Topic: Meanwhile in Ukraine... Revolution. - page 112. (Read 227096 times)

Even the Americans have acknowledged that their missile defense shield can't counter advanced Russian ICBMs. If the Russians want, they can destroy Poland in a matter of minutes. Any missile shield will be of no use against the Russian ICBMs.

On September 17, 2009, The White House issued a statement saying that the US "no longer planned to move forward" with the project. According to President Obama, new intelligence had shown Iran was pursuing short-range and medium-range missile development, rather than long-range, necessitating a shift in strategy.[28][29]

The 2010 Polish Air Force Tu-154 crash occurred on 10 April 2010 when a Tupolev Tu-154M aircraft of the Polish Air Force crashed near the city of Smolensk, Russia, killing all 96 people on board. These included president Lech Kaczyński and his wife Maria, former president Ryszard Kaczorowski, the chief of the Polish General Staff and other senior Polish military officers, the president of the National Bank of Poland, Poland's deputy foreign minister, Polish government officials, 18 members of the Polish parliament, senior members of the Polish clergy, and relatives of victims of the Katyn massacre. They were en route from Warsaw to attend an event marking the 70th anniversary of the massacre; the site is approximately 19 kilometres (12 mi) west of Smolensk.

In March 2013 Polish Deputy Minister of Defense Robert Kupiecki announced that Poland intends to build its own missile defense within NATO, complementing the US deployment. Their tentative budget for the next decade is "$10 billion for the modernization of air defense, where half of this sum is dedicated to lower-tier missile defense

Get your facts right.

Yes they are - when USA announced the shield project Russia threatened to aim missiles at Poland, and placed artillery near the border. Later on half of the polish government died in a mysterious plane crash in Russia and the "new" government postponed the project. If that's not moving a finger than what is?

I was talking about the Warsaw pact countries in general not about Poland.
And Russia didn't move a finger for 20 years.
We even get a new american base with that bs missile defense shield built and the Russian aren't saying anything.

they are f** and they know it too well.

Yeah looks like right-wing loons have taken over the asylum, they're even marking houses with 'jews live here'.

Relevant interview here on Democracy Now:  http://www.democracynow.org/2014/1/30/debate_is_ukraines_opposition_a_democratic

Interesting bit yesterday about how the Ukrainian protests have been hi-jacked by right wing political activists from the start

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/29/ukraine-fascists-oligarchs-eu-nato-expansion

"We've been here before. For the past couple of months street protests in Ukraine have been played out through the western media according to a well-rehearsed script. Pro-democracy campaigners are battling an authoritarian government. The demonstrators are demanding the right to be part of the European Union. But Russia's president Vladimir Putin has vetoed their chance of freedom and prosperity.

It's a story we've heard in one form or another again and again – not least in Ukraine's western-backed Orange revolution a decade ago. But it bears only the sketchiest relationship to reality. EU membership has never been – and very likely never will be – on offer to Ukraine. As in Egypt last year, the president that the protesters want to force out was elected in a poll judged fair by international observers. And many of those on the streetsaren't very keen on democracy at all.

You'd never know from most of the reporting that far-right nationalists and fascists have been at the heart of the protests and attacks on government buildings. One of the three main opposition parties heading the campaign is the hard-right antisemitic Svoboda, whose leader Oleh Tyahnybok claims that a "Moscow-Jewish mafia" controls Ukraine. But US senator John McCain was happy to share a platform with him in Kiev last month. The party, now running the city of Lviv, led a 15,000-strong torchlit march earlier this month in memory of the Ukrainian fascist leader Stepan Bandera, whose forces fought with the Nazis in the second world war and took part in massacres of Jews."


The article references a piece by a Ukrainian writer who sheds a bit more light on the nature of the protests.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/22/ukraine-protests-europe-far-right-violence

"The Right Sector militants did not appear from nowhere, although many media and liberal protesters preferred to ignore their existence. They were active participants in the protest from the very beginning, interested not so much in European association as the "national revolution". They efficiently infiltrated the volunteer guards of the tent camps.

On 1 December, they were the main force behind the violent attack near the presidential administration, contrary to the popular version that blamed government provocateurs. When, last Sunday, Vitali Klitschko, the most probable next president of Ukraine according to the polls, tried to stop clashes with police, he was booed. Many protesters, who could not imagine themselves throwing stones and molotovs at the police line before, joined the violence of the extreme right, frustrated at the lack of progress after coming each Sunday to listen to the same talks from opposition leaders.

Yet those who may be thrilled with the illusion of an all-national revolt are forgetting that this is another step in the normalisation of the far right. Right Sector has already efficiently mainstreamed its slogans ("Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!", "Glory to the nation! Death to enemies!", "Ukraine above everything!"). We must not forget that these are people with sometimes overtly neo-Nazi ideas who would eagerly pass even more repressive laws, but only against other, ethnically defined enemies."

Any thoughts?

Polish politicians make sure that the anti-Russian attitude prevails among the local population, for their own necessity. The same can be said about Western Ukraine.

Around 50% of the Ukrainians speak Russian as a home language, while the remaining use Ukrainian. But several of those who use Russian as their primary language are anti-Russian as well.  

I think the only possible solution is to split Ukraine in to two. The Central and Western regions should stay as Ukraine, while the pro-Russian east, with some 1/3rd of the population should merge with Russia.

The provinces which should merge with Russia should be the ones where PoR+Communist Party got majority in 2012 (in Blue):

Odessa - 60.06%
Mykolayiv - 59.60%
Dneipropetrovsk - 55.17%
Kherson - 52.68%
Crimea - 71.75%
Sevastopol - 76.36%
Kharkiv - 61.82%
Luhansk - 82.20%
Donetsk - 83.94%
Zaporizhye - 62.11%


PoR votes:



Communist Party votes:



Result by Constituency: (Blue for PoR, Orange for KPU)

not to forget about cultural/historical differences between poland and ukraine as regards their attitude to russia - whareas in Poland, Russia is viewed even today as a possible threat, there are parts of Ukraine where inhabitants are ethnic Russians or, at least, speak Russian as their first language, mainly in eastern parts of the country...

 If you are supporting ukrainian struggle for freedom and rightness, please help us. Even your attention is helpful. More people will know about our battle, more pressure will feel the regime.

 We stand for fair president election, against corruption and criminals.

 Please, donate 18iBUWdVEpdQLSYF3HRDAF7GA3kcvekPUs
 
 Now we use Bitcoin because banks are forced to block traditional accounts.
 
 Your money will spent on medical aids, warm clothes and fuel.

Ukraine is different from Poland. Ukraine has its heavy metal industry, which is heavily dependent on subsidized gas from Russia. Even if Gazprom increases the price by 30%, it will ruin the industry.

I hope Russia will regain its position.  

Yeah , they said that about every country that left the Warsaw pact.
And the Russians did nothing.
Russia can't afford to go in an economical war with the EU.
They know that too damn well. Look how they've cut gas prices for Germany the moment Merkel raised her voice once against Putin.

Russian influence is dead. And the American will follow.

You'll get one soon... whether you want it or not. And the Ukrainian economy will collapse completely if it happens, as Russia will cut its gas supplies.

But I don't want another american puppet.

Here are some pictures from there:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?234849-Uprising-in-Ukraine-%28Photos-and-Videos%29

And here is a stream:
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/euromajdan/pop-out

I believe that the president has said that they won't be using the army... I wouldn't still count on his word

It won't happen. The current regime is done for it.
And another Russian puppet will bite the dust.

I hope the army comes in and annihilates this "revolution".

There are no prob with the opp leaders, just bad naming. Don't call it negotiations. Call it the leaders of the opposition parties advising yanukovich on how to not get killed. Based on their best judgment

Damn that place looks like warzone...

http://rt.com/op-edge/ukraine-prime-minister-resigned-297/
Do you think there will be new presidential elections?