Malaysia Airlines MH17 Crash: Boeing 777 Crashed in Ukraine Near Russian Border - page 18.

BCEmporium

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Quote from: hologram on July 21, 2014, 10:28:04 AM

Quote from: Nemo1024 on July 21, 2014, 10:13:37 AM

Or as the famous picture says:

Ho, Russia need her Lebensraum Grin

Why Russia can't stop her paranoia and just become a friendly country ? Even China stopped systematic west bashing and want their young people go to the west to repair all the communist propaganda...

Like said, what is that all about Europe vs Russia if Russia is in Europe?
I understand that Russia was an attempt to create a 3rd Roman Empire, actually "Czar" is a "russification" of "Caesar", then they turn communists and yada yada... How about we just be friends for a change? Doesn't work?

thew3apon

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What a unlucky year for Malaysia Airlines, hopefully Ukraine will compensate Malaysia Airlines for what happen..

hologram

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Quote from: Nemo1024 on July 21, 2014, 10:13:37 AM

Or as the famous picture says:

Ho, Russia need her Lebensraum Grin

Why Russia can't stop her paranoia and just become a friendly country ? Even China stopped systematic west bashing and want their young people go to the west to repair all the communist propaganda...

deisik

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English ⬄ Russian Translation Services

Quote from: umair127 on July 21, 2014, 09:01:07 AM

Quote from: sana8410 on July 21, 2014, 08:46:21 AM

Quote from: umair127 on July 21, 2014, 08:38:35 AM

If Ukraine operates these weapons systems as well, could the pro-Russian separatists have stolen one of them and used it?

Partially right. They tried from some time to improve their anti-air arsenal since the rebels main losses came from air hits, shellings bombings and so on. Now if they got parts of that missile system or a entire one, who the fuck knows, anything is possible. But ukraineans did it. Common sense. Personally im almost sure of it.

ps: the rebels got light support from Russians as i know. No way missiles and shit like that. It was an incident created by Ukraine because recently they foulishly started an open conflict with russians and from there their fate was sealed. What will happen, remains to be seen, but from this point on i can say not even concrete proofs would make me belief otherwise.

ps2: american media is pure shit. The truth? about this event? can be found, who the fuck knows where, maybe in another galaxy but not on cnn....

Why would Ukraine shoot down the airliner? They know the rebels don't have aircraft capability. Why would the Ukrainians shoot themselves in the foot when they are winning against the rebels?

Why would the Ukrainian military shoot down a Siberia Airlines airliner over the Black Sea in 2001 (and they still didn't admit it to the full)? It is no use to search for logic where there is no logic in the first place... Cool

zolace

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They took down that plane to bring the international community in the `game`. It's very hard if not impossible to fully prove who pushed the button and in Kievs equation that plane is nothing. They are about to lose much more than a foreign plane or care about other opinions of that event. The crimeea precedent for them is already a disaster. I heard they are very corrupted dude. Already being on the edge they tried to get more from Russia through somekind of blackmail but ended up by losing crimeea and now even more. There are a lot of pro-russian/russian ppl in south-eastern ukraine so they didn't won a shit over there.
What happens there is an elaborated subject. Later.

Nemo1024

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Quote from: Sumerian on July 21, 2014, 10:16:55 AM

That too, my heart is with them. The separatists are inhuman, they should be punished for making these decisions on their own, they probably caused this traumatic accident, and now they're 'taking care' of the bodies and their possessions too? It makes me very angry!

While you are so angry, can you also explain why Kiev is stewing and bargaining with the investigators and not letting them to the site, all the while the "separatists" asked for the investigators to come as quickly as possible. The bodies have been lying in 30C sun-baked weather for 3 days, often in people's gardens and homes, as they fell through the roof. Something needed to be dome to preserve the evidence while Kiev is procrastinating in the hopes that the evidence is destroyed by nature.

umair127

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Quote from: Rigon on July 21, 2014, 10:16:22 AM

Quote from: umair127 on July 21, 2014, 09:01:07 AM

Quote from: sana8410 on July 21, 2014, 08:46:21 AM

Quote from: umair127 on July 21, 2014, 08:38:35 AM

If Ukraine operates these weapons systems as well, could the pro-Russian separatists have stolen one of them and used it?

Partially right. They tried from some time to improve their anti-air arsenal since the rebels main losses came from air hits, shellings bombings and so on. Now if they got parts of that missile system or a entire one, who the fuck knows, anything is possible. But ukraineans did it. Common sense. Personally im almost sure of it.

ps: the rebels got light support from Russians as i know. No way missiles and shit like that. It was an incident created by Ukraine because recently they foulishly started an open conflict with russians and from there their fate was sealed. What will happen, remains to be seen, but from this point on i can say not even concrete proofs would make me belief otherwise.

ps2: american media is pure shit. The truth? about this event? can be found, who the fuck knows where, maybe in another galaxy but not on cnn....

Why would Ukraine shoot down the airliner? They know the rebels don't have aircraft capability. Why would the Ukrainians shoot themselves in the foot when they are winning against the rebels?

Perhaps they thought it was a Russian aircraft? Or perhaps they did it deliberately and figured the West would blame the separatists and Russia.

What makes u believe they are winning something over there? U think everything got at this point cause of an armed conflict? No, the main cause here lies in other things but end up fighting. Kiev went all in with that terrorist crap even from beginning because they knew what they're are facing there. Actually what they cant face. it's complicated. Russia has their interests in the area and whatever u look at it, this is a major - for Ukraine.

Sumerian

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Quote from: sana8410 on July 21, 2014, 08:58:06 AM

Quote from: Sumerian on July 21, 2014, 08:49:05 AM

I was on my way to home when I heard the plane got shot down. So weird that over 180 ppl living so close died. Rip to all 298 people..

The worst pain is on the families of the dead’s people ...not to know exactly who is responsible for this mass murder,the fact that the separatist taking the bodies and take autopsy on it without any approval,the fact that all the victims credit cards\money\valuable stuff are stolen.....tragic!

That too, my heart is with them. The separatists are inhuman, they should be punished for making these decisions on their own, they probably caused this traumatic accident, and now they're 'taking care' of the bodies and their possessions too? It makes me very angry!

Rigon

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Quote from: umair127 on July 21, 2014, 09:01:07 AM

Quote from: sana8410 on July 21, 2014, 08:46:21 AM

Quote from: umair127 on July 21, 2014, 08:38:35 AM

If Ukraine operates these weapons systems as well, could the pro-Russian separatists have stolen one of them and used it?

Partially right. They tried from some time to improve their anti-air arsenal since the rebels main losses came from air hits, shellings bombings and so on. Now if they got parts of that missile system or a entire one, who the fuck knows, anything is possible. But ukraineans did it. Common sense. Personally im almost sure of it.

ps: the rebels got light support from Russians as i know. No way missiles and shit like that. It was an incident created by Ukraine because recently they foulishly started an open conflict with russians and from there their fate was sealed. What will happen, remains to be seen, but from this point on i can say not even concrete proofs would make me belief otherwise.

ps2: american media is pure shit. The truth? about this event? can be found, who the fuck knows where, maybe in another galaxy but not on cnn....

Why would Ukraine shoot down the airliner? They know the rebels don't have aircraft capability. Why would the Ukrainians shoot themselves in the foot when they are winning against the rebels?

Perhaps they thought it was a Russian aircraft? Or perhaps they did it deliberately and figured the West would blame the separatists and Russia.

sana8410

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Quote from: umair127 on July 21, 2014, 10:02:26 AM

The thing is, The U.S., along with Russia, signed a treaty with Ukraine that stipulates that if they give up their nuclear weapons arsenal both the U.S. and Russia would protect Ukraine's territorial integrity. That went out the window when Russia literally took Crimea by force and how Russia is now supporting separatists in the Donetsk region.

Interesting how you hardly hear anything about that agreement in the media. Because the agreement is nothing serious. It's not a defense treaty, just the us would go to the un to complain if ukraine was invaded

Nemo1024

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Quote from: umair127 on July 21, 2014, 10:02:26 AM

The thing is, The U.S., along with Russia, signed a treaty with Ukraine that stipulates that if they give up their nuclear weapons arsenal both the U.S. and Russia would protect Ukraine's territorial integrity. That went out the window when Russia literally took Crimea by force and how Russia is now supporting separatists in the Donetsk region.

There is a difference between "taking by force" and voluntary secession with subsequent accession, as stipulated by UN-charter on people's self-determination.

Quote from: hologram on July 21, 2014, 10:05:57 AM

West has to fight communist who wanted all the world...

Or as the famous picture says:

hologram

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Quote from: Tusk on July 21, 2014, 10:04:07 AM

Given the pending economic collapse of the US and Europe, the Rise of BRICS and their migration away fro the petro$ etc I see things progressively escalating to a very bleak outcome. since WWII The West has done nothing for world peace why would it start now

West has to fight communist who wanted all the world...

And BRICS rise don't really exist, it's just FED QE that increase natural resources price...

Tusk

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Given the pending economic collapse of the US and Europe, the Rise of BRICS and their migration away fro the petro$ etc I see things progressively escalating to a very bleak outcome. since WWII The West has done nothing for world peace why would it start now

umair127

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The thing is, The U.S., along with Russia, signed a treaty with Ukraine that stipulates that if they give up their nuclear weapons arsenal both the U.S. and Russia would protect Ukraine's territorial integrity. That went out the window when Russia literally took Crimea by force and how Russia is now supporting separatists in the Donetsk region.

hologram

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Quote from: sana8410 on July 21, 2014, 09:55:34 AM

I can see surrounding countries gettting involved as well, leading to another big European war. Never thought I would see it in my lifetime. Hopefully I (we) won't see it.

Sure we don't, nobody have interest in that.

Nemo1024

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Ukrainian Su-25 fighter detected in close approach to MH17 before crash - Russian military
http://rt.com/news/174412-malaysia-plane-russia-ukraine/

Quote

The Russian military detected a Ukrainian SU-25 fighter jet gaining height towards the MH17 Boeing on the day of the catastrophe. Kiev must explain why the military jet was tracking the passenger airplane, the Russian Defense Ministry said.

“A Ukraine Air Force military jet was detected gaining height, it’s distance from the Malaysian Boeing was 3 to 5km,” said the head of the Main Operations Directorate of the HQ of Russia’s military forces, Lieutenant-General Andrey Kartopolov speaking at a media conference in Moscow on Monday.

“[We] would like to get an explanation as to why the military jet was flying along a civil aviation corridor at almost the same time and at the same level as a passenger plane,” he stated.

“The SU-25 fighter jet can gain an altitude of 10km, according to its specification,” he added. “It’s equipped with air-to-air R-60 missiles that can hit a target at a distance up to 12km, up to 5km for sure.”

The presence of the Ukrainian military jet can be confirmed by video shots made by the Rostov monitoring center, Kartopolov stated.

sana8410

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Quote from: zolace on July 21, 2014, 09:34:42 AM

Quote from: sana8410 on July 21, 2014, 09:13:44 AM

Quote from: zolace on July 21, 2014, 09:02:38 AM

One American citizen who held dual citizenship and spent most of his life in the Netherlands.But we still stick our nose in it.

It helps us (The United States) strategically if Ukraine joins the EU and eventually NATO.

I personally think Ukraine should have a good relationship with both the US/Europe as well as with Russia. This would be the best thing for Ukrainian interests; to work with both groups, that is.

That's all fine and dandy, but we'll be issuing more sanctions to Moscow and there will be an attempt to ride the "but flight 17!" rhetoric all the way to boots on the ground.

True. But this is Russia (2nd most powerful military on Earth) we are talking about. Not Al Qaeda or the Taliban, or Iraqi insurgents. This would get bloody if we put our boots on ground.

I can see surrounding countries gettting involved as well, leading to another big European war. Never thought I would see it in my lifetime. Hopefully I (we) won't see it.

Tusk

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Agreed, looking at the knee jerk sensationalist headlines coming out of western media one cant help but get feeling there could be an attempt to use this as a pretext to take an active role by the West, similar to WOMD scam to build support for the Iraq invasion, another "convenient truth". The demonization is so blatant you have to wonder.

zolace

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Quote from: sana8410 on July 21, 2014, 09:13:44 AM

Quote from: zolace on July 21, 2014, 09:02:38 AM

One American citizen who held dual citizenship and spent most of his life in the Netherlands.But we still stick our nose in it.

It helps us (The United States) strategically if Ukraine joins the EU and eventually NATO.

I personally think Ukraine should have a good relationship with both the US/Europe as well as with Russia. This would be the best thing for Ukrainian interests; to work with both groups, that is.

That's all fine and dandy, but we'll be issuing more sanctions to Moscow and there will be an attempt to ride the "but flight 17!" rhetoric all the way to boots on the ground.

Nemo1024

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Tracing the flight here:
http://planefinder.net/flight/MAS17/time/2014-07-17T11:55:00%20UTC
It disappears over Poland!

Huh

Topic: Malaysia Airlines MH17 Crash: Boeing 777 Crashed in Ukraine Near Russian Border - page 18. (Read 51934 times)