Topic: MasterCoin: New Protocol Layer Starting From “The Exodus Address” - page 3. (Read 448418 times)

Hey Robby,

Thanks for chiming in here, nothing but respect for you, I actually liked all of your ideas and energy you contributed.

I have a question though. Is the counterpartyd that is being used your mastercoind? modified? or your ideas? Cause they are both named similarly, one disappeared at the same time the other one was created, and both are in python.

Thanks

About OP_RETURN:

http://www.nl.reddit.com/r/mastercoin/comments/21bkrc/is_mastercoin_affected_by_the_40_byte_limit_on_op/

Dacoinminster: We're not currently using OP_RETURN. We may still be able to use it for our tiniest messages.
We're currently fleshing out a more robust and more censorship-resistant way to store our data.

Perhaps moving MSC to say Litecoin could be an interesting alternative, if Litecoin devs prove to be more flexible.

There are advantages, however, to moving to another chain. Less clutter and hybrid pos/pow model could get more community on-board. It would also make listings on all crypto popular exchanges much easier.

BTC is not the main attraction here but what smart property can be created and the list is pretty big.

It is very easy - even trivial to move to its own blockchain.  The problem you have with that is, then it doesn't work.  The entire concept of MSC is that it enhances and improves bitcoin.  Making a DEx for AnyCoin is not interesting.  A DEx (and other cool tricks) which work with THE bitcoin is very cool. 

Would anyone from Mastercoin like to comment on http://www.coindesk.com/developers-battle-bitcoin-block-chain/ OP_RETURN issue?

In case Bitcoin developers don't bend, it should be feasible to move Mastercoin to its own blockchain and use some proof of stake system or maybe even some hybrid model. I know this has been considered by Mastercoin before and even has some advantages.

Thoughts?

Lots of 'proof of work' also, in the shape of $T's of satellites that would not work very well, if this rock was another shape.

I am not debating with you. It's a honest question.
Btw, there're a lot of beautiful photos of our Mother Earth.

I noticed that you neither admitted nor denied that you are phantom.

it is good,the same to the xcp

Antony, I appreciate the maturity shown in this post, although my last name was not out there in public in this community, and now it is (oh well). Thank you for the kind words, but no "humble" variety of respect is necessary.

I had to laugh a bit at this post, especially the “big swinging dick” part. Here's the deal, guys: I got involved with Mastercoin because as an investor, I felt that things were in a bit of a rut and my skills could potentially be useful. I had some ideas that I put out there in a way that the Mastercoin team was free to integrate, or not. It was never intended to be a “my way or the highway” kind of thing, and any references to “my business” or “my experience” was simply to help give the ideas context and to establish a relevance to them, *not* to puff me up personally. Moreover, I offered support and resources as well in several proposals (by for instance, promoting the idea of a “mastercoind” as well as developing part of it and offering to finish it, offering development resources, providing some targeted, experience-based tips to the team, and more). My intention and goal there was not to “steamroll” anyone, nor force anything down people's throats, but more to raise an objection and outline a potentially better way of doing things in some regards, and then let the community voice their support or lack of support for it. The best ideas should emerge and thrive, by consensus.

“Dominant personalities” do not do a good job building organizations, products, projects, or anything really which involves more than one person – them. My track record points to collaboration, working well with others, and being able to delegate effectively (which is the only way to grow something beyond yourself). Was it always this way? No, and I had to learn some very good, but hard lessons along the “school of hard knocks” path, and am still learning. Like most people, I have more failures than successes in my life, but unlike many people, I really try to learn from each mistake and improve. In fact, all else being equal, I prefer to stay in the background – it's easier that way, and actions should speak for themselves. However, if I see something that is not going too well, and I have the interest, available time, and may have the skills to potentially help, then yes, I may get involved at that point. The only reason I stated my opinions is because I felt that logical, decisive action was lacking at the time in a few targeted areas, and things were not moving quickly enough. It was clear the “storm” that was coming in this space, and that Mastercoin would not be able to enjoy its first-mover advantage for long. In a few short months, this has come to pass.

I am glad to see that Mastercoin is becoming better organized and learning from past mistakes. This is a mark of any good organization. However, the luxury of time is no longer on their side. I am still a Mastercoin investor, and am grateful to the team (especially David, Ron, Taariq at the time, etc) for talking to and getting to know me and the ideas I had around team building and software development. Hopefully it was not a waste of time for them.

Do you have actual proof the Earth is round?  ...or do you just 'know'?

What is 'proof'?

GREAT.

How do you know it is Robby who begun the counterparty? Is there any proof of you just know?

I hated the Hobbit movies

Anyway, this may help? https://groups.google.com/a/mastercoin.org/forum/#!forum/dev
Also, ask [email protected] to add you to the dev mailing list if you'd like. There are some xposts from the mailing list to the forum(s), but most serious discussion does take place in a mailing list like Bitcoin does.


quotes from some emails:
Me: moreso from their actual fruits of labor, is there anything we can learn from their [Counterparty's] development process that we can adopt? Craig? How will our focus change from before the release of our attempt of a DEx? JR mentioned that our development process will be a lot more streamlined because we’ll only focus on one implementation, but what is the actual battle plan?

Ron: We have already cut down on development to any implementation other than Masterchest desktop wallet and Omni web wallet, starting from April 1st.

Me: How might this bode for the extraneous implementations' devs?

Ron: The migration process has been interesting. One developer (of the lesser Windows wallet) just silently left for the time being (even though he said he'll start contributing to the other Windows wallet).

The other developer of the web wallet - we actually had a very productive talk with him today, and are looking forward to defining our cooperation in the future. It's still not all rosy, but I think we broke down a long-standing barrier today.

Craig: I agree with JR’s assessment that things will be going smoother post launch.  We were previously moving all of the pieces around at once (spec, outgoing communication, implementation development x 4, etc).  We now (after April 15th), will be able to put each of these pieces into cycles that will feed one another, instead of juggling concurrent priorities.  

We don’t have that luxury between now and April 15th (in order to get Smart Property issuance launched by the deadline), so expect to see a scramble for the next three weeks.

The good news is: we will be focusing on a single reference implementation (thanks, Ron!) and building integration tools for third parties to work off of a common base.  We have not had that up until now.

Me: Very happy to hear, thank you friends

.

I already went down this path. The info WAS on the original talk.mastercoin forum but posts and info from that forum are not important enough to archive at the NEW forum. I laid out the means, motive, and opportunity for robby to have created counterparty. I felt that the best evidence was the mastercoind that he created in python had disappeared at around the same time that the counterpartyd created in python appeared. I'd link to this info but....

Roby responded with a you are crazy and have lost your mind post (actually I believe his exact quote was my accusations were not founded in reality).
.....No big deal really as I have lost my mind lots of times.....

And then he wished MSC success.

So there you have it. Straight from Roby's mouth, he says he is not phantomphreak and wishes msc well.

Really it is beside the point, which is why I never pressed it. Counterparty apparently is not going any where and the dev (who ever he is) does seem devoted. Seeing as how both groups have similar goals, as an end user who wants to be able to use these advanced features, competition is the best thing for us.

I've even wondered if counterparty was a plan from the beginning to test various ideas of msc out. A long sighted individual might have come to the conclusion that a clone was inevitable. Why not just control it from the beginning, like Sun Tzu (the Art of War general) would have? Alot of MSC ideas are and continue to be theory. A good strategy might have been to let counterparty make some of the mistakes or advancements before deciding on inclusion.

The main problem though for all the bickering is that the msc devs no longer include the public in their musings. We little people are left with our own speculations in place of being able to follow the entertainment that has been the development of mastercoin. With counterparty at least the public feels like it can be a part of it. MSC just hands us a piece of bread (updates) every few days, letting us know that it will be THEY who control the conversation. Thats hardly entertaining at all in my opinion and it forces me to just keep checking back every few weeks as opposed to reading up everyday. (This might account for the volume)

That and dev speed is a little lacking. (Cause the things I originally invested in msc for still won't be around for many many months) It's like waiting for that last hobbit movie.

Though we have heard of stupid haste in war, cleverness has never been seen associated with long delays.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War

I apologize Herp, this is definitely a very personal topic and I should have made it clear as such.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5756327

I tend to remember the things that stick out to me and at least these messages and onward were fresh on my mind and the last recent messages bothered me to the point that I felt compelled to say something about it not just to you, but all the other unnecessary mudslinging that takes place on these types of threads. I do acknowledge your probably hundreds of other helpful writings.

To me, hostility is not behavior typical of mature adults, but considering your dog-eat-dog view on this world, I understand that it will exist but it is something we can utilize better than most do.



Very much agreed on the second paragraph. To me, there's reason to be the bigger man by not condoning such lower conduct. Yeah, there will always be some nefariousness at play, but most often times that comes from the result of the hostile back-and-forth natures of some entrenched players without getting us anywhere very constructive. You write that conflict is good and a highly creative force. Is it not something that is better applied to us rather than being dismissive with the "enemy" and wasting that force? For instance, the back and forth on page 164 was entirely unconstructive. There was good criticism and conflict and it was more or less dismissed by you when it is apparent that yes, we did need to be more focused on the end-user product and experience rather than rush a product out by a somewhat arbitrarily-set deadline (I say somewhat because deadlines do push progress), and that we should take that criticism to heart from our fellow masterminds. I'm sure the people you fought have just as good intentions as you do for our project, which is what I meant when I fear that your hostility can drive who might be our best supporters away. Ethos, pathos, logos—let's use them.

I welcome criticism more than anything and my best learning and help comes from it, so I  try to integrate said criticism rather than adopt a holier-than-thou attitude towards it and dismissively attack it. For instance, your criticism of the current PR in place is very valid to me and warrants more discussion and is among the topics we should be discussing, not just being hostile to trolls but creatively turning that troll energy into something positive for us. Just some thoughts.

"When torrential water tosses boulders, it is because of its momentum. When the strike of a hawk breaks the body of its prey, it is because of timing."
Ch 5, Art of War

Yours,
Antony

I quite agree with your opinion.

That's a very narrow and cliche mainstream point of view but you're fully entitled to it.

I'm not here to defend "Mastercoin", by the contrary. I've been highly critical in many areas that have been neglected or handled poorly. I'm just someone with a stake in the project that wants to make his voice heard.

Foundation doesn't have a full time PR person but some guy involved in several other projects at the same time.  Mastercoin doesn't have much of an established image and I really hope for the sake of this project Mastercoin Foundation won't let someone like you handle PR or community interaction of any kind. An "official" should never interact with a community member in such a vulgar, abrasive, direct fashion as you did, expressing his own point of view. You should have just said I'm not affiliated and don't represent the MSC Foundation and leave it at that.


You're quite naive if you believe that and this kind of cheap hypocrisy you display doesn't fly. Many people, myself included, find it pretty repulsive. Competition isn't working "together" with you but against you to enrich themselves. This "we're all working together" might work at presentations and public events, but it's common knowledge there's plenty of backstabbing and mudslinging going around, done in various ways (like troll fake accounts posting disinformation among other things).

Conflict is good and a highly creative force, motivates and shakes people out of lethargy. Complacent "peaceful" consent for the sake of keeping up with appearances, going out of your way trying not to hurt someone's feelings is not. You can't be in peace and harmony with everyone. Show me someone who has no enemies and I'll show you someone who has no friends but acquaintances.

Robby Dermody, an individual many of us highly and humbly respect. I wish we could've worked closer than we did with him. I'm still open to do so and talked to Craig about it a month or two back I think. I fear that barriers have been drawn however. Whether or not they can/will be transcended is unknown to me at this point in time.

Herp, while I love the enthusiasm for the project, your brash, hostile defensiveness on this thread is not doing MasterProtocol's image any favors. In fact, your behavior on this thread is quite inflammatory and something I cannot support because it also creates dissonance within our own efforts and drives people away, despite however good your intentions may be. Risking being pedantic, please read what you write before posting and perceive how such writing may be perceived by others. We're all working together here, we all live in the same Yellow Submarine. Let's be a little more friendly, no?

For the record, neither bitcointalk user Herp nor anyone else not officially representing and working specifically with the Mastercoin Foundation reflect the Foundation's viewpoints and positions.

Thank you for your understanding,
Yours,
Antony