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Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 706. (Read 3917468 times)

hero member
Activity: 752
Merit: 500
bitcoin hodler
Franchising is already bigger than in-house mining!  Shocked (exaggerating, of course ;-) )

http://blockchain.info/address/1HtUGfbDcMzTeHWx2Dbgnhc6kYnj1Hp24i

713,2 BTC in last few hours. Let's say it's for whole difficulty change, so about 1,5% of network (753 / (25*2016))

Question is how to track the speed od the franchises so we know where are we at with the whole AM hashrate...

Why do you need to keep track of it? So you can panic sell/buy with hash rate swings Smiley ?

of course not, I'm just holding on to my shares... I just love graphs and statistics and this would definitely be interesting to track to add it to the solo hashrate...
full member
Activity: 237
Merit: 100

Similarly, the guys at Cointerra have real industry reputations. I knew about Open Silicon before I'd ever heard of Cointerra (I'm in the semi industry) - Dr. Sherwani is the president of Open Silicon, and he is on Cointerra's advisory board. Plus, Cointerra recieved 1.5M in private equity. That typically implies   they've got more than a plan to scam nerds

Similar to how these guys raised private equity?http://www.prweb.com/releases/2012/6/prweb9611889.htm
hero member
Activity: 656
Merit: 500
Franchising is already bigger than in-house mining!  Shocked (exaggerating, of course ;-) )

http://blockchain.info/address/1HtUGfbDcMzTeHWx2Dbgnhc6kYnj1Hp24i

713,2 BTC in last few hours. Let's say it's for whole difficulty change, so about 1,5% of network (753 / (25*2016))

Question is how to track the speed od the franchises so we know where are we at with the whole AM hashrate...

Why do you need to keep track of it? So you can panic sell/buy with hash rate swings Smiley ?
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
You are forgetting there are also:
KnC, Bitmine.ch, BTCGarden, Alydian and MyMiner.
full member
Activity: 180
Merit: 100
Tracking this is crazy. The source isn't easily found to be new blocks..so not sure how the funds end up (and what frequency) in the AM mining wallet.
legendary
Activity: 1008
Merit: 1000
Franchising is already bigger than in-house mining!  Shocked (exaggerating, of course ;-) )

http://blockchain.info/address/1HtUGfbDcMzTeHWx2Dbgnhc6kYnj1Hp24i

713,2 BTC in last few hours. Let's say it's for whole difficulty change, so about 1,5% of network (753 / (25*2016))

Not bad at all!
hero member
Activity: 752
Merit: 500
bitcoin hodler
Franchising is already bigger than in-house mining!  Shocked (exaggerating, of course ;-) )

http://blockchain.info/address/1HtUGfbDcMzTeHWx2Dbgnhc6kYnj1Hp24i

713,2 BTC in last few hours. Let's say it's for whole difficulty change, so about 1,5% of network (753 / (25*2016))

Question is how to track the speed od the franchises so we know where are we at with the whole AM hashrate...
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
Franchising is already bigger than in-house mining!  Shocked (exaggerating, of course ;-) )

http://blockchain.info/address/1HtUGfbDcMzTeHWx2Dbgnhc6kYnj1Hp24i

713,2 BTC in last few hours. Let's say it's for whole difficulty change, so about 1,5% of network (753 / (25*2016))
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1094
Learning the troll avoidance button :)

The future of Bitcoin mining must be either oblivion or reversible computing. I shudder to think of the electricity wasted otherwise.

Quantum computing is many, many years off.

Well if we get to the point where enough electricity is used to equate to 1 nuclear powerplant running at full capacity
We may need a more efficient coin.
(Unless we replace a lot of fiat currency printing and associated costs, with electronic transactions over the block-chain then more math is required to see which is more efficient over time)

On Quantum just said in the future no real timeline for it just someday the final chapter spoiler Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
♫ the AM bear who cares ♫

Still cointerra is ranked better than a BFL Klondike and BFL never delivers anything so my opinion on cointerra is dead bearish.

... what

BFL Monarch and just look at the image lol BFL Klondike  Tongue


No, I mean - how on earth are you making any inference about Cointerra based on the "BFL Klondike"?

Both are hot air atm Smiley
Or simply we have no evidence of it working I'll leave the burden of proof on you if you can refute that Smiley

We also have no evidence of AM Gen 2 working. We assume it will happen because FC has a reputation for delivering.

Similarly, the guys at Cointerra have real industry reputations. I knew about Open Silicon before I'd ever heard of Cointerra (I'm in the semi industry) - Dr. Sherwani is the president of Open Silicon, and he is on Cointerra's advisory board. Plus, Cointerra recieved 1.5M in private equity. That typically implies they've got more than a plan to scam nerds.

These guys have almost certainly done business with GloFo before. We're up a couple quality leagues from BFL and Avalon in terms of talent.

They could be late (NB: AM could be late), but there's a buttload of competition that will fill their place if they are. Cointerra just happens to be my favorite horse in this race.

Fair point, I still am waiting on that buttload to get off their arses for now Wink

We do not have Gen 2 proven to be hashing either so valid point we are still waiting on the timeline schedule for now, but personally I did like cointerras video and do agree with your point that they have industry reputation.
The question still remains if they will do it in time to be profitable and outpace the increases in difficulty.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K199f61n4qM

As for the other buttload of competition time tells no lies but AM is still the only one that pay's  Cool.

It will be interesting how they will add to the storyboard
http://thegenesisblock.com/bitcoin-network-reaches-1-petahash-per-second/

2009 - CPU
2010 - GPU
2011- FPGA
2012 - Rise of The ASIC
2013 - The ASIC Arms Race
2014 - Huh?
Some unknown point in the future
Quantum

The future of Bitcoin mining must be either oblivion or reversible computing. I shudder to think of the electricity wasted otherwise.

Quantum computing is many, many years off.
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1094
Learning the troll avoidance button :)


We also have no evidence of AM Gen 2 working. We assume it will happen because FC has a reputation for delivering.

Similarly, the guys at Cointerra have real industry reputations. I knew about Open Silicon before I'd ever heard of Cointerra (I'm in the semi industry) - Dr. Sherwani is the president of Open Silicon, and he is on Cointerra's advisory board. Plus, Cointerra recieved 1.5M in private equity. That typically implies they've got more than a plan to scam nerds.

These guys have almost certainly done business with GloFo before. We're up a couple quality leagues from BFL and Avalon in terms of talent.

They could be late (NB: AM could be late), but there's a buttload of competition that will fill their place if they are. Cointerra just happens to be my favorite horse in this race.

Fair point, I still am waiting on that buttload to get off their arses for now Wink

We do not have Gen 2 proven to be hashing either so that is a valid point we are still waiting on the timeline, but I did like cointerras video and do agree with your point that they have industry reputation.
The question still remains if they will do it in time to be profitable and outpace the increases in difficulty.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K199f61n4qM

As for the other buttload of competition time tells no lies but AM is still the only one that pay's  Cool.

It will be interesting how they will add to the storyboard in the long-run
http://thegenesisblock.com/bitcoin-network-reaches-1-petahash-per-second/

2009 - CPU
2010 - GPU
2011- FPGA
2012 - Rise of The ASIC
2013 - The ASIC Arms Race
2014 - Huh?
Some unknown point in the future
Quantum
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
♫ the AM bear who cares ♫

Still cointerra is ranked better than a BFL Klondike and BFL never delivers anything so my opinion on cointerra is dead bearish.

... what

BFL Monarch and just look at the image lol BFL Klondike  Tongue


No, I mean - how on earth are you making any inference about Cointerra based on the "BFL Klondike"?

Both are hot air atm Smiley
Or simply we have no evidence of it working I'll leave the burden of proof on you if you can refute that Smiley

We also have no evidence of AM Gen 2 working. We assume it will happen because FC has a reputation for delivering.

Similarly, the guys at Cointerra have real industry reputations. I knew about Open Silicon before I'd ever heard of Cointerra (I'm in the semi industry) - Dr. Sherwani is the president of Open Silicon, and he is on Cointerra's advisory board. Plus, Cointerra recieved 1.5M in private equity. That typically implies they've got more than a plan to scam nerds.

These guys have almost certainly done business with GloFo before. We're up a couple quality leagues from BFL and Avalon in terms of talent.

They could be late (NB: AM could be late), but there's a buttload of competition that will fill their place if they are. Cointerra just happens to be my favorite horse in this race.
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1094
Learning the troll avoidance button :)

Still cointerra is ranked better than a BFL Klondike and BFL never delivers anything so my opinion on cointerra is dead bearish.

... what

BFL Monarch and just look at the image lol BFL Klondike  Tongue


No, I mean - how on earth are you making any inference about Cointerra based on the "BFL Klondike"?

Both are hot air atm Smiley
Or simply we have no evidence of it working I'll leave the burden of proof on you if you can refute that Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
♫ the AM bear who cares ♫

Still cointerra is ranked better than a BFL Klondike and BFL never delivers anything so my opinion on cointerra is dead bearish.

... what

BFL Monarch and just look at the image lol BFL Klondike  Tongue


No, I mean - how on earth are you making any inference about Cointerra based on the "BFL Klondike"?
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1094
Learning the troll avoidance button :)

Still cointerra is ranked better than a BFL Klondike and BFL never delivers anything so my opinion on cointerra is dead bearish.

... what

BFL Monarch and just look at the image lol BFL Klondike  Tongue
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1094
Learning the troll avoidance button :)
No, not mad. There used to be lot's of intelligent conversation here, but now it's just littered with your FUD. You might as well have your own thread.

+1

He's trying WAY too hard to be taken seriously. Ignored.

+1 for Vycid starting his own thread....

By the way networks probably passed 1petahash. Celebration time!

Celebrates thats worthy of a fb post
An Asicminer Blade is 10GH, so 1 PH is 100,000 of these.
http://thebitcoinnews.co.uk/2013/09/15/what-does-one-petahash-look-like/
http://blog.standardcrypto.com/2013/09/15/what-does-one-petahash-look-like/

Let’s imagine we are filling up One Wilshire, a famous 30 story data center in Los Angeles. Let’s say there is enough power and cooling, and we are really packing our mining equipment in.

Maybe thirty above-described rooms per story. Not every story is data center — there are lawyers and acountants who rent there too — but ignore that. So, 900 possible rooms, and 30 rooms per story. 37.8 TH/story. 1.1 PH/building.

We have our answer. The bitcoin mining network run on Gen 1 hardware consists of about one One Wilshire-sized data center filled with Blades. Somewhat confirmatory of our ballpark estimate, One Wilshire sold for 437.5 million dollars last month.

If we had this running on gen 2 hardware, one petahash would be 3 stories and the entire building would be 10 petahashes.

Either way, our building sized mine would consume 21 megawatts of power, with one third for hashing and two thirds for cooling.

And that is what one petahash (or ten petahashes of gen 2) looks like.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
♫ the AM bear who cares ♫

If Cointerra is selling at $3/GH, do you see the issue with AM producing at $15?


Your choice of cointerra is not a good sample choice it may be profitable in January but that is a long wait in bitcoin and delays are very common.
http://decentralizedhashing.com/bitcoin-mining-equipment-table/


The fact that the stiffest competition doesn't deliver until January is the rationale behind a profit margin as high as 75%.

You must understand - all of my estimates are very conservative to offset the factors I may be missing. Yet, with those conservative estimates, the conclusion is still quite clear.

That is why I have such a high degree of certainty while everyone else appears to be purely speculating. It is extremely rare for a situation like this to appear in a market. I suspect it is a result of the bizarre wealth distribution. Many (most?) of AM's shareholders do not really understand finance.

If we assume a worst case a 30% increase in difficulty by the time the units come to market cointerra could well be seeing negative returns if difficulty rises at the speed we have been seeing recently.

Completely within the realm of possibility. I've discussed "overshoot" before. Many miners will lose money.

But if cointerra is seeing negative returns, what would you suppose that would mean for AM, considering cointerra is bringing a 28nm full custom ASIC to market?

Also, remember that cointerra's cost to produce is probably much lower than $3/GH. That's just their current sale price. There will be price wars.

Still cointerra is ranked better than a BFL Klondike and BFL never delivers anything so my opinion on cointerra is dead bearish.

... what
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1094
Learning the troll avoidance button :)

If Cointerra is selling at $3/GH, do you see the issue with AM producing at $15?


Your choice of cointerra is not a good sample choice it may be profitable in January but that is a long wait in bitcoin and delays are very common.
http://decentralizedhashing.com/bitcoin-mining-equipment-table/


The fact that the stiffest competition doesn't deliver until January is the rationale behind a profit margin as high as 75%.

You must understand - all of my estimates are very conservative to offset the factors I may be missing. Yet, with those conservative estimates, the conclusion is still quite clear.

That is why I have such a high degree of certainty while everyone else appears to be purely speculating. It is extremely rare for a situation like this to appear in a market. I suspect it is a result of the bizarre wealth distribution. Many (most?) of AM's shareholders do not really understand finance.

If we assume a worst case a 30% increase in difficulty by the time the units come to market cointerra could well be seeing negative returns if difficulty rises at the speed we have been seeing recently.

This does invoke a premium for the duration of September to January and possibly longer due to the simple factor no one else has been delivering.

If Labcoin really is hashing and reveals their address by Wednesday, if Activemining and Ken start producing, if Avalon didn't delay their delivery and Klondikes were running etc.

Not even mentioning Cointerra and Hashfast or Bitfury.

Then we might say that this profit margin is ridiculous but the point of the matter is a lot of people are speaking but I have not seen any damn action in the other competitors to rile me up Smiley

I can't copy the difficulty image (Seriously long url)
But it assumes calculations for difficulty increases vs cost to buy units etc.
http://decentralizedhashing.com/bitcoin-mining-equipment-table/

Still cointerra is ranked better than a BFL Klondike and BFL never delivers anything while its still profitable my opinion on cointerra is dead bearish.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
♫ the AM bear who cares ♫

So, I show you the income statement and explain the methodology, and you continue to imply the $1.50/GH figure is "completely made up"?

Please explain your investment thesis, I'm dying to know.


Firstly, it was my statement that even at $15/GH profit margins are over 75% that was completely made up, you absorbed it like air and used it in your next conjecture.

"Used it in my next conjecture"? You mean I refuted the obviously incorrect statement "even at $15/GH profit margin is better than 75%"? I'm not sure we're reading the same message board.

Secondly, I've been relatively clear on how I think the data you used to arrive at $1.50/GH is wonky.

I can live with "wonky".

Thirdly, no.

Ah, so you're going to take pot-shots at the estimates I provide as being "wonky", but you're going to refuse to demonstrate how it'd be possible to be any more informationally efficient.

Stupendous.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100

So, I show you the income statement and explain the methodology, and you continue to imply the $1.50/GH figure is "completely made up"?

Please explain your investment thesis, I'm dying to know.


Firstly, it was my statement that even at $15/GH profit margins are over 75% that was completely made up, you absorbed it like air and used it in your next conjecture.
Secondly, I've been relatively clear on how I think the data you used to arrive at $1.50/GH is wonky.
Thirdly, no.
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