Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM..... - page 167.

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Quote from: retreat on December 21, 2022, 01:21:47 AM

Quote from: darewaller on December 18, 2022, 05:51:21 PM

This year we have Ricciardio for Red Bull reserve, and Mick for Mercedes reserves, those are F1 drivers who already raced and proven themselves, why would they get reserve drivers at that level and not some young one? I understand maybe Mick is young but is he really a future Mercedes driver level? Doubt that.

You can see that Ricciardio's performance in the last few races has dropped quite a bit and he admits that. He even said that he was quite glad not to be offered a seat on Red Bull's top team, because he also admitted that there were still many things he wanted to improve in the upcoming season.

I admit that Ricciardio is a potential driver and has the opportunity to be able to compete with other drivers, but it seems that he is no longer eager to compete in future races because his performance continues to get worse and it is better for him to be able to stop for a while and fix his many shortcomings in future races.

Ricciardo age is not young anymore,if I remember correctly he started in a USA track,most likely it was Indianapolis and that was more than ten years ago from now,so I don't understand how he can say that he would not want a top seat in the Redbull team now that they are at the peak of their performance.I think Ricciardo was forced to say that because he already knew that seats were already taken for the next season,so his only chance is 2024 or even 2025 if he can wait that long and Perez does not show a good performance during such seasons.

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Quote from: Luzin on December 19, 2022, 10:52:14 AM

I just read that in motoGP there will be a Sprint Race. This format will take effect in the 2023 season. So In one series the driver will have 2 races. Sprint race on Saturday and Regular race on Sunday. In this Sprint race, drivers will get half the points from the regular race. So there will be 37 points if the driver can win in that one series.
Looks interesting or will it be boring? I don't really like this decision. I think indeed the championship competition will be more open but the drivers will expend more energy. Maybe the injury will be greater.

I don't think so, The sprint race will be eliminating FP4 as the time to did FP4 will be dedicated for the FP4 but i think that the racers need to divide its concentration into the two stage. The sprint race will give half of points from the main race but im sure that will give a huge impact to the racer. The decision already taken to attract more interest from veiwers but i don't even think if sprint race will give significant impact to the demand of motogp.
It may make the main race become boring.

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Quote from: swogerino on December 20, 2022, 11:12:47 AM

Quote from: tokeweed on December 20, 2022, 10:56:37 AM

Schumacher could be driver no. 2 if Mercedes commits with Russell to be their first driver. I don't think Merc could acquire Verstappen or Norris as they both have long term contracts with their teams. They could tempt Leclerc away from Ferrari tho.

I would love to see Leclerc at Mercedes.I don't like him personally as a driver but this year he showed great skill and performance in those races where Ferrari had the upper edge.Beautiful battle in Silverstone between three drivers and one of them was Leclerc,he won in Austria with the gas pedal not working at all and a few more good deeds by him.

At Mercedes I doubt they have first and second driver but they choose one based on the results of the start of the season,they can't have first driver Russell if for example Hamilton wins the first three races.

Yup, I wouldn't mind seeing it happen too. He's a good driver that hasn't reached his full potential yet because Ferrari has been sucking in strategy and execution as of late. Vettel has a high opinion of him as a driver, even wrote him a note saying so when Vettel left Ferrari. I don't get why everybody hated Vettel when he was winning with Red Bull and saying he's not a fast driver. If that was true then why couldn't Webber beat him during quali or the race? People seem to forget there are two driver, not one. Lol.

And Merc would prolly have no defined first or second driver if it was Leclerc - Russell. Other than that, it's Russell as first driver... Blimey.

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Quote from: darewaller on December 18, 2022, 05:51:21 PM

This year we have Ricciardio for Red Bull reserve, and Mick for Mercedes reserves, those are F1 drivers who already raced and proven themselves, why would they get reserve drivers at that level and not some young one? I understand maybe Mick is young but is he really a future Mercedes driver level? Doubt that.

You can see that Ricciardio's performance in the last few races has dropped quite a bit and he admits that. He even said that he was quite glad not to be offered a seat on Red Bull's top team, because he also admitted that there were still many things he wanted to improve in the upcoming season.

I admit that Ricciardio is a potential driver and has the opportunity to be able to compete with other drivers, but it seems that he is no longer eager to compete in future races because his performance continues to get worse and it is better for him to be able to stop for a while and fix his many shortcomings in future races.

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Quote from: emrecemsan on December 20, 2022, 05:12:08 PM

Verstappen made a comment about F1 drivers again and his target was clearly Perez of course. He said that some drivers should know their place and accept that they are not better than their teammates. He gave Bottas as an example as well. He really didn't make difficulties for Hamilton much in general. He accepted being the second driver and obeyed by team calls nearly all the time. Verstappen is clearly expecting Perez to do the same not to have in-team problems. We all know how ambitious Verstappen is so he might make this a big problem.

This discussion will create a lot of controversy between the two in 2023. Verstappen's reports demonstrate that his friendship with his teammate is definitely over.

Perez is quite confused, I think. On the one hand he has the feeling that he is definitely better than Verstappen and that he believes he can beat him. On the other hand, he has a super "weird" car that seems to always have the brake on and the tires always cold, there is no performance that allows him to demonstrate more of his potential.

These conflicts are making Perez quite "rebellious" and the feelings are showing to everyone!
Then, to make matters worse, now comes Vertappen and calls Perez with Botas... this will still cause a lot of confusion!

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Verstappen made a comment about F1 drivers again and his target was clearly Perez of course. He said that some drivers should know their place and accept that they are not better than their teammates. He gave Bottas as an example as well. He really didn't make difficulties for Hamilton much in general. He accepted being the second driver and obeyed by team calls nearly all the time. Verstappen is clearly expecting Perez to do the same not to have in-team problems. We all know how ambitious Verstappen is so he might make this a big problem.

We all remember the Verstappen - Ricciardo relationship. The one between Verstappen and Perez might turn into that one in the future. After what Verstappen did to Perez and cost him losing the second spot, Perez might not stay calm from now on. I expect him to do his best to compete with Verstappen as well.

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I agree that it would not be Mick, but it will also not be someone amazing like Charles or Lando norris neither because they need someone who would be a second driver to George instead. I am guessing someone at the levels of Gasly or Ocon could be a lot better, they are not as bad as Mick, but not good enough to want to be the first driver neither like Charles would.

One thing I know is that we are going to watch Charles vs Max vs George for a long time, Max is ahead already, but we will see those three fight each other for almost a decade and that will be our future. Let's see what 2026 will bring, but F1 is safe with this three fighting against each other every year.

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Quote from: tokeweed on December 20, 2022, 10:56:37 AM

Schumacher could be driver no. 2 if Mercedes commits with Russell to be their first driver. I don't think Merc could acquire Verstappen or Norris as they both have long term contracts with their teams. They could tempt Leclerc away from Ferrari tho.

I would love to see Leclerc at Mercedes.I don't like him personally as a driver but this year he showed great skill and performance in those races where Ferrari had the upper edge.Beautiful battle in Silverstone between three drivers and one of them was Leclerc,he won in Austria with the gas pedal not working at all and a few more good deeds by him.

At Mercedes I doubt they have first and second driver but they choose one based on the results of the start of the season,they can't have first driver Russell if for example Hamilton wins the first three races.

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Quote from: CLS63 on December 18, 2022, 03:51:16 PM

Ferrari are claiming that they are back in their old strength again now. They are saying that they have the fastest car on the grid once again. I have heard about another thing also like they had to cut the power of the engine by a significant percent and this held them back from fighting with Red Bull at the same level.

Maybe they are saying the truth about winning their real power back now. We saw an example of it at the beginning of this season in the end. They were very promising. The only thing they need to do this time is to keep consistency. They need to work with better workers to have a season with minimum amount of problems. If we see them having durability issues again it would be a really big disappointment.

They're 'old strength' again now? And how can that really be when their best engineer has already resigned. People seem to forget that Binotto was the guy who has done a lot of the work on Ferrari's title winning cars with Michael Schumacher. I think to really get their old strength back, the Ferrari F1 board should go to Binotto then grovel and plead for him to work with them again because if he goes to another team with money, say McLaren, then the rest better watch out.

Quote from: tygeade on December 19, 2022, 05:51:32 PM

Quote from: swogerino on December 18, 2022, 05:57:55 PM

I think from the two Mick has made a very good choice as we all know Hamilton cannot race for more than 2-3 upcoming seasons at maximum performance,he can race for much more but his performance would be on the downside rather than on the upside and Mick is just waiting for his time to come to show his skills.I see a big future for him at Mercedes and most probably at Mercedes believe in him too otherwise they would have not signed him up.

Ricciardo I think was forced to go there as he had no other options and I see him as a driver which has already gave his best in F1,he is a winner of races and even won with McLaren but unfortunately he could not get a seat for next season so he settled at Redbull once again as reserve driver.

And you imagined that Mercedes would replace Hamilton with Mick? There is absolutely no way that Mercedes would hire him, they would be able to get anyone aside from maybe Charles and Max, all other racers are fine for them, get Norris if you want, young talented driver after all.

The idea that they would get Mick to replace Hamilton is impossible, so much so that there is a chance they won't even keep him at reserve driver spot until Hamilton retires, they may get a younger better guy there as well. I still think reserve drivers should drive for F2 though, that would be a lot better and all should be there, it would definitely improve the chances.

Schumacher could be driver no. 2 if Mercedes commits with Russell to be their first driver. I don't think Merc could acquire Verstappen or Norris as they both have long term contracts with their teams. They could tempt Leclerc away from Ferrari tho.

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Quote from: swogerino on December 18, 2022, 05:57:55 PM

I think from the two Mick has made a very good choice as we all know Hamilton cannot race for more than 2-3 upcoming seasons at maximum performance,he can race for much more but his performance would be on the downside rather than on the upside and Mick is just waiting for his time to come to show his skills.I see a big future for him at Mercedes and most probably at Mercedes believe in him too otherwise they would have not signed him up.

Ricciardo I think was forced to go there as he had no other options and I see him as a driver which has already gave his best in F1,he is a winner of races and even won with McLaren but unfortunately he could not get a seat for next season so he settled at Redbull once again as reserve driver.

And you imagined that Mercedes would replace Hamilton with Mick? There is absolutely no way that Mercedes would hire him, they would be able to get anyone aside from maybe Charles and Max, all other racers are fine for them, get Norris if you want, young talented driver after all.

The idea that they would get Mick to replace Hamilton is impossible, so much so that there is a chance they won't even keep him at reserve driver spot until Hamilton retires, they may get a younger better guy there as well. I still think reserve drivers should drive for F2 though, that would be a lot better and all should be there, it would definitely improve the chances.

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Quote from: Distraction on December 19, 2022, 04:43:58 PM

Mercedes just needed a driver who can accept being the second driver of the team without making it much problem. I think they have really found that one. Mick Schumacher is like one of the most easy going drivers on the grid now. I haven't seen him having issues with Magnussen so far. When it comes to the competition between Magnussen and Mick, I'm afraid Magnussen has seemed the better side. Mick doesn't seem like a very talented driver to me for now. Haas made a big progress this season by increasing the power of the car a lot but Mick couldn't take advantage of it as much as Magnussen.

Mick would be a decent second driver by taking Hamilton's place and he wouldn't be much trouble for Russell I think. Russell would really like to have a teammate like him as Russell is very competitive and hungry for wins.

We don't know this.We don't know how Mick will behave in a winning car,he has not been in a better car than Haas which has been the best for him,differently Magnussen has been before in better teams than Haas and he of course has much more experience than Mick Schumacher.I think we should wait to see Mick in a Mercedes,in a winning car as I believe even drivers not up to the level of talent of Hamilton and Verstappen have won races with that car and Nico Rosberg even the Championship season of 2016 if I remember it correctly.

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Mercedes just needed a driver who can accept being the second driver of the team without making it much problem. I think they have really found that one. Mick Schumacher is like one of the most easy going drivers on the grid now. I haven't seen him having issues with Magnussen so far. When it comes to the competition between Magnussen and Mick, I'm afraid Magnussen has seemed the better side. Mick doesn't seem like a very talented driver to me for now. Haas made a big progress this season by increasing the power of the car a lot but Mick couldn't take advantage of it as much as Magnussen.

Mick would be a decent second driver by taking Hamilton's place and he wouldn't be much trouble for Russell I think. Russell would really like to have a teammate like him as Russell is very competitive and hungry for wins.

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I just read that in motoGP there will be a Sprint Race. This format will take effect in the 2023 season. So In one series the driver will have 2 races. Sprint race on Saturday and Regular race on Sunday. In this Sprint race, drivers will get half the points from the regular race. So there will be 37 points if the driver can win in that one series.
Looks interesting or will it be boring? I don't really like this decision. I think indeed the championship competition will be more open but the drivers will expend more energy. Maybe the injury will be greater.

Source: https://www.motogp.com/en/news/2022/08/20/sprint-races-to-be-introduced-at-all-grands-prix-from-2023/431993

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Quote from: swogerino on December 17, 2022, 06:24:15 PM

Quote from: coinlocket$ on December 17, 2022, 06:16:49 PM

I hadn't seen this.
Mick Schumacher finished his career with the Ferrari Academy last year and has now signed for a new team.

At the moment he is a reserve driver for Mercedes.

Source: https://www.formulapassion.it/motorsport/formula-1/f1-piloti/schumacher-sempre-sentito-vicino-alla-mercedes

Well that says a lot about his future don't you think,I think when Hamilton moves away after a couple of years Mercedes likes to go with the son of the legend at Ferrari,they are most probably trying to make him a great driver during this time by giving him time to test the Mercedes car so he can be ready when the time comes to win Championships.

I don't think has some special skills compared to other drivers but I like him seeing drive a really good fast car like Mercedes because I think everybody deserve a chance,this is a great move for him and I can't wait when the time come to see him driving a Mercedes in a race.

A young man who does his best not to bring his father's fame to the fore. Leaving aside his personality, one has to be blind or a Mclaren fan that his father used to sing in order to deny that he is talented. His teammate magnussen took the advantage of his experience in the first 3-5 races last year, while the teams could not get used to the new regulation, he collected 15-20 points and ate his bread throughout the season. The first 3-5 races of the season were almost in the haas redbull setting, while mercedes was hanging out like williams. It's like the guy just crossed max, leclerc and got pole in the daily sun with his haas tractor.

All in all, I think Mick made the right decision. Toto will provide him with the necessary environment for his development. Also, Hamilton seems to be better with his teammates even though he still wants the championship. Which he himself had inherited from Michael at Mercedes. Now, after all the championships that have passed, wouldn't it be a legend if he handed the seat back to Schumacher?

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Quote from: Koal-84 on December 19, 2022, 09:24:59 AM

Quote from: coinlocket$ on December 17, 2022, 06:33:25 PM

Hamilton should have max 2 more years in F1, and who will take his spot?

The 1st driver will be probably Russell and Mick could actually be a good second driver.

I don't think they will go with 2 strong driver cause the history teach a lesson (Alonso-Hamilton 2008, Rosberg-Hamilton 2016)

I don't think Mike will ever get a regular driver place at Mercedes. Unlike his father, he simply doesn't have the talent for Formula 1, and without the Schumacher name he probably wouldn't even have made it this far. But Mike is still young and can convince me of the opposite, even if I don't believe in it, at Haas he simply made too many mistakes and also failed very often or wrecked the car.

That is something that can happen also because Mick was not happy with the car and pushed to hard which in turn cost him many mistakes and crashes alone and with other drivers,it shows that most probably he wanted to squeeze far more than the car was capable and this is the most likely scenario,maybe he has not his father talent but I will say so only after I have seen him driving a good car,his father won most of his titles with Ferrari and those with Benetton at a time when that car was the best,so I want to see him drive for a good team before judging him.

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on December 17, 2022, 06:33:25 PM

Hamilton should have max 2 more years in F1, and who will take his spot?

The 1st driver will be probably Russell and Mick could actually be a good second driver.

I don't think they will go with 2 strong driver cause the history teach a lesson (Alonso-Hamilton 2008, Rosberg-Hamilton 2016)

I don't think Mike will ever get a regular driver place at Mercedes. Unlike his father, he simply doesn't have the talent for Formula 1, and without the Schumacher name he probably wouldn't even have made it this far. But Mike is still young and can convince me of the opposite, even if I don't believe in it, at Haas he simply made too many mistakes and also failed very often or wrecked the car.

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Quote from: darewaller on December 18, 2022, 05:51:21 PM

It's really weird to see reserve drivers becoming good drivers as well. Back in the day, and still true for some teams, the reserve driver mindset was getting a very young driver who was also allowed to drive somewhere else, like endurance places and such and then put him in for practice stuff and maybe a few races if the driver wasn't available like sick or something.

This year we have Ricciardio for Red Bull reserve, and Mick for Mercedes reserves, those are F1 drivers who already raced and proven themselves, why would they get reserve drivers at that level and not some young one? I understand maybe Mick is young but is he really a future Mercedes driver level? Doubt that.

I think from the two Mick has made a very good choice as we all know Hamilton cannot race for more than 2-3 upcoming seasons at maximum performance,he can race for much more but his performance would be on the downside rather than on the upside and Mick is just waiting for his time to come to show his skills.I see a big future for him at Mercedes and most probably at Mercedes believe in him too otherwise they would have not signed him up.

Ricciardo I think was forced to go there as he had no other options and I see him as a driver which has already gave his best in F1,he is a winner of races and even won with McLaren but unfortunately he could not get a seat for next season so he settled at Redbull once again as reserve driver.

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It's really weird to see reserve drivers becoming good drivers as well. Back in the day, and still true for some teams, the reserve driver mindset was getting a very young driver who was also allowed to drive somewhere else, like endurance places and such and then put him in for practice stuff and maybe a few races if the driver wasn't available like sick or something.

This year we have Ricciardio for Red Bull reserve, and Mick for Mercedes reserves, those are F1 drivers who already raced and proven themselves, why would they get reserve drivers at that level and not some young one? I understand maybe Mick is young but is he really a future Mercedes driver level? Doubt that.

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Ferrari is working on the reliability of the engine.

https://www.formulapassion.it/motorsport/formula-1/f1-team/power-unit-ferrari-2023-laffidabilita-vale-30-cavalli-in-piu-motore-turbo-mguh

As you may know, the progress of the engines is frozen until 2026 the only reason why they can change them is for security manners.

Now Ferrari has proven to have a weak engine so they can work on it.

According to the website above they are speaking about 30hp an increment for next year.

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Quote from: CLS63 on December 18, 2022, 03:51:16 PM

Ferrari are claiming that they are back in their old strength again now. They are saying that they have the fastest car on the grid once again. I have heard about another thing also like they had to cut the power of the engine by a significant percent and this held them back from fighting with Red Bull at the same level.

Maybe they are saying the truth about winning their real power back now. We saw an example of it at the beginning of this season in the end. They were very promising. The only thing they need to do this time is to keep consistency. They need to work with better workers to have a season with minimum amount of problems. If we see them having durability issues again it would be a really big disappointment.

I don't think there are teams that can really keep up with Red Bull in the coming season. It has been tense for a while in the past, but that was mainly because Red Bull did not have the car technically in order. And at Ferrari, the problems seem to start after a few races. It was soon clear that Mercedes would not play any significant role in the championship, but I had expected some high placings from Lewis and a win here and there. What Verstappen has achieved is unprecedented when you look at the number of victories. A record he may never even break.

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