MintDice Bitcoin Casino - SportsBook & Provably Fair Games - page 15.

jrrsparkles

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: jrrsparkles on February 07, 2020, 10:51:18 AM

Quote from: imstillthebest on February 07, 2020, 10:16:33 AM

creating account for what . to farm faucet ? that still useless imo because the amount that they can claim is not going to be worth it to gamble . they will only loose this before making it big . increasing the wd threshold can also be a fix to these so that abusers will having a hard time to grind using free money . besides if they really want to go here just to use the faucet , why not try the actual faucet . actual faucets dont have restrictions . they can claim unlimitedly aswell .

You need to complete faucet task for 1000+ times to reach minimum withdrawal time even if you do there won't be anything left out after the transaction fee got paid but in gambling they can directly gamble with that claimed amount so they can have chances of multiplying and can withdraw it with no restrictions.So which is simple for the abusers?

The will to try and take advantages are always inside the minds of abusers, to whatever extent they are trying to compensate if the chance
is there for sure they will do the best that they can. It's tough since the site have restrictions but taking chances and finding some luck gives
gamblers desire to take the risk and efforts.

Most of multi account abusers will get caught at the time of withdrawals and in mintdice transactions are approved manually so chances ae less here for abusers.

josephdd1

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Quote from: Captain Corporate on February 07, 2020, 11:14:20 AM

You guys are forgetting the fact that a person can do this multiple times every single day via an automatic bot. I mean we are not talking about someone dealing with this by hand, he probably just gets a small machine like rasberry or whatever and he puts the bot in there and let the machine do the work. So it doesn't really take any time for that person, he doesn't even have to check, all he has to do is build a bot that will do whatever it takes to make money and if it ever reaches a point that it can withdraw, it just sends it to his wallet, so he literally never has to even look at it as long as it really works. Sure maybe he doesn't achieve what he wants and I hope he never achieves it (from what mintdice mentioned they don't achieve it) but it's definitely not taking that much time after the first build is made.

I completely see your point but even if someone was to aim for such a high level abuse then don't you think that maybe this can be monitored from the casino's side. Like only allow withdrawals from deposits or wins. This of course will require regulation from within about where each player's money is coming from but I feel that perhaps the best solution is to tackle it from within. It won't be cheap though it will deal with all of these problems once and for all

Captain Corporate

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You guys are forgetting the fact that a person can do this multiple times every single day via an automatic bot. I mean we are not talking about someone dealing with this by hand, he probably just gets a small machine like rasberry or whatever and he puts the bot in there and let the machine do the work. So it doesn't really take any time for that person, he doesn't even have to check, all he has to do is build a bot that will do whatever it takes to make money and if it ever reaches a point that it can withdraw, it just sends it to his wallet, so he literally never has to even look at it as long as it really works. Sure maybe he doesn't achieve what he wants and I hope he never achieves it (from what mintdice mentioned they don't achieve it) but it's definitely not taking that much time after the first build is made.

jrrsparkles

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Quote from: imstillthebest on February 07, 2020, 10:16:33 AM

creating account for what . to farm faucet ? that still useless imo because the amount that they can claim is not going to be worth it to gamble . they will only loose this before making it big . increasing the wd threshold can also be a fix to these so that abusers will having a hard time to grind using free money . besides if they really want to go here just to use the faucet , why not try the actual faucet . actual faucets dont have restrictions . they can claim unlimitedly aswell .

You need to complete faucet task for 1000+ times to reach minimum withdrawal time even if you do there won't be anything left out after the transaction fee got paid but in gambling they can directly gamble with that claimed amount so they can have chances of multiplying and can withdraw it with no restrictions.So which is simple for the abusers?

imstillthebest

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Quote from: virasog on February 02, 2020, 04:36:03 AM

Quote from: panjul07 on February 02, 2020, 03:21:38 AM

Quote from: virasog on February 02, 2020, 01:49:21 AM

The best way to stop the faucet abusers is to give the faucet only when the balance is NIL. In this way, a person cannot claim another faucet unless he has lost all the faucet amount in gambling and of course there is no way to withdraw the tiny faucet amount.

Not as simple as that, in fact most faucet on gambling sites are able to be claimed once user's balance is Zero but still there are many people who tried to abuse it.
Faucet abusers will keep on claiming the faucet only with no intentions to do real gambling by making deposit. Once they claim the faucet, they will use it to play, if lose then they will come back again.
They can create many accounts for faucet especially if the amount of the faucet is good enough. That's what we call with faucet abusers.

Didn't understand you. Even if they deposit, they will not be able to claim the faucet because their balance is not zero. If they keep on using the faucet money and losing it and reclaiming, there is nothing wrong in that as the money is returned to he casino.
Making multiple accounts is one thing which can be controlled by KYC or checking the IPs etc.

creating account for what . to farm faucet ? that still useless imo because the amount that they can claim is not going to be worth it to gamble . they will only loose this before making it big . increasing the wd threshold can also be a fix to these so that abusers will having a hard time to grind using free money . besides if they really want to go here just to use the faucet , why not try the actual faucet . actual faucets dont have restrictions . they can claim unlimitedly aswell .

bearexin

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Quote from: Diced90 on February 05, 2020, 03:17:51 PM

Quote from: RealMalatesta on February 05, 2020, 01:32:50 PM

The real surprising thing here is that, if a person is capable of doing something like this for a faucet, how much developing skill does he have that goes unused? I mean we are talking about a guy who built a software that tries the faucet automatically, then if he busts switches the account and IP/VPN to try another account and continues as long as possible until he actually abuses the faucet, now that is some software developing skills right there, I personally wouldn't know how to do that and I have been a web developer for years! So we are talking about a guy who could use these kinds of skills he has on something much more productive instead of destructive and could make a decent amount of money, yet he uses his powers for evil and not for good, which is shocking.

That's the problem, there's so much untapped talent out there. Some of these people will talent end up using it for nefarious purposes.

There's actually an entire term devised for it—criminal ingenuity.

With that said, creating a script to automatically claim faucet and switch IPs is not exactly rocket size. Anybody with basic python knowledge could do it, and you could get a script kiddie to whip one up for less than $100.

I do not think you are estimating the talent for a pyhton knowledge enough to build a script that could claim faucets and gamble and if fails switches IP's and then tries the same thing again and do this over and over again enough to make money for it.

I am not saying its not 100 dollars, that could very well be the issue there, but that is because the whole world is your rival there, if you sell that for 5000 dollars then someone else will do it and believe me there are developers all around the world. However a person who is capable of doing that would also be capable of doing other stuff and that means that unless they live in a farm county or something they could find a job with that talent.

When you sell a script the whole world is your competition, when you apply for a job at a company, only the people who can go to that office is your competition so it is in fact "criminal ingenuity" like you said to use that for selling TOS breaking scripts instead of applying for a job at a nearby company who needs developers.

Diced90

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Get'em boys

Quote from: AmoreJaz on February 06, 2020, 05:25:13 PM

Quote from: Diced90 on February 05, 2020, 03:17:51 PM

Quote from: RealMalatesta on February 05, 2020, 01:32:50 PM

The real surprising thing here is that, if a person is capable of doing something like this for a faucet, how much developing skill does he have that goes unused? I mean we are talking about a guy who built a software that tries the faucet automatically, then if he busts switches the account and IP/VPN to try another account and continues as long as possible until he actually abuses the faucet, now that is some software developing skills right there, I personally wouldn't know how to do that and I have been a web developer for years! So we are talking about a guy who could use these kinds of skills he has on something much more productive instead of destructive and could make a decent amount of money, yet he uses his powers for evil and not for good, which is shocking.

That's the problem, there's so much untapped talent out there. Some of these people will talent end up using it for nefarious purposes.

There's actually an entire term devised for it—criminal ingenuity.

With that said, creating a script to automatically claim faucet and switch IPs is not exactly rocket size. Anybody with basic python knowledge could do it, and you could get a script kiddie to whip one up for less than $100.

i believe mintdice team have already thought about such possible abuse and who knows, they have their tight security measures in place already? being in the gambling industry, you should think of these things esp that softwares are now getting sophisticated.
this is the reason why they are in continuous development, improving their system, checking possible bugs, adding more features on their site etc...

Looks like Mintdice doesn't really get updated often though, it's quite a based platform compared to some of the more recently released dice sites making the rounds on BTT.

Regardless, I'm sure any dice site that isn't completely stupid knows that there will be people trying to abuse the faucet. It's necessary to have stringent controls in place, but also ensure that genuine customers can use the faucet to test out the site.

Getting the balance right is what distinguishes an OK from a GREAT dice site.

AmoreJaz

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Quote from: Diced90 on February 05, 2020, 03:17:51 PM

Quote from: RealMalatesta on February 05, 2020, 01:32:50 PM

The real surprising thing here is that, if a person is capable of doing something like this for a faucet, how much developing skill does he have that goes unused? I mean we are talking about a guy who built a software that tries the faucet automatically, then if he busts switches the account and IP/VPN to try another account and continues as long as possible until he actually abuses the faucet, now that is some software developing skills right there, I personally wouldn't know how to do that and I have been a web developer for years! So we are talking about a guy who could use these kinds of skills he has on something much more productive instead of destructive and could make a decent amount of money, yet he uses his powers for evil and not for good, which is shocking.

That's the problem, there's so much untapped talent out there. Some of these people will talent end up using it for nefarious purposes.

There's actually an entire term devised for it—criminal ingenuity.

With that said, creating a script to automatically claim faucet and switch IPs is not exactly rocket size. Anybody with basic python knowledge could do it, and you could get a script kiddie to whip one up for less than $100.

i believe mintdice team have already thought about such possible abuse and who knows, they have their tight security measures in place already? being in the gambling industry, you should think of these things esp that softwares are now getting sophisticated.
this is the reason why they are in continuous development, improving their system, checking possible bugs, adding more features on their site etc...

noormcs5

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Quote from: JohnBitCo on February 02, 2020, 04:42:09 AM

Quote from: theskillzdatklls on February 01, 2020, 10:31:13 PM

Quote from: darewaller on February 01, 2020, 10:55:47 AM

Maybe there could still be a way to save faucets in all of casinos but I doubt it will ever happen, just to give an example, maybe there could be "play money" type of thing where it worths zero in real life unlike satoshis casinos give out for faucets, that way people could gamble with that fake money and get the fun of the website and they could actually end up liking the website thanks to it and deposit real money and gamble? Wasn't that the purpose of faucet? To show people what kind of website this is and make them gamble without risking anything before they deposit money?

Well, if that is the case people who do not want to deposit but first want to try, can do that with fake play money and after they decide if they like it or not they could deposit or not deposit depending on if they liked it or not.

We already have play money in our faucet too. It gets used a surprisingly large amount. We might gamify it's value down the road as well later.

If the faucet is paying nice and good amount like MintDice, then only because of the abusers this service should not be stopped. Rather steps should be taken to minimize the faucet abusers and encourage good use of faucet by the genuine gamblers.

I sometimes wonder if the faucets too much burden on gambling sites ?

I do understand that mintdice is giving somewhat better amounts through faucets but think about the revenue these sites generates. I think it should not be much of a problem for gambling casino, if they invest some amount in faucets to attract more gamblers.

Diced90

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Get'em boys

Quote from: RealMalatesta on February 05, 2020, 01:32:50 PM

The real surprising thing here is that, if a person is capable of doing something like this for a faucet, how much developing skill does he have that goes unused? I mean we are talking about a guy who built a software that tries the faucet automatically, then if he busts switches the account and IP/VPN to try another account and continues as long as possible until he actually abuses the faucet, now that is some software developing skills right there, I personally wouldn't know how to do that and I have been a web developer for years! So we are talking about a guy who could use these kinds of skills he has on something much more productive instead of destructive and could make a decent amount of money, yet he uses his powers for evil and not for good, which is shocking.

That's the problem, there's so much untapped talent out there. Some of these people will talent end up using it for nefarious purposes.

There's actually an entire term devised for it—criminal ingenuity.

With that said, creating a script to automatically claim faucet and switch IPs is not exactly rocket size. Anybody with basic python knowledge could do it, and you could get a script kiddie to whip one up for less than $100.

mindrust

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Quote from: panjul07 on February 02, 2020, 03:21:38 AM

Quote from: virasog on February 02, 2020, 01:49:21 AM

The best way to stop the faucet abusers is to give the faucet only when the balance is NIL. In this way, a person cannot claim another faucet unless he has lost all the faucet amount in gambling and of course there is no way to withdraw the tiny faucet amount.

Not as simple as that, in fact most faucet on gambling sites are able to be claimed once user's balance is Zero but still there are many people who tried to abuse it.
Faucet abusers will keep on claiming the faucet only with no intentions to do real gambling by making deposit. Once they claim the faucet, they will use it to play, if lose then they will come back again.
They can create many accounts for faucet especially if the amount of the faucet is good enough. That's what we call with faucet abusers.

Don't let faucet abusers to withdraw, problem solved. Only allow to withdraw if the player deposited and wagered the same coins. The other way to fight abusers is, making the claim amount so little so it will be impossible to make big money. (like 1 satoshi) I don't see any other way.

RealMalatesta

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The real surprising thing here is that, if a person is capable of doing something like this for a faucet, how much developing skill does he have that goes unused? I mean we are talking about a guy who built a software that tries the faucet automatically, then if he busts switches the account and IP/VPN to try another account and continues as long as possible until he actually abuses the faucet, now that is some software developing skills right there, I personally wouldn't know how to do that and I have been a web developer for years! So we are talking about a guy who could use these kinds of skills he has on something much more productive instead of destructive and could make a decent amount of money, yet he uses his powers for evil and not for good, which is shocking.

bearexin

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Do we know the investors say in this? I don't know if the faucet is given away from the investors money or the casinos own money so I can't really say anything specific about it.

However, if it is just the casinos money then it would be obvious that casino itself will find a way anyway, they are currently saying they are winning against the abusers so there is nothing to worry about and they are actually doing the right thing for themselves, if they are the ones paying for it, why would we worry about it, they will definitely find the correct way. But if the investors are paying for it, a bit of things change in that scenario, maybe there could be some sort of referendum where investors could decide what should be done about it since it is their money involved.

josephdd1

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Quote from: theskillzdatklls on February 03, 2020, 02:37:17 PM

Quote from: panjul07 on February 02, 2020, 03:21:38 AM

Quote from: virasog on February 02, 2020, 01:49:21 AM

The best way to stop the faucet abusers is to give the faucet only when the balance is NIL. In this way, a person cannot claim another faucet unless he has lost all the faucet amount in gambling and of course there is no way to withdraw the tiny faucet amount.

Not as simple as that, in fact most faucet on gambling sites are able to be claimed once user's balance is Zero but still there are many people who tried to abuse it.
Faucet abusers will keep on claiming the faucet only with no intentions to do real gambling by making deposit. Once they claim the faucet, they will use it to play, if lose then they will come back again.
They can create many accounts for faucet especially if the amount of the faucet is good enough. That's what we call with faucet abusers.

Panjul is the most correct here.

Our faucet rate limits people to a certain number of claims per minute, hour and day.

The most sophisticated abuser we've dealt with on many occasions has set up a system whereby they use multiple accounts, VPN/IP masking and other obfuscation techniques to make it such that when any faucet amount is busted it automatically switches to a new account to run that amount up until one day it makes money. They try to bypass our standard security measures.

But we viewed this as a challenge to stop his progression and after each of his attacks, our system gets stronger each time. His last attack was 3-4 weeks ago I believe and as of yet, he hasn't been able to break our newest system. But he's come back before, may well come back again some time soon.

This is interesting, having a hacker hack your system to make use or 'abuse' your faucet is something I'd probably not boost about as much. I understand that hackers are always trying, but people on here, I suppose as anywhere else, expect to have some sort of safety and even if the system as you say gets updated to deal with these attacks I believe this should happen anyway and get so strong that these hackers stand no chance. Now, this is something you should boost about Sad

theskillzdatklls

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Quote from: panjul07 on February 02, 2020, 03:21:38 AM

Quote from: virasog on February 02, 2020, 01:49:21 AM

The best way to stop the faucet abusers is to give the faucet only when the balance is NIL. In this way, a person cannot claim another faucet unless he has lost all the faucet amount in gambling and of course there is no way to withdraw the tiny faucet amount.

Not as simple as that, in fact most faucet on gambling sites are able to be claimed once user's balance is Zero but still there are many people who tried to abuse it.
Faucet abusers will keep on claiming the faucet only with no intentions to do real gambling by making deposit. Once they claim the faucet, they will use it to play, if lose then they will come back again.
They can create many accounts for faucet especially if the amount of the faucet is good enough. That's what we call with faucet abusers.

Panjul is the most correct here.

Our faucet rate limits people to a certain number of claims per minute, hour and day.

The most sophisticated abuser we've dealt with on many occasions has set up a system whereby they use multiple accounts, VPN/IP masking and other obfuscation techniques to make it such that when any faucet amount is busted it automatically switches to a new account to run that amount up until one day it makes money. They try to bypass our standard security measures.

But we viewed this as a challenge to stop his progression and after each of his attacks, our system gets stronger each time. His last attack was 3-4 weeks ago I believe and as of yet, he hasn't been able to break our newest system. But he's come back before, may well come back again some time soon.

batang_bitcoin

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Quote from: josephdd1 on February 01, 2020, 04:11:49 PM

Even so guys, this faucet abuse you're talking about there's no real benefit for players to use it other than just gaining insight about the games. So, even if there's a few people relying on the faucets the amounts are not enough to withdraw or play games where you can win for real money etc. And if the faucets are not built with these strategies in mind then rather than limiting the potential number of future customers by removing the faucets like you lot suggest which won't be sustainable not to mention that it won't look good on the casino, why not instead use the technology available to limit the power of the faucets in the way I mentioned above? This is something other casinos do btw

If there's no benefit for them, they wouldn't abuse but since they are abusing the system, there's something that they gain from doing that. They do that on purpose and that's why skillz and team are now testing something that might eradicate the abusers or if not, reduce them at least.

RealMalatesta

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Quote from: virasog on February 02, 2020, 01:49:21 AM

Quote from: Shasha80 on February 02, 2020, 12:06:09 AM

Quote from: darewaller on February 01, 2020, 10:55:47 AM

Maybe there could still be a way to save faucets in all of casinos but I doubt it will ever happen, just to give an example, maybe there could be "play money" type of thing where it worths zero in real life unlike satoshis casinos give out for faucets, that way people could gamble with that fake money and get the fun of the website and they could actually end up liking the website thanks to it and deposit real money and gamble? Wasn't that the purpose of faucet? To show people what kind of website this is and make them gamble without risking anything before they deposit money?

Well, if that is the case people who do not want to deposit but first want to try, can do that with fake play money and after they decide if they like it or not they could deposit or not deposit depending on if they liked it or not.

I agree with you, indeed the average gambling site provides faucets or freecoins not to be collected. But for try playing on the site.
I experienced it myself, there are several gambling sites after I tried playing with freecoins capital apparently the system is quite fair
in my opinion. And I immediately without hesitation made a deposit to play gambling on the site. So I also plan to start gambling on
the mintdice site starting with faucets first.

The best way to stop the faucet abusers is to give the faucet only when the balance is NIL. In this way, a person cannot claim another faucet unless he has lost all the faucet amount in gambling and of course there is no way to withdraw the tiny faucet amount.

Maybe they are already doing this however the fact that even when it is zero balance that claims it, bots are the big trouble. So, in order to stop bots you try to find a way to stop the automatic claims and all that, which could be made by limiting the max you can claim back to back, not the first few but lets say a dude is claiming for the first time, that is instant, the second one should be a minute after, the third should be 3 minutes later, the fo.. basically it gets exponential but after one hour of no claiming, it resets back to instant and all the way to start, that way you can make sure people can claim only a certain amount in a day and won't be able to automatically claim constantly, it also would make sure no bots could claim back to back neither since it will take some time in between.

mirrasel

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These type of games are too much addictive Cry

JohnBitCo

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Quote from: theskillzdatklls on February 01, 2020, 10:31:13 PM

Quote from: darewaller on February 01, 2020, 10:55:47 AM

Maybe there could still be a way to save faucets in all of casinos but I doubt it will ever happen, just to give an example, maybe there could be "play money" type of thing where it worths zero in real life unlike satoshis casinos give out for faucets, that way people could gamble with that fake money and get the fun of the website and they could actually end up liking the website thanks to it and deposit real money and gamble? Wasn't that the purpose of faucet? To show people what kind of website this is and make them gamble without risking anything before they deposit money?

Well, if that is the case people who do not want to deposit but first want to try, can do that with fake play money and after they decide if they like it or not they could deposit or not deposit depending on if they liked it or not.

We already have play money in our faucet too. It gets used a surprisingly large amount. We might gamify it's value down the road as well later.

If the faucet is paying nice and good amount like MintDice, then only because of the abusers this service should not be stopped. Rather steps should be taken to minimize the faucet abusers and encourage good use of faucet by the genuine gamblers.

virasog

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Quote from: panjul07 on February 02, 2020, 03:21:38 AM

Quote from: virasog on February 02, 2020, 01:49:21 AM

The best way to stop the faucet abusers is to give the faucet only when the balance is NIL. In this way, a person cannot claim another faucet unless he has lost all the faucet amount in gambling and of course there is no way to withdraw the tiny faucet amount.

Not as simple as that, in fact most faucet on gambling sites are able to be claimed once user's balance is Zero but still there are many people who tried to abuse it.
Faucet abusers will keep on claiming the faucet only with no intentions to do real gambling by making deposit. Once they claim the faucet, they will use it to play, if lose then they will come back again.
They can create many accounts for faucet especially if the amount of the faucet is good enough. That's what we call with faucet abusers.

Didn't understand you. Even if they deposit, they will not be able to claim the faucet because their balance is not zero. If they keep on using the faucet money and losing it and reclaiming, there is nothing wrong in that as the money is returned to he casino.
Making multiple accounts is one thing which can be controlled by KYC or checking the IPs etc.

Topic: MintDice Bitcoin Casino - SportsBook & Provably Fair Games - page 15. (Read 35091 times)