat easy to use, even though surely not decentralized..


Yep.. part of the reason that I want to go somewhat slowly.. and just see if I am going to be able to do any of those things.. and I do like some of the power of the descriptions of the Embassy (Start9's approach towards being able to run various apps through your own node), and I have heard several interviews of one of their founders (on various bitcoin only podcasts)... but still even just looking at the website.. it seems like it could have some difficulties to run on my computer.. but then another thing to actually buy one of their computers seems like one more of the things to hall around if I am traveling or even to have someone watch it (to turn it back on or whatever) if I were to leave it in one location while I am traveling.. Just something to keep learning about and some of us less technical folks would prefer plug and play, but there are risks with plug and play too.. .. and yeah, seems to take a while to figure out some ways to have some level of plug and play and at the same time have some confidence that others are reviewing the code and the various potential backdoors.

Then, by the same token, so have you.  The difference is that you have far less potential to evolve and grow (arguably none, as we've apparently reached peak-frank already).  Please enlighten us as to what you've achieved in the last 6 years.  Other than noise, what do you produce?  It sure as hell isn't code or good ideas.  You contribute nothing of value.

Conversely, LN has multiple independent dev teams.  Many people producing actual code.  They have impetus on their side and they continue to make advancements.  They don't whine, they create.  And they've already achieved far more than you ever will.  So maybe show just a little respect.

LN is far from a perfect solution.
Liquidity, routing and interface issues still make the usage of LN, albeit on a noncustodial way, still difficult for the average user.
Yet, I think it is an huge success, as the race is a marathon, to be won over the decades, not a sprint to be won in 6 years.

Lightning is complicated and not a very good options for the average user, that part I can understand very easily and honestly think the exact same.
However what are the flaws in the system that you talk about? Are those security issues or more usability issues?

Imagine TCP/IP, the most successful internetworking protocol:

I absolutely agree, each of us must respect our own times and running a lightning knot is not that easy.  The simplest solutions are plug and play ones like Umbrel, Embassy, ​​MyNode but they are not very stable.  As for Blixt it seems to me a little too immature, better breeze.

imagine if in 1997 there was a pre release of windows 98. but where you needed to run unix+dos+win98 just to get win98 to work. where it was not just 1 CD that just installed by itself.. and where 7 years later it still was not just one install

do you think window would have been as popular

imagine if win98 had ways to lose files and corrupt data and allow others to steal data and microsoft 6 years later didnt patch it. nor patch the updates(me/xp)
do you think people would have wanted windows ME, XP knowing they were just more colourful versions of the same flaw.

well LN has had 6 years of chances. but the flaws still exist and the more popular it gets the more flaws appear.

but all i see is lemmings promoting LN like its gods gift to currency even when el-salvador as a whole country tried it for a couple months and dropped it quick. and even now nigeria is not really pushing for it even though from all lemmings speeches, nigeria is supposed to be big on LN right now.. but reality is, its not

i think its time the lemmings realise that they are pulling a dead cow up a mountain. and realise their farming practices are not going to market, or if observed at market. get trashed soon after

there are many other subnetworks that peg btc far younger then LN that have gained more btc liquidity locks and actually move value with more secure locks than LN..
LN has failed the test of time, failed the test of monetary policy, failed value utility, and failed the test of security.. its time to accept it and make a new network without the flaws for your niche utility offerings. and stop pandering a decaying cow to a market that can smell that it stinks

people want fresh meat or meat they can trust. LN is and does neither

I had been thinking of responding to your post from about a month ago (mendace), and then I kind of forgot.. and still I had been doing a bit of searching around regarding what I wanted to do next, and surely there may be some time down the road when I end up wanting to run a lightning node.. or even a kind of easy-peasy (already mostly set up lightning node), but I feel that I need to walk before I run.. including probably running an actual bitcoin node first, prior to attempting to run a lighting node (even if it might be an already set up or an easy peasy version of a lightning node)... so in some sense, each of us likely have to attempt to go with our level of comfort - including that I have some other things that I am trying to take care of in terms of both my personal life and obligations and also just some other things that I am trying to take care of in terms of some of my coin management that has to do more with main chain ideas of locations and even some joint custody relations for some of the coins.

In this other post, that I link here that I just made in the BlueWallet Discussion thread, I described that I had at least downloaded both Breez and Phoenix in order to move my BlueWallet lightning network coins over to those two wallets.. and in that post, I mention how I am considering that might add Blixt Wallet onto my experimentation with lightning network wallets later too.. perhaps? perhaps?

I think you must be unfamiliar with this speakers sense of humor.

As far as I know it’s a privately organised event, entirely sponsored by a (wealthy) private individual.
If I am not mistaken the first edition took place right after the PlanB Lugano event last year.

Interesting pity that the congress was closed to guests only and not to the public otherwise I would have gone willingly.  There was really a lot of quality.

Yet another WEF trojan horse?

Payment privacy is "unimportant stuff"?

But how can you stand his incredible accent!

(just kidding... just kidding... I know I know)

Zucco's talk provides interesting insight into the future of the Lightning Network and its potential impact on the Bitcoin industry. He discusses the various players in the Lightning scene, including Slashtags, Nostr, and Greenlight, and highlights the relationships between them.

The Lightning Network has the potential to increase the speed and efficiency of Bitcoin transactions, making it a promising solution to the scalability challenges facing the Bitcoin network. However, there are still some challenges to overcome, such as user adoption and network security.

My Opinion Overall, Zucco's talk was an insightful and informative look at the state of the Lightning Network and its potential impact on the Bitcoin industry. As the Lightning Network continues to grow and gain traction, it will be interesting to see how it develops and how it impacts the broader cryptocurrency ecosystem.

---

Oh, I can imagine that credit card war room getting hot! It's always a tough pill to swallow when a gaming software house steps in and steals the show. But that's just the nature of the game. As for regulators, let's just say they might need a bit of a crash course in the gaming industry.

Either way, it's clear that the landscape is changing and it's up to the banks to adapt if they want to stay in the game.

A very interesting presentation by Giacomo Zucco, her last week in Viareggio:

The State of Lightning Network - Giacomo Zucco @ Lightning Summit Viareggio 2023


3


Please note this is a copy of the streaming session, so quality is not great.

Slides are available here.

Interesting, too bad I'm not a fan of Zebedee.  I don't like their LN wallet because it's custodial and because there are too many things that could do without it.  If only they would commit to continuing the OBW fork

I am now wondering what happening in the credit cards war rooms,  where they are discussing how a gaming software House basically stripped their business away from them.

Banks will realize tomorrow.
Regulators cannot even understand what we are talking about.

I fixed your (above) quoted image cygan.

You must have had been drunk when you posted it..

hahahahaha

Substantively, I like that message since it sounds like a good development in terms of making lightning payments easier and more widely available.

https://twitter.com/BTC_Archive/status/1640719353414033408

and here the official announcement👉https://blog.zebedee.io/zebedee-borderless-payments/