If you watch these stories on Western mainstream media, they're very selective in the reporting. I have to watch RT as well to get both perspectives.
+1 for RTAnd further more , to get the best picture , don't trust any side more than 33%.
Topic: Meanwhile in Ukraine... Revolution. - page 113. (Read 227070 times)
And further more , to get the best picture , don't trust any side more than 33%.
If you watch these stories on Western mainstream media, they're very selective in the reporting. I have to watch RT as well to get both perspectives.
+1 for RT 
If you watch these stories on Western mainstream media, they're very selective in the reporting. I have to watch RT as well to get both perspectives.
That lenin picture is beautiful. 
This could lead to be a civil war like in syria,this could happen easily nowdays
Ukrainian police have used tear gas and stun grenades after pro-EU protesters began throwing Molotov cocktails at officers. The clashes followed violence at the protests in the country’s capital, Kiev, on the previous day.
The protesters climbed atop the main gate of the Dynamo football stadium, using it as a strongpoint to bombard the police’s special forces with Molotov cocktails.
The officers, who were trying to prevent protesters from entering the governmental offices district, were forced to retreat, RIA Novosti news agency reports.
Fire brigade teams have arrived at Kiev’s European Square to put out fires, burning riot police shields and officers’ uniforms.
Every now and then we see the injured being carried on stretchers to ambulance cars. In the last 15 minutes we have seen 4 of those
— Alexey Yaroshevsky (@Yaro_RT) January 20, 2014
The demonstrators have delivered gasoline canisters and empty bottles to make more Molotov cocktails.
The police opted for tear gas and stun grenades in order to contain the rioting crowd, which local media estimate at around 2,000.
RT’s cameraman was caught in the stand-off as he got hit in the back with a rubber bullet fired by police, Aleksey Yaroshevsky reports. The cameraman was not injured.
One of our cameramen was saved by a plastic shield he wore on his back. It blocked a metal bullet fired by the police
— Alexey Yaroshevsky (@Yaro_RT) January 20, 2014
A cameraman of Ukraine's ICTV channel was hit with a bullet in the eye, however. Yaroshevsky reports that doctors say he might partially lose his sight.
The protesters meanwhile built a wooden catapult on European Square. The 3-meter-tall ballistic device was put to use with a shot fired in the direction of the police. The projectile flew less than 10 meters, however, and no casualties were reported.
The protesters and the police are separated from each other by a convoy of Interior Ministry vehicles, which were burnt by the protesters on Sunday, becoming a symbolic dividing line between the sides.
http://rt.com/news/ukraine-clashes-kiev-molotov-907/
The protesters climbed atop the main gate of the Dynamo football stadium, using it as a strongpoint to bombard the police’s special forces with Molotov cocktails.
The officers, who were trying to prevent protesters from entering the governmental offices district, were forced to retreat, RIA Novosti news agency reports.
Fire brigade teams have arrived at Kiev’s European Square to put out fires, burning riot police shields and officers’ uniforms.
Every now and then we see the injured being carried on stretchers to ambulance cars. In the last 15 minutes we have seen 4 of those
— Alexey Yaroshevsky (@Yaro_RT) January 20, 2014
The demonstrators have delivered gasoline canisters and empty bottles to make more Molotov cocktails.
The police opted for tear gas and stun grenades in order to contain the rioting crowd, which local media estimate at around 2,000.
RT’s cameraman was caught in the stand-off as he got hit in the back with a rubber bullet fired by police, Aleksey Yaroshevsky reports. The cameraman was not injured.
One of our cameramen was saved by a plastic shield he wore on his back. It blocked a metal bullet fired by the police
— Alexey Yaroshevsky (@Yaro_RT) January 20, 2014
A cameraman of Ukraine's ICTV channel was hit with a bullet in the eye, however. Yaroshevsky reports that doctors say he might partially lose his sight.
The protesters meanwhile built a wooden catapult on European Square. The 3-meter-tall ballistic device was put to use with a shot fired in the direction of the police. The projectile flew less than 10 meters, however, and no casualties were reported.
The protesters and the police are separated from each other by a convoy of Interior Ministry vehicles, which were burnt by the protesters on Sunday, becoming a symbolic dividing line between the sides.
http://rt.com/news/ukraine-clashes-kiev-molotov-907/
In my country the communism failed because people stopped working really hard , they had their wages guaranteed , it was better to not learn anything in school because the jobs of professors or medics weren't paid accordingly , and because in communism everyone was supposed to be equal but some were more "equal" then others.
Also that hate for intellectuals and and appointing in key places relatives or communist zealots with only grade 4 education won't do any good.
Also that hate for intellectuals and and appointing in key places relatives or communist zealots with only grade 4 education won't do any good.
Could you please re-post this information here?
I do not think it was lazy or parasite races that brought down USSR. Communism makes everyone lazy parasites. I believe what brought it down was massive increase in military spending during last decade of its existence, where too much economic production was diverted into military, away from agriculture and rest of economy, which also resulted in large unsustainable debt. It is why I believe USA also began its path to empire collapse as soon as it began Iraq war.
May be. Some experts claim that it was the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan which resulted in the disintegration of the USSR.
In my country the communism failed because people stopped working really hard , they had their wages guaranteed , it was better to not learn anything in school because the jobs of professors or medics weren't paid accordingly , and because in communism everyone was supposed to be equal but some were more "equal" then others.
Also that hate for intellectuals and and appointing in key places relatives or communist zealots with only grade 4 education won't do any good.
Also that hate for intellectuals and and appointing in key places relatives or communist zealots with only grade 4 education won't do any good.
I do not think it was lazy or parasite races that brought down USSR. Communism makes everyone lazy parasites. I believe what brought it down was massive increase in military spending during last decade of its existence, where too much economic production was diverted into military, away from agriculture and rest of economy, which also resulted in large unsustainable debt. It is why I believe USA also began its path to empire collapse as soon as it began Iraq war.
Amazing fact I discovered while browsing around , Kazakhstan is top 8 in wheat exports. . Speaking of laziness.
. Speaking of laziness.Kazakhstan (similar to Ukraine) was once considered as the bread basket of the USSR. Agriculture is mostly developed in the Northern and Eastern regions, which once had a majority of Russians, Ukrainians and Germans (these regions originally belonged to Russia, but Stalin forcibly merged them with Kazakhstan in order to create ethnic Russian majority). The Muslim Kazakhs lived mostly in the Southern and Western parts, depending on dairy farming.
When Kazakhstan became independent in 1991, the whites began to leave the nation because of racial prejudice. The number of Russians and Ukrainians have reduced by more than half, while more than 90% of the Germans have emigrated. Kazakhs are not interested in agriculture and most of the grain farms are now lying barren and fallow.
The Germans were Kazakhstan's best farmers. There were around 1 million of them until 1991 in North Kazakhstan.
Ukraine can compete with Russian in the size of wheat production.
The Russians have almost 80 000 km2 of land dedicated to wheat production , that's 1/7 of the size of Ukraine.
Amazing fact I discovered while browsing around , Kazakhstan is top 8 in wheat exports.. Speaking of laziness.
The Russians have almost 80 000 km2 of land dedicated to wheat production , that's 1/7 of the size of Ukraine.
Amazing fact I discovered while browsing around , Kazakhstan is top 8 in wheat exports.
. Speaking of laziness. Some of your facts are wrong.
Republic Population of Republic (000s) 1979 1989 % urban 1979 Titular nationality (1989) Russian (1989)
Soviet Union 262,436 286,717 67 - 51.4
Russian SFSR 137,551 147,386 74 81.3 81.3
Ukrainian SSR 49,755 51,704 68 72.7 22.1
More like 60% of the population.
The Baltic countries were heavenly industrialized compared to Russia in %.
Their GDP was way higher than soviet Russia , in some cases more than 40%.
Also, Russia is one of the biggest wheat exporters in the world , with double the amount of Ukraine.
Republic Population of Republic (000s) 1979 1989 % urban 1979 Titular nationality (1989) Russian (1989)
Soviet Union 262,436 286,717 67 - 51.4
Russian SFSR 137,551 147,386 74 81.3 81.3
Ukrainian SSR 49,755 51,704 68 72.7 22.1
More like 60% of the population.
The Baltic countries were heavenly industrialized compared to Russia in %.
Their GDP was way higher than soviet Russia , in some cases more than 40%.
Also, Russia is one of the biggest wheat exporters in the world , with double the amount of Ukraine.
Hmm... so the parasite population was higher. No wonder that the USSR collapsed.
Russia, Ukraine, Moldovia and Belarus together accounted for 75% of the population. The Baltics were 3%. Kazakhstan (6%) can't be regarded as a parasite, as two-third of the population (back then) was either Russian or German.
The remaining are parasites, includes the Caucasus nations (5.5%) and Central Asia (11.5%). That is 17% or one-sixth of the population.
Ukraine produced much more grain and wheat per capita as compared to any other republic in the USSR. However, the agricultural sector collapsed there after the disintegration of the USSR, and that is why we are seeing lower wheat exports from Ukraine.
It is sad, because Ukraine always seems to be stuck between two fighting side, Russia and Europe. It was same during World War 2, when they were stuck between Soviet Union and Germany.
In an economical prospective, it might be better for Ukraine if it joins the Russian-led customs union.
That's the way the USSR worked. Russia and Ukraine together accounted for more than 90% of the total population (and 99% of the productive population). Russia had infinite natural resources, which were shipped to the factories in Ukraine, where the Ukrainian manpower produced world class engineering products. At that time, both Russia and Ukraine were inter-dependent on each other. Russia bartered its oil, gas, timber and mineral ores for food grains and meat produced in Ukraine, Belarus and Moldovia. Now Russia is a net importer of food, while Ukraine is heavily dependent on oil and gas imports.
The reason why the USSR disintegrated is because the unproductive population (mostly Muslims in Uzbekistan and Azerbaijan) increased much faster as compared to the productive population. However, if Russia and Ukraine creates an union state which excludes parasites such as Uzbekistan and Tajikistan, the people on both sides would benefit from it.
If Ukraine joins the EU, the government will be forced to take up austerity measures. This can include reducing the subsidies and pensions. It will adversely affect the lower middle class and the poor. However, the elite and the urban middle class will gain from new business opportunities. Also, the Ukrainian factories will be forced to adhere to the European standards, which would require new investment worth some $200 billion. No one is having that much money there. So there is a possibility that if Ukraine joins the EU, the Arabs and the Chinese will buy up 90% of Ukraine.
Some of your facts are wrong.
Republic Population of Republic (000s) 1979 1989 % urban 1979 Titular nationality (1989) Russian (1989)
Soviet Union 262,436 286,717 67 - 51.4
Russian SFSR 137,551 147,386 74 81.3 81.3
Ukrainian SSR 49,755 51,704 68 72.7 22.1
More like 60% of the population.
The Baltic countries were heavenly industrialized compared to Russia in %.
Their GDP was way higher than soviet Russia , in some cases more than 40%.
Also, Russia is one of the biggest wheat exporters in the world , with double the amount of Ukraine.
It is sad, because Ukraine always seems to be stuck between two fighting side, Russia and Europe. It was same during World War 2, when they were stuck between Soviet Union and Germany.
In an economical prospective, it might be better for Ukraine if it joins the Russian-led customs union.
That's the way the USSR worked. Russia and Ukraine together accounted for more than 90% of the total population (and 99% of the productive population). Russia had infinite natural resources, which were shipped to the factories in Ukraine, where the Ukrainian manpower produced world class engineering products. At that time, both Russia and Ukraine were inter-dependent on each other. Russia bartered its oil, gas, timber and mineral ores for food grains and meat produced in Ukraine, Belarus and Moldovia. Now Russia is a net importer of food, while Ukraine is heavily dependent on oil and gas imports.
The reason why the USSR disintegrated is because the unproductive population (mostly Muslims in Uzbekistan and Azerbaijan) increased much faster as compared to the productive population. However, if Russia and Ukraine creates an union state which excludes parasites such as Uzbekistan and Tajikistan, the people on both sides would benefit from it.
If Ukraine joins the EU, the government will be forced to take up austerity measures. This can include reducing the subsidies and pensions. It will adversely affect the lower middle class and the poor. However, the elite and the urban middle class will gain from new business opportunities. Also, the Ukrainian factories will be forced to adhere to the European standards, which would require new investment worth some $200 billion. No one is having that much money there. So there is a possibility that if Ukraine joins the EU, the Arabs and the Chinese will buy up 90% of Ukraine.
Since both sides are thieves, if their options are only government thieves that wish to join EU, and government thieves that wish to join Russia, I wish they could pick the option of just no government thieves at all. But from what I hear they have many people on government pensions, and much government debt, which is reason Ukraine is broke. So that may not be an option for them. It is sad, because Ukraine always seems to be stuck between two fighting side, Russia and Europe. It was same during World War 2, when they were stuck between Soviet Union and Germany.
Thank you for these new updates.
Thank you for these new updates.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/15/world/europe/struggle-in-ukraine-reflects-a-larger-battle-between-europe-and-russia.html?_r=1&
KIEV, Ukraine — Two large, swirling crowds faced off in Kiev on Saturday in public squares less than a quarter of a mile apart. One was the huge, antigovernment, pro-Europe demonstration that has electrified this capital since late last month. The other was composed of tens of thousands who poured into central Kiev for a counter rally in support of the embattled president, Viktor F. Yanukovich.
By evening, the pro-government crowd had disappeared for the night, leaving the police guarding a virtually empty plaza. The antigovernment protesters in Independence Square, by comparison, were revving up, waiting with excitement for a performance by one of Ukraine’s most popular rock bands ahead of another night out in the cold.
The contrast was one of several signals that momentum in the uprising over the president’s refusal to sign political and trade accords with the European Union might be shifting.
After weeks in which Mr. Yanukovich — and Russian opponents of the accords — appeared to have the upper hand, there were signs that the president was no longer so sure of himself.
Mr. Yanukovich, who had initially been dismissive of the protest movement and even flew off for a trip to China, met with opposition leaders on Friday and announced Saturday that he had indefinitely suspended two officials, the Kiev city manager, Oleksandr Popov, and deputy national security chief, Volodomyr Sivkovych, over allegations about their role in a violent crackdown by the police on protesters on Nov. 30.
A statement on the president’s website said they were suspected of violating citizens’ constitutional rights. It was unclear that either of the men had ordered the use of force, but the need to show officials’ being held accountable underscored the increasing pressure that Mr. Yanukovich is facing to make concessions.
“Everything that has happened in the last 24 to 48 hours is breaking in favor of a resolution toward the Maidan,” said Adrian Karatnycky, an expert on Ukraine with the Atlantic Council of the United States, referring to Independence Square.
Particularly significant, said Mr. Karatnycky, who was in Kiev last week, was the shifting support among oligarchs who control several factions in Parliament — a move he said was probably encouraged by the continued strength of the crowds on the street.
On Friday, Rinat Akhmetov, Ukraine’s wealthiest man and a close ally of Mr. Yanukovich, issued a statement in support of the antigovernment protest movement.
KIEV, Ukraine — Two large, swirling crowds faced off in Kiev on Saturday in public squares less than a quarter of a mile apart. One was the huge, antigovernment, pro-Europe demonstration that has electrified this capital since late last month. The other was composed of tens of thousands who poured into central Kiev for a counter rally in support of the embattled president, Viktor F. Yanukovich.
By evening, the pro-government crowd had disappeared for the night, leaving the police guarding a virtually empty plaza. The antigovernment protesters in Independence Square, by comparison, were revving up, waiting with excitement for a performance by one of Ukraine’s most popular rock bands ahead of another night out in the cold.
The contrast was one of several signals that momentum in the uprising over the president’s refusal to sign political and trade accords with the European Union might be shifting.
After weeks in which Mr. Yanukovich — and Russian opponents of the accords — appeared to have the upper hand, there were signs that the president was no longer so sure of himself.
Mr. Yanukovich, who had initially been dismissive of the protest movement and even flew off for a trip to China, met with opposition leaders on Friday and announced Saturday that he had indefinitely suspended two officials, the Kiev city manager, Oleksandr Popov, and deputy national security chief, Volodomyr Sivkovych, over allegations about their role in a violent crackdown by the police on protesters on Nov. 30.
A statement on the president’s website said they were suspected of violating citizens’ constitutional rights. It was unclear that either of the men had ordered the use of force, but the need to show officials’ being held accountable underscored the increasing pressure that Mr. Yanukovich is facing to make concessions.
“Everything that has happened in the last 24 to 48 hours is breaking in favor of a resolution toward the Maidan,” said Adrian Karatnycky, an expert on Ukraine with the Atlantic Council of the United States, referring to Independence Square.
Particularly significant, said Mr. Karatnycky, who was in Kiev last week, was the shifting support among oligarchs who control several factions in Parliament — a move he said was probably encouraged by the continued strength of the crowds on the street.
On Friday, Rinat Akhmetov, Ukraine’s wealthiest man and a close ally of Mr. Yanukovich, issued a statement in support of the antigovernment protest movement.
So is the fight between crony corporatist and small business free economy types? Or is it simply fight between corrupt thief and people who do not like corrupt thieves? I do not know what the Ukrainian people are like, but i do not like Yanukovich for being such authoritarian.
The fight is actually between different bands of thieves, on who should get the bigger share of the loot.
Also, what is bitcoin situation like in Ukraine? Are there exchanges? Can it be used at all?
I don't think there are any. Since BTC-E is based in Russia, most of the Ukrainians use that one. Payments from / to Ukrainian banks are available in BTC-E.
Since Yanukovich is friend of Russia, does that mean that Yanukovich is more socialist communist, and opposition party and protesters are more independent capitalists?
It is the other way around. Yanukovych is supported by the oligarchs and metal giants. Communism is no longer relevant in the ex-USSR. People have realized that it is a failed ideology.
So is the fight between crony corporatist and small business free economy types? Or is it simply fight between corrupt thief and people who do not like corrupt thieves? I do not know what the Ukrainian people are like, but i do not like Yanukovich for being such authoritarian.
Also, what is bitcoin situation like in Ukraine? Are there exchanges? Can it be used at all?
Since Yanukovich is friend of Russia, does that mean that Yanukovich is more socialist communist, and opposition party and protesters are more independent capitalists?
It is the other way around. Yanukovych is supported by the oligarchs and metal giants. Communism is no longer relevant in the ex-USSR. People have realized that it is a failed ideology.
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