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Topic: LoyceV's Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system - page 9. (Read 13231 times)

member
Activity: 207
Merit: 13

Do's and Don'ts
Don't leave positive feedback for your own alt account (use neutral comments for this).
Don't leave negative feedback when someone violates the forum rules. Instead, use Report to moderator for rule violations.
Do leave mutual neutral feedback if you want to show which alt account(s) belong to you.
Don't leave (negative) feedback based on retaliation.
Don't leave (positive) feedback just because someone left it to you.



Hello,

Thanks to OP for bringing this standard guide for Trust system where newbie like us can learn a lot about forum. How to operate and how to deal with other members.

But my question is, Do other members, especially senior and experienced member really follow this rules and respect forum's tool ?

You will understand if you see the trust rating in my profile, with Reference. I was negative tagged just for some Silly Forum mistakes, which I was not even warned

Regards
legendary
Activity: 2016
Merit: 2169
Professional Community manager
As LoyceV said above, trust score is visible, just not on all boards
Why is it so hidden?
It's only public on boards where users are more exposed to trades with other members. One is more likely to enter into a trade in the trading discussion board than here in the beginner's and help section, so it's visible on the former, but not the latter.
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
Have a doubt here if trust gives us so much of information on a account then why is it not visible like the way merits and activity is visible. Why is it so hidden?
The Trust list itself is hidden, but the result of your own Trust list is visible in every user's Trust score (just not on all boards).
newbie
Activity: 25
Merit: 1
Have a doubt here if trust gives us so much of information on a account then why is it not visible like the way merits and activity is visible. Why is it so hidden?
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
I have translated to my local board (Malaysia) here the thread [GUIDE] Panduan pemula untok gunekan Trust sistem yang betol oleh LoyceV
Thanks, I've added it to the OP.
hero member
Activity: 966
Merit: 801
Hi LoyceV,

I have translated to my local board (Malaysia) here the thread [GUIDE] Panduan pemula untok gunekan Trust sistem yang betol oleh LoyceV

If any update on your thread, I'll keep sure to update my thread too. Thank you for the amazing explanation about Trust system, it's make me more clear about the difference and how to use it properly Smiley
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
I think the trust feedback and the trust flags seem to be the same. So what's the need to have this two things?
What's the differences between trust feedback and trust flags?
See Trust flags. One of the differences is that Trust Flags show a warning (in some cases) for visitors without an account, while feedback is only visible after you login.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 556
I think the trust feedback and the trust flags seem to be the same.

No, it's not same
Trust feedback is you giving feedback to an account, you can express your opinion about someone trustworthiness (already expalined by @LoyceV). Trust feedback will not show in the thread who because it's subjective trust.

And trust flags is created to "warn" people to not trade from that's user who has get flags since that's user is high risk of losing money.

You can create flags without give trust feedback or vice versa. So the best way is create both of them, trust feedback to make sure the account is scam or have bad reputation and trust flags for warn people to trade since that's account is scam or have bad reputation, it will have chance of losing money

It's all about my opinion


full member
Activity: 333
Merit: 105
www.cd3d.app
This is a great guide to understanding the trust system. But I saw a profile where there is no trust feedback but there is a trust flag.



I think the trust feedback and the trust flags seem to be the same. So what's the need to have this two things?
What's the differences between trust feedback and trust flags?
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
What's the rationale behind saying it is OK for someone to include their alt account in their trust list? If the person adding their alt account is on DT1, that automatically makes their alt DT2, which is arguably more significant of an outcome than an alt including their main account. Just want to know what the thinking behind this is.
The only reason this would be bad, is if you tag someone from both accounts. That would lead to double the negative (or positive) power, which would be Trust abuse.
As long as you only tag users from either one of the accounts, I can't think of any reason why this would be bad. You trust your alt's judgement, so you want to see your alt's ratings by default.

I use LoyceMobile to tag scammers, but "the easy way" without creating a proper reference topic. Most of them get Nuked anyway. LoyceMobile was on DT2 for a while, but not anymore.
I didn't include LoyceMobile because I use it to leave positive feedback when I don't want to add DT-power to it.

I know that the risk of a (mobile) alt being compromised is larger than the main account, but if that ever happens it can quickly be excluded from DT2.
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 7892
Hi Loyce I have a question about this item:

  • It's okay to include your alt-account on your own Trust list. This means you trust the feedback you left from that account. Example:
    Quote
    hilariousandco Trusts these users' judgement:
    7. hilariousetc (Trust: +3 / =1 / -0) (1725 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
  • Don't include your main account from your alt account(s). This could influence DT1-voting, and although that's not part of this guide, it's bad.

What's the rationale behind saying it is OK for someone to include their alt account in their trust list? If the person adding their alt account is on DT1, that automatically makes their alt DT2, which is arguably more significant of an outcome than an alt including their main account. Just want to know what the thinking behind this is.
legendary
Activity: 1960
Merit: 1908
Marketing Campaign Manager |Telegram ID- @LT_Mouse
Edit- Unfortunately the post is deleted now. I do not know the reason.
The post doesn't show in modlog. If you didn't delete it, it must have been the owner of the self-moderated thread. You should probably ask for the reason, if it gets deleted again there's no point linking it here.
I didn't delete it.
The thread owner also didn't. He is not active in bitcointalk from Feb 11, I have posted on February 12 and post was deleted on Feb 12 too. So, he didn't delete it too. I have received delete notification at Feb 12, 09:01:05 PM.
I created a thread here- https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.53827254
Now unlocking it.
edit- it is presented in the modlog, see the yellow one.
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
Edit- Unfortunately the post is deleted now. I do not know the reason.
The post doesn't show in modlog. If you didn't delete it, it must have been the owner of the self-moderated thread. You should probably ask for the reason, if it gets deleted again there's no point linking it here.

Update: my mistake, I searched for the msgID in modlog, but modlog doesn't show those.
legendary
Activity: 1960
Merit: 1908
Marketing Campaign Manager |Telegram ID- @LT_Mouse
Hello LoyceV, sorry that I have taken a huge time than I should. It was because I was a little busy IRL, could not spend much time on PC. Have sent a PM to our thread moderator to update the thread with linking the guide.

ট্রাস্ট সিস্টেমের সঠিক ব্যবহার

Edit- Unfortunately the post is deleted now. I do not know the reason. I will update the post once I post again.
Edit new link- ট্রাস্ট সিস্টেমের সঠিক ব্যবহার
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
In another topic, theymos shared his view of the Trust system:
LoyceV's guide seems reasonable.

The system is for handling trade risk, not for flagging people for good/bad posts/personalities/ideas.

In part, the idea of the system is to organically build up & enforce a community consensus on appropriate trading behavior. However, those parts of the consensus which have less agreement should be more difficult to apply than those parts which have widespread agreement, and also subject to change. Everyone agrees that if Alice promises Bob 1 BTC for $8000 and doesn't pay it, that warrants flags & ratings, and it should be very easy to create these flags and ratings. If Alice promotes something without disclosing that she was paid to do so, and the thing later turns out to be a scam, then 65% of the community will call this highly shady behavior, and 35% will call it not a contractual violation and therefore more-or-less fine; it may be possible to make flags and/or ratings stick, but the people doing so should feel as though they are on less solid ground, and maybe the community consensus on this will shift against them (depending on the exact facts of the case, politicking by interested parties, etc.). I refuse to set down a single "correct" philosophy on ethical behavior, since this would permanently divide & diminish the community, and I am not such a wise philosopher that I feel the moral authority to do so.

For ratings and type-1 flags, proactive scam-hunting is good! But as explained above, if you're acting near the edge of community consensus, it should be more difficult. If the community is not overwhelmingly behind you on your scam hunting, then it's probably going to end up creating more drama, division, paranoia, and tribalism than the possible scam-avoidance benefit is worth.

Ratings

 - Leave positive ratings if you actively think that trading with this person is safer than with a random person.
 - Leave negative ratings if you actively think that trading with the person is less safe than with a random person.
 - Unstable behavior could very occasionally be an acceptable reason for leaving negative trust, but if it looks like you're leaving negative trust due to personal disagreements, then that's inappropriate. Ratings are not for popularity contests, virtue signalling, punishing people for your idea of wrongthink, etc.
 - Post-flags, ratings have less impact. It's only an orange number. Some amount of "leave ratings first, ask questions later" may be OK. For example, if you thought that YoBit was a serious ongoing scam, the promotion of which was extremely problematic, then it'd be a sane use of the system to immediately leave negative trust for everyone wearing a YoBit signature. (I don't necessarily endorse this viewpoint or this action: various parts of the issue are highly subjective. But while I wouldn't blame people for excluding someone who did this, I wouldn't call it an abuse of the system.)
 - Exercise a lot of forgiveness. People shouldn't be "permanently branded" as a result of small mistakes from which we've all moved past. Oftentimes, people get a rating due to unknowingly acting a bit outside of the community's consensus on appropriate behavior, and such ratings may indeed be appropriate. But if they correct the problem and don't seem likely to do it again, remove the rating or replace it with a neutral. Even if someone refuses to agree with the community consensus (ie. they refuse to back down philosophically), if they're willing to refrain from the behavior, their philosophical difference should not be used to justify a rating. For example, in the YoBit mass-ratings example above, ratings should be immediately removed after the person removes the signature, even if they maintain and continue to argue that they didn't do anything wrong. If someone agrees to "follow 'the law' without agreeing to it", that should be enough.
 
Flags

 - Use flags only for very serious and clear-cut things. They're an expression of ostracizing someone from the community due to serious, provable misconduct or really obvious red flags.
 - Use type-1 flags when the message which will be shown to newbies/guests is appropriate: "the creator of this topic displays some red flags which make them high-risk. [...] you should proceed with extreme caution."
 - Use type-2 and type-3 flags only if the person is absolutely guilty of contractual violations. Imagine a legal system in which there is no law but contract law, and consider if this person would owe damages.

Trust lists

 - If you find someone who has sent accurate trust actions and has no inaccurate/inappropriate trust actions, add them to your trust list. Inclusion in trust lists is a more a mark of useful contributions than your trust in them, though at least a little trust is necessary.
 - If you think that someone is not using the trust system appropriately, or if you disagree with some of their subjective determinations, exclude them from your trust list. If bad outcomes happen in DT, this is partly the fault/responsibility of: the bad actors themselves; DT1 who include the bad-actors; DT1 who don't exclude the bad-actors; DT1 who include or don't exclude failing DT1; anyone else who includes failing DT1. While it's best to spend some time trying to fix things at the lower levels before escalating it, it's reasonable to complain to any of those people, as I did regarding Lauda that one time, for example. (Of course, the system itself is probably also imperfect, and that's on me.)
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
The link is not working. Maybe the moderator has deleted all of Zabira's posts. I think user Zabira had posted something copy paste yesterday or the day before which is the reason.
I've updated the link to my archived version. Zabira was Nuked indeed.

Quote
The translation was not proper because most of the part was automated translation. I will translate and share the link with you.
It's a risk I took when meriting a translated post from a Newbie in a language I can't read.
legendary
Activity: 1960
Merit: 1908
Marketing Campaign Manager |Telegram ID- @LT_Mouse
I have translated this topic in Bengali.
Thanks, I've added your link to the OP.
The link is not working. Maybe the moderator has deleted all of Zabira's posts. I think user Zabira had posted something copy paste yesterday or the day before which is the reason.
The translation was not proper because most of the part was automated translation. I will translate and share the link with you.
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
I have translated this topic in Bengali.
Thanks, I've added your link to the OP.



I'm proud to see 12 translations so far, I can only assume that means many users think this is valuable information to read.
full member
Activity: 693
Merit: 120
I have translated and posted your topic on Romanian local-board:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ghidul-incepatorilor-pentru-folosirea-corecta-a-sistemului-trust-loycev-5216279
I'll make sure to keep it updated if there's any in the future.
Good job!
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
I have been thinking for a while that it would be fun, and possibly even productively educational, to create a big online test/quiz about all of the various systems, etiquette, and history of Bitcointalk..
If you create a topic for this, you can use Merit as an incentive for correct answers, but that means the answer will be instantly visible.

Another thing that would be good, is if more users get involved in the Flag system. Currently, there are only 2027 users who Created, Supported, Opposed or are the Subject of a Flag.
It would be good if more different users take the time to pick a Flag, read through the Reference thread, and Support or Oppose the Flag. Currently, only very few users are active in judging Flags, which makes it quite centralized.
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