Topic: Liquid Synergy Designs Inc. -ASIC mining hardware - page 12. (Read 423220 times)

Actually, this seems very helpful to me. To know that he is working on refunds that take quite a long time to handle due to the complexity really helps ease my mind to know that he is still there... and fish! I've been waiting for a cash withdrawal from MtGox for about 3 months now because they have to manually process everyone's withdrawals due to a bank back log. And i'm still waiting for that. So, things aren't as easy as they may seem. There are a number of things that must be done for refunds such as calculating how much to refund (based on the ~$120 per BTC conversion), and what exactly was sent to him from each and every person and for what did they purchase exactly that is or is not to be refunded; and he has to do this thru looking up transaction id's in the liquidsynergydesigns website, and there are likely many other things that I can't even think of that could be involved with further complicating the refund process.

...In other words, try running your own business, you may be saying "Hey, I'm gonna do this and that and this and that, because I know what is the right thing to do cause I've seen what wrong people like Steamboat have done, and that ridiculous store down the street doesn't know how to run their franchise either!! MEAHH!!" and then once you're placed in that position, you realize you can't really do what you thought because things that you couldn't even imagine beforehand arise--i.e. this is also why most people don't have the balls to open up their own businesses because they feel they must know exactly how everything must work out completely for the business to work. But, you can't predict or know everything that may happen. You just have to go with what you can do with what you got, and tackle situations as they come.

Sorry, didn't ask about that. I presume that is all part of what he is working on, but I didn't ask since I don't have any hosted with him.

alfabitcoin & nightengale:

I'm just telling it to you the way I see it. Am I 100% confident SB is going to come through with the assembly/hosting/shipping refunds? No. Do I think SB's lack of updates on the forum is a mistake? Yes. But I also understand why he chooses not to enter the shitstorm. After all, if he really does come through with the refunds he outlined then I think 99% of us will be happy and all the problems go away. So he has 2 choices: enter the shitstorm, be dragged down into it, or just work on the refunds knowing that if he makes it right in the end then almost all will be forgiven.

As to if he is a scammer or not, I think it is pretty clear his original intentions were good and he has had his startup cluster bombed by Yifu's thievery. If you look at the history of what has transpired you'll see that so far he has made good on his promises *with* the exception of being slow and not giving frequent enough updates. If he was purely a scammer we obviously wouldn't have seen the chip refunds and he wouldn't have shipped the miners that have shipped.

So now the question is: will he really provide the refunds he outlined in his December post? Based on my phone conversation with him, I think the answer is he is working on it. If he had already decided to walk away from everything he wouldn't have called me. We all know this isn't going to be swept under the rug by time if he doesn't fulfill the refunds.

I'm willing to be patient though and see what happens over the next few weeks. If you want to start the lawsuits, label him a scammer, etc., then go for it. I think it might end up being wasted energy (and $$) but that is my judgement of the situation only. I remember a lot of the exact same people were convinced he was not going to give us are chip refunds (because it took a long time), but in the end those did come through...

-dmc

Any info on hosted miners?

So... SB BS'd you over the phone for about an hour and now you're telling us about it.

Huh. Not seeing how this is helpful.

Thanks dmc.
However steamboat to have the time chating with individual members but can not log here is just wrong! He has no excuse.
He dare to prolong refunds to be silent, to lie in rare updates but he is afraid even to login and say something himself??
Iam not naive and he is a scammer, its that simple!
Its abou honesty and face. Come hereand face your problems and issues. That is how honest guy should behave.
His behavior only show that hes hiding and does not care! Meanwhile time is going by....
This is worst what he can do, that is a prove enough of his intregrity.

I invite you all to publish about this anywhere you can. We let him go before, but what is enough is enough!!
I say this open, my friends will visit him and collect what he owe me.

Yes, thank you. I'm still holding out hope as well as SB came through for us in the past.

Thanks for the update and level headedness.

I called SB this morning and left a message. He called back within an hour and we had a nice long talk.

I know to say patience is wearing thin here is a gross understatement, but my impression after talking to him: 1) first and foremost, he is still around and hasn't run off somewhere, 2) he is working on getting the refund process setup so he can perform the assembly/hosting/shipping refunds outlined in his last email, 3) doing step #2 is more complicated than what you might assume (as a small business owner, I can sympathize greatly with this point), 4) he really wants to get the refunds behind him so he can move on, 5) he isn't active on the forum because he knows it is a shitstorm here and it will just slow him down (and frankly be depressing) from getting the only thing done that will truly appease everyone: getting the refunds processed.

My advice: put the pitchforks down for another couple of weeks and let's see how this plays out. Everyone's patience is thin (mine included), but I still do have some optimism this one is going to work itself out in the end.

-dmc

I wonder where is member unaceptable? He know sb in person and defened him many times. He was very active in forum.
Steve is a scammer in my book and now he has not even one excuse like before with yifu screw up.

Steve return our money !!!!!! You are dishnest liar!

The event and timeline Cardcomm references really interested me, so here is a quick overview:

March 12th, 2013 loan sent from Steamboat to guy in the amount of BTC1.5.  Repayment amount BTC2.
Loan Due March 19th in full.
March 19th, loan not repaid.
March 21st, guy asks for extension.  Steamboat Agrees.
Loan still BTC1.5, but repayment is now BTC3.28.
Back and forth for several weeks.
April 8th, 2013 Steamboat advises loan in 'default'
April 15th, 2013, Steamboat threatens to release info onto internet in two days if not repaid.
April 19th, 2013, info released.  (Drivers license and Self-Photo to prove hes real to Steamboat)
April 22nd, 2013, Steamboat publicly decides its not worth harassing his friends and family over the lost BTC


May 1st, 2013, This thread and Liquid Synergy Designs are born.  Maybe he has a nice mansion in a USA-extradition exempt country.  I'd love to see pictures of it.

Can we petition a moderator to assign him a scammer tag? This is really beyond the pale what is going on. Updates several times a week when he's taking your money, and now that he's still promising refunds, he hasn't been on the forum for weeks.

He does have SOME negative trust, but not as much as I'd expect:
Trust:   -1: -1 / +1(1)
Warning: Trade with extreme caution!

Here's a comical bit from his profile:
Signature:
ASIC miners available for purchase

Those who serve best, profit most.
BTW, Steamboat's last appearance on this board was: December 20, 2013, 05:46:22 AM

Also of interest in his trust rating - Steamboat left negative feedback on someone who he claims stole 1.5 BTC from him. In that thread, Steamboat posted the guy's photo ID and a snapshot of himself the guy obviously sent him. For some reason that really pisses me off! Steamboat posted this guys photo ID on the internet for stealing what was then less than $60.00 U.S. Then he turns around and pulls this shit on us?!

I realize now EVERY single one of us should have insisted on getting a copy of Steamboat's photo ID before giving him one satoshi!!! I'm so pissed right now after seeing that thread! What a jerk! I don't even care about the money anymore. I'm just ready to make life difficult for this scammer. What a prick!

same as Josh from BFL has +1 Trust ... and im not kidding

How has nobody left bad feedback on his trust rating here yet?  Every single person that feels cheated needs to add negative feedback with notes stating they will remove it once everything has been handled accordingly.  This is literally the only real option any of you have right now to penalize steamboat for not processing refunds and/or hosted miner payouts.

Also, the Google Plus profile for "Sp Manos" shows a different photo of that same person. That person has also links to at least one thread on https://bitcointalk.org

There may be a father and son, but my bet is that they are in this together. I'm sure the FTC will figure that out in the course of their investigation...

BTW, has anyone PM'ed any of the admin staff here to see if the know what happened to John K? It seems strange he left so suddenly - perhaps something has happened to him :/

i bet that now, he will post another update with some "soon" stuff

Not a wise decision to screw over or piss off a group of people who are becoming increasingly wealthy. Eventually the cost of legal action will be substantially less than what is owed to an individual in this group buy. I'm sure those who ordered large orders already have the means to pursue legal action. The whole "I'm too busy organizing things" line has lost all meaning as you've had more than enough time to sort things out by now.

A short trip to the BFL thread(s) should yield plenty of links and information on this situation.  Funny enough, all the BS from these group buys and pre-orders has resulted in thousands of people know what the laws are. 

Someone that "wishes to remain anonymous" has stated to me via PM that Steamboat is the son (presumably Steve N. Manos) and that the person in the photograph is "the father" (presumably Steven P Manos).

Google seems to think that the email address [email protected] belongs to Steven P Manos. The business physically located at the address specified in the domain registration is a tile business that also appears to belong to Mr. Steven P Manos.
( Recall that some of the photos of supplies posted by Steamboat seem to show the items being stored in a tile shop of some kind.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=192916.1400 )

At this point it isn't entirely clear to me if Steamboat is Steven P Manos, Steven N Manos, or both. My initial reaction is that given the email and physical address sharing that has been done, it's going to be tough to legally separate either of them from this mess… Personally I think they are in it together. Almost certainly they both know the situation.

EDIT: Here is an interesting link with a lot of info on the Federal Trade Commission requirements governing online sellers:

http://www.business.ftc.gov/documents/bus02-business-guide-mail-and-telephone-order-merchandise-rule

A couple of snippets:

What Does the Rule Cover?
It applies to most goods a customer orders from the seller by mail, telephone, fax, or on the Internet. It does not matter how the merchandise is advertised, how the customer pays, or who initiates the contact.

What is the Mail or Telephone Order Rule?
The Rule requires that when you advertise merchandise, you must have a reasonable basis for stating or implying that you can ship within a certain time. If you make no shipment statement, you must have a reasonable basis for believing that you can ship within 30 days. That is why direct marketers sometimes call this the "30-day Rule."

If, after taking the customer’s order, you learn that you cannot ship within the time you stated or within 30 days, you must seek the customer’s consent to the delayed shipment. If you cannot obtain the customer’s consent to the delay -- either because it is not a situation in which you are permitted to treat the customer’s silence as consent and the customer has not expressly consented to the delay, or because the customer has expressly refused to consent -- you must, without being asked, promptly refund all the money the customer paid you for the unshipped merchandise.