Topic: Make sure you pay your taxes to the government that spies on you! - page 9. (Read 5568 times)

Quote from: myrkul on May 20, 2013, 12:33:14 AM

Bitcoin is like any other income - if the government knows about it, it will be liable to tax.

Liable... but not accessible.

A bitcoin world or more generally a public money supply currency world clearly means MORE taxes than before. After all, if you cut off the source of income which is printing money as debt, governments will be forced to take more taxes to maintain roads, etc.

Bitcoin income is MORE accessible to taxation, because the block chain doesn't lie (though of course under the table transactions will always be possible).

Maybe more liable, but as I said, not accessible.

Unless you know of a way you can reach in to my wallet and take my coins?

Yes - put you in jail until you pay your debts. Exactly like happens with all other forms of income.

I'm don't know why you cling to the bizarre notion that income from Bitcoin is some way special in that the taxman can't take it. If he knows about it, he can tax it. Bitcoin is just another currency from that point of view.

I don't understand why you cling to the silly notion that bitcoin isn't different. I have to willingly give up the money. Every other currency, they can take by force.

hashman

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Quote from: myrkul on May 20, 2013, 12:33:14 AM

Bitcoin is like any other income - if the government knows about it, it will be liable to tax.

Liable... but not accessible.

A bitcoin world or more generally a public money supply currency world clearly means MORE taxes than before. After all, if you cut off the source of income which is printing money as debt, governments will be forced to take more taxes to maintain roads, etc.

Bitcoin income is MORE accessible to taxation, because the block chain doesn't lie (though of course under the table transactions will always be possible).

Maybe more liable, but as I said, not accessible.

Unless you know of a way you can reach in to my wallet and take my coins?

The tax man never reaches in your wallet. Instead, we reach into our wallets and give the coins to them.
Hopefully, we will do so willingly and with knowledge that the money is going to a cause we support.

Unfortunately there will also be those who use threat of violence, as was common in the dark ages, er I mean now...

Hawker

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Bitcoin is like any other income - if the government knows about it, it will be liable to tax.

Liable... but not accessible.

A bitcoin world or more generally a public money supply currency world clearly means MORE taxes than before. After all, if you cut off the source of income which is printing money as debt, governments will be forced to take more taxes to maintain roads, etc.

Bitcoin income is MORE accessible to taxation, because the block chain doesn't lie (though of course under the table transactions will always be possible).

Maybe more liable, but as I said, not accessible.

Unless you know of a way you can reach in to my wallet and take my coins?

Yes - put you in jail until you pay your debts. Exactly like happens with all other forms of income.

I'm don't know why you cling to the bizarre notion that income from Bitcoin is some way special in that the taxman can't take it. If he knows about it, he can tax it. Bitcoin is just another currency from that point of view.

myrkul

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Bitcoin is like any other income - if the government knows about it, it will be liable to tax.

Liable... but not accessible.

A bitcoin world or more generally a public money supply currency world clearly means MORE taxes than before. After all, if you cut off the source of income which is printing money as debt, governments will be forced to take more taxes to maintain roads, etc.

Bitcoin income is MORE accessible to taxation, because the block chain doesn't lie (though of course under the table transactions will always be possible).

Maybe more liable, but as I said, not accessible.

Unless you know of a way you can reach in to my wallet and take my coins?

Lethn

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Quote

A bitcoin world or more generally a public money supply currency world clearly means MORE taxes than before. After all, if you cut off the source of income which is printing money as debt, governments will be forced to take more taxes to maintain roads, etc.

The reason taxes would go up is because they would be forced to honestly show just how much people are actually going to have to spend on the things the government is providing, printing money is not a source of income, it's delaying the payment of the debt that has been taken on with more debt, worse still, it dumps the problem on the next generation, your children, which is something I can never support.

hashman

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Bitcoin is like any other income - if the government knows about it, it will be liable to tax.

Liable... but not accessible.

A bitcoin world or more generally a public money supply currency world clearly means MORE taxes than before. After all, if you cut off the source of income which is printing money as debt, governments will be forced to take more taxes to maintain roads, etc.

Bitcoin income is MORE accessible to taxation, because the block chain doesn't lie (though of course under the table transactions will always be possible).

We're already paying miners fees, capital gains tax, and adjusting for sales tax. Get used to it, it sure beats an unknown tax applied without your knowledge.

myrkul

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Quote from: myrkul on May 19, 2013, 04:09:57 PM

Bitcoin is like any other income - if the government knows about it, it will be liable to tax.

Liable... but not accessible.

Hawker

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Quote from: Hawker on May 19, 2013, 03:59:49 PM

Saying the government has taken your house and car but that you have avoided paying tax is silly. Assuming your cash is in a secure location, every example you give is true for cash as well.

Even the Cryptostocks?

Somehow, I don't think the finance committee is going to appreciate a budget denominated in cars and houses.

But let's set that aside for a moment. Say I'm looking to transition to warmer, friendlier climes. I could sell the house and the car, and try taking all my cash with in a few dozen suitcases, but they generally don't like that. OR, I could turn it all into Bitcoins, and waltz across the border - any border - with it securely stashed in my brain. Try doing that with Krugerrands.

What's the point? Leaving the country to avoid paying tax is possibly the saddest thing imaginable. Don't you have a life? Family? Are you really so alone that you'd abandon it all in order to live on a beach?

That's why countries like the US and UK with high tax have so many rich people. Its not that the rich can't move - its that they have a good life here and don't see the attraction of leaving it behind. Bitcoin is like any other income - if the government knows about it, it will be liable to tax.

myrkul

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Quote from: Hawker on May 19, 2013, 03:59:49 PM

Saying the government has taken your house and car but that you have avoided paying tax is silly. Assuming your cash is in a secure location, every example you give is true for cash as well.

Even the Cryptostocks?

Somehow, I don't think the finance committee is going to appreciate a budget denominated in cars and houses.

But let's set that aside for a moment. Say I'm looking to transition to warmer, friendlier climes. I could sell the house and the car, and try taking all my cash with in a few dozen suitcases, but they generally don't like that. OR, I could turn it all into Bitcoins, and waltz across the border - any border - with it securely stashed in my brain. Try doing that with Krugerrands.

Severian

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Quote from: myrkul on May 19, 2013, 03:51:23 PM

So those of us who earn some money in Bitcoin are no more invulnerable than those of us who earn money in cash.

Only if you tell the government about your Bitcoins. What kind of fool would do that?

Hawker

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Quote from: myrkul on May 19, 2013, 03:23:52 PM

On a more serious point, Bitcoin does not mean the end of taxation. A person who earns money with Bitcoin is no different from a person who earns money with cash.

Except they can physically take your cash.

We've had this conversation before. Yes you can live in a tent and cycle to the shops. But if things are going well in your life, you will have a salary

Paid in bitcoins, on the internet.

, a house, a car,

So they steal my house and car. Now they have a house and a car, not taxes.

a pension, stock investments

On Cryptostocks.

and all sorts of other things that the taxman can take if you are convicted of tax evasion.

They can even lock me up, but I'll still have my money.

So those of us who earn some money in Bitcoin are no more invulnerable than those of us who earn money in cash.

As I've shown, actually, yes we are. It's not 100%, but it's a big step in the right direction.

Saying the government has taken your house and car but that you have avoided paying tax is silly. Assuming your cash is in a secure location, every example you give is true for cash as well.

myrkul

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Quote from: myrkul on May 19, 2013, 03:23:52 PM

On a more serious point, Bitcoin does not mean the end of taxation. A person who earns money with Bitcoin is no different from a person who earns money with cash.

Except they can physically take your cash.

We've had this conversation before. Yes you can live in a tent and cycle to the shops. But if things are going well in your life, you will have a salary

Paid in bitcoins, on the internet.

, a house, a car,

So they steal my house and car. Now they have a house and a car, not taxes.

a pension, stock investments

On Cryptostocks.

and all sorts of other things that the taxman can take if you are convicted of tax evasion.

They can even lock me up, but I'll still have my money.

Quote from: myrkul on May 19, 2013, 03:23:52 PM

So those of us who earn some money in Bitcoin are no more invulnerable than those of us who earn money in cash.

As I've shown, actually, yes we are. It's not 100%, but it's a big step in the right direction.

Hawker

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On a more serious point, Bitcoin does not mean the end of taxation. A person who earns money with Bitcoin is no different from a person who earns money with cash.

Except they can physically take your cash.

We've had this conversation before. Yes you can live in a tent and cycle to the shops. But if things are going well in your life, you will have a salary, a house, a car, a pension, stock investments and all sorts of other things that the taxman can take if you are convicted of tax evasion. So those of us who earn some money in Bitcoin are no more invulnerable than those of us who earn money in cash.

myrkul

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