Topic: MicroStrategy Buys $250M in Bitcoin, Calling the Crypto ‘Superior to Cash’ - page 15. (Read 17191 times)

Is there someone who has the wallet address for Microstratey? I just need to monitor the exit  time. As this is cryptocurrency and everything is a trading strategy, I don't trust the information provided by the firm especially on purchase and queitly on sale. How would it be if they bought at a lower price and announced a higher price to sway buyers?

New buy!




Adding all the details and spreadsheet updates later on the day!

You seem to not really know the facts very well Mate2237.

Saylor never had any cashflow issues with his company in terms of paying for employees, and even if there were some businesses that got themselves into trouble because they overly-leveraged and they also were likely fucking around with money (and bitcoin) that they did not have, Saylor and MSTR did not seem to even come close to those kinds of disastrous situations, even though sometimes it might not be clear about how much any company is "suffering" or "over-extended" until their whole house of cards comes falling down.

If a company structures its cashflow and it debt well, then they can still survive (and not get reckt), even if they may well have been attempting to bet on a scenario that did not play out.  In other words, sometimes bets can be made and the market moves in the opposite direction or even against the bet, and so some folks have better risk management strategies than others, and surely there are degrees to all of these kinds of risk management strategies, and even sometimes there can be folks who employed horrible risk management strategies, but they still might have ended up getting lucky, which would not necessarily reflect well on their risk-management strategies, and some folks will actually end up learning from "close calls," while at the same time, some folks might learn the wrong lesson from the information that they see right in front of their face.

For sure, another fault is to see that some individuals and companies got reckt worse than others, but not necessarily be able to see potential opportunities in bitcoin from various market movements (in the event that some folks might have not had any BTC or maybe they had small amounts of BTC, but they end up getting scared away during periods in which they BTC price had dipped extensively).  Another aspect of our whole situation remains that we are still in the middle of some pretty decently large matters still needing to be resolved, and so there still is not certainty regarding if the "bottom is in" or not.  I am not yet prepared to presume that the "bottom is in" even though surely on a personal level, when it comes to bitcoin, ever since about late 2014, I had never really NOT been prepared for UP (even though there was some period in 2015 2016 and perhaps even a bit into early 2017) that I had felt some lack of confidence in terms of the extent to which I had been prepared for up.

So what I am suggesting is that whether we are an individual, a company or even a government (probably one of the only ones playing this game is El Salvador) it remains a good idea to attempt to prepare for either UP or down, and don't get too distracted in regards to what the whales are doing.. even though surely MSTR seems to be a bit extreme of an example in the case of what "whales are doing," so sure there might be some lessons that can be learned from them, but I am having my doubts about whether you have sufficiently understood the extent to which MSTR might have had any dilemmas in regards to what to do, and hopefully you are not letting your wrong assessment MSTR and Saylor affect how you are employing your own stacking of BTC and/or your risk management strategies... or even worse, if your seemingly foggy framework has lured you into hedging some of your bitcoin bets with shitcoins... hahahahahaaha

I am not even saying that a complete zero tolerance strategy is necessary with shitcoins as long as you make sure that you got your shit together in regards to king daddy first... .. and then if you have that in sufficient order, then maybe a bit of distraction and gambling with shitcoins might be ok and acceptable, even though I would recommend such distractions for myself... but sometimes other people have way more energy and even desires to have scattered approaches to their investments (to the extent that they understand/appreciate the difference between investing and gambling).

There is different between buying and hodling, Saylor being a bitcoin enthusiast might have bought a good number of bitcoin but remember he is he co-founder of the company and they have workers to pay salary every month ends or weekends, and if there is no extra funds to pay workers and bills, he has to use bitcoin funds to settle some pressing needs. And bitcoin was on the bear for almost a year, and it was not easy for a bitcoin Wales at that time as.
I was also thinking that Saylor would be one of the strongest Wales in the bitcoin space but things are not coming to the way I thought. But there is still hope in this rising bull market.

There current Bitcoin holdings are valued at around $4 billion. They could certainly make some outstanding profits and it seems that they plan on adding more. Every update that is shown in these lists was an increase in their Bitcoin holdings. I don't whether they ever sold a single coin, but it's impressive how they stick to their words. They are obviously true believers and have been many years. Beyond that they are a huge player in the game as well.

I find it hard to believe that none of the big tech companies has any significant holdings:



How can companies like Microsoft or Facebook miss the train so hard? How is that possible? Or do you guys think that they have hidden holdings through complicated corporate networks?

Though I don't know how up to date or correct that data is. When there are public filings, it should be fine. But why would the US government be missing here?



Because here it is stated how much the US government is holding right now.

I also expect that.
Microstrategy is going to complete their transition into a full bitcoin company in a very short period of time.
Still, they have 500 millions of revenues from their sales, those will soon be gone and they will do only bitcoin consultancy.

Saylor is a real Chad, the fact he’s been buying all the way down, despite being underwater shows real conviction by himself & Microstrategy. You could call it ultimate dollar cost averaging.

I expect Microstrategy to become one of the wealthiest companies in the world during the next bull run, purely due to their bitcoin investments.

MSTR had already given notice in their 10k filing or maybe in some related document (perhaps around the middle of 2022) that they were going to sell shares in MSTR (I think up to $500 million or something like that) which had language something to the effect: "to sell shares for the purpose of doing whatever they like in connection with their total and complete discretion in running the business, including but not limited to buying bitcoin."

However, as can be seen from the document for this purpose, in the period from January 1 to March 24, 2023, MicroStrategy issued and sold a total of 1,348,855 shares, which brought a total net revenue of approximately $339.4 million, I think this is a deliberate step on the part of the company that allowed it to get away from debt and buy additional bitcoin on the fall.

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1050446/000119312523079839/d467124d8k.htm

Oh gawd.. you seem to be even more lost than I had thought.

I thought that I was just providing an emphatic reminder about some factual matters that should have had been mostly obvious (namely that the substance of the matter was that MSTR/Saylor did not sell any BTC), but instead, you actually are acting as if you really believe what you had said...

Holy cow!   

The additional desperate framing that you are now throwing in there to imply that Saylor "lost" his CEO position is another one of those nearly pure nonsense plays, when the fact of the matter remains that Saylor is the boss (of MSTR, and we have covered this several times in this thread), so the essence of the factual matter regarding what actually happened is that Saylor largely just appointed someone else to be responsible daily operations of MSTR in order that he (Saylor) could focus more on bitcoin related matters and have more freedoms in terms of how he chose to use his time. It is not as difficult and detached from reality as you are striving to make it to be.

There is one thing to be innocently caught up in misinformation (which I kind of thought might have been your situation), and so my use of the expression "fuck off" was ONLY intended as a kind of public response rather than anything personal - yet now that you double down and you also bring up another piece of nonsense, you are showing yourself to likely be purposefully misinformed rather than misinformed by accident.

Too bad for you that you seem to fail/refuse to adequately understand and appreciate either bitcoin or some of the various plays that Saylor/MSTR seems to be making in the bitcoin space, and I am not even presuming that Saylor and MSTR will necessarily be successful, yet there still seems to be some hilarious angle in regards to the various lost puppies making exaggerated allegations regarding their failure and seeming to want to read every little sign as if there were an underlying failure about to take place in regards to Saylor/MSTR.

Hopefully, you are not so dumb as to refuse/fail to buy bitcoin, even though it does appear that you are coming at this topic from either a no coiner perspective or maybe from the perspective of someone who sold too much BTC too soon, and as if you are waiting for lower BTC prices (such as lower $10ks or even sub $10k BTC prices) that are not nearly as likely as the odds that you are probably placing upon such scenarios... and in other words, BTC prices had been below the 200-week moving average for around 9 months, and sure those were historically extremely low levels, yet you had a lot of opportunities to pick up some coins in those price territories, and so even though there is no guarantee that we will NOT go back below the 200-week moving average, your cheering for downity BTC prices that are quite less likely than you are expecting them to be likely demonstrates that you are inadequately prepared for UP.. .. sucks to be you.

For me, the same positive character is Bukele, in a sense, this adds confidence when it comes to such significant funds for investment. MicroStrategy already in this bull market can silence all the skeptics, they have chosen a strategy and stick to it regardless of the market situation, it is worthy of respect. 

What the Michael Saylor public is widely known for is MSTR and that's frame.
Some of us see it from the outside like that. We also still remember the reason after Michael Saylor was no longer the leader. Well, that's how it is...He just kept tweeting what he could have tweeted.

As I keep saying, Saylor has built his company into the first forever company thanks to Bitcoin. The first bear market after the company's massive buys was the only real test they were gonna have to go through and they got through it just fine, despite having to deal with some stuff like adding more to their collateral and Silvergate going belly-up and having to pay back their loan already.

It'll be fun to watch what the naysayers say when MicroStrategy's Bitcoin holdings go to something like $20 billion this market cycle lol. Eventually they are going to have hundreds of billions of dollars worth of Bitcoin. Their company operations are going to be a tiny fraction of their Bitcoin holdings. I know they are getting into doing something with LN, but it'll be interesting to see how they actually expand their business considering their assets on hand are going to be many times larger than their actual business. It'll also be interesting to see how investors value their stock, like will the stock keep up with the value of their Bitcoin, as a proxy for all the Bitcoin they own, or will the value the company has vastly outstrip the market cap of the company itself. I guess when you have all that Bitcoin though your stock doesn't matter so much, as they can always just borrow against their bitcoin.

from the previous post I was very sure that Saylor would not miss Q1 2023 to buy BTC and after a few days Saylor had announced that Mycrostrategy bought BTC at a price of $29817, Thus Mycrostrategy now owns or holds 138955 btc.

indeed in recent days btc is relatively in a sideway phase where btc is traded at a price of $ 27k and today it is relatively the same. this is quite an impressive moment considering the positive news came at the right time, i think a big resistance point that $30k needs to get past before we see a bigger bounce.

Fuck off with this nonsense framing that MSTR/Saylor "sold in December 2022" since that is not substantively accurate in the whole scheme of things they sold and they bought back more BTC which results in a net buying of BTC.. Accordingly, it is not accurate to characterize such an event as "selling" BTC even though technically you are correct that there was an actual "sale" of BTC contained within the facts of MSTR's/Saylor's December 2022 conduct, but in the whole scheme of things, it remains a mischaracterization (and misleading bullshit) of facts to be describing what MSTR/Saylor did in December 2022 as a "sale."


That part is true.. It seems to be a good thing that MSTR is getting involved in aspects of the lightning network, and it seems that essentially the longer that MSTR is involved in the bitcoin space, the more likely they are going to broaden the various ways that they are involved in bitcoin, since Saylor seems to be such a strong believer in bitcoin, and historically he has also really tended to show that his actions are at least as bullish as his words.. at least so far.. and surely, I am not even going to proclaim that any kind of bitcoin bull or advocate could not end up changing stripes and/or turning out to be some other thing.. but so far we still do not have any evidence to really substantiate that Saylor/MSTR is moving away from bitcoin, even though ongoingly bitcoin naysayers, shitcoin pumpers and other baloney spreaders are trying to find any kind of sign of weakness in terms of Saylor/MSTR's advocacy of bitcoin in order that they would be able to POUNCE upon such weakness/short-coming if such a thing were to exist.


The FUDsters, no coiners, shitcoin pumpers and bitcoin naysayers are never going to completely stop trying to find some reason to find cracks in the bitcoin system, until they come to realize that they are wrong.. and they better get the fuck off of zero...or stop playing around with snake-oil pie in the sky products that are at best bitcoin wannabe products.

So yeah even if there is disagreement or uncertainties regarding what bitcoin is, it is better to have some allocation into it, and between 1% to 25% of an investment portfolio is likely a good starting point for any newbie to bitcoin, and sure it could take a while to reach target allocation levels, but part of the deal likely remains that it is better to get started sooner rather than later to establish an initial position into bitcoin, study bitcoin while establishing an initial position to figure out if there might be ways in which to change the initial approach to accumulating BTC and getting to initial starting points that are getting off of zero at least and probably somewhere in the 1% to 25% allocation territory - even though none of us is likely in any kind of a position to really suggest where someone else should be or need to be in terms of everyone being responsible for their own ways that they invest their time, energies and value into any kind of an asset class, whether bitcoin or any other way that they may choose to invest.

At an average cost of $29,800 it won't be long until they are back in profits with their Bitcoin. And finally the stupid pronouncements by no-coiners trying to say MicroStrategy made a huge blunder buying Bitcoin will be at an end permanently. Glad to see they managed to pick up some Bitcoin at $23k just before the bear market ended.

They are back buying for collateral repayments after last selling in December 2022.
This company always surprises people with many plans after plans.
MicroStrategy's next plan is to use the Lightning Network service as a content monetization solution.

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/business/microstrategy-purchases-6455-btc-pays-off-205m-loan

Yeah.. but we are not really talking so much about "cryptocurrency" custody here, even though some of the various systems are overlapping, we are talking about a company that invests in bitcoin.. and has been attempting to use various mainstream traditional financial/banking services, including hedging debt and various other ways that Saylor/MSTR seems to have tried to be creative in their use of various kinds of debt and leveraging systems, and they never touched any shitcoins, even though some of the banking services that they were using were exposed to shitcoins, and also surely the price of bitcoin has been increasingly affected by various shitcoin projects that either claim to have bitcoin that they do not have (such as FTX as one pretty BIG recent example) and also sometimes engage in practices that claim to collateralize BTC or algorithmically attach or stablize to bitcoin in such a way that they also likely do not even have enough bitcoin to cover the claims that are outstanding in regards to their algorithmically created pegs (referring to the TerraLuna fiasco).

Nonetheless the central point here does not seem to deal with the custody of cryptocurrencies, or shitcoins..  we are specifically talking about bitcoin in regards to what Saylor/MSTR is striving to hold or to employ custodians that hold some or all of it.


I also have some trouble with this framing, since we have crazy ass rising levels of dollar debt and dollar instruments, and we have various kinds of scams in various spaces, including some of the fake ponzi schemes in which people try to make money, and sure there is some likelihood that some people end up fleeing to bitcoin because they see so many risks in the other sectors including how third-party exposures are seeming to be problematic.. and then also more recently seeming regulatory attacks on third party services that also have bitcoin branches... and also historically, bitcoin has not really been seen as a risk-free asset, even though a lot of longer term bitcoiners had been viewing bitcoin's investment thesis to be strengthened by it having fewer third -party risks, and it seems that more and more people are becoming enlightened to bitcoin as a potential safehaven.... but then at the same time, bitcoin is very liquid so sometimes it can be pumped or dumped pretty easily compared to other kinds of assets that someone might hold... Some of these aspects are moving targets too, including perceptions of risk and even liquidity options.


I think that is part of the dilemma that I am presenting too, yet I have my doubts that the offering of custodians is shrinking because it seems that more and more bitcoin custodian services are becoming available, even though some of the services that deal with bitcoin are being attacked at the same time, yet whether they have been or continue to be good custodians may well be questioned.. and surely there could be a lot of vulnerabilities to rely too much on any one custodial service... and surely, this could be a bit of an unknown for individuals who might be able to more easily self-custody, but frequently institutions, companies and even governments might not be able to self-custody... so MSTR and even El Salvador likely run into some of custodial issues, but they are not seeming to disclose too many details regarding how they are employing their BTC custody.. which I don't completely blame them for holding back some of their custodial details, but at the same time, when a bunch of shit is hitting the fan many folks become worried about whether the coins of some entities or individuals might have exposure to some of the ways that the shit is hitting the fan.


Yeah, but we are still seeing that banks are not all created equally, and there might have been some banks that were more exposed to certain industries, and the banks may have had differing ways of holding their value including that bigger banks may have been more able to weather some of the storm, even though some of the storm might be based in reality or merely perceptions of reality because if push comes to shove, if there is a bank run on any bank, they might not be sufficiently solvent to handle it, so there could be some aspects that relate to how much exposure a bank might have to certain industries, but there also might be some market and/or governmental manipulations going on too, including the fact that the US Fed Govt had announced a new Fed Now program that is supposed to start in early July, while they are beating up upon the rails of systems that Silvergate and Signature bank had put into place that allowed for the 24/7 movement of dollars.. which would also help to bring greater liquidity to bitcoin and to crypto trading. .. since the bitcoin and crypto trading has tended to be 24/7 for the past 13 years or so (and of course avenues of bitcoin and "crypto" liquidity growing during the last 13 years or so, too).


I don't really disagree with anything that you are saying in this last part of your post slapper, even though I am way less concerned about whatever is happening with "cryptocurrencies" than you seem to be, and I think that if we are framing these questions in terms of what is happening with "cryptocurrencies" then we are losing some of our own understanding regarding the foundation of how any of this space has value, and sure there are a lot of folks fucking around with shitcoins.. but still I had not framed any of my questions regarding the possible dilemmas of MSTR and Saylor in terms of what is happening in "cryptocurrencies" because I give little shits.. but if we at least frame the matter in terms of what is happening in bitcoin, then surely we can still understand that some of the things that are happening with various shitcoins and scams also end up touching upon bitcoin and even perceptions of bitcoin, but still, from my perspective, it does not seem to be very helpful for any of us to be repeating the same convolution of terms fallacy and we need to be using the word bitcoin if we are talking about bitcoin and make sure that we are staying focused on what we are talking about because the tail does not wag the dog... so when we talk about the tail (which are shitcoins) then we sometimes lose our perspective of what is happening with the dog (which is bitcoin) and I was trying to talk about the dog here, not the tail... and surely not trying to go along with any kind of framework that tries to give agency to the tail in terms of having any kind of special place of equivalency as compared to bitcoin.. so let's try to focus a wee bit moar better, if that's still possible?  

And, from your forum registration date slapper, you have been around here for the same amount of time as me, so really you should know better, no?  or maybe you still have not figured out what is bitcoin and how it is different from "crypto" and how that dumbass framing of matters in terms of concerns about what is going on with "crypto" is losing the plot and also convoluting and confusing matters.

The perplexing world of cryptocurrency custody is absolutely enthralling, folks. Bitcoin's skyrocketing value is raising the stakes and risks like never before! We've got serious issues with these custodians; people are questioning their security and truthfulness. It's like trying to find a needle in a haystack, but we need to make sure we've got the right protection in place.

Banks have their own ways of holding dollars, and with reserve requirements changing, we're looking at a liquidity crisis! Interest rates keep bouncing around, making it tough for custodians to lock in value – it's just like a rollercoaster. But Bitcoin is a whole new ball game, and it's not playing by the same rules as traditional currencies.

Custodians need a wake-up call, especially as they're holding more coins. Coinbase's recent legal troubles are shining a light on the gray areas of compliance. We've got to hold these custodians accountable for their assets, and they can't play games with rehypothecation. Microstrategy's early Silvergate loan repayment and reevaluating their leverage options is moving in the right direction. We need to make sure these third-party entities can give back collateral when push comes to shove. Cryptocurrencies are a thrilling ride, but we've got to keep questioning and improving custody practices to keep them safe and genuine.

In recent days, I have been thinking about some of these related matters too, and surely it remains unclear to me how MSTR is custodying its various coins, and surely there might not be any exact need to provide all of the custodial details, because that could lead to some insecurities of the coins... and their processes for securing their coins.  However, at the same time, when we have recently witnessed so many problems and issues with various custodians, there can be questions regarding whether they are actually holding what they claim to be holding, and surely the dollar and banking system has a variety of requirements in regards to what it can and cannot do with dollars, and we know that right around the earlier parts of the covid related liquidity issues, they were allowed to go from being required to hold 10% reserves to 0% reserve requirements, which might have contributed to make matters worse in regards to their not having sufficient reserves, but also there seem to have been problems with the sudden changes in the interest rates contributing more to the problems of how they were holding their some of their value in time-locked ways that were earning lower interest rates than the current rate - but still bitcoin is a different kind of an asset, even though if there may be ways in which loans were being taken out on it, then the custodians of the dollars may have ended up being responsible for overseeing or even taking into custody the bitcoins that were the loan collateral, which apparently was not the case with the way that MSTR had structured one of their loan relations with Silvergate.

Of course, there are some bitcoin entities such as Coinbase that are being brought up on charges for some of its various non-bitcoin products, and sometimes there could be some ambiguities in regards to how a company might be compliant with one aspect of the law and not compliant with other aspects, and of course, sometimes we have found out that the entities are not holding the assets that they claim to be holding - or they might have some abilities to not hold the items that they are claiming to hold because they might be allowed "by law" to further rehypothicate (or put the assets to work). 

Perhaps the more coins that any entity has, then the more ways that they might be custodian their coins and the more ways that some of their coins could come vulnerable to the short-comings, missteps or even foul play of other parties - whether directly or indirectly - and surely US government entities, representatives and even financial institutions have not been putting out "friendly" gestures in recent times, including that sometimes they seem to convolute some of their ideas to distinguish between various kinds of assets and/or currencies that currently exist - and I am not even completely blaming anyone for some of the confusion, even though surely some of the confusion likely is being shown as purposeful hostility and/or even wrong kinds of blaming... not that we always live in a just world either when thieves are involved (and it is not even clear sometimes who the thieves are).

I am thinking that some of the recent happenings has gotten Saylor and MSTR to rethink some of its custodial practices, and maybe even engaging in some reconsiderations regarding how to go forward with various kinds of custodial matters, including how it might enter into some relations with traditional banks - including that their decision to pay back early their $205 million loan with Silvergate ended up being a change in plans but also could cause them to reconsider whether and how to employ similar kinds of leveraging possibilities in the future, even though this one may have had worked out better to be able to buy back their loan with a 22% discount... many times normies are not able to get into those kinds of relationships, but even big players can sometimes also end up getting screwed over when third parties might not be in a position to actually be able to return the goods that they were holding as collateral... or sometimes even bankruptcy proceedings can sometimes tie up the abilities of third party entities to enter into settlement agreements that involve assets/debts that they might hold.