Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM..... - page 165.

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Quote from: Captain Corporate on March 19, 2023, 04:20:06 PM

Between Alonso having 5 second penalty (which then turned into 10 seconds) and Max having trouble in Q2 that made Perez win a lot easier. Otherwise, if Alonso didn't had that penalty or Max started at anywhere top 5 which he would have been easily pole position but even assuming top 5, Perez wouldn't have won this. Just look at the difference by the end, about 5 second difference even though Max started at 15th and Perez had pole. All in all this shows once again, even though Perez won, we can easily say that Max is clearly the better driver, some argue that they may have some fight on who to with ala Nico vs Hamilton style but there is absolutely no way that happens.

It was amazing to see Verstappen, who started in 15th position, still win (even though he was in second place) but that in itself proves how monstrous Verstappen is and his mentality is maintained even when he is penalized. That proves how a true champion maintains his performance.

And for Alonso I also admire him because even though he was penalized he was still able to maintain his performance and finished third, that shows how he still tries to be the best.

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Quote from: LTU_btc on March 19, 2023, 05:25:20 PM

Quote from: swogerino on March 19, 2023, 03:50:26 PM

That is stupid and intentional,first of all how did they know that they didn't touch the car to become ready and not to gain an advantage but they read it as gaining an advantage which was not the case and this clearly shows the impact that the Mercedes team still has on the FIA together with Redbull who got a Safety Car for nothing,they even justified it that it was because of the GPS saying Stroll parked the car on track,ridiculous decisions during this race which impacted the race for the worse,I think that Alonso fully deserved the podium but that is racing.

So, FIA returned 3rd place to Alonso after Aston Martin made protest:
https://twitter.com/F1/status/1637576746324094976
It means that they investigated that moment for 35 laps and award ceremony - it's more than enough time to make detailed investigation and make right decision. But after protest and another investigation they decided to change decision. It would be very interesting to read explanation from FIA because what they did today is more than ridiculous.

I don't get it either. They waited too long to make a decision, handed and upped the penalty during awarding, then retract everything when called out for. What is the FIA doing? They're making the scene look ridiculous by not making up their mind and doing what they're supposed to do: officiate races fairly and smoothly.

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Quote from: LTU_btc on March 19, 2023, 05:25:20 PM

So, FIA returned 3rd place to Alonso after Aston Martin made protest:
https://twitter.com/F1/status/1637576746324094976

Yeah, this is quite unusual.

Anyway, the season seems already to be over. Red Bulls were 1 second faster in comparison to the others teams.

Seems like the case, and would be for future seasons. That car alone is just insane to beat no matter how tricked out the second best car (Ferrari or Aston Martin), it won't come close to what Red Bull did to that monster of a car.

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Quote from: LTU_btc on March 19, 2023, 05:25:20 PM

So, FIA returned 3rd place to Alonso after Aston Martin made protest:
https://twitter.com/F1/status/1637576746324094976

Yeah, this is quite unusual.

Anyway, the season seems already to be over. Red Bulls were 1 second faster in comparison to the others teams.

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Quote from: swogerino on March 19, 2023, 03:50:26 PM

That is stupid and intentional,first of all how did they know that they didn't touch the car to become ready and not to gain an advantage but they read it as gaining an advantage which was not the case and this clearly shows the impact that the Mercedes team still has on the FIA together with Redbull who got a Safety Car for nothing,they even justified it that it was because of the GPS saying Stroll parked the car on track,ridiculous decisions during this race which impacted the race for the worse,I think that Alonso fully deserved the podium but that is racing.

So, FIA returned 3rd place to Alonso after Aston Martin made protest:
https://twitter.com/F1/status/1637576746324094976
It means that they investigated that moment for 35 laps and award ceremony - it's more than enough time to make detailed investigation and make right decision. But after protest and another investigation they decided to change decision. It would be very interesting to read explanation from FIA because what they did today is more than ridiculous.

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Between Alonso having 5 second penalty (which then turned into 10 seconds) and Max having trouble in Q2 that made Perez win a lot easier. Otherwise, if Alonso didn't had that penalty or Max started at anywhere top 5 which he would have been easily pole position but even assuming top 5, Perez wouldn't have won this. Just look at the difference by the end, about 5 second difference even though Max started at 15th and Perez had pole. All in all this shows once again, even though Perez won, we can easily say that Max is clearly the better driver, some argue that they may have some fight on who to with ala Nico vs Hamilton style but there is absolutely no way that happens.

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Perez was lucky about getting that win by the way. Because Verstappen would have got past him quite easily if he didn't have a problem in his car again. This problem just caused the gap between him and Perez to get bigger and be maintained later on. Actually Perez also had an issue for some time but it wasn't a hindrance for him to win the race comfortably. This was a solid work by Perez in the Saudi Arabia GP after having an unlucky race here in the previous season. Even the safety car was in favour of him in this race unlike the previous one here.

I also agree that the safety car decision was totally wrong. Stroll positioned his car in a great place outside the track. It was like there wasn't any danger as it was out of the track completely.

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It is that Verstappen had to start from 15th place, otherwise he would have easily won this race again. But the luck for Verstappen was that he had mechanical problems during qualifying and not during the race itself. It must be extremely frustrating for Hamilton to drive around in this car. For almost 10 years, Mercedes has dominated this sport, but since the rise of Red Bull everything is changing. It seems that Red Bull is the team that exudes pure control and dominance. There are a few new riders, they must have swallowed twice if you ride with more than 300 on certain parts.

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Quote from: LTU_btc on March 19, 2023, 01:58:29 PM

It's ridiculous, Alonso got 10 second time penalty for not serving penalty correctly. Ok, rules are rules, but why did they waited so long to make decision and announced it after podium? So, now Russel becomes 3rd.
Perez is doing great in city circuits, it's his 5th win, 4 of them were achieved in street circuits.

Quote from: coinlocket$ on March 19, 2023, 12:37:36 PM

Don't know why they even called this a safety car.
Stroll was outside the track, now Max got an huge advantage and he will probably win.

For me it also looked strange. Virtual Safety car or even yellow flag would be enough. It helped a lot for Max and with fastest lap he keeps 1st place in championship.

That is stupid and intentional,first of all how did they know that they didn't touch the car to become ready and not to gain an advantage but they read it as gaining an advantage which was not the case and this clearly shows the impact that the Mercedes team still has on the FIA together with Redbull who got a Safety Car for nothing,they even justified it that it was because of the GPS saying Stroll parked the car on track,ridiculous decisions during this race which impacted the race for the worse,I think that Alonso fully deserved the podium but that is racing.

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It's ridiculous, Alonso got 10 second time penalty for not serving penalty correctly. Ok, rules are rules, but why did they waited so long to make decision and announced it after podium? So, now Russel becomes 3rd.
Perez is doing great in city circuits, it's his 5th win, 4 of them were achieved in street circuits.

Quote from: coinlocket$ on March 19, 2023, 12:37:36 PM

Don't know why they even called this a safety car.
Stroll was outside the track, now Max got an huge advantage and he will probably win.

For me it also looked strange. Virtual Safety car or even yellow flag would be enough. It helped a lot for Max and with fastest lap he keeps 1st place in championship.

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Perez has won and Verstappen has become 2nd after a catch-up race. What a top weekend for Red Bull, although they might have preferred to see the numbers 1 and 2 reversed on the podium. Max will perhaps be disappointed somewhere because he wants to trade his record from last year to smithereens. You can still do that. However, he will give it to Sergio Perez. Mercedes has again been quite disappointing, or is that perhaps part of the expectations of Mercedes these days? De Vries did not drive badly in itself, but had some bad luck here and there in certain parts of the race.

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on March 19, 2023, 12:37:36 PM

Don't know why they even called this a safety car.
Stroll was outside the track, now Max got an huge advantage and he will probably win.

They justified themselves by saying that we put the Safety Car in because in the GPS we saw it saying that the Aston Martin has been parked on track and that is why they put the Safety Car in.That was a clearly huge advantage to Max Verstappen but at least Perez did not lose his lead like he did on last year where he lost the lead because he entered the pits 1 lap before the Safety Car coming in.Even if it was no Safety Car I think Max Verstappen would have managed to come third or second,that Redbull looks like another planet,when it surpassed another car Verstappen made it look like F1 vs F2 while F2 I am referring to the other cars,not a single car being able to hold him off,it will be a boring season for us fans.

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Don't know why they even called this a safety car.
Stroll was outside the track, now Max got an huge advantage and he will probably win.

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Quote from: BitcoinAccepted on March 19, 2023, 11:35:21 AM

Quote from: Zackgeno96 on March 19, 2023, 10:49:14 AM

In just over an hour we will start the race in Saudi Arabia. We have many questions, but the key question is how will Verstappen do from 15th place? That can go either way. it will also depend on how many places he can take up with the start, 14 cars in front of you is very difficult to get close right away. Actually, only Perez is really better now, not as a driver but purely because of the fact that he can start 1st later. Also great for Alonso that he is doing so well in the Aston Martin. Leclerc did well in qualifying but the engine was tinkered with so was moved back 10 places. Top speeds of 240 km per hour are reached on this circuit. That's really very very fast.

I think Verstappen is just going to win this. I think they were 1.5 seconds per lap faster than Mercedes in free practice and in the GP, which says something. It is a dangerous circuit because of these high speeds, Max is the one who can handle this best and would still drive through the streets at 500 km per hour if he had to. No other driver dares to ride with such risk and precision, which also sets him apart from the rest. We shouldn't be surprised if Verstappen is already in the first 3 after 10 laps, and then it's countdown. But for Perez it would also be nice to stay ahead of his teammate. Tricky mission for Leclerc from 12th.

Verstappen can only win this race if he is helped by a Safety Car as there is no other possibility under normal race conditions as Perez who will start first surely will make a distance no matter that Verstappen is faster than him.He is faster than Perez but they have the same car,so he can only be faster from 0.3-0.5 seconds per lap and this on a very optimistic prediction.Nevertheless all of our doubts will be shortly answered as just 15 minutes from now the race will start.What is nice is that maybe Alonso can overtake Perez in the start which would make the race much but much better to watch then,Alonso is not that fast compared to Redbull so he can play a role in shortening the distance between the cars.

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Quote from: Zackgeno96 on March 19, 2023, 10:49:14 AM

In just over an hour we will start the race in Saudi Arabia. We have many questions, but the key question is how will Verstappen do from 15th place? That can go either way. it will also depend on how many places he can take up with the start, 14 cars in front of you is very difficult to get close right away. Actually, only Perez is really better now, not as a driver but purely because of the fact that he can start 1st later. Also great for Alonso that he is doing so well in the Aston Martin. Leclerc did well in qualifying but the engine was tinkered with so was moved back 10 places. Top speeds of 240 km per hour are reached on this circuit. That's really very very fast.

I think Verstappen is just going to win this. I think they were 1.5 seconds per lap faster than Mercedes in free practice and in the GP, which says something. It is a dangerous circuit because of these high speeds, Max is the one who can handle this best and would still drive through the streets at 500 km per hour if he had to. No other driver dares to ride with such risk and precision, which also sets him apart from the rest. We shouldn't be surprised if Verstappen is already in the first 3 after 10 laps, and then it's countdown. But for Perez it would also be nice to stay ahead of his teammate. Tricky mission for Leclerc from 12th.

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In just over an hour we will start the race in Saudi Arabia. We have many questions, but the key question is how will Verstappen do from 15th place? That can go either way. it will also depend on how many places he can take up with the start, 14 cars in front of you is very difficult to get close right away. Actually, only Perez is really better now, not as a driver but purely because of the fact that he can start 1st later. Also great for Alonso that he is doing so well in the Aston Martin. Leclerc did well in qualifying but the engine was tinkered with so was moved back 10 places. Top speeds of 240 km per hour are reached on this circuit. That's really very very fast.

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Quote from: tokeweed on March 19, 2023, 09:02:50 AM

Quote from: alegotardo on March 18, 2023, 08:32:41 PM

Just speaking the truth... Ferrari approached again with Charles Leclerc being a thousandths slower, but we know very well, because it's no secret to anyone that Ferrari drive much better on Saturdays than on Sundays Tongue

Anyway, apart from the truth above, if you can say something about this classification is that nothing went as expected because I had Max Verstapen being the big favorite in the grid definition... but what I saw is that the leader of the championship, despite of even letting rivals get close, ended up being the victim of a problem that can affect any driver. Lucky for Sergio Pérez... will he be able to take advantage of this pole position?

Perez will try to take advantage of the pole position but then there's a possbilty that if Verstappen squeezes himself into second place and the gap between him and Perez isn't more than 5 seconds and with Verstappen closing in at every lap, we'll def see team orders here. Dunno... We've seen it a couple of times last year with RBR and a lot of times over the years in F1... It's gonna be hilarious but what choice do they have? If Verstappen is gaining ever lap might as well get ahead of themselves and let Verstappen pass. It would suck for the fans tho as we wanna see these guys race.

I don't think that there is that big of a difference between the drivers judging from their starting positions,Perez if able to get out first from the first corner has a clear road ahead of him which gives him a great chance to start increasing the gap to Verstappen.Verstappen may start to do faster laps only after the third lap which is the lap that the DRS is enabled and since he most likely will be chasing cars I think that DRS can help him move up the grid but unfortunately this won't be enough to stop Perez who probably has already created the distance.There are a lot of scenarios for this race but a Safety Car here would greatly enhance the chances of Verstappen for a win,in every other way I doubt he can win if no Safety Car has entered the track.

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Quote from: alegotardo on March 18, 2023, 08:32:41 PM

Just speaking the truth... Ferrari approached again with Charles Leclerc being a thousandths slower, but we know very well, because it's no secret to anyone that Ferrari drive much better on Saturdays than on Sundays Tongue

Anyway, apart from the truth above, if you can say something about this classification is that nothing went as expected because I had Max Verstapen being the big favorite in the grid definition... but what I saw is that the leader of the championship, despite of even letting rivals get close, ended up being the victim of a problem that can affect any driver. Lucky for Sergio Pérez... will he be able to take advantage of this pole position?

Perez will try to take advantage of the pole position but then there's a possbilty that if Verstappen squeezes himself into second place and the gap between him and Perez isn't more than 5 seconds and with Verstappen closing in at every lap, we'll def see team orders here. Dunno... We've seen it a couple of times last year with RBR and a lot of times over the years in F1... It's gonna be hilarious but what choice do they have? If Verstappen is gaining ever lap might as well get ahead of themselves and let Verstappen pass. It would suck for the fans tho as we wanna see these guys race.

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Quote from: alegotardo on March 18, 2023, 08:32:41 PM

Just speaking the truth... Ferrari approached again with Charles Leclerc being a thousandths slower, but we know very well, because it's no secret to anyone that Ferrari drive much better on Saturdays than on Sundays Tongue

Anyway, apart from the truth above, if you can say something about this classification is that nothing went as expected because I had Max Verstapen being the big favorite in the grid definition... but what I saw is that the leader of the championship, despite of even letting rivals get close, ended up being the victim of a problem that can affect any driver. Lucky for Sergio Pérez... will he be able to take advantage of this pole position?

@alegotardo indeed what happened with Verstappen was totally shocking, but in a way this incident makes this race very exciting to watch because if he can yet end up winning it then he’ll do it in style. However Alonso and Leclerc will be also be keen to make sure that he doesn’t win it and they definitely do have the advantage, thus I’m eagerly waiting for this race to begin and dying to know who’ll end up winning it.

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Just speaking the truth... Ferrari approached again with Charles Leclerc being a thousandths slower, but we know very well, because it's no secret to anyone that Ferrari drive much better on Saturdays than on Sundays Tongue

Anyway, apart from the truth above, if you can say something about this classification is that nothing went as expected because I had Max Verstapen being the big favorite in the grid definition... but what I saw is that the leader of the championship, despite of even letting rivals get close, ended up being the victim of a problem that can affect any driver. Lucky for Sergio Pérez... will he be able to take advantage of this pole position?

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Being fast is one thing, and Max with that Red Bull car could always go super high with this car, I don't doubt that. But lets be realistic and face the fact that if Perez and Alonso takes off without crashing, and Max can't pass too many cars right on the first turn, then we are going to end up seeing him hunt cars one by one. To do that you spend a lot of laps, you don't pass 10 cars in a single lap normally, which doesn't mean its impossible, of course he could be 5th after first lap too, but usually that's not how it happens. So that means Perez and Alonso would be already gone by the time he has a chance to chase them, and that is why this race will be pretty difficult for him to win. I still think Perez will win, so Red Bull will be fine, but Max has a very hard job tomorrow.

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