Topic: [LIKELY SCAM] Antminer group buy - page 8. (Read 16440 times)

Uh, why are you speaking for the host. Your way, you benefit while the host gets screwed and does all the leg work. Zero incentive for the host to stay honest. Just stop. If the host is willing to do it your way, then he is dumb. Why would he do all the work for you to profit while he makes scraps? No incentive.  My way, shorten the term, collect the guaranteed fee, sell the equipment.  He definitely profits while you hope to ROI. It's called risk. The host will have zero risk. He gets paid. The shareholders take on the risk while the host does the work. Duh.

Really. Because when people is insisting on a topic makes me mad.
I understand that you might think that this is a scam. Stop repeating that.
In my opinion this isn't a scam, before investing I calculated my cut and his cut and I saw that this will bring benefits to both of us

A flat fee as lowerjerzey is proposing makes the lease not worth anymore after 60 days, and after 60 days the shares won't pay back.
lowerjerzey, are you an expert in hosting mining rigs? Do you have experience? How many rigs do you manage?

Suppose a flat fee of $25 per each antminer
this is what a shareholder will get after paying the fee:
march: 0.08 BTC
april: 0.39 BTC
may: 0.25 BTC
june: 0.14 BTC
july: 0.08 BTC
august: 0.03 BTC
september: 0
october: not worth

Total: the shareholder just wasted its time, he will get just 0.97 BTC back after 6 months. Great ROI!!!

Exactly. I totally wrecked this sale and Forexperiments has more to say than the host. Weird.

Buyers remorse, I get it.
3BTC                $1800 -
15 decent psu's  $1500
1 16 port switch $ 150
15 decent fans   $ 150
miscellaneous     $ pick a number

total                 $0 -  pick a number

or he's a terrible host buying terrible equipment

3BTC                $1800 -
15 crap psu's     $1000
1 crap switch     $ 75
15 crap fans      $ 75
miscellaneous     $ pick a number

total                 $650 - pick a number

If he bought crap equipment, then he definitely sucks.

There is the possibility of redemption. You can have your dream of hosting hardware, but do it right.
1. Refund all sold shares.
2. Set a flat fee in fiat. <-this gains trust and guarantees you a profit. A diminishing percentage doesn't.
3. Under cut competitors but still make it worth your while.
4. Set a shorter term limit. 6 months is too long. Do maybe 3, or even 2.
5. Pay yourself weekly from the pot. Convert your fee to btc, then take that amount. Divvy out the rest.
6. Transparency is key. Disclose how you obtain your "free electricity". If it's through a landlord, you are definitely going to have a problem.
7. Make guarantees.  Do you have backup equipment? Are you paying for down time? What if you die, who takes over?
8. Take advise from others. This is your biggest problem.

Sorry man, but I called you out and you didn't like it. You were blinded by the excitement of starting your farm and selling shares. You didn't fully think this through and you half assed the terms, the price, payout, and share management. I came off harsh and punched you in your pride and you got highly offended, understandable. But, you can be redeemed. Suck it up, take my advise, and start over.

Or, this is a scam.

Do you? Really?

And you have invested BTC0.14 and are backing this guy up more than he does himself?

So are you saying that 8 good PSU (or 15 cheap psu) and ONE 16 port switch are worth $1800?

I have no idea who's this guy

Why won't I call that guy out, because that sale is dumb. He's selling 1Gh/s shares of 1 antminer for crumbs. Dumb. If someone is stupid enough to buy shares, they deserve to throw away coins. As for this sale, this guy does seem to have a decent farm. But, the terms of his sale and the management of the shares are asinine and anyone considering this should be warned. I warned them. Done.

BEWARE!!! This host has no incentive to keep hosting for 6 months.
May abandon shareholders.
Read my posts!

Is my claim really ridiculous?
How do you know who minewithmind is?

Buyers remorse, I get it.  Your calculation is wrong. He paid 15 BTC, he makes 15 BTC from sales, profit so far = zero. Mining, ok I'll give you 3 BTC, fine.  3BTC - psu's - switches - wires - fans - probably those shelves - miscellaneous = zero profit so far.  If he sells all his shares, he no longer owns those antminers.  What he does own is 8% of the mining, 15 psu's, 15 fans, and a bunch of miscellaneous hardware clear and free, with no profit made thus far.  The diminishing 8% or 0.021BTC per day is no incentive for him to keep hosting. In 11 days, if the total hashrate trend doesn't change, his 8% turns into 0.017BTC per day. It's all downhill from here. In a month from now, I bet it will be 0.009. You really think that this guy will want to continue to host for peanuts. Your fooling yourself and so is he.


BEWARE!!! This host has no incentive to keep hosting for 6 months.
May abandon shareholders.
Read my posts!

Watch out, we have a grammar nazi here
OP is clearly not from an english-speaking country (I have no idea which though)

My take is 0.14 BTC for 5 shares
I paid because what btcmin0r1 wrote gave me trust. I took a calculator and I saw that his group buy has gains for the seller and the shareholders, while most of the group buys (with hosting included) has gains only for the seller (ninja) or has gains only for the shareholder and hence it is scam


LOL, this claim is ridiculous

"your" is the wrong way of writing it.
It is You Are.
Your(s) implies to something that belongs to you.
Also, btcmin0r1 you are quite new your self, so don't start the newbie discussion.

That being said, this thread has attracted my attention and I must say this:

@Forexperiments what is your take in this? apart from 5 shares which means jack shit.
I have also noticed that you are Italian and also registered at more or less the same time as OP.
Are you the same person?
Apart from that, ARE YOU minewithmind but with a new username and scheme?
If you are, you obviously got lot's of coins from your previous scam so you could buy 15 Ants.
And if you are, apparently you are getting too greedy.
Not good....

I could be wrong here, but somehow my experience tells me that lowerjerzey is right.

 

Ok, since lowerjerzey is an asshole, I explain how this can be profitable for bitmin0r1:

Assuming he sells all the shares today, he makes 16.5 BTC, 15 BTC from the shares and 1.5 from the 8% fee
When he bought them? Two weeks ago? That means he made 3 BTC. So, 3 BTC + 15 BTC from the shares + 1.5 BTC from the 8% fee
19.5 BTC paying 15 BTC, and, most importantly, getting most of the money RIGHT NOW, not after 140 days!!!
Here is the ROI you're searching for!

PSU costs? That costs are fixed, they can be used for the next miner or somewhere else!

Moreover, not all slots are sold: on unsold shares, his cut is 100%. This means the output from ELEVEN antminers is going to his pockets. It's 0.2 BTC for every day!

Happy now? Now that you got the cost analysis and saw that it's profitable, you can send me the cost of a share. Thanks
1CmUws4kMJTEdCSgEAKvFKdTEkK6CZAbqQ

lowerjerzey, nobody asked your opinion
go to this post to dispense your wisdom and GTFO
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5847577


for everyone else: do this:

I think I agree with lowerjerzey
This group buy makes no sense unless it is a scam.

I post so no one buys shares. It's actually to protect him and potential buyers who aren't thinking clearly. Mission accomplished. His 8% is actually zero. I think I explained why it is zero pretty clearly.  What he's made so far in BTC probably only paid off the psu's so the antminers aren't paid for. He's in denial of this and so are you because you actually bought shares. He's doing it wrong and you know it. Look at my first post and read the first sentence.


Too generous to the point of idiocy. He's working for free and has all the incentive in the world to abandon his shareholders. Ninja's hosting is spot on. He's doing it right. He's providing a service for a flat fee, thus, guaranteeing his own payment.  He lays out all the ground rules and sets reasonable time frames. He has backups(he sell's s1's) and makes guarantees. If you don't think it is profitable, then don't buy from him.  But, he does sell out.  His 1Th $3300 + $199 is actually a great deal but only if the miners get delivered in the advertised time frame. The risk a purchaser is taking is in the waiting for delivery. If he had them in hand, I would have bought one.

You're lucky you only bought 5 shares. Just hope that the antminer connected to your shares(this is so dumb) doesn't break down. I see no guarantee of him replacing it.  He doesn't have backups because I asked him and he didn't say that he does.

I know you feel the remorse and feel the need to defend this, it won't last, stop denying it. And if it does, that is great. But that makes btcmin0r1 the stupidest, but generous host I've ever seen.

Just in case there are new people reading this and tl;dr

BEWARE!!! This host has no incentive to keep hosting for 6 months.
May abandon shareholders.
Read my posts!

+1... go troll elsewhere lowerjerzey

lowerjerzey WTF
why you insist on this post so much?
go to bug other topics.
For example there's a guy who is selling shares of an antminer, and then he will do free hosting with no profit whatsoever. And he didn't order the machine yet.
Why don't you go there to give your great opinion?

it's all a question of demand and offer.
If he charges a flat fee for hosting, then it's not profitable for shareholders after 2 months, and an antminer needs at least 4-5 months to ROI.
Consider that he has now 15 antminer and he's using most of them for his own mining (the first month is the most valuable)
So, if someone else gets 36 shares, btcmin0r1 has already made a profit from that antminer (suppose 0.2 BTC) + full ROI + 8%
Here is his profit!
It's not, like many others are doing, gather money first, and then starting mining. His setup is already working!

You're such an analyst, go to tell your valuable opinion on the ninja group buy topic
1 TH for $3300 + $250 monthly.
It's a great offer for him, but not for shareholders, it's impossible to get money back with that insane hosting fees.

Um, he didn't make 15BTC he made zero. He's only getting the equipment paid for. But, he's still in the red. Don't forget the psu's, extra fans, wire, switches, and the biggest cost, time. The miner won't make any return until he sells it. Even then, the prices of the s1 are dropping significantly so you can count that out. In a few months, the s1 is a door stopper. He's living in a fantasy world. He has this grandiose idea of hosting hardware, but so far he's doing a piss poor job. His pricing is bad(for him) and the way he's handling his shares is idiotic. Why would anyone want to buy shares with such poor management? This has abandonment written all over it.


Don't forget you have a post history.  You haven't owned these that long.  You tried to buy a cube in January and may have bought from sushi in Feb. That's a BIG maybe because you were asking him when they will become available again, so you probably missed the window. You talk about Bitmain coupons a few weeks ago, so yeah, I'd say you've owned these for a couple weeks.  So, you did probably only pay roughly 1BTC for each from Bitmain and you haven't made that much BTC in the past couple weeks. So in the time frame of you owning these, you might have paid 2 off.  Big deal, you own 15 of them.

I think I made my point over and over again and doubt anyone with half a brain will buy shares from you. Why?

you = zero incentive to host for 6 months because your ROI is essentially zero(a diminishing 8% is essentially zero because you do have other costs)
a potential shareholder = shouldn't trust that you will honor the 6 months while you work for free
people who already bought shares = buyers remorse

I truly feel sorry for you. You do not know what you are doing.